Originally Posted by barbiecat
This is interesting to me, my spouse is recently on this "quest", too.
I am confused by how do you define this "manliness" and what yall are looking for. As far as I can tell..

#1. Women are blamed (mom's, female teachers and the fact divorced dads not being around to model behavior.)
Well, if women are raising the children because they've chosen to divorce their husband and use restraining orders and whatever tools to keep the father out of the child's life, then how could you possibly blame the father?

Ditto for those women who have children out of wedlock and don't allow the father to be part of the child's life. You would blame the father for this?

You've read it here that the women who are leaving husbands by and large are not leaving husbands who engage in marital misconduct. Perhaps leaving romantically challenged husbands, but not husbands who beat or cheat.

Since it appears that once that woman has it in her mind that her husband doesn't cut the mustard, and is all but impossible to win back (Yes it can be done, no it's not the typical outcome.) then how could you possibly blame the man who is not allowed to be a part of his child's daily life?

Originally Posted by barbiecat
#2. Perception that women have "taken something" (control?) away.
Well, any time a woman divorces a man or does something to keep the child away from his father, she has taken something away. She's taken something from both the child and the father. Seldom is anyone better after such a choice. Since 2/3rds to 3/4's of all divorces (and even more when you are talking about the first 7 years of marriage) are filed by the women, I think it's pretty clear that they are indeed taking something from both the children and the father.
Originally Posted by barbiecat
Are you meaning integrity and strength?
P.S. disclaimer.. I have a hard time saying all "men" act like this or they are whimps, and all women act like this or they are "itch@s".

Strength comes from an inner understanding of your moral compass, and your aility to define and stand up for that heading.
But the law doesn't look for that in a divorce case. So in many cases, the one with the solid moral compass is the one who is on the outside. While the one with the broken moral compass is the one trusted to raise the children.

Since infidelity doesn't matter in most divorce cases, the women who breaks her vows gets the children, unless she's doing group sex in front of the child present at the local crack house.

Again, is that the betrayed father's fault?
Originally Posted by barbiecat
But maybe this type of thinking is what people think are causing the issue?

Well, it can't be good for those who are impacted by those decisions to end the marriage.

It's not good for most marriages to end, and as long as women are by far the ones choosing to end marriages, the blame for the consequences falls squarely on those shoulders.