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Originally Posted by Tawandabelle
Anytime we just.....do without thinking, whether it's on autopilot or an impulsive wayward following their feelings, or even a teenager trying to "follow the crowd"......we are asleep.

I very much agree with this. If a person can't explain their position using reason and logic, it means they used none when coming to their own position. Asserting a postion on the basis of a sympathetic feeling would be such an example of not thinking. Asleep at the wheel....


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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The best decisions I have ever made have been the result of wise counsel, empathy, and personal intellect. And time I cast aside one of those....not so much.

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Originally Posted by Tawandabelle
The best decisions I have ever made have been the result of wise counsel, empathy, and personal intellect. And time I cast aside one of those....not so much.

Agree. And the absolute WORST conclusions I have ever made were based on feelings, rather than thinking. Feelings have no intellect. When a person can't back up their position, it is a sign they used feelings rather than intellect.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Tawandabelle
I have slept at various times in my life. I have done the autopilot thing, which didn't work. Then I kind of beat my conscience into sleep and made terrible choices. Then I sort of tried the "sir,yes sir!" mode of sleep. One thing was common about all three -- I wasn't thinking. God gave me a brain....and instead of using it I put it on a shelf.

Dr. Seuss' birthday was this week (my teacher-ness is coming out smile ). One of my favorite of his books is Hooray for Diffendoofer Day. In it, a great imaginative creative school is told that they have to take a test, and if they fail it, they will have to go to a school in horrible Flobbertown (a sad, empty gray place where "everyone does everything the same") Mr. Flibber encourages them not to lose heart. She tells them that they'll be able to answer every question because:

"We've taught you that the world is round,
And red and white make pink;
And something else that matters MORE:
We've taught you HOW TO THINK!"

Anytime we just.....do without thinking, whether it's on autopilot or an impulsive wayward following their feelings, or even a teenager trying to "follow the crowd"......we are asleep.

I agree, a teenager "following the crowd" can have serious repercussions. Thankfully, most of the people that show up at Marriage Builders are adults and can think for themselves.

I was brought up in a very strict Christian home. My dad was a pastor and around our house it was usually his way or the highway. I rebelled as a teenager because I chose to follow the crowd. What I didn't realize until much later in life is that although my dad's delivery may have been harsh and stern, his message was the truth.

Around here (at MB), we're gonna hit newbies betrayed spouses hard with the MB message because they ARE desperate and hurting. The intent is to apply CPR, stop the bleeding and then minister to the wound. Someone coming into ER severely wounded can't really think clearly.

When an active wayward shows up, we'll do the same for them. Clearly, their best thinking doesn't serve them well.

EE has been around for awhile. Yes, he speaks from a position of hurt and pain, who wouldn't in his shoes? But it would be a disservice to those who come behind him and read this thread to only hear his message. This is Marriage Builders after all.

I'm beginning to wonder though if this thread should really be under Marriage Builders 101, because it's clearly not about that anymore.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And the absolute WORST conclusions I have ever made were based on feelings, rather than thinking. Feelings have no intellect. When a person can't back up their position, it is a sign they used feelings rather than their mind.
This SO reminds me of the line used by treatment center counselors when dealing with over-dramatic patients

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"Feelings aren't FACTS!"
dramaqueen


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Folks, this thread is being moved to Other Topics.

Please remember to be be respectful in your posts.

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Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
"Feelings aren't FACTS!" dramaqueen

Amen! Feelings are not facts, feelings aren't truth, and feelings have no intellect.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I was very blessed. My dad raised us in a very Bible based home. And he had very high standards. He was a coach and then head of a PE department......and then he had this....girly girl with hormones and feelings and right brain-itis. But I look back, and no matter how "dramatic" I became, he always had this....amazing way of gathering me up into safety and telling me the truth, all at the same time. I don't know if it was all those years as a teacher or just his personality. But he is still a hero to me. And it must have worked with mom too, because in July they will have been madly in love married for 50 years. They rock.

I don't know where that came from. Mom just called this weekend and told me that she wanted me to do an oil painting for their dining room for an anniversary present, so I guess I'm sentimental. My wish would be that everyone who comes here struggling and in pain could have what they have.

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OH MY GOSH, how bizarre that we were both thinking of our fathers! Seriously. My father was a very corrupt, wayward atheist and he used to tell me how stupid Christians were. He claimed they were stupid for believing the Bible and only did so because they weren't bright/creative/intelligent enough to come up with their own philosophies. Gullible "sheep," he called them, "followers." [ironically, the people who claim this are doing nothing more parroting a tired old bumper sticker so they violate their very premise with this argument - they reveal they are sheeple with this argument grin]

It took me several years to figure out that his premise only made sense if the person has more wisdom than the philosophy being dismissed. His logic was very flawed. Dismissing wisdom only on the basis that it was not personally derived reflects a distinct LACK of wisdom. Only a fool would do that. Or a lazy thinker.

How ironic that we were both thinking of our fathers... think


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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That's wonderful about your parents Tawandabelle.

I was blessed too. Although my dad was stern and harsh at times, I could still wrap him around my little finger when I was growing up. It KILLED him to see me cry because I was his "princess". We were extremely close (until I hit my teens, lol). Of the three of us, I was the spoiled one.

I look back at the time I rebelled and it makes me so sad that I hurt and disappointed him like that, knowing that he loved me as much as he did. Thankfully, before he died (at the age of 53), our relationship was mended and he knew I would be okay. If he had lived, I hate to think what he would have done to my DH when DH went off the rails. That would not have been pretty. smile


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I love my parents. Things weren't always great growing up, but I love them dearly and I thank them for many things I've learned.

One of the things I learned was that I didn't have to gas-light, take things out of context, or try to humiliate other people in order to make my point.

I am so so so grateful that I don't need to take anything away from someone else's experience of the truth in order to establish my own. Speaking truth doesn't mean beating other people over the head with it. It doesn't mean calling them names, insulting them, misrepresenting them, or ganging up on them.

For example, on this thread, I've PERSONALLY been accused of speaking nonsense... Of not understanding anything... Of not using reason or intelligence. And of not having intellectual integrity.

I could respond in kind (which I haven't, and which I won't). I could keep trying to explain what I don't think I can say more plainly (I agree people should fight for their marriage; I support MB and think it should be articulated often. HOW this is done is the only point of debate I intended to make).

Or I could bow out of this thread entirely.

I choose the latter.



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Originally Posted by Telly
For example, on this thread, I've PERSONALLY been accused of speaking nonsense...

Yep, I know the feeling!

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For example, on this thread, I've PERSONALLY been accused of speaking nonsense... Of not understanding anything... Of not using reason or intelligence. And of not having intellectual integrity.

Wouldn't you agree that is the case when one makes assertions with absolutely no substantiation? Dismissing the arguments of others as "theoretical nonsense" with no substantiation is a demonstration of not using reason or intelligence. If you don't want folks to point that out, then maybe you shouldn't do such things. Just a suggestion.... When you call the arguments of others "theoretical nonsense" you should be prepared to defend your insulting assertion. Which you have failed to do.

Quote
Or I could bow out of this thread entirely.

Take care. [Linked Image from clicksmilies.com]


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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**Edit**

STOP!

This thread is being locked.

Last edited by MBLovebanker; 03/06/11 11:02 PM.

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