RH,<BR>What your husband is asking you to do compromises the true spirit of a trusting relationship. I agree wholeheartedly with studentswife and Dazed on this. <P>Some of his desired practices amount to infidelity - a totally non-recommended practice in order to marriage build.<P>I have a huge issue with people suggesting ad nauseum that you abandon your comfort field in order to satisfy the selfish and disrespectful desires of your husband. The fact that his requests have increased since his affair must be very uncomfortable for you. I can understand why you feel the added pressure to satisfy him. Does this change your comfort level? NO. Will your comfort level ever change? Not likely. So let's look at what you CAN do to heal your marriage.<P>My H is currently working to overcome the selfish "needs" he has had for some time. He has a sexual addiction. As we dive into things, I realize that there was much more than I was even aware of and it frightens the begeebeez out of me. His fantasies have revolved around many of the same ones as your H. While leary, I think we may get through it. I am somewhat uncomfortable posting about the how's and the why's partly because of the "satisfy him at all costs if you don't want to lose him" mentality. The thought that YOU have to change YOU. Wrong, wrong, wrong. You can change how you respond verbally to his requests, you can change your enthusiasm for vanilla sex even add a few toppings (I liked your metaphor ) but you can't satisfy his 31 flavours at the risk of compromising YOU without serious consequences to you AND your marriage.<P>If you like, you can send me your e-mail address and I can provide a few more details.<P>L_I_S_A_M@yahoo.com<P>Good luck.<BR>Lisa

RavenHair, <P>For what it's worth, just remember "To thine own self be true." Don't compromise your morals or beliefs to make someone else happy - whatever the cost. If he goes elsewhere for the reasons you stated, that doesn't say much for him. Keep in mind, he should be cherishing you. It doesn't matter how vanilla your sex is, that is no reason to stray and it's definitely not your fault! Hey, vanilla sex is sex!<P>I wasn't sure what practices your H was refering to until your last post. You're not a prude. He's desiring things that are outside the realm of a loving marriage relationship. As others have said, participate in activites you both find desirable. <P>By the way, the older I get the more I like vanilla. It's all rolled into the emotional intimacy of the act. That's what guys are looking for. Otherwise, we would all be content with being a do-it-yourselfer. <P>To all: Keep in mind that there are many of us here that can count the number of times we've been intimate with our mate on one hand in the past year. I get depressed everytime I read about this 3-4 times a week stuff. <P>Dazed: Tell your hubby to have a little snip-snip done. That will relieve any anxiety over unwanted pregancies. It's a pretty simple procedure and he can be back in action after a couple of days. <P>SHA

SHA:<P>Snip-snip was discussed -- for both of us. He says that's not an option either. That's all I can say. Pill is, but he doesn't want me going on the pill if that's the only reason why. He refused to continue discussion before I could get any more information.

Dear RH,<P>From the list of things your husband wants, I don't believe he will be "satisfied" even if you did go along with them. S&M sex is not really about sexual fulfillment, it's about power and the psychology of domination. Most people into S&M just keep raising the bar to give them a thrill to compensate for what they lack. What they lack is the ability to be intimate. My definition of intimacy is to open one's soul to another. That take love, courage, trust and empathy. I can't see that happening while handcuffed. Well, maybe I'm a prude, too.<P>If you felt safe with your husband you might be able to learn to enjoy oral and anal sex, or you might not. But that too is missing the point. It's your husband who has to do the learning. <P>You don't see the porn as too big a problem in your marriage, but it is central to his problem. You need a Plan A for the internet porn. He is addicted, and he needs to kick the habit. You can't grow a healthy garden if you plant weeds in one corner. Pull the weeds, and water the flowers,that's my advice.<P>Cuckold does have a point, (somewhere in his message): train your husband to find true intimacy with you. The powerful psychological kick of real intimacy will replace the thrill of porn and S&M.<P>Good luck<p>[This message has been edited by Kenneth (edited February 16, 2000).]

This was one of our major problems. I have always been a lot less agressive than he for different reasons. I didn't even feel confortable discussing it. We read a John Gray book entitled Mars and Venus in the Bederoom. We took turns reading chapters to each other. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT not only to understand how the male and female views sex (it's not just to get the semen out as some may think- you may be surprised how they really feel). Anyway by openly talking about this and adding our views and desires we have had a better sex live than even before the kids came. That's been a long time! Hope it helps!

Hello everyone,<P>I have been reading these posts and some of you already know where I have been and still am in regards to H's problem with porn and his sexual appetites. Some have said here that if Raven shows more enthusiasum and makes things more spontaneous, interesting and fun where sex is concerned he H will eventually lose interest in the porn and focus more on her and the marriage. I have done all these things and H gets more involved with the porn and spending time alone. It seems no matter what or how I do anything concerning sex, it isn't enough and he refuses to discuss it or allow me to understand how WE can create intimacy with each other without him constantly running to the porn sites and watching videos. <P>As a mattter of fact it has become so bad that he took off from work yesterday while I was taking my parents out of town to see a doctor and rented porn videos and spent the day at home looking up porn sites and enjoining his movies. And all this time I have put much energy into our sex life, as a matter of fact the night before, Valentine's Day I thought we had a great time. And he said we would start over at making this marriage what it should be. However, the very next day he takes off from work, lies to me about that and spends the entire day involved in fanatsizing to porn. Can anyone please understand why I am so confused here.<BR>HE has sex with another woman while I had to be away and since has not given up his hobby with porn and keeps getting more and more involved with it and he has certain tastes that I know he wants to fullfill and like RavenHair I fear he will get so into this to the point he will seek his pleasure for it elsewhere. Believe me I have met him at the door with sexy outfits and I have a very creative imagination, but none of this stops his behavior and he is getting to the point where it is everytime I am gone somewhere or when home he sneaks it the best way he can, before we have sex and after. Makes me think that I can not satisfy this man no matter what I do. Is it possible that some men become addicted to masterbation and get a much more fullfilled need this way instead of being with their partner? I do feel my H is addicted to the porn and it is getting worse, not better. He refuses to get help and denies he is addicted. <P>Boy, did I ramble on. Sorry, but I do feel what you, Ravenhair are going through with this and I have been trying to understand and help him, but my H is not willing to stop even for a little while so I can gain some sense of security in this marriage, and he knows how I feel about some of the things he would like to do sexually and yes, I did give it a try, but it was just too painful and what is kind of scary is that the few times we have had sex he gets rough and this is or has not been like him in the past. It's as if he has no regard for my feelings and is acting out what he sees in these videos. He is becoming someone I don't know anymore.

Dear Devastated,<P>You're right, porn is an addiction. There is no point trying to compete with it. If you're husband was addicted to heroin, could you "compete" by cooking him his favourite dinner? Nope. Get him off the drug, then work on the relationship.

Kenneth,<P>Do you know how I can do that? I am not being sarcastic, I am very serious. How do I or can I get rid of this addiction? He says he will stop and like an alcoholic, keeps going back to it. Even after he sees the pain and distress it puts me through. He cannot stop, but what is most hurtful is that he doesn't want to. So how do I help him see it differently? For seven years I have been there, loving him and being patient, then I got to point where I said I can't take this anymore and wanted out of the marriage. He got scared and said he would stop, but didn't. I said, let me help you to stop and we will work on this together. He says, OKay and then continues to lie and sneak the porn anyway! Can you see how this make me feel like a fool and helpless at the same time. <P>Your right, we can't even begin to work on a relationship until we no longer have this obstacle in our way. But I am truly at a loss as to what it will take. He will not go to counciling, talk about a rock and a hard place, I'm there.

RH<P>Please forgive me. I did not mean in any way to take over your post. I wanted to reply to you and the others on this because of what I am have been and am currently going through with this and I can definately identify with what you are feeling. I hope if your H is addicted or getting to be addicted that he will be willing to go for counceling. And I do know from experience that even if you were to do everything he wants sexually it does not mean he will stop with the porn and continued interest in wanting do try out different forms of sex. Like I said, I tried to do what he wanted and couldn't enjoy it and didn't care to do it again. I'm into pleasure not pain. So don't compromise yourself and put yourself through anything that is uncomfortable for you or painful, because it will only build resentment and that isn't going to help.

Does he use the internet? Put a password on the net browser, use a net nanny. Does he have a friend you both trust you can talk to about this? Do you attend church? Maybe the pastor can help. Go to is video shop and tell them what the problem is and ask them not to rent porn videos to him. Does he have any tapes or magazines at home? Get him to throw them out and be with him when he does it. It's like treating an alcoholic, he can't be around his "poison" at all. Keep trying, enlist his support and enthusiasm. expect some backsliding. Be patient, stay the course. Eventually when the habit is broken, he won't need it anymore.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Kenneth (edited February 16, 2000).]

Kenneth,<P>How do you put a password on a browser, I am partially computer literate. No, I do not have a net nanny and yes, we have been going to church together, so far. And as far as going to the video store where he frequents, they would laugh at me. These people promote it, they don't see what harm it does and would tell him I was there. Bet you can guess what that would cause? And unfortunately there is no one that we both know whom we can trust. He has NO male friends. I have lots of friends and have tried to get him involved with the couples I know but he does not have an interest to do this. He visits or more or less puts up with them but does not care to develope a friendship with any of the husbands of the wives I am friends with. Come to think of it as long as I have been married to the man he has not had one friend who he contacts or does any activity with. This is not healthy. He self absorbs and hides from the world. And when he goes anywhere he always wants just me there. And I have yet to get his enthusiasum on kicking this habit which is taking over our marriage.<BR>So if I begin to act like a prison warden will this really help? Or should I just let him have all this without me and hope and pray he comes to his senses of what is right and what he should be doing as a husband and father? Even if you took all the alcohol out of the house and told the bar keeps everywhere not to serve them, they would still find a way to drink. Forcing it won't stop it. My H has to realize on his own and stop it. I wish I could do it for him but unfortunately, all the crying, pleading, begging and demanding has not and does not work. I have been caring, kind, loving, understanding and that hasn't worked either.<BR>So now what. I pray for a miracle before he gets me to the point where I simply don't have any more love left to give. And don't care what he does. If and when I get to that point, I'm afraid there will be no turning back. I have warned him time and again. But he keeps doing it and once you lose so much of what you felt or feel there is no chance of getting it back. I have gone through this before long ago and I am tired of feeling like I come second. I put him first with me and I at least expect the same. I don't believe that is asking too much. If it is, then it is goodbye. <P>Didn't mean to chew your ear off. And I apprecitate your questions and suggestions.<BR>I wish it were that easy. It may sound as if I am waffeling back and forth from wanting him to not wanting him. But, I want him and this marriage and always have. I just know that I am human and can take so much before I have to face reality and realize where I stand with him in his life. Do you know what I mean? I'm fighting here and holding on with a white knuckle grip, but I am only so strong.

Raven,<P>Thank you for being specific about what your husband wants you to you. I certainly had the wrong idea of what it was that he was asking of you. Since you have specified the activities, I need to revise my advice. I would like to address each of these in turn.<P>1. Handcuffing and gagging me<BR>This is not something I suggest you allow. Your husband has cheated, and he has not redeveloped the trust, and it would be very difficult for you to enjoy this anyway.<P>2. "Light" S/M<BR>Sado masochism always involves pain for one person. I cannot see why pain should ever be involved in such a beautiful act as sex. <P>3. Videotaping<BR>There is probably nothing wrong with this in itself, but if you both agree to erase the tape as soon as it is made it is probably harmless, but if you are willing to make love with him so often, why does he need a videotape?<P>4. Inviting someone to watch us<BR>There is no need for this, and it could harm your marriage. <P>5. Him watching me with another woman <BR>(preferably the OW)<BR>-I say this is a definite no no.<P>6. Him watching me with another man <BR>(preferably my old college boyfriend)<BR>This is adultery and is another definite no no. <P>7. Anal sex<BR>There is probably nothing inherently wrong with this, but it would require a lot of marital trust, is a matter of personal choice, and does involve a risk of bacterial infection for both of you. <P>Please forgive me for misinterpreting your post, I had previously thought that you were merely refusing to engage in something else. Some of these, in my opinion, are definitely out of the question and others are things that I believe that you have every right to refuse. I guess I just thought you were refusing to wear lingerie and engage in oral sex. That is what I get for assuming, I sincerely apologize. <P>It appears that your husband's sexual tastes have probably been affected by pornography. He has seen these things depicted, and is obsessing with them. I really think that he has a sexual addiction. You have stated that he is a Christian. I really think that some kind of intervention would be appropriate. I suggest that you speak to your minister about this, he has probably heard of this sort of thing before. <P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You.<BR>John

Devastated,<P>You would of course have to get his co-operation for most of the suggestions. The video shop idea was a bit naive. If uses a computer to download porn, then he knows how to get a net-nanny program.<P>His complete lack of friends is alarming. He really needs therapy, but I don't imagine that would be easy to convince him to go. he does seem totaly dependant upon you. That may be the only leverage you have to get him to take action. Tell him why you are unhappy, ask him what he could do about it. If he won't change, maybe you should consider moving out for a while. See if that wakes him up.

Raven,<P>I have been following this thread and I guess I have a few comments.<P>First, you are right you should not compromise your beliefs.<P>Second, since these demands have increased since the affair, I would guess they may have to do with depression and guilt. I know this sounds weird, but if he is depressed he may be looking for something to "jump start him" emotionally. Note I said emotionally, the activities you have mentioned have nothing to do with sexual desire per se. <P>I could be he is trying to feel something again: your love as demonstrated by doing these acts, your shame if you do these acts for him, his embarressment if he allows another man with you, and perhaps his guilt.<P>You stated that to some extent a few if not all of these have been areas of interest to him. Again, I will go back to emotions or the lack of them, could be from something that happened to him earlier in life, could be a level of depression that has existed for a long time, or it could be something else, but it is not lack of sex that is driving this. <P>Whatever this is about, <B>this is not about sex or sexual satisfaction</B>. It has to do with his emotions and feelings. Obviously counseling would really help if you can get him to go there. <P>I have no idea if I am right in your situation, but maybe my thoughts will trigger some ideas from your position of knowing him much better than I.<P>Good Luck and God Bless,<P>JL

I didn't know you were talking about that either. WOW he does have a problem!!<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>

Thanks for all of your responses...<P>Actually, my husband and I, both as a couple, and individually, have been in counselling for almost a year now (simultaneously with my husband's EMR, BTW). <P>Over the past year, my husband's interest in these various sexual activities, or at least his talking about them, has continued to increase...<P>Over the past year, my husband has gotten involved in a very emotional, and very sexual affair, and lied to me about it...<P>During that time, our own relationship has (surprise, surprise!), despite counselling, with two different counselors, continued to get worse and worse...<P>I guess you could say that I'm really beginning to doubt the effectiveness of counselling for helping to solve the problems in our marriage.

Thank you, theStudent....
I am also in similar situation as Ravenhair....my WH demanded sexual experiences against my personal belief and/or uncomfortabilities....I was bullied, name-called, etc....to perform to his sexual demands....no matter how demeaned it made me feel, or dirty, to that matter....
I was very upfront and honest before getting married also, about my good, bad and the uglies of me....why hide the truth, since he will know my true colors anyways?
After 18 years of marriage, I found out of his affairs....and also contracted a std by him...
Now, he and the marriage counselor demands that i give my WH sex...so, i still feel coerced, bullied....the marriage counselor really enabled WH's actions and mindset.




------------------------------------------------------------
D-Day: 07-18-2010
WH-45
BW- 39
Married-18 years
Separated- 02-18-2011 (second time since August 2010)

Kinda hard to do, when H demands, bullies, intimidates to get what he wants, how he wants....and then later insist he really wanted "honest and true" intimacy all along....

Another year 2000 thread.
What's up?

Looks like a newbie is reading old threads and then commenting on them.