Thanks, ya'll. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I really am thankful for this site and the patience and wisdom of the "old timers". <p>Unfortunately, there are always those who are only looking for an easy answer, and won't accept anything else. Makes you wonder how much they really want their marriages to work if they aren't willing to make any sacrifices. <p>anyway.....thanks!<p>at peace (lori)

And, I'd add, as an oldtimer who hopefully is MB focused a lot of the time, that when thread starters don't reply to posters, I know for me, I have a whole lot less interest in posting to them additional times.<p>Posting takes time, thought, and sometimes unearthing rather wrenching memories. To be disregarded, ignored when you've done that is a process that seems pretty futile.<p>I understand most people are here because of pain, and board etiquette isn't everyone's priorty. I assume I was not an ideal poster at many points in my "bad times" (or now... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ), and even if I am ignored, I may try again. The more somebody reminds me of me in my search for what-the-heck-to-do, the more I try.<p>Sometimes I'll continue to post to someone, or on a topic because of the lurkers. <p>Sometimes, with all the similar names, I'll lose track of who it was I had been posting to.<p>Recently, I broke up a negative pity party/vent thread and was told to be more gentle with newcomers... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Well, perhaps I wasn't gentle that day, but I was positively re-directing, and I think that at times is more valuable.

You feel awful, venting is fine, but then what? Are you better? Does it effect you positively? I know for me it just winds me up and makes me dwell on things that are wrong.<p>I was given so much through MB, a lot by posters that are long gone, but there have been special people here the whole 3 1/2 years I've been here.

I see the threads as dialogue. If someone disagrees with me, I'd like to know that, because either I'll get more detailed, or spare both of us my reply.<p>And, even us oldtimers have bad days with off-kilter advice. For many of us, if our lives were perfect, we probably wouldn't ever have found MB.

*sigh*<p>I remember new_beginning (who was posting as Nyneve, then) writing a similar post when I first came on.<p>I remember veterans posting encouraging things to me... and the next day I would come back asking almost exactly the same question... I must have been so frustrating.<p>I remember LBing and coming here sobbing and boohooing... other 'newbies' comforted me and rallyed me on... but some older veterans (WhoDat) kicked me in the butt. (THANKS to both).<p>It's a process. It's messy. We're human. And it takes ALL of us. Some of us will be <wondering> at the miracle of a restored marriage and others will be <reveling> at our newfound strength as a single person.<p>It's all about growth... sometimes it's pretty... sometimes it's not..<p>But isn't it phenomenal!<p>Cali

<<<I've found myself multiple times wanting to say to posters - why don't you stop arguing and start listening to those who have been there and done that - do you want to be married or do you want to be right?>>><p>yes, I want to be married -- but not if I have to sell my soul to do it.<p>I could have the best marriage in the world right now if I would just stay out of my husband's personal life and stop wanting to know about his past actions with the females he works with. If I could just leave that door shut, the way he wants it, and take his word that "he'll never do it again," things would be just fine.<p>I'm assuming I am one who is the subject of this thread. It is true that I am very, very angry and in a lot of pain, and I've been in that place for over two years. This is because I have a spouse who, to this day, flat-out refuses to open the door on his past life with his women friends at work, no matter how much damage this secrecy has done to our once very, very good marriage.<p>Sometimes I do disagree with how the MB principles are applied -- but not with the principles themselves. Don't you occasionally need a different point of view, even if it's not *exactly* the same as most of the posters here?<p>If nothing else, it will make people think. And that should never be a bad thing.<p>Psycho_B***h, the aptly named

I guess I'm a middle-timer, and since I'm divorced, I'm not sure my "ranking" here [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>I appreciate the veterans, and ALL the members here so much. I think many have valuable advice, viewpoints, and compassion to share. I know the old-timers, and middle-timers, get a little burned out from time to time, or frustrated at the younguns, but we NEED the wise and experienced ones posting anyway... lots and lots... please take a break when you need it and come back and help us [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] !<p>The only type of advice I try to offer is personal growth, patience in Plan A, and MB Basics. I don't have experience in recovery, and I made a LOT of mistakes along the way in my Plan A and PLan B. Some may think that my Plan A and B failed - I think it worked - because the plans are designed to give the BS strength, and the feeling that 100% effort and commitment was given to the marriage. <p>I agree with what many have posted on this thread. I understand the immense pain, confusion, and stubbornness by newbies. I also think anyone willing to take their time and emotional energy to give advice to others are angels. Newbies should strive to understand what they don't understand... asking questions... giving it time and patience... and reading a lot. And yes, we all do appreciate differing opinions and viewpoints. <p>Old-timers should remember that offering 2 cents is just that - an offer. It's up to the person asking if they want to take it or not. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] That's hard for me sometimes too... when you can see the finish line from a bird's eye view, it's painful and frustrating to watch someone taking a wrong turn, or walking backwards! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'd also like to encourage newbies to reach out to other newbies as much as possible. Sometimes just a "I know how you feel" is all someone needs to make it through another 5 minutes of this "stuff" we're going through. The MB concepts are not that difficult to understand, so just about anyone can remind another of the principles.... whether they feel that they have mastered them or not.<p>Well, that's my 2 cents.... THANKS for the thread Bramblerose!!!! You are priceless!!!<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Well, I would just like to say to the Old Timers, regardless if you think you are being heard or argued with, PLEASE PLEASE continue to post and help the newer members.<p>As I recall, I was one very stubborn Newbie myself at one time.<p>Love,
Jo

Thanks for this message - as a brand newbie (4/29), I have done nothing but read read and read. Sometimes I post and don't hear from anyone, then a few days goes by and I hear from one of you. I feel like "whew" someone knows what I'm going through. I don't consider myself a whiner or complainer. Most of my few posts are posted because of my fear. The fear of losing the one I love the most. This whole "fog" thing is difficult, especially when just a month ago everything seemed "okay". That's the hardest part of it all.<p>When you are separated, it's difficult for me to grasp some of the plan A ideas because I hardly see or talk to my husband now - so I just need encouragement. <p>I don't know about other newbies, but I LOVE reading some success stories and hearing from you veterans. I trust the advice and the encouragement from everyone and I do know in my heart that no matter what happens, I will be okay.<p>Thanks for letting me share,
Llama

BR,<p>Just wanted to say that I don't really see it the same way. What I see are a lot of wonderful, dedicated people who have a great deal of experience and knowledge to share, sharing it with others. I remember my first distraught post, Orchid was the first to answer -- thanks Orchid -- what a state of mind to be in. <p>If people don't seem to totally get the concepts at first it is because of all the emotion and confusion they feel. I was luck I could remember my name during the first few weeks, let alone remember every concept. I know that I have grown tremendously since then and have learned all the concepts by heart. As a matter of fact, when I post to someone, the first advice I give them is to really read the concepts. Some of them are kind of radical -- completely different from what one feels like doing. Don't get me wrong, they are brilliant concepts. They really worked. My H and I are in recovery (within a fairly short amount of time) due to these concepts. I have shared them with him and he totally buys it, so do I. My H has also said if I had done what I felt like doing at the time -- screaming, ranting, raving, making ultimatums, etc. -- we would no longer be married. <p>All that being said -- Thank you all of the veterans whose advice I have learned from; who, through their words of wisdom, have prevented my misstep; to whom I owe my renewed, wonderful M. Please have patience with us newbies -- we are truly newbies and are just learning. As with most adult learners, we need plenty of reinforcement before a concept becomes embedded in our minds. Please keep posting and helping us.<p>Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.<p>FHO

I'd like to clarify a bit more about what *I* am seeing... and it concerns me... and was the topic that Cali mentioned:<p>I have been at Marriage Builders for nearly three years. In that three years OF COURSE I have whined, b1tched, complained, cried and basically made a fool of myself too... as well as offered support, hope, love and hugs and kisses and junk [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ... okay, so...<p>THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM.<p>My problem has been, and continues to be, when a poster comes on, says how much they are hurting, how they love their WS, how they want to find a way to make the marriage work, and someone says one of the following things:<p>Dump the bum

Or when someone comes on (old or new member) and says:<p>They don't believe in MB or the concepts, so will do a "modified" Plan A, or a "modified" Plan B, or a Plan C, which does not exist.<p>This is NOT about "My way (Harley's way) or the Highway". Of course everyone has freedom to choose how they will work on their marriage - but, remember this:<p>YOU ARE AT MARRIAGE BUILDERS<p>We Marriage Build using the concepts around here. Isn't that what this place is all about?<p>So, with that in mind, I stay here because I know these concepts almost inside out, care about people, and believe in the stuff. I am no longer in an unfaithful marriage, nor am I a WS or BS -- that was so long ago, in a previous marriage, a prior life.<p>So, maybe BR and I aren't coming from the same exact place, and maybe we are. She's been told, as I have, to shut up. I once posted a welcome letter and some comments about a newbies post, and was told by another member to quit "spewing" MBism's. <p> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>That's what *I* mean.

Ever wonder why a mirror switches left and right, but not top and bottom?<p>"Wait a sec, WAT, WAT's that got to do with Rosie's post?"<p>Nothing, just something I was wondering about.<p>Yep, a post's topic can easily be interpreted as something totally different than intended.<p>"OK, get to your point."<p>Oh, sorry. What did I want to say?<p>Dern.<p>Oh yea! Thanks all, for saving my life. Now, I continue to "play" here to give something back. I will never be able to repay my debt.<p>The only point I want to make is that there is nothing "magic" about MB principles. They're simply a way to communicate the often counter-intuitive logic of life with alien abductees. "Counter-intuitive" because in the high emotions of affairs, we tend to react with survival instincts - which often produce counter-attack, knee-jerk reactions. Of course we may not understand that that's EXACTLY the wrong thing to do. I and many others here were doin' a passable Plan A before we knew what Plan A was. How? Because it makes sense once you get past the initial shock. We were fortunate enough to have some calming ability.<p>Now I've run out of things to say.

WAT... you're funny!<p>I miss your posts. Post more!<p>Hugs,
Cali

Yeah ... what Cali said!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>Yeah ... what Cali said!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>That goes for me three, I love to join wise women.<p>Dave, you run out of things to say, hard to believe.<p>Have any funny stories lately. <p>Sorry BR & others off topic.<p>I have been a whinner (okay I was the champion whinner, venter, etc, many of the OT's here held my hand, picked me back up & made me carry on another day & another day till it was finally over)<p> But you know what I grew & when the end came it wasnt' the end of the world. I was stronger & I could handle all the stuff that got dumped on me.<p> Thanks guys. Think Dave & Sheryl thought it was their duty to make sure I was still there every day last May.<p>I don't post much to anyone any more, because I am not sure what I have to offer, sometimes just telling someone they are being thought of is enough for them. At least a lot of days it was what I needed last yr, I mean what could anyone tell me to do, I was between the rock & the hard place & the place was getting smaller but knowing there were caring people out there made my days brighter. <p>Again thanks, I am not sure what kind of shape the boys or I would be in if I had not had this place. So that is why I keep coming back here to maybe help the one person who really at that point in time doesn't have a choice & just needs to know there is someone out here who cares.<p>Yall know I'm really am that Steel Magnolia now but I really don't want to change the name.

Wow, you guys have been busy while I've been working! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sheryl, you got it right - I'm absolutely not upset with people just going through the growing pains. Good lord - it took me a whole YEAR just to learn the lessons, and then another 6 months of consistent application before there was real progress in my marriage!<p>This place was such a wonderful support to me - and I only really started posting about the time I was initiating my divorce for a second time.<p>My problem is, as Zorweb has also put described, is with posters who just flat out aren't interested in what MB has to offer. I have to wonder why those people are here.<p>I'm just finding myself more and more reading posts, and having some good insight to offer, and then just realizing that there is no point in making the effort - that my POV will only offend, simply because the poster really isn't wanting anything but justification for what they are feeling and doing.<p>Pyscho, no this post wasn't directed at you - BUT - now that you are here, you make my point.<p>No one believes you should sell your soul. I found my own FREEDOM by practicing these principles in combination with my 12 step program. So what's wrong with keeping an open mind, and trying to understand what many of us might have to tell you? 3 years ago my H's affair was starting. He moved out at my request, I discovered I was pregnant, and I had to initiate divorce 2 times during my saga. It was a nightmare. But today, I am happy, joyous and free. NOT because my H saw the light and came home, but because I made so many changes in my self that just made a night and day difference in how I approached my life. When I had learned THOSE lessons, THEN my H wanted to be around me - gee imagine that. That's when he wanted to do what it would take to earn my love and trust. You see, it wasn't about educating him on what an a$$ he was....it was about being someone that he WANTED in his life.<p>When I stopped being an angry victim of my H's selfishness - MY life turned around. I didn't sell my soul - I FOUND MY SOUL! <p>I am a totally different person than I was 3 years ago when my H's affair got started. The ONLY thing that has really changed has been me.<p>Now, my answers might not work for you. That's ok.<p>But my point is, that MB worked for me. I applied them successfully in my life, and now not only am I a better, happier person, but I have a better marriage than I have ever had. <p>So if you disagree with what I, or my peers here have to tell you, then I have to ask, why are you here? I'm not suggesting that you CAN'T disagree. I just find it odd that people (not you specificially) come here and then argue with us.
If you want to have what we have, then MAYBE doing what we did is how you get there.<p>It's as Sheryl said, its not the growth process or the disagreement, its the flat out rejection of the very principles this site espouses, and the complete lack of respect given to those who have succeeded (and I don't mean marital success, I mean real survival, I think of people like WAT, Faith1 and others who are also success stories).<p>You see, the book is called "Surving an Affair". Its not called "How to get your Spouse to stop cheating and start loving you". There's alot of successful survivors on this board who didn't have marital recovery. <p>I assume every poster here wants to be a success. I am just saddened that there are many who are here, who can hear the message, but just aren't listening - and in fact are out right disrespectfully rejecting it.

I do believe in MB concepts. And, I doubt this thread is directed at me, but I'm wondering....<p>BR, Sheryl, and I are all different examples of people whose situations didn't move from discovery to recovery in a reasonable amount of time (say a couple months). We lived through the A's being ongoing. We all were in the D process. Recovery, personal and/or marital came many months, even years later.<p>For me, Plan A was good, I was a big whiner and really angry some of the time. I had a problem with lovebusters, I couldn't seem to get a grip on how not to. It wasn't that I wanted to modify Plan A...I couldn't get it...but as I kept reading on MB & other resources, compatible in many ways to MB--The five love languages, love life for every married couple, divorce busting, Conways' MLC trilogy and even HOW TO GET YOUR LOVER BACK (BR's post reminded me of that one) it helped me learn exactly how to PLan A and get rid of those LBs.<p>My counselor was also great, not an MB approved, but Christian and a former WS himself married to the same wife--a survivor. And, I share some of his directions here. For instance, Plan B with kids and no relatives in town & friends all worn out...how do those kids' issues get communicated? C's answer was acting "as if" divorced with boundaries. Is that wrong to share? I believe K did something similar with his Plan B & kids.<p>What if it is time for Plan B & it is simply not doable with kids' games, concerts, practices for no contact? I think that affects a lot of us, so I've shared how I managed that step of detaching.<p>Does that make me a non-marriagebuilder?<p>There are other things I did absolutely wrong...and I share the wrongness & the extra misery created as well.<p>I suppose there is a difference between advice & sharing our stories. But when someone is floundering with Plan A or doormatting with Plan A it isn't necessarily a modification they need, it's clarification.<p>And, what a fine line it is between doormat and no lovebusters sometimes.<p>I think most of us know what it is like to wail, "But I just want my marriage back!" and to be not only nonproactive, but reactive and/or yearning to be in a coma.<p>Sheryl , maybe I missed your point, but sometimes a modification of the Plans isn't a change from what MB says, but is a change in what the poster has perceived Plan A or B to be. <p>Of course, sometimes the modification is just plain wrong-headed, and the posters who have been advising become frustrated. I know my learning curve was rather flat, or even dipped, at times. <p>Sometimes I think it comes back to that there are so many more posters here now, meaning the small percentage of folk who are MB clueless who've always been here have greater numbers. And, if they choose to post advice and someone takes that advice, all that can be done at present is more posters disagreeing with the bad advice, right? Swaying by publice MB opinion?<p>I think it was a good step to put all those links at the top of the forum home page, but still, posters have to read them for the links to help.<p>[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]<p>[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</p>

I really do value the old timer's post ... I was so glad when WAT, NSR, sing and a few others suddenly came out of retirement [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Sometime I do feel like a broken record, repeating myself, however how many times we had been told and we missed the mark and not until way later we understood it. Different posters have different needs & situations and response differently to certain style. The only thing we could do is put it out our 2¢ and hope the Lord will open up their mind & eyes. There are many that only lurks ... and benefit more than the original poster !!!!. The oldtimer had traveled this road, we need your wisdom from your journey !. Mine just barely began. -RH-

Hi, <p>I want to thank everyone who has helped and supported me even in times of my hard headedness.. and learning it the hard way... attitude... even my arguements and sensitivies... to any form of criticism... I know I am very sensitive.. but also have been criticized so badly my whole life... I find it very hard to deal with.... my mom and my H now and at times during our M.<p>I know I have argued about some comments and been hurt and upset that I was told how stupid I was.... I know I have vented beyond belief... just to keep myself from going bonkers! or nuts! and it has helped... I thank all of you for putting up with my vents and frustrations... I am dealing with way more than an A...<p>but drug and alcohol and possibily sex addiciting along with chronic lying.... this has been really hard to deal with in the last 7+ months... when before that I thought my h was truthful... someone I could trust and honest and very loving... etc.. but just had a "drinking" problem..... <p>I had been to alanon and quit because it actually started to drive me away from my h.... as I refused to deal with his lb's or alcoholic lb's=== and also... as I grew so strong and actually detached with ANGER...<p>My concepts of plan a have worked at times... but I haven't done all that well.. and I know that I have made myself into a doormat in my plan a... while I know I am being lied to... I know my h is not changing any of his problems... and I am going along with the flow and doing what he wants...<p>for me I can't go along with all the mb concepts... I guess... because of the alcoholic mix... but I want to go with what I can.... steve and the harleys''' advise... that alcoholism... addiction be dealt with first... <p>but I try to deal with him in mb ways... enlightened ways... when I have plan a'd and even drawn some boundaries recently.... I have done way better... I am learning thanks to people here and in my programs... that I can detach with love... I do not have to be so angry all the time at my H for ruining my life... or messing up things... or treating me in mean or unkind ways...or simply ways I do not want.<p>It is hard to learn from others advise... it we could all just follow good advise and have our lives turn out great.. wouldn't that be wonderful? I know for me... I am just too stubborn or perhaps too deeply conditioned and immersed in my own stuff and my own bad behaviors... etc... that got me here.<p>Thanks to all of you for putting up with me... I know at times I act like a spoiled brat.... boy! I hate to say that! I am trying so hard to be agrown up adult and not worry about my H anymore.... and thanks to all of you that have persisted and become my friends and support system.<p>BR, I again apologize to you for my anger at you over harshness to me....<p>I needed it... it was a wake up.... and I actually turned around at some of the harsh words that were sd to me... but they hurt. <p>I hope everyone knows I appreciate their help.... I hope as a "friend" I can help others and perhaps others can grow from my experience... <p>I know I am by no means any type of expert... and I am not to the point of feeling that I give advise... I try to give support and offer my experience strength and hope to others who are out there that I relate to.<p>thanks for being here and thanks for this thread... <p>To those of you who feel unappreciated , I think you are appreciated more than you know.... you are very giving and kind to give with expereince... it is part of your recovery...<p>but understand... some people... at times... are so confused and crazed... even if it seems you didn't help... and even if they argued with you... you still helped... you may not get all the thank you 's you deserve.. but your helping is helpful.... !<p>I know at many times... I have not posted back to those who have helped me... or etc... but I have been SOOOO depressed or sOOOO overwhelmed... or Emotional... it was all I could do to get my feelings out here.... I have read... and I don't always remember who sd what where... but the beauty is we are helping each other! although the thanks aren't always acknowledged...<p>IT reminds me of something I was taught as a brownie scout... DO a good deed without being found out... each day! Now that is a good thing to remember when we give of ourselves here on this board... it is for the greatest good of others to give as much as we can in this life!<p>Hugs to all of you, Honey

<<<So if you disagree with what I, or my peers here have to tell you, then I have to ask, why are you here? I'm not suggesting that you CAN'T disagree. I just find it odd that people (not you specificially) come here and then argue with us.
If you want to have what we have, then MAYBE doing what we did is how you get there.>>><p>I am here because I don't know what to do. NOTHING is helping.<p>He insists to this day that it's only cheating if it's sexual. Since I can't prove that, he did NOT cheat.<p>I have seen plenty with my own eyes. I've seen the flirting. I know they've gone off alone together in cars. I've seen their (puke) e-mail. And my gut screams every day that there is more. <p>But he defends and excuses and justifies every last bit of it, right down to the bitter end. According to him, he had NO IDEA any of this was even happening.<p>He wants me to believe he's so stupid that he doesn't know what flirting is. He doesn't know what dating is. He doesn't know what an inappropriate conversation is. Oh, and all his female friends are equally stupid. They didn't know any of this was going on, either! <p>Oh, but there was one thing that he and all of them sure as hell DID know: THEY SURE KNEW BETTER THAN TO LET ME KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. THEY SURE KNEW THEY HAD TO LIE TO MY FACE ABOUT ALL OF IT, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.<p>So now, I am treated all day long like I am STUPID. Or crazy. Or hallucinating. Or all of the above.<p>I did "Plan A" for years. Put him first in *everything.* Have always tried to be the best person I could be. And it worked! He loved it. He loved me. But to this day he sees no reason why he couldn't spend a little quality time alone with his female co-workers too, and get more involved in their personal lives than he was in mine -- something I didn't realize at the time.<p>Plan B? I don't think he would even notice. As long as I stay out of his personal life and ask him no questions about it, everything is great. But if I want answers and if I want to be treated like I'M NOT STUPID -- forget it.<p>My head is exploding right now from intense anger and from complete, utter, total frustration. If any of you have a suggestion, I'm listening.
Psycho_B***h

I argue often. I am often referred to as being in the early stages of recovery by other posters so I will accept that label (although it feels like forever).<p>I will say that one thing that is frustrating as a thread starter are that often posters don't read all the information and following posts. For instance, someone will repeatedly tell me to counsel with the Harleys when I've stated that I am, what was said, status, etc. <p>Other times people will ignore the fact that I am looking for a reason to stay and will flat out tell me to divorce my husband, that he doesn't love me and I am not taking care of my children by staying with this evil man. On the same thread someone will ignore the very serious issues altogether and tell me to Plan A.<p>In addition, I think people make assumptions about one's situation instead of asking appropriate questions. Assumptions put others on the defensive while questions must be thoughtfully answered.<p>I've had some wonderful support here and I thank everyone for that. I've also been surprised when I've had venting partners jump wholeheartedly on my venting band wagon (or more accurately run off with it). I have more to say on this but must go.<p>Thank you everyone for your suggestions and comments in my case.

I would just like to say how much I appreciate the "oldtimers" posting on my thread. When someone I recognize comes back to my thread several times and offers consistently calming advice, helping me to deal with my anger, frustration and sadness, then I am able to listen and remember the commitment I gave to my husband almost 14 years ago, instead of just blowing up and either running or pointing to the door. <p>There is a lot to read on this site, and it takes awhile to get to grips with it, but I am someone who is trying to implement these principles into my married life. Since we are only in the beginning stages of recovery (I think) - we have a long way to go before we get to the point where we have Radical Honesty, Policy of Joint Agreement, 15 hours a week Undivided Attention, actively trying to fulfill each other's top 5 emotional needs, etc. - for those of us trying to get to square one and haven't even managed to separate the WS from the OP, all this looks like Dreamland - the point is, it gives us something to aim for - and to get there, people like me are still in the babysteps stage - which mostly means getting rid of your own LoveBusters and trying to figure out how to meet your WS emotional needs.<p>Before I found MB, I did quite a few of the non-recommended things - like hitting your spouse in anger (once) - blowing up and confronting them with the evidence - calling names in anger. Well, I don't like myself for it, but I'm only human, and I think my reactions were pretty normal, even though they weren't constructive. It's finding this site that has helped me to ACT in a more positive way, even though I have continued to have a whole ball game of emotions wrestling around inside of me.<p>My H is now in counselling, and I have no idea whether or not he is still conducting his EA with OW . I suspect he is. But I think I am doing very well at trying to grow as a person in the face of his faltering fidelity, and I hope that his counselling will help him confront why he has done this to us. I am trying to give him time to face his own behaviour, since he has specifically chosen a Christian counselling service and has made a commitment to go - I don't think a professional Christian counsellor will let him "off the hook" on the fidelity issue, no matter how miserable a wife he might paint me as. (My H thinks it's acceptable to have strong EA's and that I should accept that - he says no-one can meet ALL of the other person's needs - which looks to me like a reason for justifying his EA with a 22-yr old French woman with long flowing blonde hair, high boots and mini-skirts! -
Do I have a right to be upset about it? - I think so - I don't think there's any place for a "friendship" outside of marriage where she refers to him as "My sexy Leo" and he calls her "his Leonora" - and they address their e-mails to each other as "my beloved" ) Umm - need I say more?<p>The point is - its the oldtimers advice here which has helped me stay married so far. AND to try to shift my focus away from my H's erratic emotional life and on to what I need to do for me. I hope I am happily married to my H 5 years from now - that's what I would ideally like - but I know that whatever happens, I have to take care of myself too, and will be a better person for it - I hope my H wakes up enough to see that. On the plus side, he is a lot more loving to me lately - genuine affection - but I will only feel better when this OW problem is "solved" - when we have open trust, and I am sure there is no other woman in his life - winding him up into a state of excitement, giving him the strokes he should be allowing me to give him.<p>I AM sometimes confused in one respect - and have found reading this thread helpful to get more to grips with OT stories - first, is this a Marriage BUILDER's site, or is this a PERSONAL GROWTH site in the face of adversity - or both, do the two go hand-in-hand. I see that some of the OldTimers (not all) are no longer married - that worries me. When you are trying your damndest to save your marriage and trying to put MB principles into place and a lot of the people advising you are no longer married, it does make you wonder. I have to voice this - I wouldn't be honest if I didn't. I tend to take the view that those who are no longer married learned by their mistakes and also learned to be stronger people, perhaps learning they could no longer tolerate the marriage they were in, but it would be good to hear more from those who's marriages have actually survived.<p>Odile