After this morning (read chance and diligence post), I want to call my WH to say thanks for present and ask him over sometime. That would be really dumb, wouldn't it? After the progress(not acting like I miss him) this past week?
Go ahead. Tell me.
Missing him.
-CS

It sounds as if whatever you're doing is working, and he is realizing what he's missing, and he misses you. Hold on to that, don't back down now. Don't be too easy. Maybe you can write him a thank you note, and mail it to him, so he doesn't get an instant reward but he does get reinforcement for his thoughtfulness.

Help me to understand why it would be worng to at least say thank-you the next time you talk to him. Unless you have sworn off contact with him at present, a simple thank-you says I acknowledge what you have done, adn appreciate the effort you may putting into reconciliation. I would not go out of my way to call him, and to invite him back over if he is still having an affair, or has not shown committment to you individually may send the worng message.

Blew it. I just read your posts and I agree with you and WISH I wouldn't have called. I said thanks for md present and I was wondering if you'd like to come over for awhile? He said, "Can I call you later and let you know? I'm just leaving game and I'm not driving."
POOP! POOP! POOP!
Should I call him and say that I'm tired and let's do another time?
Now, I feel like I'm waiting on him again. Dumb move. Still no LB's though.
Thanks.
-CS

Cant-<p>If you are still in Plan A, I dont see any problem with calling him and thanking him for the gifts. By the way, him bringing you the flowers and such, wanting to hug you, and crying, dont discount that at all, there may be something going on there that you dont want to miss. Keep your eyes open for any further developments from H.<p>Back to the calling, if you are in Plan A, do, just keep in simple and light, dont invite him over, dont get all mushy, just a simple thank you and how much you appreciate him thinking of you. Let him be the one to invite you out, let him be the one to chase you, dont you be the one chasing him all around and making all the effort to get back together.<p>Stick to what you are doing, it may be having an effect. Keep on reading those books and thinking about how you are going to improve yourself and make you the best you there ever was.<p>Hang in there, CS, its a roller coaster ride for sure, but we are all here for you.
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CS-<p>Just saw your last post. So he went to the game, was he with OW, or maybe some friends? Who knows, yes that sucks, but you just gotta let it go and move on. Easy to say, hard to do, believe me, I know. Remember, expect nothing and you wont be disappointed, thats an attitude I had to hold when dealing with my WS.<p>You handled the call very well, no LB, no nothing. I wonder if he is thinking "why did she not make a big deal out of this, whats going on over there?"<p>Wadda mean "Who are you waiting for?" You are not waiting for H, right! You are moving on, with or without him, you are standing tall and saying "I dont deserve this crap from you, H, I dont need it and I wont take it! I am the best you ever had or ever will have and if you dont want it, WAH!"

LRS-
Thanks for pep talk. I need it. I don't know who he was with-my guess is a bunch of guys, WH and possibly OW. He usually goes with guy friends. Maybe he was planning to go to OW's afterward-who knows. I'll never know the truth. I don't even ask. Of course, OW is a sports fan...of course.
You are right..if he calls and is coming over-fine- or calls and is not coming over...fine. If he doesn't call at all..that's rude.
I didn't think about not making a big deal about him saying "I don't know". 2 weeks ago I would have and asked him a million questions. So, that is a positive...now next time I'll not ask him over!
-CS

Despite my bravado, WH never called either way and it hurts. I don't know why but I am surprised. I called and left him a message that since he hadn't called, I am assuming he wasn't coming over and to have a good night.
What an A##hole! My feelings are really hurt-more about the not calling- and I'm pissed that I put myself in this position. I need to get over him. What did I see in him?
-CS

It sounds like you are moving along okay. It will continue to be hard, but until he shows commitment to you, then it has to remain somewhat at arms length. If not he may try to continue to string you and the other woman both along.

I just don't understand why he couldn't at least pick-up the phone and let me know, especially on Mother's Day, and after how he acted this morning. I think maybe my friends and family are right, he's not worth it. I wish I didn't have three children with him.
-CS

If he had any feeling's at present he would not have done what he did first of all. I think if at present you expect anything realistic from him you are expecting more then you will most likely get. At present I would have a tendency to believe that he he indicates anything to you at all, that it most likely won't happen.
As far as having the three kids with him, it is tough to believe that someone you could have shared something so special with could treat you so badly, and hurt you the way they did. The good thing is that you have the power to shape those childrens future and to direc tthem in paths that hopefully they will never do something like this to another person. With my kids I would have never believed that this would become such a focus for our lives. I constantly try to let my kids know now the importance of marriage, communication, trying to work through problems, etc. Hang in there and expect him to come through in no committments until he can regularly prove to you that he is starting too follow through.

You are so right...expect nothing. I guess I get these glimpses of normalacy and think he is the person that I once knew.
I can't sleep again. I think I'm letting go of him and focussing on me and then something like this throws me into major scenerios-like this is crazy-hoping he'll get out of the fog, etc.
My WH won't talk about the OW at all to me or his family. He pretends that people at work don't know but they do. I want it in the open. How will he ever got out of the fog if there continues to be so much secrecy?
I wish there was something that I could get excited about. It would help. I feel withdrawn from kids-so many demands-and I don't have much to give right now.
My WH and I spent much of Sat. together with kid's stuff-it went well. Not since he first left, has he said it was a mistake that he left. It's going to be hard not to call him in the morning and read him the riot act. I know I shouldn't.
I just can't let him back in my heart even for a minute. The disappointment is too much. Logically, I know that plan A is for myself but in the back of mind, it's also about hope that WH comes back. I don't think it is going to happen. It's been 2 months now-for some that's not very long. But in 2 months, there has't been anything except discussion of kids and divorce plans.I'm desparate to be this upset over a nonphone call -but it is representative of how things are going.
Thanks for listening. I am not going to build any expectations again. I just don't think it is possible to deposit any love units with the existing relationship. I can't get close enough.
-CS

CS-<p>Don't despair, don't beat yourself up too much over WH and what he is doing. Some one here once related the WS as suffering from moose-brain worms, a fitting analogy. Have your read WAT's quick guidelines? if not, please do. Also, I highly recommend Dobson's "Love Must be Tough", its an excellent book that will help you let go of WH for now.<p>I know, 2 months seems like an eternity, and it is, but unfortunately, it may take longer. For me, DDay was last September, and WW and I are just starting to make some real progress towards recovery. The PA ended about 2 months ago, but the EA only ended about 2 weeks ago. That's 8 months and some of the most unbelievable crap happened during that time. I was ready to give up many, many times, but I never did, much as I wanted too. Sometimes it was because of the wonderful people here who gave me that much needed kick in the back-side, sometimes WW would come out of the fog a little and see what she was doing, but mostly it was God telling me not to give up because He was in charge, He would carry me through this, He would take care of me.<p>Your hurting, I know, the pain is more than you think you can bear. Your H is acting like the biggest louse in the world and is treating you the worst way possible. But please know that this is not the same H you married, this is not the same H who you have known these last 12 years and has helped you raise 3 precious kids. Aliens have abducted him and scrambled his brains! It is a roller coaster ride of emotions, you were on the uphill run a few days ago when H brought the presents, now you are on the downhill run because of H's actions. It will get better as time goes on, it really will. Remember this each time he does something so disrespectful to you or the kids.<p>Friends and family, don't put too much weight on their opinions. The only people who can give you good advice right now are the ones who really understand, counselors and people who have gone through it like us here at MB have/are.<p>This is a new week, what is your plan to get through it? What are you going to do for yourself? For your kids? What are you going to do to make yourself feel better? What are you going to do to make you the best CS there ever has been, or will be? You see, this is the time to get selfish, to look out for #1, to focus on YOU! And why not, keep doing Plan A and eventually WH is going to start focusing on you as well.<p>Be strong CS, hold you head high, be proud of all you have accomplished.
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LHS-
Hi. I do need to focus on me this week. I am going to go to Parents w/o Partners meeting and try to exercise everyday. I am on my way to the library today to pick up Dobson's Tough Love.
I saw WH this morning and told him I wanted to start Child Support, Alimony and Prop. Distribution paperwork and what I expected and that he had a week to counter and if he didn't, I would have him served. I told him I hadn't wanted to do it because it would cause further problems between us and/or if he wanted to return, I never wanted to wonder if it was because he was going to be penniless.
I said I wasn't mad he didn't get together last night, just that he didn't call. And I needed to let him go more than I have and for me, that means getting this stuff going. According to state law, we can't dissolve the marriage itself for one year from separation.
I said I was disappointed he didn't try at all, wasn't honest, etc. And he can't get past the point that he was unhappy the last year of our marriage and I didn't do anything about it. I didn't. And I apol'ed for that. He said he did love me, that has never been a question, but he couldn't live with me. Same old stuff. But it wasn't an argument. He thanked me about 5 times for stopping by to see him and talking to him.
I don't get it.
Anyway, I know what I have done isn't advisable. But I don't think WH will ever believe that I'll go on without him. He knows how important our family is to me. I suspect he is getting the picture now. He told me a zillion times he was sorry he didn't call last night and that I'd never know how sorry. Same old stuff. He asked to talk Tuesday night about the paperwork.
I am looking for action not meaningless words. I am sad today but feeling back in charge. I can't imagine dividing up our life but I also can't imagine things changing and being respected by him.
I applaud you for sticking this out the last eight months. I think it is worth it.
If WH ever gets out of the fog, I'll rethink it. Meanwhile, I need to figure out something to feel passionate about and look forward to and try to reconnect with my kids.
Thanks for your help.
-CS

I would suggest that the separation paperwork be done not to force WH to end the A, but as a means to protect you and the kids from WH's unpredictable behavior (and OW's influence on him). Be very careful with ultimatums, they are not a part of Plan A and have a tendency to backfire on the BS. If WH wants to sit down and talk about the paperwork, I would suggest doing it. Just make sure that you talk only about the separation stuff and nothing else. Let him know you love him and want to reconcile and are not doing this to hurt him, but as long as he continues to do what he is doing, you have to have legal protection for yourself and the kids.<p>Your looking for some concrete actions and yes, actions do speak louder that words. Pay close attention to what WH is doing, see if his actions are consistent with his words. WH is confused right now, he is probably really scared too, maybe wondering when you are going to finally blow your stack and let him have it with both the rolling pin and the frying pan! Part of a good Plan A is to let the WS know that you are a safe refuge for them, that when they confide in you, you will not get angry and use what they say to get back at them. One of the hardest things I had to do was listen to WW tell me right after DDay how the OM was a perfect match for her, how they were soul-mates, they were destined to be together. Man how I had to bite my tongue! But now, WW is telling me what a mistake it was, how OM could never give her what she needs, what is important to her. This just proves what all the experts say about A's being mostly a fantasy created by both the WS and OP.<p>From what you post, it sounds like WH is really having a hard time. I'll bet that things between him and OW are not very rosy right now. Honestly, why would anyone get involved in an A with a co-worker, I like to think of work as a vacation from my family, and my family as a vacation form work, why mix the 2 together? Do you think the OW has any idea of what she is getting into with 3 kids? I have 4 myself, a bit older than yours, but the same age range, and I wouldn't wish that on any one, not even the OP! (LOL) Don't give up, its too early, don't give up on H, the M, or yourself, but do let H and all the A-crap go, there isn't anything you can do about it. WH's behavior is going to be hard to figure out, that's all a part of them having their head in the fog (or somewhere else where its hard to see). Trying to understand a WS is like trying to argue with a 2-year old or a teenager, its futile, I've done all three, it all the same.<p>Hopefully some other MB-ers will jump in here and help you out, there are a lot here more knowledgeable than I am. Time and patience are on your side, CS, just focus on you and your kids. Let H and the OW live in the hell they created for themselves for now, eventually it will destroy whatever feelings they had for each other.

Thank you. I am going to take your advice, really. Back off and stop talking about anything about A or relationship. Just get paperwork done.
No, I can't imagine the OW knows what she's getting herself into...I don't know if she wants kids of her own...but she won't be helping to raise mine...she's the guy's buddy...likes sports, going out, sporting events. great shape..
I have no idea how things are going with OW and WH...or anything about the relationship. I hope it is going horrible. I do think the OW is smart in the way she befriended my eager, willing WH. We'll see. My WH is so close mouthed about her and A -opposite of yours. Go figure.
I appreciate all your posts and hope you have a great day. Taking the kids swimming.
-CS

I read Love Must Be Tough last night. I really thought it made sense. I wish there were more examples but I get the picture. It helped with my resolve not to call WH, etc. The think the paperwork we need to do is another reality check.
Bye.
-CS

I gave WH the paperwork about child support, custody, spousal support. He wasn't very happy and I don't care. He needs to be accountable for actions.. From here on out, it's about me and what I need to do for the future. WH is not interested in going along for the ride and after the week I've had with all the lies (he called last night and left a message that was lie. Why bother to call at all? I didn't ask him to)
Feeling bad and completely hopeless now that WH and I just have angry things to discuss and realize that I can't really Plan A anymore except for taking care of myself.
Thoughts?
-CS

Plan A is all about you, its not about WH or ending the A at all. Plan A simply states that you recognize the mistakes you made in the marriage and make the necessary changes within yourself so that when the 2 of you do get back together, you are working on an M that is free of these problems. As you are making these changes, you avoid any and all LB's (anger, disrespect and demands) towards WH and eventually he will see these changes and say to himself "What the **** was I thinking? W is the best thing I ever had, OW doesn't even come close to meeting my needs like W does!" Last night W told me that very thing, told me that she cant figure why she would even consider another man, said that I am the only one who can really meet her needs. I know a big part of this is my Plan A efforts.<p>The separation paperwork in a necessary part of this though. I like the 1 year waiting period, CO has the same thing. There is no reason for this to become an ugly confrontation. If WH doesn't want to be an integral part of the M, then he needs to see what it is going to be like without all the benefits of the M. While dealing with this issue, be pleasant to him, but make sure that you protect yourself and your kids financially. Make sure that visitation is spelled out clearly. Remember, you are dealing with someone who is not in their right mind, make sure you have everything spelled out so he cant come back later and say "That's not what I meant" <p>The next time he asks why you are pushing the separation paperwork, simply tell him that this is the way it has to be, that since he wants to live like you are separated, you both need to make it official and protect each other legally and financially. Its for his benefit as well as yours.<p>Keep reminding yourself that WH is not the same man you married of have loved for all these years. Aliens have abducted him and scrambled his brains. Eventually he will come out of the fog and start to see things for what they really are. Until then, noting you can do about it, just be prepared for when it does finally happen.

LRS-
Thanks for advice. After reading your post, I did reiterate (Sp) that I was not doing the paperwork to be vindictive but to protect me and the kids, etc. He said calmly, "I know."
Boy, was he down today. He watched the kids while I worked. He came on time (unusual) and was really down when he left. I walked him to the door and he just stood there for a minute like he wanted to say something. I pleasantly said Good-bye and see you Thursday night (when he watches the kids again).
I also read Private Lies today and am reading The Divorce Remedy. I am not feeling hopeful that WH will return but I am HONESTLY feeling better about myself today. Don't get me wrong, I daydream constantly about kissing my H again but I also know that I will make it w/o him. It'll just be a different dream.
For some reason, I am starting to finally understand that I can't control WH's actions. I can't make him stop seeing OW or talk him into reconciling. It's hard because I am a bit controlling but I get it now.
I think it is so cool that your w is saying those things to you. It is a reminder to me that even if my H and I don't reconcile, I can have that type of relationship with someone in the future.
Thanks for all your support the last couple of days..you've been a lifeline.
-CS