Hi MrF, just caught up with your posts, glad you are feeling better.<p>As suggested, take the good with the bad. The good will give you hope to get through the bad. <p>When I first 'Found out' my H was remorseful and we had a lot of good conversations. I learned a lot about what went 'wrong' in our M. He even said this will make our marriage stronger. That was three months ago and the fog, I'm sorry to say, has thickened. It clears every now and then, but I realised some time ago that this was going to be a looooong ride. I don't want to sound hopeless, each situation is unique and you never know what the alien abductees will do or when the fog will life. I'm just saying, be prepared for anything, think about how you will cope in new situations that may arise. Learn how to control your reactions this will help you reduce spontaneous LB's when your hurting. Its possible to do because the reactions and actions of WS are fairly similar so reading through other's posts will help you know what to expect. <p>You are obviously a very strong and intelligent man. <p>SH

Thanks Seahorse. I am not going to expect anything at all and just move along with my present plan. Should anything happen either way, be it good or bad. I will deal with it as I have dealt with this entire situation. As hard as it may be in the future, the worst is over. If you read my entire story, at least I am no longer exposed to the phone calls to the house and watching her chat in video for hours at a time with OM. That was a killer!<p>Yes I had a choice not to watch. We shared an office in the house. But I also own a business and have to work.... <p>Thanks!
Mr. Florida [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Well, and update for you all. The fog cleared and then settled back in. The WS sent me an email this morning that her and OM talked last night until the WS felt better. She says she still has her doubts as to how long it will last.<p>I was prepared for it, I thought. I was kind of hoping against hope if you will and when I got her email, it still hurt a great deal when the reality hit me. So after reading it and letting my head clear, I emailed her back and told her thta I am sure she is having issues with OM as well as issues of guilt, which I am sure she is having.. I also know that she told me yesterday the apartment she is living in is far to small for two people.... but non the less, in my email, I told her that I love her dearly and that as much as I want her back, it has to be for all of the right reasons. Those obviously being that she is ready to WORK on the marriage and that it will be rough. Until that time comes, I will wait for her. I told her that without doubt, I know she will return and I also told that deep somewhere in her heart, she knows she will too....<p>I know that she read the email as we were on yahoo messenger a bit and I had to send her a file. I asked her about it and she did not reply with any negativity etc.... <p>So, my plan is to just sit back and continue to ride the storm out if you will... it is hard and I am having a rather emotional day. Just my luck, I am a Pieces and we are extremely emotional.... btw, so is the WS<p>Mr. Florida

Hi MrF. The hurt really hurts dosen't it? Just ride with it, feel it, learn from it and it will pass. The pain will come and go, but feeling it is part of being a human being. You will survive, thrive and become stronger.<p>I was given good advice at the beginning of my ordeal - don't expect anything. Take everything WS says with a pinch of salt. They change their minds very quick and it can be hurtful. Learn how you can cope with it so that you don't LB. Although it sounds like you don't LB much at all.<p>You've communicated your intentions very clearly to her that you want to work on the marriage. You seem to be creating a 'safe' place to come home to. <p>Its like they don't really trust us though. That's what I find, that WS don't really believe we're committed to the changes. That's why we plan A to demonstrate to them that we're working on us, that we're living for ourselves and will go on with our lives with or without them. We hope that they will join us though!<p>Sounds to me she's finding out that things aren't so grand on the other side of the fence, if she's already complaining about the size of the appartment. Just listen, don't suggest or judge. Best to just shut up, that way you can't possibly LB [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Just try to keep busy (I'm sure with your own business you can), but remember to have fun too. Do you know some of the issues in your M that created the environment for the A? For me one of them was control, so I'm doing lots of reading about that and thinking too. That way I don't think about what H may be up to with OW, I have a very fertile imagination - I don't envy you, I would hate it carried on in front of me, and that was very disrespectful to you.<p>If you know some of the issues work on them, that will keep you busy too. Have you checked out Forgiver's post on Just Found Out - she's the plan A pinup girl!<p>Hang in there MrF.

MrFlorida:<p>I agree with the other posters that in the meantime you should work on your issues like the OCD before you and your WW decide to get back together. Remember that even if you changed your mind and divorced her, you can not divorce yourself from yourself and those issues would undoubtedly follow you and sabotage any relationship you might have with any other woman. So it is in your very best interests that you make the changes that will make you into a happy and healthy man. And all of this applies equally to your WW because she can jump from man to man but in time all of them will dump her because of her issues and she will be a miserable and lonely woman.<p>Have you thought about buying a copy of each of the Harley books and giving them to her as a self improvement gift from you? It would probably be the best gift she will ever receive in her life.<p>Good luck to you and God bless.<p>Joe

Thursday 5/23 update - 7 p.m. e.s.t. What a day and not very good. I had a time set up with my WS to meet online to send her some info for her job search. We met, I sent her the info while on yahoo messenger etc and then I told her to wait a bit and check her email. Then logged off of the messenger program. Not a minute later, the phone rang. She asked me what it was all about etc... so I told her that I was going to send her some money in case she was in need and that I also had plans to see a paralegal in the a.m. She immediately flipped and asked if I was filing for D. I replied with a no of course, which is the truth. After many pestering questions as to why I was going, I told her the truth. Which was to simply finally get my living will in order. It has been on my things to do list for a very long time. Well, that was the wrong answer. She flipped! She told me that thinking of killing myself would not get her back, only make her want to stay longer etc..... I tried and tried I did to tell her that it was simply not the case. She kept on with the pestering and I ended up just breaking down and lost it.... yep, tears and all and told her what this has done to me and just how I feel about her etc.... Her response ? Get a life. Real sweet huh ? I tried to tell her that she has no idea what she has done to me etc.... and she really does not. So round and round we go.... mostly her going off for a bit. Boy was this NOT my intention! Well to make a long story, I ended up apologizing and told her that I have had a couple of emotion filled days, coupled with my OCD. Stress etc, makes my OCD MUCH worse. That is the truth.... so finally, she told me that she was so sick of this etc.... I ended up basically stopping her and asked her not to scream etc and told her that I was very sorry and I have just had a couple of very bad days etc. I told her that I would not email her anymore etc. She also told me that everything was just great out there, if she could find job, she would be all set. I replied with, well, I am glad to hear that you are perfectly happy. She stated, I did not say that. My reply of course was, well you just said everything was so good and would be perfect if you only had a job. She is living with OM. So I apologized, told her I loved her and that I would not contact her.<p>Thirty minutes later..... I get this email....<p>I am sorry first of all... for the way I spoke to you,
I know your going threw a hard time and I am so sorry
that I have hurt you like this. I know I told you on
several times that this would happen.... if you could
not be a better husband..... but now is not the the
time to change I needed that a year ago... I am really
sorry no matter how I act or sound.... on the phone...
Please forgive me .... but I am just so tired... of
all this maybe I should be the one to get a living
will and say to hell with it all... Then I wont have
to feel guilty anymore and wont have to answer
anyone.... except GOD.... Please dont do this to
me.... Just let it go... for now...<p>Signed... WS<p>So, I of course did not reply. I dropped it. Part two.... about 45 mins later comes this email:<p>Please send me something in email I really am feeling
so bad... please ... <p>That was several hours ago and I had to run out for a short while. I received it just prior to this post and have not replied and really not sure if I intend to honestly. She told me she is so sick of all the nice things I am trying to do and that I should just leave her alone and get a life.<p>Do I just reply ? Do I just avoid any contact for a few days? I really would like some suggestions. She wants a reply to ensure that I am ok, so that she can go back to jumping into the amrs of OM. I would bet anything on that.<p>Sorry for the length, but just typing this out makes me feel a tad better.<p>Mr. Florida <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />

yes. I think you should reply to her. You don't have to be doormat, or whiney or needy in Plan A, but do be polite and respectufl, and save the no contact for Plan B, k?<p>Just thank her for the apology. Apologize yourself for the heated discussion and/or misunderstanding. Tell her you love her, miss her, and to take care. And that you are there for her.<p>My opinion... let us know what you decide, and how it goes.

MrF.
I have been following your post but have not yet replied to you because I dont feel that i am knowledgable enough to do so.
however if this were my situation (and it is not)
I would go to a stong plan B. MAybe no contact with you would make her see things in a new perspective. <p>just my thoughts
good luck

MrFla - I've been out of town for a few days and I'm just catching up.<p>I think you've been pressing too hard. For example:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MrFlorida:
<strong>I emailed her back and told her thta I am sure she is having issues with OM as well as issues of guilt, which I am sure she is having...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Please don't try to tell her what she's feeling. You may be correct, but this will come across as controlling and manipulative.<p>I recommend you back way off the communication. Respond to her in a loving caring way, but please consider NOT initiating so much conversation.<p>See what happens when you pressure her? Work on yourself and let her worry a bit. When she contacts you, be welcoming and pleasant. We know it's hard, but you have to do this. If you don't think you can be upbeat, don't communicate at all - at least not verbally.<p>Time is on your side. You CANNOT be in a hurry. If you're not sure about what to say or do - do NOTHING! say NOTHING! Just like the Miranda warning - everything you say or do can be used against you.<p>OK?<p>WAT

WAT, thank you. Please email me at floridahog@yahoo.com and I will send you my #800 number. I could sure use some verbal coaching. Thanks!<p>Mr. Florida [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Mr. Florida - I'd prefer not becoming a verbal coach. I am not a professional and I could be dead wrong. I am a strong proponent that discussions between BSs/WSs should be out in the open here unless extenuating circumstances exist such as the existance of known WS/BS lurkers who are out to distract. Keeping discussions in the open provides for a diversity of views and healthy debate.<p>I can highly recommend Steve Harley as an excellent counselor. It'll be the best money you've ever spent.<p>WAT

Hey, MrFLorida... you don't want that anyway... I heard WAT charges $100 per minute for coaching. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] He's THAT good!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ok ok ... kidding.<p>Seriously though... we're all here for ya... and we'll all help and learn free of charge, even WAT. <p>I'm not sure how long you've been lurking/reading... but there's SOOOOOO much info here - available for self-learning. A schmart fellow like you will pick up on so much and run with it. There's hundreds of ears (ok, eyes) here to listen (ok, read) to ya anytime.<p>And Steve H. would definitely be worth the $$ - even if for one session to get a game plan.

Thanks everyone. I feel better today and WAT, it was not really for a coaching. Just some verbal support would have been a better way to say it. I don't have anyone I can TALK to. Unfortunately right now, money is very very tight because of this and if I could afford Mr. Harley, believe me, I would get in one session with him. <p>Thanks again....<p>Mr. Florida

How bout an update? Did you send her a reply last nite? have you heard from her since your post last night about the e-mails?

Sorry faith. I did two things. First, I called her on her cell phone and apologized for the misunderstanding and I was very nice about it, as was she. We talked for about a min or two and then I sent her this email. The reference to moving out there is something she had previously mentioned to me... she had been looking for a job out there for me. She can make allot more money there and the economy here at present, is horrible and I am in a highly specialized line of work aside from owning my own biz.... here is the email:<p>WS, I am so very sorry that you are feeling badly. After we talked, I went out for a LONG, LONG and LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
ride by myself. I apologize for any misunderstandings earlier this afternoon. I honestly do and I had shut off the computer for once in my life and just left. I am sorry that you are feeling badly, I honestly am. <p>I know that you need time to think. I know that you have a great deal on your mind right now as you have mentioned. I will do as you requested and just let it be for now.
Just know that I miss you so terribly much, I love you so much (You have no idea!) and that I am here for you for whatever you need. I know that you are strong and can fend for yourself.. But sometimes we all need friends now and then to lean on. So lean on me when you need to. I will be strong for the both of us. <p>I talked with some friends from that site I go to and they made me feel much better. A very, very big part of my problems the past couple of days have been OCD related and it just makes it all the more worse for me. I am just going to do my best and keep a positive outlook on things. It is like that Alan Jackson song about 9-11. God gave us faith, hope and LOVE and the greatest gift of all is LOVE. You had given me the precious gift of your love, and I have faith and hope that I can earn that LOVE YOU HAD FOR ME back in time. For now, all I can do is what you need and just try from the miles that separate us to show you my LOVE as hard as it is. But that is ok, at least I have that.<p>I really hope that you get the job in Houston, and if god blesses me and you want me back, then I would move there on a moments notice to be with you again. It was so nice to hear your voice. Send me the bill for the call and just for the future, if you ever need it, I am going to send you a calling card for your cell phone early next week (maybe you can check with Verizon to see if it will work). You never know when you may need it. <p>For now, when ever you email me, I will email you back etc. When we first met, we kind of did the same thing and our love grew day by day for one another. Do you remember that ? Little by little... The more I think of it, the more I am forcing you and pushing you away. Not what I really want or need to do for YOU. So what I will do is, as you request just plain old back off for YOU and US. I will work on fixing ME. If you would be so KIND as to think about the list of THINGS I asked you for ( about what changes I need to make to be a better husband) then when and if the day ever comes that you want the OLD (not OLD age mind you) me back again, I will have had the chance to work on the problems for ME and US. I would really appreciate your help whenever you have the time. (Thank YOU)<p>If you want to call and talk, PLEASE call and I will be so HAPPY to hear your precious voice and talk to you for hours if you would like to. Also, feel free to email me at any time and if you want to have me reply, just ask. I will be more than happy to do that for you. For the time being, you won't hear from me for a while. This will let you "get this out of your system" as you have said that is what you needed to do, so that it time, you can get US back in your system again. I think it is just something you need to do for YOU. So be it. I know that we will be together again one day and even though you are not so sure that you love me anymore, I would bet every single thing that I or WE own, that in your heart, you know we will be back together one day. Remember like you said, "sometimes you can be the most caring and loving person...." I agree, but I know and will learn more each and every day that it just cannot be sometimes. It has to be ALL of the TIME. It will, it really will. I can assure YOU one ONE thing. I will NEVER make you another empty promise as long as I am living... ( I have made allot in times past... I KNOW THAT) god willing that I will live to be old and gray with YOU.... of course you will be as beautiful and graceful as ever at 81.... shoot by then, I will be 91 and if I am not careful, you may put me out to the OLD folks joint! ;-))))<p>Also, should you happen to run across any jobs in Houston, I am interested. I tried to look at that site you sent about that job and the web site was not working at all. Also, maybe in time after you have had time to think, you would consider sending me the local paper so that I can order it every Sunday and look for a job in Houston. <p>Ok, I have been thinking and typing for 45 minutes with this email lol ;-) So off I go to get ready to REST. Good night.<p>I Love You<p>Thank you <p>Ok did I LB anywhere in there ?<p>Mr. Florida<p>also, if there is anyone out there who would be willing to just talk, not offer advice mind you, just talk. I have an 800# here. Just send me email and I will give you the number. Our families are in other states and do not know about this. I really don't have anyone close to talk this over with, so talking to those who have gone thru it and going thru it, would really help me out.<p>Thanks again!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

A very heartfelt, loving Plan A e-mail [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . I think it was fine. Did you hear back from her?<p>Now, don't send another like that for a little while, k? Don't want to push. Don't want to seem needy. And don't want her to think that she can continue her A AND have you forever. So try to keep them short and polite. You'll probably only want to send something longer and more mushy no MORE than like once a week. <p>Headed into a holiday weekend. Make yourself some plans to stay busy. Need to catch up on some movies? Fishin? Go to the beach? Spending a few hours at the bookstore? Reading through the Notable Posts/Threads? Under-water basket-weaving? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Thanks faith, yes she did email me back saying that she was sick etc and that she would respond indepth when she felt better. I simply replied perhaps an hour ago or so and thanked her for the reply and that I looked forward to hearing from her again when she was feeling better.<p>Plans.... hmmm let's see. Taking the Harley out tonight for a ride again.... the pool for the day tomorrow and probably another Harley ride tomorrow night.... hit the library for some books.... self help stuff and a book by my favorite author.... Jeffrey Deavers. Then read Sunday and clean up a bit and weather permitting.... of course the Harley [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks faith [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

ahhhh [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>was wondering what floridahog meant. gotcha!<p>Glad you have plans for yourself.

Lol.... yeppers.... Hog as In Harley Davidson... bought a 2002 a few months ago after sellling a $65,000 showbike I built. Oh, yes. The under-water-basket-weaving is on the list as well... weather permitting.<p>I also always spend at least an hour a day here! Best site on the net, bar non. <p>Mr. Florida aka Floridahog [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Updated 6:15 p.m. eastern. Rather dramatic turn of events. I received an email from WS saying that she needed to talk immediately. Upon calling her mobile, she informed me that she was ready to come home and now.... I did not ask any prying questions etc. I told her that I would call and book an immediate flight to Houston for the a.m. Which I did. I just asked her if she was sure and she said yes and said it was going to happen, but she did not know when etc. So as of this second, I am waiting for a phone call to determine whether I pack for a very unexpected plane ride in the morning or ??????<p>God only knows....<p>I just told her that all I wanted was for her to be happy and her reply was "that is all anybody tells me lately" I assume that she and OM got into it somehow etc..... honestly, I am clueless.<p>I won't doubt for a minute that the fog will resettle within the hour and we are back to square one...... <p>In any event, that is the latest!<p>Mr. Florida [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]