No intro needed the subject should explain everything. I'm involed with a woman that is married, I been reading all the posts of others and seeing the similarities of my situation, to be honest ( which is a shock to most of you here since I'm the "OM" ) I hate the facts that my relationship with this woman is destin to fail. I know I'm not a bad person, I have high standards of life and morales, at least till I met this woman ( morales dropped slightly). I can explain why I did all the things that have brought me to this point of having a affair with a married woman. I have a great job, fairly handsome not the ladies man, but never really had a I hard time getting a date. SO WHY ? why did I get involed with this woman? I'll tell you all now it's not to boost my ego or to get bragging rites. It wasn't a done on a bet, a game or any childish ideas that "guys" come up with on a regualar basis. If it sounds like I'm making myself look like the victim, that's not it either. I just fell in love with this woman, and still am very much in love with this woman. Ok, so why? can anyone really answer this question, without making sound like love comes and goes like pair of shoes. I come from a family that mon and dad have been together since the beginning of time, and that marraige is sacred and all powerfull. SO AGAIN I ASK YOU! WHY? I've never done this before nor have I ever thought of this before nor did I plan this. This just happened to me, to us. I know it's wrong in every way possible to mankind but I still pursue her with all my heart and soul. You folks say this is just a normal feeling to have when it's new and fresh, kinda the whole "taboo" thing rite? Ok I'll buy that, but when do you know that your in love and not just lust? when do couples that are dating know when their in love? isn't it the same feeling? you just know rite? help me here, throw me bone! explain to me why this happened to me? is it fate, my destiny, a curse? What ever it may be, I'm willing to take it! and it's not to be mistaken for selfishness and the chance to take something away from somebody else. I'm in love with this woman. No other way to put it. I'm not caught up in a "fog", my vision is not blurred with fantasies of the cute houses and the white picket fences, I've very much aware of what we have to deal with if we end up together. I've never made any promises that I won't keep, I've told her that if we end up togther there's no promise that it will work, but don't all relationships have that chance? I'm much for the option to tell her husband about this and give him the chance, no the choice to make his marriage work. We have recently stopped any and all contact, another helpfull hint from you guys. I belive that no communication between us is a major factor in this ending up the way it should. WE both have agreed to not speak or try to contact each other, unless she has made up her mind on what she is going to do. What ever she decides to do will be final to me, if she wants to make her marriage work then so be it. I won't interfere, that's one promise I will keep. The reason I posted on this board wasn't to justify anything that I'm doing, or to get pity from anyone(not from this crowd), I just think this was a uncontrolable situation where 2 people met and fell in love, not planned or prepared. Isn't that what usually happens? (minus the spouse?) <p>Why me?

y_me - keep reading.<p>Well, we don't know anything about the prior health of their marriage, other than to conclude there were enough problems for her to justify her betrayal.<p>Also, before we can answer your questions, you need to answer a few for us:<p>Please tell us, does her husband know what's going on?<p>Do you, for even a moment, - if you've read much here at all - believe everything - correction, "anything" his wife has told you about him and their relationship?<p>Have you considered how it would feel to have the roles reversed - you're the husband being betrayed?<p>Suppose their marriage ends and you and she create your dream world. Are you so naive to believe that you won't become the husband in my previous question?<p>Please reply to these questions before I continue.<p>I'll wait.<p>Her husband deserves my efforts since he likely has had no choices here.<p>[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

Y-me,
I was the married WS who fell in love with the OM. And I felt like you did. I too have a few questions, bc in my opinion, love, commitment and marriage is about more than two people. Unfortunately, there are lots of people involved, and I think who those people are are also impt. So, are their children involved, how many and what ages?<p>I got the feeling that yuu were not in a relationship, but she was, is that correct? <p>If she is married and has children, you need to do the hardest thing that you will ever do in your life...no matter how much you think that you love her, you need to take yourself out of the equation. You need to have no contact, and you need to be strong and stick to it. You need to back-off so she can figure out what she wants. This is bigger than her. She has made a commitment to her H and more importantly, it there are children, she has made a commitment to bring them up in an intact family. You need to let her do that.<p>Now, if she hates her H, he's a jerk, abuses her, isn't committed to having a loving marriage, etc., that will make the situation and what you do different. But assuming that her H is a decent guy, loves her and the c, wants the marriage to work, you need to get out of her life.<p>People can be happy and love more than one person in there lives. She probably loves you and her H. But bc of her commitment when she got married, she is obligated to do whatever she can to make her marriage work and you in the picture will only cloud that.<p>Like I said, this will be the hardest thing you will ever do. It took me more than two years to cut off contact with my OM, but we've done it, and I'm making my H and children happy. Unfortunately, we can't always do what WE want, sometimes we have to do what the BETTER/RIGHT thing is and grow into making that also what we want.<p>I'm feel for you, it is so hard and you will feel so miserable for a really long time, but over time the misery will fade. <p>But do answer the questions okay?
Hang in there!
AS

y_me,<p>You ask why? It's because you didn't follow important rules not to fall into this trap in the first place. Granted---these rules are generally for married people, but unmarried folks ought to use the same common-sense precautions when dealing with people who are married.<p>1. No close opposite-sex friendships that exclude the spouse.<p>2. Never discuss marital problems with people of the opposite sex.<p>3. When you develop feelings for someone who is married---you flee in the opposite direction.<p>It's time to flee. No contact is an excellent first step. If contact resumes, you should do your best to make it horribly impersonal (at lease), and cruel if you have it in you. You've already "left the door open" in her mind with the shot about "every relationship has a chance". It's going to be nearly impossible for this woman to work on the marriage until she realizes that you're out of the picture. If you come across as the biggest self-centered jerk on the planet---that'll be the biggest gift you can give this couple to their marriage.<p>This was not an uncontrollable situation. You and this woman had complete control---you just failed to exercise it. Y-me, it's time to grow up, learn from this experience, and move on with your life.

You say you're not in a fog. But consider this: at one time, the married woman you are now in love with, was in love with someone else. And her feelings changed, sufficient that she would get involved with another man. <p>Feelings change. You say your morals have slipped slightly. You have the gift of the understatement. I'm not judging you. But you are accountable for the company you keep, and you are keeping company with a woman who in the eyes of the law and the eyes of God has promised herself EXCLUSIVELY to someone else. <p>For the time being, you must execute an absolute and immediate no contact. Do not try to win this woman from her husband. There are natural laws at work, even if you don't believe in karma, what goes around comes around. You will hurt far more than you can imagine if you continue with the relationship - more than you will hurt by breaking off contact with her and grieving the loss of the relationship. <p>Remember - whatever she has told you about her marriage is a lie - and you have proof that she lies because she is involved with you against the wishes and expectations of her husband. She is a living LIE. This fact is indefensible - so don't even try to stand up for her. (BTW, my mother was a WS, so I have the not-pleasure of having experienced the lies up close and personal - my mother had good reason to leave my father, but choosing another man for comfort while under the bond of marriage is indefensible - what it did to her for the rest of her life and what it did to her children - and I'm the only child that knows the full extent of the relationship but the ripples hit every one of my brothers and sisters and my father even though none of them know what my mother lived for ten years... sigh. I hope you can hear the pain here!)<p>Your feelings will change if you let them. But you have to separate yourself from her - any and all contact must stop immediately, or you will not experience the truth of my words. My mother's lover died within 48 hours of her "no contact" decision - of a heart attack. So she didn't have time to emotionally separate from the foggy "love" feelings before he moved to the romantic grief she still holds for him - it's sick and terrible to watch. And she's still married to my father! It's been 30 years since he died!<p>[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</p>

You claim that your love was "uncontrolable," but in almost the same breath you admit "I know it's wrong in every way possible to mankind but I still pursue her with all my heart and soul."<p>There's your problem. Don't kid yourself about your morals. If you saw a car you liked parked in your neighbor's driveway, would you drive off in it, on the basis that your desire for it was "uncontrolable"? Not unless you're a car thief. If you want to be a person of good morals, admit that what you have done was wrong and inexcusable and don't do it again.<p>And by the way, Plan B does not apply in your case. Plan B is what a betrayed spouse may decide to do in order to preserve their sanity while their adulterous spouse continues an affair. Cutting off contact in your case is simply doing the right thing.

y_me - I'm still waiting. In the meantime, read my sig line to get an idea of the company you're keeping as an OM.

This brought to mind something that happened to me long ago. I almost became an OW.<p>I was young and single and I met this man through a mutual friend. He was older (I was 20 he was 35), very attractive and he seemed to be so much more together than the guys my age. There were enough sparks between us to start a fire. We talked for hours that first night and he asked me out. <p>Now here I was a good catholic girl, a virgin to boot and I knew all he rules about staying away from married men. I checked for a wedding ring - nope no ring. I checked for the telltale signs of a ring being removed - nope no ring removed. I asked him if he was ever married and he said yes he was married right out of high school and was now divorced. So ok he was FREE and SINGLE and I was going out with him the very next day after I got home from work.<p>Everything should have run smoothly - I normally got home at 5 and he was picking me up at 6. He had my phone number in case he had any problems but it was I who had the problem - I got stuck late at work and there was no way I was going to be ready by 6.<p>I decided to call him. First I called our mutual friend and asked for his phone number but she wasn't home. I concentrated really hard and remembered where he told me he lived - grabbed the phone book and there he was, I dialed the number and waited for him to pick up but instead a woman answered. Naive, innocent me asked "Is Tom there?" Unidentified female said no he wasn't home and who is calling. I asked "who is this?" and female answered "his WIFE". <p>I hung up and freaked out. If I hadn't got caught up at work I would have been an OW even though I didn't know he was married! I went home and I told my equally catholic and very big Italian father what this man had tried to pull on me. When Mr. MM Tom came knocking it was this irate Italian father he got to speak to instead of me lol. I never saw this man again.<p>So he moral of this story is married persons are off limits period! I learned it very young and it was a lesson well learned. The minute you know they are married it's time to back off and move on in a different direction. Don't wait until you're involved to know for sure if they are married. Get their name, rank, address and phone number and call at different hours. Sad but true - cheaters even lie [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

"uncontrolable situation" .. I imagine you and I define "uncontrolable" differently.<p>The quake that destroyed my property in 1994 was uncontrolable. My WH's affair that began a few months after ... was NOT uncontrolable, because .... he had a choice!<p>I think you might be talking about uncontrolable FEELINGS .... but taking action on feelings is within our control, as intelligent, moral, mature, loving adults.<p>What do you think about this Y_me?<p>Good luck in your recovery .... be true and brave and make healthy choices.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

y_me,<p>Have you read Dr. Harley's material on the main site?<p>He says that affairs happen when people fail to protect their own weaknesses. This is what happenend to you. The situation was/is not out of your control. That statement is a cop-out. The control was/is completely in your hands, but for whatever weakness, you failed to make the right choices.<p>Now, make the right choice. You cannot control your feelings, but you can control your actions.<p>The others are correct, y_me. She's lying to her H; you can bet that she is lying to you. Relationships that are based on lies are unhealthy (not to mention immoral) from the start. <p>Hoping that you make the right choice,
Estes

Wow, could I ever write you a novel.<p>Mr Me...my OM was/is a decent human being who had a solid set of morals, who wasn't LOOKING to fall in love and wasn't LOOKING to ruin a marriage. My OM was single and available, ready to start a life with someone. After the tornado destroyed our home 3 years ago he was there for my H and I, helping us rebuild and storing what things were salvagable in his basement. His generosity and kindness mixed with my pain and no outlet for comfort was all it took. He and I began chatting, then talking on the phone...he became my best friend and was outraged at how my husband was ignoring my desperate need for soothing. My husband became the bad guy...and we began to talk of making a life together. We fell madly deeply in love...something neither of us had ever experienced before. That must have made it fate, we were soul mates!!! Well...that phase soon died off as realities managed to wiggle their way into everything. We both began reading and posting on different boards online. And we questioned, just as you are, the validity of OUR situation as opposed to OTHERS situations. We questioned what everyone was preaching and in the end we decided that we knew what was best for us. OM and I were on again off again MANY times before I finally seperated from my H. Then we were on again pretty heavily for a short time. Then reality hit BIG TIME. The realization of what REALLY lay before us. During all of this our true personalities reared their ugly heads. When we wanted to hang on to our fantasy we would pass those off as being due to the situation. The truth was we were not seeing the whole picture...we had no idea of what we were doing or had done...both to ourselves and to my marriage and my husband.<p>What I learned over a course of 2 years of off again on again torture was this.... My OM and I were possibly more compatible than my H and I in some ways...and less in other ways. A marriage to him would have been work just as my current marriage is. Had the OM ever truly shut the door and walked away...I never would have left in the first place. He refuses to see that as a truth...but it is. His willingness to wait and see what my decision was simply fed in to my fog and never allowed a real decision to be made. It just helped feed the fog, so to speak. He wanted to believe the marriage was unrecoverable in the first place...but it wasn't. Each time we were apart for a while and I would come to him SURE I had my mind made up he wanted to believe I was right, he wanted to believe I had a clear head and had truly tried and retried and the marriage just simply had failed...or my husband had failed.<p>No matter what...what he WANTED was not possible in the situation we were in. You are in that same situation. Clarity is not possible for her unless you are NOT in the picture. That doesn't mean you sit on the sideline and wait it out...it means you work on letting go of the relationship permanently. That means that YOU show committment to letting her go forever. You grieve the relationship and move on. I guarantee you as painful as it may seem...it can't compare to the pain you'll be put through if you continue on. And letting her go would be the kindest and most caring thing you could do. I still hold quite a bit of resentment towards my OM for not having been strong enough to just leave me alone. I went through far more torturous pain trying to make that decision than I would have if he just would have been man enough to end the relationship himself. He had no business being involved with me...as you have no business being involved with her.<p>If she wouldn't be divorcing or leaving her marriage if you weren't in the picture....then her marriage is fully capable of recovery. It's hit a dull spot and is need of change...but that doesn't require a divorce or a different partner...it requires WORK and COMITTMENT! Even if she does divorce....you'd better stay far away for another year...because many people are still confused about what they want at that point.

y_me,<p>Let me take a slightly different angle here... I'm a BH, and my WW has been involved in her A for a while now. For a long time, it continued in the bubble her and OM had created, insulated from the realities for day-to-day life. Then... I went and spoke to OM. Now, let me talk to you, like I talked to him. I don't know if your MW's husband would do the same thing or say the same things, but... it could happen. He has a voice that you're ignoring, and your MW may be ignoring too, since we have universally observed this behavior - all of us here.<p>So when I went to talk to OM, I decided to do it in person. I wouldn't allow him to avoid my face, avoid my words, or somehow ignore the reality of ME. I knocked on his door, and he came outside to talk to me, away from the embarrassment of his roommates.<p>I asked him if he knew who I was - he said "yes". (My W has my picture on her desk at work, to this day.) I asked him, "So what are your intentions here? What's your plan? Do you and W have any idea about where you're going, are are you kinda just eeking by day-to-day?"<p>He had to admit that his intention was to marry my W, but that he couldn't because she wasn't divorced yet... go figure! I then proceeded to make the following points, non-agressively:<p>- I do love WW
- I'm concerned for WW's mental health - she's in therapy, has expressed suicidal thoughts towards me at least, etc.
- I've done nothing to hold WW - she's free to leave whenever she wants
- Maybe he should listen to WW's ACTIONS, not words - in particular, the action that she has never LEFT me... what should that say?
- WW and I still do things together as H and W<p>So, y_me, how would you feel on the receiving end of this conversation? How would you feel seeing another person who's on the receiving end of your deceit and thoughtlessness, having the guts to face you, having the guts to say "I love her enough to just want her to be happy, regardless"? How are you going to feel when the A ends badly (assuming you allow it to languish, especially once it hits the light of day)?<p>Think about it. Consider it reality.<p>You lament about this R being destined to fail. Sorry dude... that's life. Project yourself ahead in time here... pretend for a moment that your MW has left her H but... she hasn't truly resolved and closed her issues with her M... so she's torn, becomes depressed, and starts making a miserable companion. But maybe she marries you regardless, deep down harboring a silent resentment she herself may not understand yet. Things like that tend to explode in time... we've seen other posters in that boat several times before. Now at that point you've invested possibly years of life and now are faced with a much more painful breakup. Not fun...<p>You have a chance here to stop a destructive cycle. There are certainly many possibilities out there, but you can never build a solid, open, honest and trustworthy relationship on the back of lies and deceit. Well... you can, but it'll either die, or you won't achieve the level of happiness and satisfaction you could by starting clean with someone who has resolved their issues fully and isn't carrying around an attachment to their ex-H or ex-W. If they had no such attachment, they'd be long gone from that R, now wouldn't they??<p>Just some things to consider from someone who hopefully has a little bit of wisdom...

Y_me,<p>Whether you and the WS would have worked out if she was not married is a mute point because she is. <p>RE: Same reason why you are only a virgin until the first time. Can't undo the past. <p>Neither can U. <p>What you need to do at this point is reevaluate yourself. What is your definition of love? <p>Reason why I say this is because true love will let go. Whether she does nor not, you will let go. Am I asking tooo much? Has it even been done before? <p>Yes, it has been done before and I am living proof. I met a man once who was separated from his W. She had 2 children not fathered by him and claimed that 1 of them was his when it was not. They finally divorced. The point is that once I found out and even though the feelings were strong......true love included respect. <p>The love in the A does not include respect. If it did, the WS would have broken it off a long time ago and you both would never have known whether you cared for each other or not and she would have worked on her M since that was her original choice. <p>In our case, it was a mutual agreement to stop seeing each other and the day we chanced to meet (which did happen at a store), he remembered and respected my wishes, never to speak to him again. So did I. <p>I am married and whether he is or not is unknown to me. Neither is it a consuming thought. I know that we both can be happy with or without each other. Because our individual happiness lies within. <p>Now as the OM, if you really want to know how the OP really pisses off the BS, read my post about the OWs stuff being in my garbage can. It is a short but true story. One of the many related here @ MB. <p>L.

Oh just a couple of more points I forgot...<p>y_me: What ever she decides to do will be final to me<p>J.R.: I assume you also mean if she decides to leave her H, you'll expect that to be a firm decision that'll stick, right? Good luck what that one... Most WS are NEVER fully decided about what they want... if they were, as I said before, they'd be long gone, never looking back, showing nothing but ambivalence to their STBX. How often do we see that? Next to never. Certainly not in your case already (since there's even the debate about whether to even tell at all [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] !!)<p>y_me: Isn't that what usually happens? (minus the spouse?)<p>J.R.: Simple answer - NO. Have you had a serious, long term relationship with an unmarried partner before? Recall what happens: you fall in love, you do have very intense feelings, but you level off eventually, develop a more mature love based on respect, trust, commitment and values. Think about an affair: if has no respect on either side, no trust (can you REALLY trust her?? I mean, she's cheating on her H!! Can she really trust you? You're helping her cheat on her H!!), no commitment (obvious), and no values (or at least they're twisted / put aside). So at about the stage where you'd be trying to achieve this in an affair relationship, you're shooting blanks, and most die at this stage. The reason they're so destructive is that most people try to hang onto that glowing, early stage far too long - basically because THAT'S ALL THERE IS!!! See?<p>y_me: explain to me why this happened to me?<p>J.R.: Because you let it. You could stop it at any point in time. You don't because you're an addict as much as she is. You hope to all hope that this feeling will last - and you do everything you can to hold onto the fairy dust... trust me... it will fade. If you two had to spend any time in the "real world" together - that'd be it... why would she throw away her current life (which she values enough to try to hold onto it by sneaking around apparently) for someone who she can't respect truly - I mean - you're aiding and abetting the destruction of her marriage, after all!<p>y_me: is it fate, my destiny, a curse?<p>J.R.: Looking for such explanations is a total cop-out and you know it deep down, I think. It's nothing more than selfishness run amok.<p>y_me: I'm not caught up in a "fog", my vision is not blurred with fantasies of the cute houses and the white picket fences, I've very much aware of what we have to deal with if we end up together.<p>J.R.: "The Fog" isn't about that... it's the general dismissal of all good-sense and morals for the sake of one's own selfish goals. It's the heart running wild over one's head. It's acting in ways that are thoughless and deceitful - and then justifying the bad behavior by making up excuses such as "the M is SOOO bad"... well if the M is or was so darn bad, why is she still in it??? A divorce only takes one person to initiate and complete... you do know that, right?????<p>Anyhow, I hate to sound like I'm ragging on you here... but it sounds like you're kind of on the fence yourself - wavering between a good choice and a bad one.... we all want to see you make the good one, for your LONG TERM happiness.

y_me:<p>You wouldn't mind a whole helluva lot if I came in her without reading the replies you've gotten so far and flamed your sorry a$$, would you?<p>Is a duck's butt waterproof?<p>I thought so. <p>NONE o f what you said about how you feel about this woman or how she thinks she feels about you MATTERS worth a hill of beans when compared to your RESPONSIBILITY as a human being, and her RESPONSIBILIITY as a W to her H, who does not deserve your "persuit" of this woman. NEVER MIND that your relationship doesn't stand a snowballs chance in the frying pan of Haydes of working out. NONE of it matters if you have a smidgen of integrity, morality, or self-worth left in the tiniest bone in your body (and I DO include THAT one!). <p>RUN AWAY. You will be doing this woman the best favor and biggest honor in the entire world if you LEAVE HER THE HELL ALONE from this moment through the rest of your life!!!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I DO NOT CARE what you think of my tirade. I am a "victim" of a jerk just like yourself. This OM has devastated OUR family as well as HIS OWN, and for what???? <p>Pull your head out of your a$$ and think about it. There may be something worth saving about you if you do.

Jeez -<p>I wonder what happened to Mr. Y_???<p>Gotta love these "hit and runs."

y_me - I'm still waiting on your answers.<p>If you don't want to reveal them here, you can e-mail me at DCScandals@yahoo.com and we'll keep them to ourselves for the sake of your soulmate's husband.<p>I suspect we've been harsh on you - and I hope you've listened to the message. If you haven't, you will eventually.<p>WAT

All:<p>I suspect y_me never existed in the first place.

Excuse me...I have to say this...<p>You refer to an affair as a "slight dip in morales" (sic-it should be morals)? I would refer to it as something much more than a "slight dip." This slight dip causes more pain than you can begin to imagine. This slight dip in my world is scraping the bottom of the barrel. <p>You say you have high standards? These high standards would have a relationship with someone who is dishonest and untrustworthy? These high standards have reduced you to taking something that does not belong to you. These high standards have disgraced the example your parents set before you and their name as well.<p>You ask why you have done this. I believe it's because you are in a fog. This fog has deluded you as to what morals and high standards are! <p>If someone harmed your parents and used the same excuses that you use...uncontrollable, unplanned... would these excuses take away the pain or destruction? You would expect them to stand accountable for their actions. Dear sir, you will do the same. No excuse, no pity, no rationalization will allow you to escape the mess you have created. <p>I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but the absurdity in your post was so pathetic, that I couldn't go without a response.

amhurt:<p>"You refer to an affair as a "slight dip in morales" (sic-it should be morals)? I would refer to it as something much more than a "slight dip." This slight dip causes more pain than you can begin to imagine. This slight dip in my world is scraping the bottom of the barrel. "<p>I'm thinking that "slight dip" refers to y_me, himself. But rather than correcting him to say "huge dip" I would describe this y_me character (charicature?) as a "Major Dip." [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But, like I said. I doubt very much y_me even exists. Or maybe he exists, but he's still in the 3rd grade.