Hey WAT,<p>You did such a good job on the "Quick-start" guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, why not compile us an "In the Fog" list.<p>In other words, compile a list of what to expect from WS's in terms of actions, words, quotes, etc. after the A has seen the light of day?<p>Or....If anyone else wants to thats fine too....<p>
HCII

Hi hcii - thanks for the endorsement of my guidelines. I hope you found it helpful.<p>In a way, I'm already compiling such a "list." It'll be in my unabridged guidelines, hopefully at a bookseller near you someday not too far off. The hard part of doing this is when I have to stick that long rod in my ear to stir up my brains. But the best stuff is scattered around this forum, described by BSs and even recovered WSs. But of course, my favorites are the one's I heard myself. Here's my best example:<p>Her: I'm in love with <OM>.<p>Me: Oh, so you now admit you're having an affair?<p>Her: NO! I said I was in love with <OM>. I am NOT HAVING AN AFFAIR!! What part of that don't you understand?<p>WAT

I'll add on...

I never realised how different/not suited/much it wasnt going to work until I met OP

.......or this version.........

THe OP helped me see how bad our marriage really was.

Dancer

<small>[ July 05, 2002, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Dancer ]</small>

Oh I just can't resist jumping in here- my H was the King of Fog!
After 8 month of no kissing or affection from WS to BS-
BS- Why won't you show me just a little affection or a kiss once in awhile?
WS- Because when you insist that I kiss you, it's as if you're demanding I go kiss the next door neighbor lady!"<p>lifeismessy

Bumping - I'm interested to hear more.

<small>[ July 05, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Dancer ]</small>

Not everybody may have seen this one, but:<p>Me: You said, back in January, that your A was an addiction.<p>WW: No, I said it was LIKE an addiction!

Me - Where will you be?
Him - None of your business.<p>5 hours later<p>Him - where are you going?
Me - why?
Him - see, you never tell me anything, you always keep things a secret.<p>Dancer

Here's one of mine -<p>Him: "It's because YOU'RE the way you are that I have to keep my affairs a secret!" (shouting at me with 6-yr-old son on my lap)<p>Me: "You're shouting at me in front of our son."<p>Him: "That's YOUR fault, too - you tried to talk to me with him in the house!" (shouting)<p>He stormed out and left for a couple of hours.<p>My son: (sitting on my lap and crying) "I want my old Daddy back! This is all my fault. I don't even know what I saw now!" (He told me out of the blue that he had seen Daddy kiss OW in the kitchen when she was in my house while I was at work - he didn't know anything about OW - I challenged H and H brought son into kitchen and got him to back down. (!) <p>OW had told me they were "just friends" and H talked all the time about "his boys". Fog makes them forget everything they ever said they believed in or loved.<p>Odile

Re: previous post<p>Son had told me about "kiss" 2 weeks b4 that argument happened - the trauma obviously resurfaced in his mind when Daddy got mad at Mommy again.<p>At present H is in IC - 5 sessions so far - I am in plan A - H still not talking about EAs - any conversation on this topic strictly out-of-bounds in house by mutual agreement to save children any more suffering - effectively, he has me "muzzled" about it until he agrees to go into MC - me, giving it time. Plan A going well.<p>Odile

How about: <p>1. I've never felt this way about anyone ever before, including you.

Ouch! that really hurt <p>2. I want the chance to love someone the way you love me (!)<p>does that mean he wanted to be hurt by her the way I've been hurt? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Thank goodness the fog has cleared. C

Let's not forget the<p>"she makes me feel alive"
what, as in I made you feel dead?!!!!<p>and there is the
"haven't you ever met someone you just clicked with and thought they could make you happy?" <p>DUH, I felt that way about 18 years ago when we started dating. Isnt that why WE GOT MARRIED?!!<p>THANK GOD the fog lifted....he is singing a much sweeter song these days.

I'm just sitting here shaking my head...<p>When informing me of OW's pregnancy by him..<p>Doc, " just think of her as a surrogate mother"<p>Uh... HELLO????

I've seen so many... my memory of the "best ones" has thankfully faded, now nearly 9 months post d-day.<p>But these ones do come to mind...<p>1. See, we were very steady in our relationship - how boring! OM and I are very up-and-down, which is what being in love is all about. In the end, those ups-and-downs probably average out to the same level we had.<p>2. If I leave and hate it, can I come back in 6 months?<p>3. I've always let life make decisions for me. I just kind of let myself fall into marrying you, for example. Now I feel like I've got a real opportunity to decide something for myself. [And then she promptly got onto the fence and has been there for 9 months!!!!]<p>See newbies - you aren't alone!!!!

Fog talk by WS<p>1. My mother must of been very unhappy in her marriage. (Trying to figure out what he meant)
2. I should never have gotten married I am not good marriage material. (Now living with OW)
3. You are a good wife, mother friend but you are like a sister to me.
4. To therapist - My wife is a very decent woman
5. On children - You are a strong woman and you will rear them according to your good values.
6. On OW - I know she is controlling and that she have many bad points but the few good points she have is very good.
7. On sex:- Sex is not that wonderful with her I would say average so this is not lust it is love.
8. On OW children living with ex/h:- She gave her children up for financial reasons. (She was living in a beach front apartment and driving a brand new car.)
9. She loves my children and will care for them as a mother. (After 8 months - children dispises her)
10. On Mothers day: Ask DD to wish her as she was also a mother: Much to the dismay of DD's who point blankly refused.
11. I will rather commit suicide than to be in an affair. (Before D-Day)<p>If I don't stop now I will be typing for the next 10 hrs because WS is still heavy in fog but now I can laugh about the things he says

8. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

If I had a nickel for every time WH has said these two things I'd be rich:<p> 1. My head is telling me to stay, but my heart tells me to go<p> 2. I just want one of you (me or OW) to leave me because then it won't be my fault and I won't feel guilty<p>Oh, and one more that really got me: You'd like OW if you got to know her, she's just like you 10 years ago (barf)

How about this one - said by my Dad to my Mom 30+ years ago - Dad was having an affair with 19-yr-old (he was 40+).<p> --"Can't you try to be kind to her - after all, this is her first affair." HUH?!<p>Odile

Oh yeah, <p>And then there was, "Well, there's a lot of things you can do with a 19-yr-old that you just can't do with a 40 year old woman!"<p>Like that's some kind of valid explanation?<p>Marriage broke up - Dad ended up marrying OW 12 (!) years later - now says "I wish I'd never got involved with her - I was just screwed up with all my problems then!" Said 3 years ago. Sometimes the fog clears too late.<p>Odile

How about these:<p>1. She makes me feel better about myself. Like I am attractive and important.<p>2. I get up every morning looking forward to go to work because she will be there. She makes work fun.<p>3. I have not been truly happy in years, but it only really surfaces when she is around.<p>4. Counselors are all quacks. Who are they to tell me who my friends should be?<p>5. Her flirting, etc. is usually a means for her to get me to do her job for her. But I enjoy it and she knows it. Who is it hurting? the best thing: She was fired because "her manager didn't like her" (not because she wasn't doing her job).<p>6. I am sexually attracted to her but you have nothing to worry about, she doesn't feel the same about me. I am like her big brother. (incest anyone?)<p>7. And the best one yet- I don't know what your problem is....she just told me she is gay.

ok i gotta jump in here...<p>ws... dont hate her shes been through alot<p>WS ... you two should become friends you are so much alike....<p>hack cough barf gag choke<p>
WS ... She'd be a great babysitter....<p>yeah like I would let that psycho watch my babies<p>etc etc

The all time most repeated (from what I've read on this board and in my personal experience)<p>1. I love you, but I'm not in love with you
2. I think maybe we've never been compatible
3. I just don't think I've ever been happy
4. You just don't understand me the way OW/OM does