Thanks Pepperband,
I guess I'm feeling really "under the gun" right now. I know that what my H has been telling all the friends of ours whom HE has talked to, is that I have been really difficult to live with when I was depressed (with PND and with the SAD in the wintertime) - and I'm afraid that most everybody on HIS side buys that story, but I don't know, because I haven't opened up a lot to these people. I have never told most people about his really abusive and controlling behaviour, because I have been v protective of him, so if I were to tell people, I'm not sure how seriously they would take me. I have also felt that I wasn't going to be the one to put our friends in the middle between us. I know my H has shied away from talking to some of our oldest friends, and has made new friends - the ones he talks to now do not know me at all, so they are not in any position to judge the accuracy of what he is saying. This does bother me.<p>I don't think there is anything wrong with me for feeling sad right now either - I think it's appropriate - yes, I'm depressed, but it's an appropriate response to what I'm going through. I'm not sure how much of what I feel is depression or whether it's fear - that I need to sort out with my counselor.<p>I do know that when I get depressed I tend not to see the good signs - everything has a pessimistic shadow over it. So that's where I need other people to help me see through the deep shade and see the good signs - like what you said about crying after you make love. I guess so - I just felt so despairing. I didn't really desire my H - I had sex with him because I felt like I had to - to make an effort to make the R work, but deep down, I don't know how much longer I can go on without him talking to me about himself and why he has done what he has done, and whether or not he is going to admit the wrong of it. I always want to run before I walk, and I am so impressed by the patience of so many BS's here whose WS go so much further than my H did. I am also really scared of what could be happening that I don't know about. Sometimes I just don't know whether I'm coming or going. My H is in counselling and always seems happier after his counselling sessions and is also more loving to me than he used to be - he called this AM at 8 just to check in with me b4 I left for work. Anything good he does makes me scared bcause he hasn't apologized or acknowledged his mistakes with OW - so for all I know, his "fog" is as thick as ever, and he's just having his cake and eating it too, and I don't know about it. <p>Well - I guess sometimes I'm just the worlds biggest worrywort - someone kick me!<p>Odile

Odile,<p>I finally was able to set aside enough time to get through your thread(around two hours). I am very worried about you. Do you think it is time for you to move on? Plan B or D? I am afraid for you and what you have left to give to life.<p>How are you doing? I am embarassed that not many people are posting here, not even me (sorry), and you have helped me so much. I think it may help if you start new threads each time a new subject comes up that you need help on. I think most people shy away from the long posts. <p>My wife values your opinion very highly. She likes you. I read her your post that you put on my thread about the OM. <p>I think I can hide my feelings here, but I need to tell someone, and I am afraid she will read it on any of my threads. I am feeling very depressed today. Most of the time I am just depressed a few hours in the morning. Today it is just getting worse. My wife is on her way right now to talk to her boss. I also feel great anxiety over this. I am not sure why. I now know for sure where my wife stands right now and it hurts real bad. She really wants to marry this guy and wants me to leave. I am not sure I can take this anymore. <p>I do not want to trouble her with this right now considering what she has to do today. She has an apt. with her boss at the office at 3:00 and this will last about 1.5 hours. She said at the last second today that her boss wants her to go to dinner with her. I have a sneaky suspision she is going to meet OM same office so this is real easy. I should not be sad at this I guess because it is expected. She says she has no desire to make our marriage work. I will watch the boys again tonight. I hope that I can keep my strength. I guess I just will throw one of those frozen pizzas in.<p>I do not want to give my boys up for any period of time and I want my wife back. I know the courts will give her most of the custody and I know my WW is a great Mom. This is just all to sad.<p>Sorry for posting this hear. That is all you need is more depressed people posting. I guess it may help you to know though that we all feel a ton of pain. I just think that sooner or later we may have to throw our hands up and say "THAT IS ENOUGH!!!!." For me it is just not now.<p>I am real worried about you. Hang in there. If it gets to be too much, move on. There are many men out there who would love to have a women like you.

O,
I'm sorry that I don't have much to add, but I did want to let you know I dropped by, and I'm thinking of you and your situation.<p>Maybe you shoud take Pepper's advice?

Dear Dreamland,
Thanks for talking to me - yes, it is real hard right now for both of us, maybe for different reasons, but the sadness is the same.<p>You have been a real example to me and I know to others, too - I'm just afraid you may end up going through a lot more pain before you get your wife back (if ever - there is always that possibility) - I guess for myself I have to say I have found this board very interesting - I am amazed at the stories here, and some people already separated and hardly seeing their spouses, but still trying to be a good spouse, and sometimes it works - trying to be the best person you can be, eradicating whatever "bad" behaviour you might have done to contribute to your spouse losing their love for you, but in the end, the WS is a person with free will and they have to make their own decisions - we can't make those decisions for them, but we have to live with the pain of their decisions - from what I have read of your thread, I think your wife is making a BIG mistake if she persists in keeping herself linked in any way to this guy, but that may be something she has to go through before she learns - some people just have to learn the hard way. Our priest said something worthwhile to me back in February - he said you can go to lots of counseling and analyse things until the cows come home, understand all the whys, but unless you both make concrete behavioural changes, nothing will change - you will still be in the same boat - he also said that you had to be two people who were able to build bridges between each other and he saw hope for us because we were still able to reach out to each other even though we were not yet in counseling. I think those signs are also there with you and your wife - as rough as it is for you, she is actually talking to you - Mars and Venus author stresses heavily that women talk through their problems and that they can start out saying one thing and end up with a different conclusion, so what they say to begin with isn't the end story - they HAVE to talk to sort out their thoughts - its the way our brains are wired - as long as your wife keeps talking, it means she is in a state of flux and is working through things. You can't make up her mind for her, you can only influence her by being the best Dreamland you can be, but as long as she is still talking, it means she hasn't made any firm decisions yet.<p>I know you are depressed - this is so incredibly draining and stressful - I wake up every day miserable because there hasn't been the "happy ending" that I want and need - but I tell myself one day at a time, and if I can't handle thinking about him (but I am obsessed with him and what he is thinking and doing - it never leaves my mind) - I need to do something to shift my attention away from him - this is the only way to handle real depression. Making yourself do something else - anything else, just something other than worrying the problem like a dog with a bone.<p>I don't think it is the time to give up hope on your wife. Although she has said some things that aren't what you want to hear, I think she is still just all up in the air with her feelings - this is a kind of a frantic time, with OMW kicking him out. Yes, she may go and meet him, but you don't know what is going to happen - she might, for once, see through him. It could take her leaving and living with him before she finds out what he's really like - plenty of WS do that and only then do they realize the truth of the matter and they do decide to come home and recommit to their marriage. That could still happen with you.<p>But I think if it comes to that - whatever you do, do NOT let her walk all over you with the kids - they are yours, and she is the one who strayed - this must count for something in court. Do NOT give in and leave the marital home - make her be the one to leave. A friend of mine let himself be suckered into this (she asked him to leave to give her time to think) and he was a lawyer! He said he was out a week b4 he realized what she had done to him, making it look like he had left his family, so he moved back in - they are now divorced.<p>That's just a warning - I'll say a prayer for you today - I'll pray that your wife's eyes and mind be opened to the truth. <p>As for me, I am not going to let this beat me. My H has a lot of problems - this I have always known and I have spent 17 years wanting to love and protect him. I don't know if it is possible for him to change - that is at the heart of my despair - if he cannot, then eventually, not right now, I cannot see myself staying with him - it would be the sacrifice of the rest of my life, and I just turned 45. But if he can change, and the reading I have been doing about this says that it is possible to change these kinds of relationships through long-term individual and joint therapy, then it seems there is still hope - in fact, one information page says the best outcome is with people who show artistic and musical talent, so I guess I should pay attention to that - my H is very talented - world-class in his field - I just put down the problems between us to his "difficult artistic temperment". But I can't accept all the other baggage AND his infatuations and emotional attachments to other women. That's just so unfair to me. I don't actually know if he is still involved with OW - he screamed at me 2 weeks ago that "there is nothing going on!" and the next day told me I was the only one in his life. But he also said there was nothing going on when they were e-mailing each other every day, so it just sounds like denial to me. I'm just hoping that through counselling, he will realize how totally screwed up it is to think you can carry on that kind of "lovey-dovey" fantasy with another woman when you say you are committed to someone else. Like your wife said, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its a duck.<p>I do think you get more responses when you start a new thread, that's true, so i will try that next time I have something new to say. The support I have got here has made a big difference in my life - I haven't totally cracked up - so I will still be around, but things are still in a holding pattern, it seems. I'm not going anywhere, though - <p>I'm glad I have my careers counselling to look forward to. <p>P.S. If things get tough and you want to post again anonymously, you can always change your name and go to your friends posts and say something like "I'm the one whose thread starts with the words XX", and we will know who you are. She will always be able to find your posts by typing Dreamland into the search engine - believe me, I've thought of this bcos my H would guess who I am by my codename - I wish i had thought up something different, but I'm stuck with it for the time being.<p>Hope by the time you get this you are feeling a little better. And thanks for your kind thoughts - I AM a nice person - I'm good-looking, don't need to lose weight, talented, affectionate, honest, a loyal friend, and have even been known to be funny sometimes. Hey! Something exciting did happen today - my best friend had her 4th baby at 5PM today - at home, in a birthing pool, with midwife in attendance - perfect normal birth - and I was able to go get her other 3 kids from after-school club, feed them all and send them back home to her happy - yes, my friend trusts me with her children and I was there for her - something to feel good about.<p>Odile

Thanks for the kind words. I am feeling better today.<p>I am going to post the whole story about her going back to work on the main board. I am not going to try to hide it in your post. <p>I am going to say on the main forum is that I was really anxious last night and paced the floors for hours. After the meeting my wife went out will her boss and her bosses boss. It was 10:45 before I heard anything from her. I was scared she decided to run. I was so terrified that she left me. I thought I had prepared myself for this, but I had not. I had to figure out what I would do. I would skip work the first day, then I would need help next week. I would hope she would call so that we could talk about what she wanted to do with the children as far as custody. No matter how much I think I can prepare myself for what may happen, I know I still will be devistated. I just love her so much. I feel pitiful and needy because of this.<p>About changing your H, as I learn more and more, I begin to realize what my father used to tell me all growing up. He said "the only way a person can change is if God changes them." I am beginning to believe this again. I recently added to this statement traumatic life events, but I do not believe that this is true. Eventually, by looking at all the posts out there, people fall into the same patterns they did before. The only way that we can really change anything other than just cosmetics is to let God change us by molding us into his image. Just imagine how all your problems would disappear if you and your H became like God. This is a tall order, but we can become closer to God and he can help us be like him. All of these self help books that we read provide us on insight on how the human mind works and how people relate to each other and the main thing, how to communicate effectively. Unfortunately, no deep changes will occurr unless God is doing the changing.<p>Just my thoughts. Have a great weekend. I am going to give my wife a great birthday.

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>