This will be long as it progresses.....but just a little to get started.<p>Been married for 22 years.....wife has a very hard time meeting any of my needs....from effectionate, to admiration...and definately sexual. Thus I have been having an A for over a year now. I have been reading His Needs Her Needs for a couple months now. Every thing I read talks about how the OW will only be meeting only a couple of needs while the wife still meets most of the others. I know of no need that my wife is meeting. For years I have been telling her my need for affection, and admiration. She says she understands.....but still cannot bring herself to be the one that initiates any type of affection. I had no problem initiating it in the past until it got to the point she would reject me.....nearly every time. Through this I lost all feelings for her I ever had. Now I am really torn between the OW and my wife. Not because I love my wife....but because of my convictions of my vows. I know I should not have ever started my A. But I also know if I ended it...and I continue to NOT have my needs met at home I may end back up in another A. How do I get her to realize that she MUST meet my needs. I wish I could say I was strong enough to stay even without my needs being met.....but I honestly know I cannot.<p>Thanks....I will share more later.<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: ready to go ]<p>[ June 01, 2002: Message edited by: ready to go ]<p>[ June 03, 2002: Message edited by: ready to go ]<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: ready to go ]</p>

Hi, readytogo:<p>Glad you're here to get advice -- I hope you're ready to hear some hard words, and I hope you're willing to make the changes necessary for a happy marriage.<p>First of all, you cannot expect your wife to meet any of your needs if you aren't willing to meet the most important need in marriage - monogamy. I, too, was refusing my H for sex most of the time....Just the thought of making love with him made me physically sick. He was withdrawn and treated me like a ball & chain when he even remembered me, then when we got into bed he'd reach over and start pawing at me. I was like, "you've gotta be kidding"? It's a horrible cycle, and someone has to be the first to break it. Regardless of what you are and aren't getting from your wife, your affair simply CANNOT be justified -- just as my FWH's couldn't, nor could mine. <p>Your marriage has no hope until you get totally out of the affair. I've been where you are, and I've been where your wife is. Believe me, you have NO IDEA of the pain you're causing. Your wife is problably confused and in pain, but you're too busy spending time with the OW to even notice. Please do the right thing!! Your marriage can be healed, and it CAN be better than you ever imagined...but you have to give it a fighting chance!<p>Here's my advice:<p>Step 1: Tell your wife about the affair. <p>Step 2: Write a "No Contact" letter to OW, with your wife's help. Let her mail it.<p>Step 3: Get into marriage counseling and give it your all.<p>Be ready and willing to fully answer any and all questions your wife has (now and in the future) about your affair. You owe it to her.<p>There have been several other threads recently started by people in your position. Perhaps someone can post a link or two for you (I'm not that computer literate.) <p>at peace

You said she MUST meet your needs? Well, no.<p>Many of us here are the BS (betrayed spouse), and what we strive to do is learn what WE did wrong in the marriage, and learn to better meet the needs of our WS (wayward spouse). We often work on ourselves, while waiting and negotiating for months with our WS to end the A, the whole time NOT having ANY of our needs met. We want to shake OUR WS's and say "you MUST meet my needs or I'm leaving!" The truth is, if you want your marriage, then you need to end your affair, then learn to work on YOURSELF in your marriage. If you're reading the MB concepts, then you're learning that passion and love can be rekindled in your marriage. But some basic steps have to be followed - even if YOU begin them without your wife.<p>My advice to you is to quit blaming your W for YOUR affair. She didn't meet all your needs. Did you meet hers? Probably not. You weren't honest with her - for one thing - because you've been having an affair. My H had an affair. He NEVER came to me honestly and said "my love is dying. Lets go to a counselor - or I'm going to a counselor". Isn't that the more honorable way to handle it?<p>Good for you for reading HNHN, and for coming here. We can provide you some support and encouragement to do the right thing. <p>Identify and meet HER needs, and invite her to come here and read the book WITH you. Be honest with her, and get the 2 of you in counseling.<p>Good luck... keep reading and posting.

A couple of things come to mind.<p>First, if your vows and committments mean so much to you, why did you choose NOW to sort out how important they are compared to your needs? That would have been better suited BEFORE you decided to have an affair. I would say your opinion of your marriage might be a bit clouded with OW in the picture.<p>Second, how realistic do you feel your view on your needs are?<p>Realize also, that the needs OW meets right now would NOT be her top priority if you left W for her. All relationships pass from that initial worship phase, and then you're left to attend to many of your needs yourself again. If you can't do that now, what makes you think you can do it with someone else?<p>A fabulous book to read would be Passionate Marriage by Schnarch (did I spell that right?) It talks a lot about what we THINK we need from our partner, vs what we REALLY need to be getting from OURSELVES.

I can understand how you feel. My wife has had problems meeting my emotional needs (EN's). I too shut her out, but instead of me having an A, she did. It makes me feel so lonely that she does not fill my needs for affection and sexual fulfillment. However, I know that part of blame for all of this is myself. For relationships to work, we need to slowly teach each other how we want to be loved. <p>A couple of quick background questions before I can say anymore:<p>1) Have you told your wife about the affair?
2) Is your wife having an affair? If no, search your feelings here, is it possible she is?
3) Have you been to marriage counseling?
4) Did your wife have a good childhood, and were her parents loving?
5) Do you have any children? Did she bond with your children?
6) Have you filled out the EN questionnaire? Has she filled out the EN questionnaire?
7) How does your wife feel about you? Have you talked to her about your feelings for you?
8) Is it possible that you are not filling her EN's and that is why she is not filling yours? Think back as far as you can, has she ever filled your EN's, or was your marriage for convenience?
9) Do you feel that you are a likeable person?
10) How long have you been married?

First of all I know I have not been perfect in my relationship with my wife....but she told me in July that there was absolutely NOTHING I could do different to be a better husband. So that is all I have to go on as to wheather I was meeting her needs or not. I know now I am not....because as long as I was pretending that everything was ok she didnt care if my needs were met or not. And now that she KNOWS what I need....she still CANNOT meet them. Its like she isnt capable. When she does try....she is very awkward. To the point that she only tries for a moment or two then she quits. She was more agressive before we married. Actually she is the one that first approached me in a sexual way. We dated for 4 years and she claims that she was a virgin when we married. We did do lots before marriage but never had intercourse. After marriage it was always me being the agressor....that was ok....until about 4 or 5 years ago when she started to reject me. Now I am at the point that she needs to PROVE to me that she really wants to be intimate with me. I have told her for over a year that it would take lots of work on her part. But for whatever reason she isnt trying. I do think I could go back to being the one to initiate everything....but I also believe I would wind up being rejected again...Not sure I can handle the hurt much more.<p>She has told me that she never did like having sex with me...and that because of what she has learned in church she thinks sex is bad. (we are baptist) I have NEVER heard that teaching. We have not had sex since December of 2000. We presently do not sleep together. My A only became sexual....in Dec. of 01....but has been emotional since April of 01. All along I have been trying to get my W to understand what I was NEEDING from our relationship. She says she never knew there was a problem until July.<p>To answer some of the questions asked of me:<p>I never intend to tell her about my A. I doubt that she is having an affair, but not sure. I have been to two counselors but she has not. She came from a broken home....my parents have always been married. I think she has bonded almost too well with our kids, to the point that she chooses them over me. I feel I am a very likeable person. We have been married 22 years.

I'm glad you gave us some more info.<p>Have you read through the Marriage Builders' web-site? The Basic Concepts, Q&A, and Articles?<p>Have you considered calling in to Steve or Jennifer for some guidance and a game-plan?

ready to go,<p>Well all of this is in my humble opinion (IMHO):<p>Please be patient for my response. I will not be able to get to this till tomorrow. I have quite a bit to say. As a prelude, I recommend getting the book "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom", and begin reading it today, your marriage may depend upon it. This is a must read for all men.<p>I too have very similiar sexual experience with my wife. I thought she did not like sex at all. Boy was I wrong!!! She let me know loud and clear a month or so after I found out about the physical and emotional affair (PA/EA). Do not believe what she tells you right now. It sounds like she is in pain. Women need to enjoy sex as much as men. That is all I can say now. I will follow up tomorrow. Until then read my story (long):My Long Story<p> and these links too:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dreamland:
[QB]ready to go,<p>Well all of this is in my humble opinion (IMHO):<p>Please be patient for my response. I will not be able to get to this till tomorrow. I have quite a bit to say. As a prelude, I recommend getting the book "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom", and begin reading it today, your marriage may depend upon it. This is a must read for all men.<p>I too have very similiar sexual experience with my wife. I thought she did not like sex at all. Boy was I wrong!!! She let me know loud and clear a month or so after I found out about the physical and emotional affair (PA/EA). Do not believe what she tells you right now. It sounds like she is in pain. Women need to enjoy sex as much as men. That is all I can say now. I will follow up tomorrow. Until then read my story (long):My Long Story<p> and this links too:<p>Questions about Sex

I had always thought she did enjoy sex with me until she said she hadnt. I had only been with one other one time before she and I even started dating. When she told me she NEVER enjoyed sex with me it was very devistating. We only had sex 2 times after that and it never was the same...at least not to me. I am the one that has pulled away....sexually....I do think she would be willing to be sexual with me now if I wanted to be. But until I KNOW she has worked through the issues of sex being bad and having a complex of what we did before marriage, I know I cannot have the emotional bond I NEED with her. I do think most men dont seem to need that type of bond...but I do. I want to make love....not just have sex...and for so long that is all it was in our marriage. Maybe it was that way all along.<p>Thanks

RTG, I was in the same situation that you are in now and I ended my A. I also have been to at least 4 different ICs although he hasn't been to one and won't consider it either. I found this site some months after I ended the A and found out what ENs were. I knew at that time that my H was not meeting most of my ENs whereas the OM had been. My H knew about my A. I shared with him everything I had learned from this site in the hopes that he would try to meet some of my ENs. He sounds like your W. When he does try, which is not often, it seems forced and unatural. Like it's a real effort and a pain in the a$$. It's been over 1 year since I ended the A and I still have the same marriage that I had before that. So I guess I really don't know what to tell you except that you are not alone. And yes, he also sounds pretty much like your W in the fact that he is perfectly happy with me and gives no suggestions on how I can better meet his ENs. According to him there is no problem in that area. I guess since he has no problems that means I shouldn't either?<p>[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: kellie5 ]</p>

She has told me that she never did like having sex with me...and that because of what she has learned in church she thinks sex is bad. (we are baptist) I have NEVER heard that teaching. We have not had sex since December of 2000. We presently do not sleep together. <p>
I have been a post reader for months and not a poster, but I have found this to be very helpful so I wanted to pass it on to you and your wife. It is a Yahoo Group called **edit** --they also have a website full of info. It is a Christian sex info site--but if you are easily offended do not go there as it has a LOT of very detailed information about anything and everything that affects a sexual relationship between a husband and wife and very detailed information on the how-to's of many sexual acts. It might also be of interest to you that one of the basic beliefs is that married people should be having sex with each other regularly--and they have helped countless people who were (in their opinion) misinformed about sex being bad. Hope this helps.

ready to go,<p>I hope that you are strong enough to say goodbye to the OW and try to rebuild your marriage with her totally out of the picture. Then, if you are not successful, file for divorce BEFORE entering another relationship.<p>You will have no hope of strengthening your M with OW still in the picture. She has to be gone, absolutely gone.<p>It is also critical that you tell your W about your relationship with OW. (Search for the lengthy threads on this topic.) It's a MB absolute.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Now I am really torn between the OW and my wife. Not because I love my wife....but because of my convictions of my vows. <hr></blockquote><p>Are you kidding , ready to go? Can you tell us what vows you are committed to? They definitely aren't your marriage vows. You broke them the first time you expressed your feelings to OW. Seriously, what are you referring to? You have voluntarily shattered your marriage covenant. You did it intentionally. No disrespect meant, but your behavior shows contempt, not commitment to your vows. If your wife has been rejecting you as you say, she is too.<p>Wishing you well in your attempt to discover how your marriage got to the point that you chose infidelity to solve your distress.<p>Estes

ready to go,<p>You could have described me in my first marriage the way you have described your wife. [my 1st left me in 1999] My H tried every which way to get the message across to me, including leaving me once, and I still did not get it. I just did not want to take the trouble to meet his needs and didn't think he was serious. After years of having none of his needs met [and I do mean zero] he abruptly left me. I suspect that he was having an affair. <p>I don't know if revealing the affair would have motivated me to change and to start meeting his needs, but I sure do wish I had been given the chance. <p>An affair would have been such an earth shattering revelation that I might have been moved to change. If not, at least I would have been given a choice and could have made the decision to leave the marriage. <p>I think you owe it to her to tell her the FULL TRUTH. She does have a right to know this. Let her decide and give her a chance to meet your needs.

If you intend to never tell your W about your A, then you will never have the emotional bond you say you NEED.<p>This is not about your W. It is about you. By the actions you have displayed to your W, you have been telling her for a year and a half that you are content with a sexless M. You are in a sexless M because you have chosen for it to be that way. You state that yourself. Your fear of rejection is what is wrong, and that is not going to change until YOU change it. There is nothing your W can do to help you with that.<p>As long as you are so dependent on a reflected sense of self, you will never have true intimacy with ANYONE. Intimacy requires self-confrontation and self-disclosure. Until you forge the necessary emotional bond with yourself, you will never have it with anyone else.<p>The kind of sex you say you want is available, but you have to be able to take the heat of the marital crucible. You're not even in the M, much less the crucible. Until you're willing to construct your crucible and take the heat, you will never reach your sexual potential.<p>In addition to the steps that have already been suggested, I recommend David Schnarch's books, Constructing the Sexual Crucible and Passionate Marriage: **edit**

<p>Speaking as one that Schnarch refers to as "the Blessed Few" who has experienced "wall-socket sex" (electric, intimate, other dimension, so spiritual that you feel like you can almost touch God), it is worth the heat of the crucible to get it.<p>If you are a believing Baptist, then you probably have a Bible. God is the CREATOR of sex. The marriage bed is undefiled. God has assigned you the role of spiritual leadership of your family. What are you teaching your W about God and his authorship of marital sex? God BLESSED us with our sexuality and our expression of it with our spouse. He didn't have to make even physical contact necessary for procreation, much less make it as pleasurable as it is! How MUCH He loves us to bestow such a wonderful gift on us! It starts with YOU appreciating the preciousness of that and then LEADING your W to that appreciation.<p>I submit you have NO idea what is lurking in your W sexually. I believe women who take the position she seems to have taken are trying to control a GIANT passion that they are afraid of it is so great. Schnarch explains it way better than I can. The sexual woman of your dreams may be hidden inside your W who is probably as afraid of rejection as you are, so is even more inhibited because of that.<p>And don't fool yourself that she doesn't know or suspect your A. OF COURSE she is not going to put herself out on a limb sexually while you're conducting an A with an OW! I quit having sex with my H, too, when he was treating me like sh** and pursuing another woman. Compare who you are with the OW with who you are with your W. See if you can find some answers there if you're totally honest with yourself. How much of your contempt do you think she perceives? I'm betting on a whole lot.<p>Since I decided to face all my demons and grow up and stop being afraid, my H is having a hard time keeping up with me sexually. Your best chance to get what you want is with the "wife of your youth", but you have to do all the hard stuff to get there. You are going to have pain, that is a given, but what kind do you want--the clean pain of growth or the dirty pain of continuing to violate your integrity?

IMHO:<p>I think that there are quite a bit of problems here by reading your posts, but I think I will pick the biggest problem. I think that it is very important for you to gain knew perspective about sex in a marriage. I had some very similiar feelings about sex only because I was not fully understanding my wife. I will try my best to help here, but I still believe that you must read "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom".<p>It is unfortunate that your wife has picked up on some of the legalistic people in the baptist church. It sounds like someone is telling her things about God and Marriage who is a close friend and who she trusts about the scripture. I am also a member of a southern baptist church in Georgia. Their are some people in the church that still believe this way. It is a very old school of thought that a women should not enjoy sex.<p>With that said, because she is a women, she may not be truthful to you now about her feelings about sex. She may be very hurt and very embarassed. She may have been pushed to feel this way by you. <p>Let me explain: I also had problems with my wife about sex. We had a decent sex life early in our marriage. We were both prety knew about sex. She had some sexual experiences in the past ...(I did not know this until just recently. She had lied to me about this.)... , but not enough to really know about sex and how to enjoy it. We enjoyed sex with each other and tried a good number of positions, fantasies, etc. together. However, we failed to really explore and talk about what touches each other liked and did not make sex an open topic. We each were embarassed to talk about ourselfs and what we liked sexually. We both even denied that we masturbated. Eventually sex gradually dulled over the years as work pushed into our lifes. Eventually, she would rarely initiate, she would just lay there in one position, she did not want me to do anything other than just intercourse (paritally because I was not good at anything else because I would not ask and she would not tell me about how she liked it and what I was doing wrong). Later on she began giving some exuses as to why she did not want to have sex, and after a quite a few denials, I quit asking. I started resenting her for not giving me sex. Sex is very important for me to feel loved. I eventually started telling her that she did not like sex, and that there was probably something wrong with her. She eventually began believing this. I had slowly warped her mind, and she slowly warped my mind about sex in marriage.<p>If you read my story, you know the rest. The point being, that you are responsible for how she feels about sex. God has charged you to be the head of the house about all things, and it sounds like you are misleading your wife about sex.<p>A woman MUST feel emotionally attached to you for her to ENJOY sex. As I have been told in this forum about a women's view about sex:<p>BAD RELATIONSHIP = BAD SEX
FAIR RELATIONSHIP = FAIR SEX
GOOD RELATIONSHIP = GOOD SEX
FANTASTIC RELATIONSHIP = FANTASTIC SEX<p>Sex begins in a womans heart, it then moves to her thoughts, and then finally moves to her sexual organs. We are, unfortunately, wired completely oposite.<p>I know I do not have to venture to far to guess that your relationship has been suffering. So how do you think sex will be? Do you want good sex with your wife again? If you do you are going to have to work at it. You are going to have to fill her emotional needs first. You are the man and you should protect her and take care of her. In God's eyes, you have brought this upon your marriage, and she was just an innocent bystander. Be interested in what she needs emotionally not just what you need. Has she filled out the emotional needs questionare? Have you talked to her about what she needs? When was the last time you took her on a date? <p>Once you have delt with some of your issues, you are going to have to tell her about the A. Remember that this will rock her world, and your marriage may not make it through. However, if it does, both of you are going to have to change.<p>Good luck and keep reading and posting.

I KNOW everything everyone is telling me is RIGHT. I know I should not be involved with someone else, and have broken my marriage vows. I also believe my W broke them too by not honoring, cherishing, or loving me also....not that two wrongs make a right. If it were up to me I would have left my marriage months ago for the OW....but she has young children and even though her H treats her like trash she has decided to stay in her M for the sake of the kids. We have agreed to not see each other any more. I know this will be very difficult. She has shown me more attention in the last year than my W has in 15 years.<p>What I dont understand is if my W wants to be intimate with me....as she SAYS....then why does she have such a hard time doing it? As I said before I have always been the agressor since we married.....and didnt mind until she started rejecting me. Now the only way I can truly believe that she really cares for ME is if she shows me. She KNOWS exactly what it would take to make me happy....and she either will not or can not do it. Whats so hard about holding hands, hugging, or sitting next to someone you LOVE. She has no trouble with her job...or seeking out the best solution for any other type of problems she may face....she carries a 4.0 in her masters program at College....while working 40+ hrs. a week. She has no problem scheduling vacations....and working out all the details of every minute we will be gone. But she cannot hold my hand for just one minute. <p>I NEED her to show me she cares....not by keeping the house clean...or by cooking elaborate meals, I just need a little affection....in all honesty it probably would not take much.<p>Getting back to the sexual issue....before she started rejecting me she would say things like...hurry up....and arnt you done yet...during intercourse.....or would give me one minute to get done.....and yes she timed me...and several times she made me quit because of not meeting that time limit. I tried to treat he like a queen, because that is how I thought she should be treated. The more distant I felt her getting the better I tried to treat her. Until a year or so ago I basically gave up.<p>Someone mentioned that since they faced all their demons their H has a hard time keeping up with them. Please tell me how did you do that. I am totally at a loss here. I have tried everything I know...I did move out for a week....then came back...afterwards my W hugged me for 3 nights in a row before bed time....then the 4th night I told her I would stay and not leave again. That was over a month ago...I have not had a hug since. Now I am thinking about moving out again.<p>Some positive signs is that she has started reading HNHN after I persisted. And has visited MB one time. But again it is only because I have been the one to MAKE her do it. It does bother me that the only reason she does make any kind of a positive move is because I have to initiate it, it would mean so much more is she were the one to initiate it.<p>I know this is long and jumps around alot...just sharing my heart is all.<p>Thanks for listening.

What I dont understand is if my W wants to be intimate with me....as she SAYS....then why does she have such a hard time doing it? <p>Because most women don't work that way. My wife (formally wayward) also knows excatly what I want -- heck, I even made her a list. Does so do it? Nope. Does she do some of it? Yes; but she didn't at first.<p>We are much alike, we want our wives to respond in a manner that conveys commitment and love. For me, I struggle with the idea of how my wife was more sexual with the OM than with me (in some ways) and until those things happen in my marriage, I won't feel that she cares for me as much as she did for him. But, you know what? Right now she may NOT care for me that much yet. Know what else? As difficult as that is for me to stomach, it is OK for now. We are growing closer and I will continue to try to be patient for her to love me as I want to be loved.<p>For us, as much as we want it to be emotional and loving, it is still an act we could do with nearly anyone without hesitation -- it is how we are wired. Your wife (and mine) does not work that way. You may find that you have to do all sorts of work to get her to the point of loving you in the manner you wish in return. And, as someone else stated, you created this sexless marriage by letting happen. Your lack of action convey that such was OK. It has been your own insecurity that has communicated the wrong message to your wife. My wfie had the same problem - did not communicate what she wanted, got frustrated, then had an affair. She now knows that it was her own insecurity and fear that kept her from being honest with me (regarding how she wished for me to treat her) that poisoned the marriage. I don't get off the hook though, I should have been making more inquiries instead of just being accepting. I have my own insecurities to deal with as well.<p>As I said before I have always been the agressor since we married.....and didnt mind until she started rejecting me. Now the only way I can truly believe that she really cares for ME is if she shows me. She KNOWS exactly what it would take to make me happy....and she either will not or can not do it. <p>You are setting yourself up for failure. Read up on Selfish Demands from this site. Do you REALLY want her to have sex with you out of obligation or do you want it out of desire? Honestly, you are being pretty damn selfish at this point considering you/were getting it from the OW and now want your wife to quickly fill that role. Perhaps there ARE things that may be more important in the meantime. I can tell you this, you will eventually need to determine what IS more important -- being selfish or being a loving husband. If you decide to be a loving husband, you may find that your wife won't want to have sex with you for months. That may be some of the consequences of your behavior. A loving husband will understand that he will have to regain the love, affection, trust, and caring of his wife -- all that will likely be necessary for her to want to re-enter a physical relationship with you.<p>Ask yourself, what are willing to do (and possibly give up) to save your marriage. After you know the answer, double it.<p>Whats so hard about holding hands, hugging, or sitting next to someone you LOVE. <p>Maybe she doesn't love you. *shrug* Maybe she is just saying so. Maybe she has been lying to you (and possibly herself) all this time as well. My wife says she loves me (and I think she does) but she sometimes finds my affection smothering. Pushing it will get you no where.<p>She has no trouble with her job...or seeking out the best solution for any other type of problems she may face....she carries a 4.0 in her masters program at College....while working 40+ hrs. a week. She has no problem scheduling vacations....and working out all the details of every minute we will be gone. But she cannot hold my hand for just one minute. <p>And what does that tell you?<p>I NEED her to show me she cares....not by keeping the house clean...or by cooking elaborate meals, I just need a little affection....in all honesty it probably would not take much.<p>No, you don't NEED. You want. There is a difference. The two of you should enter counseling as soon as possible. I suspect she is not being honest with her feelings to herself or you.<p>Getting back to the sexual issue....before she started rejecting me she would say things like...hurry up....and arnt you done yet...during intercourse.....or would give me one minute to get done.....and yes she timed me...and several times she made me quit because of not meeting that time limit. I tried to treat he like a queen, because that is how I thought she should be treated. The more distant I felt her getting the better I tried to treat her. Until a year or so ago I basically gave up.<p>Again, maybe you really were not meeting her ENs either. Most people would have not clue what their ENs are (much less their Love Language) prior to reading about it. I often asked my wife the same question and she either was afraid to answer or no idea how to do so -- so she would lie and say things were fine (by word and deed).<p>then the 4th night I told her I would stay and not leave again. That was over a month ago...I have not had a hug since. Now I am thinking about moving out again.<p>Did you even DISCUSS why you moved out? Have you discussed your thoughts about moving out again? Have you told her how much you appreciated those hugs and how much you miss and desire them? What sort of communication (and responsibility) are you taking for improving the situation?<p>I see all these complaints about what your wife is not doing. Really, this is not a time to be concerned with your wife's behavior, this is a time to be concerned with yours. You cannot change her, you can only change yourself and hopefully, you acknowledge you have a lot of growing to do. So far, your focus has been on what can you do to get your wife to be who you want her to be.<p>I think it is time you start wondering what you can do to get YOU to be the husband your wife wants you to be. I can promise you that you currently are not such.<p>My biggest growth occured from my wife's A is when I learned to stop trying to help her grow and to only be concerned with my growth. I now let God (and her counselor) be in charge of her growth. I cannot force her to change any more than I could have forced her to stop the A. If I really loved her, I had to be willing to let her go and hope she came back to me. Now that she is back with me, I have to remain vigilant that she will grow into the wife I desire in her own time -- and if she does, then perhaps the perfect wife I desire is not the one I meant to be with. Perhaps I am to live with an emotionally handicap person. It really is not significantly different than if I married a physically handicap person (or she became such after marriage).<p>Again, what are you will to do or give up to save your marriage? I hope your list of exclusions is short.

readytogo:<p>As I stated earlier, for several months early last year (until D-Day in July) that I hated sex and couldn't stand for my FWH to touch me in a sexual way. He was closed-off from me emotionally, and treated me like I was "just his wife." I could tell he was looking for things to dislike about me, and I figured it was because he was once again in an inappropriate relationship. I was right, of course. Before he met the OW, he told me daily how wonderful I was and how much he loved me...funny, but after he met her his views about me suddenly took a nose-dive. I didn't change, at least until he started withdrawing and treating me and the kids like an obligation. <p>Anyway, from the time FWH met OW until D-Day he acted like he could barely tolerate being around me, but immediately following D-Day I was suddenly the most precious and wonderful woman in the entire world. He couldn't imagine living without me, and had no idea what he'd been thinking! He started actually treating me like a queen (instead of just telling people he was) and I responded to it like a flower to sunshine. Our sex life went from 0 to 60 in days. It's better (and definitely more frequent) than it's ever been in 18 years. <p>I don't really know what I'm trying to convey to you. I totally agree with the others who've said that you have to concentrate on fixing yourself and not on "fixing" your wife.<p>Best of luck!<p>at peace

How am I sappose to KNOW that she desires to be with me.....when in most cases it is still me that makes the first move towards getting anything about our marriage resolved. She will not go to a counselor...and has just now started reading HNHN and looking at MB .....I have been telling her about this for over a month now. It does bother me that she has let things go for so long without reaching out to me. Until a year ago my life revolved around meeting all her needs, and I believe if she were honest she would say I did. She never told me....but she told my mom that I spoiled her and treated her better than any wife she knew. She has never told me that. And I was GLAD to do that...I loved doing it as long she wasnt rejecting me....after she started doing that it totally changed the way I feel about her. I do think if she would start reaching out to me I would began to start having feelings for her again.<p>Must go.....Thanks