Just give it TIME... <p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>hugs,
Cali

CS-<p>Your sounding a lot better and a lot stronger. Yes, let go and let God take care of this, its the only way. Patience, perserverance and commitment will get you through this.<p>Dont know if this will help you, but I find a lot of strength in Joyce Meyers teachings on patience and staying positive in the face of adversity, they really hit home with me. Hopefully this link will get you to the site.<p>Patience<p>[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: loveherstill ]<p>[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: loveherstill ]</p>

Hi. Postponed trip for day...leaving Friday. I have too much to do. WH and I went to MC this am. Liked the counselor (same) this time. Nothing really came out it. Except WS said this is the first good week we've had because I didn't call him to talk about anything. It's interesting because this is the most distant I've acted and felt. It means to me that WH is comfortable with the nonemotion between us and doesn't really want anything. I said I was really starting to let go and that is what this trip is about. What I didn't say is that I think I am letting go and losing love for my husband at the same time. I am tired of waiting for him to say let's work on it or give some indication of interest. I look at him and think I can't do this with you anymore. It's really starting not to matter at all. I just feel sad about the loss and the loss for the kids. I don't think there's anything to put back together for either of us.
Hope this trip helps me make some future plans.
-CS

Well, my up mood was short lived. I am so upset tonight that I am throwing up. Sorry for the image. Received e-mail from WH. It said "I thought counseling went better. It did show me that our long term goals are and were different. It made me sad but also made me feel better."
When I saw him, I said what? We didn't even talk about them..just the communication process. He said he is only going to counseling so we can communicate better not to try to save our marriage. I started crying and left.
What the f###? I can't do this. How can he have given up on us so easily? How can he be so detached? I think he truly is comfortable being friends-trading kids and saying hi. I am so incredibly sad. It's been 4 mths and I keep thinking I am going forward and letting go and then something like this hits and I feel so utterly useless and pathetic.
Thanks for listening.
-CS

I talked to WH when he dropped the kids off. He asked why I was having such a hard day. I told him that each time I let go alittle more, it hurt. I continued to LB. I said something in a snotty tone and he called me on it. I said, I thought maybe you missed me and wanted to work on things. He said, "I miss alot of things about you." Notice, what was left out.Then, I said, "it's a bummer. I'm sad. You leave here feeling like crap and then you have someone telling you, "It's OK. You've done the right thing. You were so unhappy. You need to do what's right for you." He said, I'm going now And he left."
My goal was to leave for trip on a good note with WH. Why is that so unattainable for me? He offered to come help me pack tomorrow night and I accepted. NO MATTER WHAT I AM NOT GOING TO LB.
When does this get better?
-CS

{{{{CS}}}}<p>It does get better, it really does. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to work through all the emotional turmoil. You and H have been M for 12 years and have 3 kids, it just doesn't go away over night. Your feeling every emotion in the book right now, really getting your moneys worth on that roller coaster ride and that's ok, you need to go through it. As you continue with your Plan A improvements, learn more about yourself and become the best CS there is, it will get easier for you to deal with this situation.<p>One thing I have noticed is that you tell WH a lot about 'letting go'. Are you still committed to restoring the M? The reason why I ask is that these comments can be interpreted by WH (especially in the fog state) as meaning that you no longer want H, the M or even want to work on it. If WH relays this to OW, think of how she can use this to keep him from coming back. IMHO, you should refrain from telling him this, or anything else related to your M and if he brings it up, simply tell him that you still love him and are committed to the M and want to work on it and leave it at that. I think this is a key thing in how you are dealing with this and get the feeling that WH thinks you have given up completely and that is why he is acting the way he does. He seems very defensive and very unsure of what the future holds between the 2 of you.<p>Continue the counseling, having that neutral third party involved may be the key to getting WH to come out of his A induced stupor. Have you talked to the C by yourself about what your goals are in all of this? Is the C committed to getting the M back on track. I think it is important that the C know exactly what it is you expect from their services.<p>OK, things look really dismal right now, but they aren't. A few weeks ago I was 99% sure that my M was over, but now things seem to be getting a little bit better. We are no where near any kind of good recovery, but I think the seed has been planted and it just needs some more time to grow. WH keeps coming by the house and spends some time with you, that's good. Sure, it means he is a cake eater, but it also means that he still sees something in you. Look at his actions, not his words, there is some consistency there.<p>If you have a hard time seeing WH and avoiding the nasty LB's, try placing some limits on when, where and for how long you see him. Maybe meet him in a park with the kids, try and get him to take you out for lunch/dinner or a movie, but only for a short amount of time. If he does come by the house, put a firm limit on the amount of time you think you can be with him without any LB's. Tell him "Look WH, I appreciate you coming over, but I need to leave in x minutes for something or the other" If you don't think you can handle him coming over to help you pack, just tell him that you would rather do this by yourself. You can be honest with him without LB-ing, its ok to express your feelings, whether good or bad, it's the way you do it that has the potential for damage.<p>I think your doing fine CS, nothing I have seen so far tells me that it is completely hopeless. Don't worry about where things stand between you and WH when you go on vacation. Take a mental and emotional vacation also when you leave, you deserve it.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

LHS-
Boy, what a night. Wh came to son's game and over to help pack. I completely lost it and cried. I told him that I loved him and thought we could make the M work.
You were right-He said, "I'm confused. Why the sudden turn around-two days ago you told me you're letting me go and keep saying that"
However, after I poured my heart out (unusual for me to do that), he said, " I love you. I care about you. But we are in different spots right now. " (ie. not the inlove thing)
He said everytime he tried to hug me I threw it back in his face and refused to be friends with him, etc. He said I want to know how your day went-good or bad-because I care about you but if you just want to talk about the kids-OK."
I can't tell you how painful this conversation was-actually you may know.
Basically, he is saying he loves me like a friend.
When I said I thought it could work with alot of effort, he said, "I have told you that I am never going back to that situation".
He said he had gotten an atty because of my push for financial paperwork. He said I don't know why you are doing it-100 percent of my money goes into your checking account (true). I said, "Do you want to wait on it?" He said, "I don't care. I'm in no hurry" Earlier He said he could do it when I got back. Huh? I don't believe that he got an atty.
I let him hug me and when he left he hugged me again, started to cry and left.
Please tell me that I haven't been downgraded to sister/friend status for eternity. I almost prefer anger.
Should I be his friend? Or is this allowing him to have family and OW? He says he isn't seeing her but I have no proof of that and I am not checking. Remember he said he isn't seeing her only for the purpose of proving to me that our marriage failed because of us, not her. I have always conceded that we had problems...but he wouldn't have left if not for her.
Sometimes I feel like he is punishing me for the past year of our M-like it makes him feel better or something.
He then listed all the reasons he can't return:
Everyone knows about the affair, I'll never trust him, I'll always bring it up, he is much happier since he left-he's nicer to the kids, me (?), and work, blah.
Should I continue with my flawed Plan A? What about this friend thing?
Comments please.
-cs

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> "I'm confused. Why the sudden turn around-two days ago you told me you're letting me go and keep saying that"<hr></blockquote><p>For WH, this is completely true, in a way, it's the same things you are feeling. For you its confusing because the man who you love and committed your life too has decided to walk out on the M and be with OW. For him, he hears you telling him you are through with him, yet still keeps hanging on to him. Thats why Plan A is so important, it keeps you focused on improving yourself and gives you consistency. For both of you, your words and actions don't match and that is why the confusion and lack of commitment from him and the emotional turmoil for you. Consistency in words and actions is important, both of you 'say' its over, but you both act like there is still hope.<p>Trying to Plan A while separated is very difficult, but it can be done. Yes, you are at a disadvantage because WH moved out prior to DDay and has kept his distance, I think that it what is so hard for you, your wanting your EN's met by someone who isn't capable of doing it and isn't even there physically to try right now. I think there is a wealth of information in your last post. Maybe I'm wrong, but WH just gave you his list of EN's last night. From the way you explain OW, she is only filling a small amount of his EN's (mainly recreation and companionship), but he is coming to you to have the others (and much more important ones) fulfilled. Have you tried to fill out the EN questionnaire for WH as things are right now? It may give you some insight as to what he is looking for. If you are up to it, maybe its time to let your guard down a little bit and try and meet some of those EN's and see what happens. Pick one of the EN's that you think is at the top of WH's list (besides SF, thats at the top of all us guys list, it's a given!) and try some things to meet it, see what happens. I'm guessing that his top needs right now are family time, your companionship and communication.<p>Some of his 'reasons' for not coming back should be looked at to see if there is any validity in them, if only to see things from his side:<p>Everyone knows about the affair- probably true, but that isn't your problem is it? After all, he had the A and he has to live with the results. Its not what everyone else thinks that is important, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" right? Its what you do that is important, its how you deal with the situation, learn from it, forgive and move on that is important. Together, the 2 of you can get through this.<p>I'll never trust him, I'll always bring it up- You wont trust him unconditionally anymore, that's for sure. But, that's a good thing because it will make the 2 of you more accountable, more communicative, more receptive to each others needs and will lead to the kind of intimacy that makes long term M's possible. As far as bringing it up, you have control over that. It needs to be brought up and dealt with, but only in a constructive way.<p>he is much happier since he left-he's nicer to the kids, me (?), and work- HORSEFEATHERS, plain and simple, that's right out of the fog-ese script. He's miserable, I'm sure you can pick up on that. He's just using that line to try and justify what he has done, nothing more.<p>I have told you that I am never going back to that situation- and I am sure you don't want to either! Another reason why Plan A is so important, it shows both you and WH that you are serious about becoming a better person and making the M the envy of all.<p>I'm just seeing things from your post, but it sure looks like something is changing for WH. Maybe its your 'moving on' attitude, or maybe your vacation without him, or maybe him and OW are completely through and he wants to come back but is scared and doesn't know how. Not to give you any false hope and I am probably wrong on this, but it really does seem that way, what do you think? Going to be interesting to see what happens when you get back.