I think my Plan A does have a greater impact than one may believe...
She actually mentioned something in the letter I saw last night. I can also tell when I am doing a great job at being "differentiated" that it makes her very uneasy. When this happened during the last A rounds, she got to the point where she started snooping through my stuff to see what I was up to...<p>It's a funny game sometimes<p>Sweden

<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Sweden, you have better self control, and a better attitude than most, but even you can't last forever. Just make sure you go to B before you are too far gone. <p>And even if you can continue plan A, you need to know what your options are if she seeks D. <p>Pehaps, if she sees the D book, that could help. I believe she needs a shock, or to hit "rock bottom" as they say, before she will work on her addiction. Continuing on as you have been won't do that for her. <p>SS<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

SS,
I totally agree. In many ways, Plan B sounds great right now, but can one do a "real B" and still live togetherMaybe I need to change the rules here a bit. I must first wait until I seek & obtain the advice from IC.
Here's something that MAYBE is adding a crimp to the situation. My WW's walking partner and current best friend is a D'd older woman who lives down the hall from us. It could be a one-plus hour counseling session (on how to get out of the relationship) everytime they walk together. <p>Sweden

Yes, and it could be a " don't do it, it will ruin your life," session too, don't worry much about that. <p>I agree to seek IC before you do anything. The more you know, the more options you have. <p>Hang in there, you are doing it right. You make decisions carefully and thoughtfully. You have love for W and that is good. I believe you will be OK. But it still hurts and you have to do the work. Don't give up. <p>SS

Went home for dinner, and had what could be described as a very interesting time. I got everything in one package (vacation dicussion, divorce discussion, living arrangements, etc...)<p>Discussion 1: I went home and she was just cleaning off the table from dinner with the kids. I could tell she was angry immediately by her initial comments to me. While I was eating and complimenting the great burritos she made, she took up the subject of vacations again. WW was wondering what I had found for cheap trips on the net, and I stated that I hadn't been looking. I then told her because it was so important to her that we not go, that I will bypass the trip this year. She became mad! She accused me of doing a "180" and going back on my word to our D. She kept on the subject for about another 10 minutes until she realized she was beating a dead horse.<p>Discussion 2: Since the vacation thing didn't work, she then wanted to move on to a civil discussion on child responsibilities. We sat down with a calender and paper and went through a schedule on who would be resp. for the kids each evening. She wanted every other night weekdays and every other weekend off. No deal!!! I countered with alternate days week-around--meaning no extended weekends with friends and lovers. I could tell that she wasn't pleased with the arrangement, but I don't think there was a lot she could do. She concluded with some angry comments about the situation.<p>Discussion 3: By this time she was getting really hot. So we moved on to divorce discussions. She wanted to agree on everything right then. I said, "no way. and I must seek advice first." I also told her that I didn't feel she was capable of having custody of the kids presently, and that I would seek custody and retain rights to our apt. I also let her know at this point I would bring the situation to the court system, and not settle matters outside of court like most weak, give-away-the-farm Swedes would do it. She wasn't pleased. <p>Through all of this I remained "quite" pleasant, and didn't get dragged into her mud-throwing. I think I did well (of course, not perfect).
I still must comment that I feel there are outside motivations here at work. I hate snooping to find them, but it would probably help me understand more about her motivations here. Does she extended periods to see an OM? Ór does she just hate my guts? Maybe both...<p>Immediately after all of this she called her father to explain everything that happened. He's a nice guy and it is too bad I can't explain to him all the details to him what has happened over the past 3 months (I tried it last time and it got to be too much for him...).<p>So, there we are. I'm in deeper, but it isn't the first time I've been here...<p>Sweden

Good for you. Hold on to what you are doing, don't give anything away. <p>We never know what will happen, but this one doesn't look good. She has made some very bad choices not once but three times( if I rember your story right, been a while since I have read it.) <p>I wonder what it will take for her to change or if she ever will. You have noted some positive things too, lets just see how it plays out. Go ahead and do what you have planned and see how she reacts. <p>Do you think she made plans to be with OM (during vacation) and now you have ruined them? Or was she going to go?

Sweden:<p>I don't think she can carry on a rational discussion right now, but you can. She'll have to go away and think about what you said and how you said it. Maybe the fog will thin a bit when she does?<p>You did good with a tense situation.

2L & SS,
First she wasn't going to go with us. Then she stated she'd go if I found some really cheap tickets, which I did. Now she claims she wouldn't go again (tonight).
So, yes, maybe I did spoil her plans at a fantastically romantic week!
I feel terrible...<p>I'm a bit confused as to where to proceed from here. Maybe a good Plan A but NO space for any sort of doormatting... She'll leave again tomorrow with the kids for a few days with her family at the summer house. I wasn't invited. She is most-likely too mad currenly to listen to any rational advice that may come from that direction.<p>Sweden

So, what would happen if you packed your things and went along anyway? Or would she come un-glued if you started to pack? Or perhaps you could pack in secret and just load your stuff with the childrens, and get in when they leave? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I mean, you're the one that said you didn't want to be a door mat. <p>Don't be afraid, you have done nothing wrong. See IC as soon as you can, it will help you.

Well I just had ice cream with the W, kids and my BIL in the middle of town. They all just headed up to her parent's summer house on the coast for the next 4 days. I'll miss the kids, but not her anger... She was still very mad at me for some reason. I held totally cool through the whole get-together. I really think that it burns her up when her brother and myself get along so well.
So all talk of vacation are on hold for a few days. If she brings it up again on Sunday, I'll try and find something for Monday morning when the "last minute" tickets are dirt cheap. <p>I don't want to do anything abrupt at this point, because she'll probably blow. Well, maybe that is what she needs...<p>A few days with us being apart after the events of the past few days will be nice.<p>Sweden

It will be interresting to see what her family thinks of her constant SMSing while she is with them. Or is she doing better? <p>If she is still doing it, they will feel for you even more. How did she explain to them that you weren't coming with her? <p>Hope you get some rest and relaxation for a few days. At least you won't have an angry spouse around. I have to hand it to you, you have grit. <p>SS

Thanks for the concerns...
I have been trying to reach the IC here this morning, but the concept of "customer service" hasn't reached Sweden yet. Example: we waited 4 months to get into joint counseling 1-1/2 years back...<p>The SMSing thing is interesting. I heard her begrudgingly tell her father 2 nights back that I said that she must stop SMSing while in the house. She made it sound to her father that it was a very irrational thing for me to demand because she placed her mobile number on the resumes for jobs she sent out and they couldn't reach her if they wanted to call. We do have a "normal" telephone too. Hopefully, her parents will realize that it isn't only potential employers that will be calling, but others. Sadly, I really doubt that they'll make the connection because she has only been giving them 1/2-truths...Not much I can really do though. <p>I think I mentioend in the last post that my BIL invited me to the summer house on Sunday with the family. As much as I'd like to "stiff" the family, I feel it is a perfect opportunity to spend some wonderful, self-confident time with them, It will drive the WW nuts! Yeeehaaa!<p>Yes, it was very relaxing last night alone. I went for a 1+hour walk (which I don't really need right now because I'm losing so much weight) and worked on a new book on divorce (in Swedish). The book is rather light reading but that is good for one whose Swedish language skills are not so strong. The book is surprisingly optimistic on individuals being able to solve their relationship problems, which is strange for Sweden.<p>Sweden

So you actually told her no SMS in the house. Good for you. No wonder she is angry about everyting. Take away her adiction, she is suffering withdrawl. Does she leave a lot? <p>BTW, how old are your children? Are the old enough to know something is going on? <p>Is wife ever happy with you? Do you have happy times also? Or is it real work always? <p>Enjoy your free time. Sounds like you don't get much.

WOW!
Yesterday was a BAD day, but not relationship-wise. I received a computer virus from somebody in Latvia and it sent itself to all in my addressbook. STRESSful!<p>I just got off the telephone with my W to discuss the virus thing. It wasn't a real positive conversation, and the last thing she asked was if I found a lawyer yet. I first said, "lets not talk about it." then I said, "actually, NO." I think she is nervous that I am moving forward with process; if that is the case, then I can interpret it as she isn't really sure about what she is doing... I don't know. It's always a guessing game.<p>Yes, I did tell her no mobile in the apt. She didn't at all agree! That's where the job contact agrument came in. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm not sure about the impact on the children. We've done a good job at keeping the discussions away from them. They are 3 and 6, so they understand. Yes, there are some happy times, but not real recently...She has been bitter. If there is an A right now, then she is feeling withdrawl in a big way. Otherwise, she just hates my guts right now! <p>I'm off to Copenhagen tomorrow to watch the soccer game against England in the stadium there. It should be a good day!<p>Sweden

You're doing fine, Sweden, keep us posted.
My own situation is not too dissimilar... WW still contacting OM, but hiding it from me.<p>Good luck.<p>PS - we'll give the Danes a good hiding tomorrow faster than you can say smoergasboerd. long live sven goran. Come-on Ingurland!

You are doing well for all the guessing you have to do. Don't let it get to you. For all the problems, and with not knowing exactly what is hapening, you are right much of the timt. To me, that means you are doing the right things. <p>Children will know something is not right. They can feel it after a while. I always wonder how WS can cope with the guilt of what they do. What a terrible burden to live with. <p>Keep doing what you are doing and collect information, you will know what to do when the time comes. <p>SS

A rather ugly weekend...I think.
W and kids returned home yesterday (Sunday) from their few days away at the summer house. She (W) was not pleased to be home... I really couldn't be in the apt. w/o being attacked. She first attacked me again on the "vacation" topic, and how I twist everything around and do a "180". She said I should bring the kids on vacation for a week, but also that I am very inconsiderate for not being concerned with their (health and safety) well-being. That they need the "right" shots before they leave. Hello? We are going to Spain, not on some African safari...The POJA doesn't seem to work here.
Next, she jumped back to the D topic. Wondering if I have scheduled a court time yet? I told her to take it easy and that I was still in the advice seeking process. She made it clear to me that it was very expensive, and that she has been busy interviewing all the neighbors to show that she is not an incompetent mother (I never said she was, just I think that the parential stability lies with me right now). This went to to a few other topics also, but I think you get the point...<p>All of this nonsense was in conjunction with me reading my book on D in Sweden. It doesn't paint such a positive picture of the situation here, or saving the situation. I think it depressed me some.<p>This all gets me thinking if I should just take some time and head back to the states??? I see no signs of reconciliation at this point; plus ultimately, I really am not too optimistic about staying here in Sweden either. A little relationship R &R. The only thing that is holding me are the kids, which it breaks my heart to think about being away from them, but staying in the current situation is also taking its toll upon me... Do I roll the dice and start fresh? Or am I suffering from some sort of diversionary illusions that are helping to pull me off track??<p>Nick123, Wow, you guys gave Denmark a romping! It wasn't too pleasant to be in Copenhagen on Sat.<p>
Sweden

Sorry that you havent had a good weekend (compounded by Danemark losing 3:0 [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ). Again, your situation looks broadly similar - with one big difference: you guys seem to fight it out openly - which may be a plus compared to a WW having secretive agendas and outwardly pretending everything to be OK.
Of course, lot of stuff your WW is babbling is fogese at its best, so you can safely ignore it. As long as you can take it, focus on being the nice chap.

Thanks for the encouragement!<p>What are you doing to help cope with the situation? Do you have any rollercoaster nausea pills?? Today I learned that spending some time with good friends really helps a lot.<p>I'm actually from the states, so I have no real hard feelings for the Denmark or Sweden soccer losses...USA, USA, USA (not like we have a prayer...)!!!<p>I was a "nice chap" after work today. She was on me for a while again on the vacation thing. She gave up after about 5 minutes. She also was pushing for alternating whole weekends with the kids. I said no again.
Her excuse is that she wants to take the kids to the summer house during the weekends this summer. I have no real problem with that, and if that is all she is thinking, then so be it. But I also get to thinking about those weekends where she won't have the kids; what will she do then? Off to see the OM? Maybe I'm going nuts here but something seems a bit fishy... Is she desperate to see somebody (OM)? She acts like it...
I call for joint counseling tomorrow morning to try and iron out some of this stuff. Sweden isn't the most efficient of places in the summer, so I hope I can schedule a time before x-mas...<p>
The fun continues Hang in there too!!!<p>Sweden