I've been monitoring my H's email without his knowledge, and this past Wednesday I found an email from the EA OW, quoting things my H said to her in a previous message. After 6 months of plan A (the last two being really good plan A) I found out that he is still in love with her and has not let her go. They had not been talking for two months and I thought that would help... but as they said to each other - "nothing changes". He's lied to me about how he feels about her and I just couldn't take it anymore. We were on the verge of separation anyway and he said he was having a lot of trouble accepting my changes as permanent.<p>I decided I was going to tell him what I'd been doing and that I knew how he felt about her. I confronted him yesterday morning before our MC appointment, and he said that he was separating his feelings for her from our situation. I told him it doesn't work that way, but he insisted that his feelings for her had nothing to do with our problems. I asked him if he would be willing to write the no contact letter with me, and to keep trying, and he essentially said no. We talked more and he said that he didn't think he could ever accept my changes as permanent. <p>We went to our MC appointment and the doctor said he knew there was some impediment that was preventing progress. He said that in his experience when emotional energy was being devoted to someone outside the marriage, it was an impediment. H talked about feeling that our relationship had really ended last summer when we'd had some problems, but that he hadn't done anything about it at the time, and that now it was too late. The MC said that was probably an impediment as well. Then we started talking about it being over and where to go from here. <p>My H said he had no idea how to do this, he was so sorry that things were this way, he was crying, and the doctor told us to go home and spend some time apart before we started talking about any of it. We went home and as H was about to go out, I started crying again and he held me, and that led to SF!! As we were starting he said he didn't want to do it if it was going to make me feel worse or give me false hope, but all I could think was "one last time..." It was really good... but later he said it probably wasn't a good idea. <p>Before he left later that afternoon, I asked him if he was going to keep wearing his ring. He said he hadn't thought about anything like that. I expressed concern that he hadn't thought through the practical matters, and he thought I was trying to say he shouldn't do it because of them. I told him that I was just concerned because it's such a difficult process and if his feelings changed, would he go ahead with it just because he said he would. He said no, he wouldn't do it just out of pride. We decided to keep wearing our rings for now - I told him that until a judge signed papers we are still married, and he agreed. I asked him if he would consider doing a trial separation rather than just being done, and he said he'd think about it.<p>This morning he called to see if I'd made it to work, and to see how I was. As we were hanging up, he said "I love you" and I replied "I love you too" - then he said "sorry, I probably shouldn't have said that" and I started crying. At lunch we talked about splitting up our things, and it was so hard... I kept tearing up and couldn't look at him much, it hurt. I asked him about the trial separation and he said no. He kept saying how sorry he was... so I asked him why he was doing it and he said he was sorry it was hurting me but that wasn't enough reason to stay in the relationship. He still loves me and cares about me but doesn't think we are good for each other.<p>I am having a really hard time accepting this... it doesn't seem real... and he said he was having the same problem. He's coming to the house tomorrow to pack up some of his things and move them out. Originally he was going to stay tonight but after me being upset at lunch he decided it would be better if he just came over in the morning.<p>I don't know what to do... I know I need to prepare for the worst... but do I keep doing plan A or do I go to plan B or what? He's being nicer to me than he has in 6 months. I got upset this afternoon after looking at the divorce law and called him just to talk to him... he said we didn't have to do anything legal right away. He again said he was sorry and when I said I wished there was something I could say or do he said I should not, it wasn't helping anything. <p>I know he loves me. I know he's attracted to me. I know I've done really good plan A for at least the last two months. I just don't have any idea what I should do now. Oh, and I'm invited to have dinner with his family on Father's Day - do I go or not?<p>Please help!!<p>[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]</p>

Boy Jelly, sounds like you are really hurting right now. It is so tough to be strong when dealing with the fog. I don't know what to say about the plan-b yet. Sounds like he may make that decision for you. Have you tried just taking a break from everything? Getting some rest? Doing something fun? Just keep your chin up and hope for the best [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Hugs to you!
Layli

Hi Layli, thanks for the support. As you might guess, nothing really sounds fun right now. My stomach is in knots so I'm not eating much, and sleep doesn't come easily either (I'm seeing my Doc next week about something to help with that.) I'm going to a friend's house for a bit this evening so I'm not sitting at home alone.<p>The thing that gets me is that he seems so set on us being done... if it were a trial separation I'd feel more like I had a chance, but now I feel like I'm walking uphill pushing a huge boulder with something heavy strapped to my back....

Jelly,<p>Can you call the Harley's for some counseling? They can help you with a game plan - giving you the best possible chance at regaining your marriage, and at the very least, surviving this experience.<p>It definitely sounds like your H probably isn't done with you emotionally yet, but for now, just let him go.<p>((((hugs))))

Just remember the fog is thick and you are dealing with someone who doesn't know what he is doing. The affair is an addiction. Like drugs, alcohol or anything else.
Keep posting and do whatever you have to to keep taking care of you.
I've lost 20 pounds in 3 weeks. I understand the not eating part.
Hugs to you!
Layli

BrambleRose, I am not sure... I will check out the costs and such involved. Thanks for the suggestion.<p>Layli, I am sorry you are having such a hard time too. I have lost 50 pounds since December, and I'm sure I've dropped more in the last few days (not the way I wanted to lose more weight, but I need to, so I'm trying not to be too upset about it.) I am going to see my doctor on Thursday to ask her about something to help with the anxiety and the sleeping problems.<p>I screwed up more today... This morning I was laying in bed thinking that H had never really given me a fair chance to make this work. The whole time we were trying, he never let her go. I was getting angry, which felt better than hurt. I also was thinking that I needed to slow this down, it was going much faster than I was prepared for - there's no way I can make good decisions right now.<p>H called this morning to confirm time he was coming over to get some of his stuff. He said that he wasn't going to take as much of his stuff as he originally said. I told him that was fine, and that I wanted to talk to him about some ideas I had, and told him that this was moving way too fast for me. He picked up something from my voice that told him I was angry, and asked me about it. I said I wasn't really angry, just thinking about some things.<p>When he got here he came in and gave me a big hug and smiled (I was wearing a shirt he'd bought me years ago that I've never really been able to wear.) We decided to go out to lunch. We got in the car and he suggested that we start talking, so I told him I'd talked to our MC who said we were both going to be going through a range of emotions, and that I thought it would be best if we didn't make any big decisions right away. He agreed, and we agreed to put off any decisions for a month. Then I suggested that we take a break and not see each other for a couple of weeks. He agreed that was a good idea as well.<p>We sat down at the restaurant and as usual, I wasn't eating. H asks if it was a mistake to go to lunch, maybe we should have just talked at the house. He tells me I have to eat, and I just tell him how my stomach has not been happy. He says his isn't either. We talk about him coming over to the house while I'm at work to work on getting it ready to sell. I tell him that I thought it would be a better idea if he didn't do that, that during the two weeks I wanted him to get an idea of what it would be like to really be apart. He gets angry and says he thinks I'm trying to make him suffer. I tell him it has nothing to do with that, this is what he wants, I want him to see how it feels. At some point I told him how I felt about him not really giving me a fair chance and he got angry. He told me I had tunnel vision about the OW and then tried to tell me the doctor said she wasn't the problem. I replied that the doctor said she was part of the problem, and that I knew she wasn't the only one. This escalated into a fight, we wound up leaving the restaurant without eating much. <p>We get in the car to drive home and I am crying and I say "I can't do this." H starts saying stuff like, "fine, we'll just go home, I'll move my stuff back in, and you'll be happy, and I'll just suck it up" (or something like that.) I don't remember everything either one of us said, I remember him yelling at me and pounding on the steering wheel so hard that the horn stuck on until he hit it again. I tell him I'm not going to let him do that, and he tells me to shut up. <p>We get home and go inside, he turns on the TV and sits down and I go into the kitchen and sit staring at the floor. After a little while, he comes in to talk to me. He's calmed down a lot, apologizes for yelling at me and reacting the way he did to the things I said. He keeps apologizing for things being the way they are, and I'm crying. I ask him if he understands what I meant about not coming to the house, and he says he does, he apologized for his initial reaction to the suggestion. He says he'll just come over on Monday for a while to get some clothes and things, and if for some reason he needs something else, he'll let me know before he comes over.<p>I ask him to stay for a little while and try to "be normal" so we sit down and watch TV for a bit, and we chat and tell each other jokes, and it's nice. Then we wind up having SF! (which I initiated) - he says it's just SF, nothing more, doesn't want me to feel worse later (he actually said "if we split up" which I took as meaning he's not dead set on it being over), and I say that's fine. Afterwards he gathers up some things and leaves. It was hard to let him go, but I did. I walked out to the car with him and we hugged and kissed goodbye. <p>I'm thinking that the two weeks of no contact will help us each get some time to think about how we're feeling and what we want, and hopefully be some time for him to miss me. I'm afraid that he may be talking to OW again, but I wasn't going to ask. Am I doing the right thing now? I know I should have kept my mouth shut at the restaurant... ugh.<p>Any suggestions on things to do and how to get through these two weeks?

Hi JG,<p>U are fulfilling your H's ENs. If you go to a plan B, make it with a purpose. Right now your emotions are way out there easy target for the WS and OW to hit. You need to work on your defenses. <p>Read up on plan A/b. If you need links to some of those threads give a holler. My other 'puter is down so my links are all locked up for the momment but many other MBers have this info in their sig line. <p>This is the time for your to read and heal. Strengthen yourself and build your support groups. Your H has some anger issues but he does come around to partial senses. This is a good sign. I don't really see him gone yet but it is too early to tell for sure. <p>take care,
L.

Orchid, thanks for your reply. I am not sure I am really ready for plan B, but in a way, this two weeks of no contact will be telling. He's already called me once - last night, to tell me about a financial matter. He could have left the message on our home machine, but instead he called my cell phone when I didn't answer the house phone. He said he was sorry to bother me, and I said he wasn't. We had a short but cordial conversation. I'm trying not to read more into that phone call than I should, but I think it's interesting that he didn't just leave a message.<p>I am reading and reading and reading some more. I spent two hours at Barnes and Noble last night skimming through relationship books. I read things here every day now, and I will go back and review the plan A & B info.<p>Another potentially interesting development may be coming... I spoke to a friend this morning who is a close friend of my H. Friend's wife and I are close, she's the only one who really knew all along about my snooping. She has shown him the most recent email, and he is very upset with my H, but hasn't had a chance to talk with him yet. He has spoken with OW's H, and told him that I have information that he should see... I tried months ago to talk to OW's H and clue him in to what was going on, but he didn't want to hear it. OW's H and my H are also good friends, but I think that's not going to last once he sees this stuff. When OW and her H got together, she had left her previous boyfriend for him, and my friend pointed out to him that if she did this to get with him, it wouldn't be hard to see her doing it again. <p>I think OW's H has a right to know what was going on and see the emails if he wants to. They are already in the divorce process, though, so I hadn't contacted him because I didn't want to rub salt in his wounds. I am not sure what effect it's going to have on H once he finds out that her H knows. I am also hesitant to show these things to other friends who didn't believe me before, I am afraid it might ruin any chance I have of reconciling with H... but since the EA hasn't really been hit with the light of day, maybe now is the time...

Originally posted by Jelly Girl:
<strong>....I am not sure I am really ready for plan B, but in a way, this two weeks of no contact will be telling. </strong><p>Ok, but you can prepare yourself. <p><strong> He's already called me once - last night, ....He could have left the message on our home machine, but instead he called my cell phone when I didn't answer the house phone. He said he was sorry to bother me, and I said he wasn't...</strong><p>Next time? don't tell him what he doing or not doing. That really irritates a WS and many others also. <p><strong>I am reading and reading and reading some more. .....I read things here every day now, and I will go back and review the plan A & B info.[qb]<p>Good. <p>[qb]Another potentially interesting development may be coming... I spoke to a friend this morning who is a close friend of my H. Friend's wife and I are close, she's the only one who really knew all along about my snooping. She has shown him the most recent email, and he is very upset with my H, but hasn't had a chance to talk with him yet. He has spoken with OW's H, and told him that I have information that he should see... </strong> <p>Ok, now leave it in their hands. Stay out of it or your name will be tied to this mess whether or not you contribute more info. <p><strong> I tried months ago to talk to OW's H and clue him in to what was going on, but he didn't want to hear it. .......<p>[qb]I think OW's H has a right to know what was going on and see the emails if he wants to. They are already in the divorce process, though, so I hadn't contacted him because I didn't want to rub salt in his wounds. </strong><p>Maybe OW's H has a right to know or not, or maybe he already knows as much as he can handle. Not really up to you to decide. You have already found someone else to give Ow's H the info. Let it go. The details of what goes on in OW's house is really not your business. I know this hurts but it is true and the sooner you put this in your mind, the less stress you will have. (Tough love kinda info/advice)<p>
<strong>I am also hesitant to show these things to other friends who didn't believe me before, I am afraid it might ruin any chance I have of reconciling with H... but since the EA hasn't really been hit with the light of day, maybe now is the time...</strong><p>If you are hetsitant and the right people that can help know, then you don't need to tell. They will find out in time and some just can't handle that kind of info, others will get upset that you did not take them into your confidence, still others will offer support and some may just give their opinion that will upset you. Realize this and when it happens it is much easier to take. For those that I did tell, I prefaced it with the comments that what I was about to tell them was painful for me, I might cry and I appreciate if they would help me where they could, I would understand if they could not but in order for me to divulge any info, I needed to know they would respect my decisions and I would be willing to hear them out. I saw a few muffled faces (funny to look at while they held their tongues) but it worked!!! <p>Whether this will save your or not needs to be put aside for now. It is critical to get you on your feet, up in the saddle and riding or moving forward in your life again. The part about saving your M will need both of you together and he just has not caught up to you yet. So don't start that engine until all the parts and players are in place and the bad parts and players (OP) have been removed. <p>JMHO,
L.

Orchid,<p>Thanks for all your advice. Next time he calls (if he does) I will not say he's not bothering me.<p>Unfortunately, my friend already told OW's H to come to me if he wanted the info. So far I haven't heard from him. I am not going to worry about it - I've got enough to worry about without that.<p>Your preface when telling friends was a good one, I will probably do something like that. There are a few people who are very close to us who need to know the truth, and didn't believe me when I tried to tell them because she had gotten to them first with her lies - but she can't deny what is in print with her name signed to it. I am not going to mass publish the emails I have, just show them to a few people who I care about.<p>I am trying so hard to get on my feet... I have moments where I am as ok as I can be, and then others when I am sobbing and feeling that awful panic. I think about this all the time, even when I'm doing my best to distract myself. My house feels so empty and cold without him here, so I have been going out a lot, but that doesn't always help because I am by myself. Sometimes I feel so pathetic for being like this, but then I realize that my marriage is an integral part of my life, so how could I not be torn up when it looks like it may be over?<p>This week I plan to go to the gym a lot - maybe every night after work, spend some time with my brother and his wife, see if I can go visit friends in Atlanta for the weekend... keep busy with things that are good for me.

Got this email from my H this morning - he told me he was going to let me know when he was going to go by the house today... I'm thinking I need to maintain my silence for the two weeks we agreed upon... let him get a real taste of what it's like to not hear from me... what do you all think?<p>**************************************
G'morning,<p>I just wanted to drop you a line and tell you that I will prob go by the house around 12:30 -1:00 today. I do not anticipate getting much stuff. Maybe just some clothes and my hockey rig. Maybe [other hobby stuff]. Oh yeah and a frigging rubbermaid container so all my clothes dont have dog hair on them like everything else at [brother in law's] house.<p>I hope you are doing as well as you can be. If you
want, and I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good idea, My computer here at work has Yahoo
messanger. I am on as [WH] (It comes up when I open my E-mail.) If you would like to touch base, that is cool with me. If not, that is cool also.<p>EIther way I hope you are alright.
Ill Talk to you later,
Love,
[WH]
**************************************

If you've done a good solid plan A for the last 2 months -- then walk away for awhile and let him understand the true implications of his decisions.<p>If you've decided on no contact -- then have no contact.

Morning JG,<p>Ok well let him come over and get his stuff. Do you hvae to be there? I think working out at the gym is a great thing. Just watch out for yourself, you are in a vulnerable state. <p>Take a peek over at the JFO site and read up on Forgiver and Seahorse. Both are the BS with no children. Those girls have kept themselves busy in some interesting ways. One of the even went swimming wtih sharks!!! <p>Just to give you some ideas. Forgiver did a good plan A and Seahorse's H went from being real angry to being quite humane with her now. Both are still in stages of personal recovery but I know you will find their thoughts helpful. <p>Another good one to read about is Alostwife. She is young and spunky. <p>take care,
L.

Lexxxy, that's what I think too. I didn't respond and didn't get on messenger. As tough as it's going to be, I am going to stick to this two weeks of no contact. I know he hasn't really thought through how this is all going to be... hopefully this will help him face reality. Unfortunately, I think he's still in the fog.<p>Orchid, nope, I don't have to be there, and I'm sure he'll be done and gone by the time I get home from work and the gym. It will be very interesting to see what/how much stuff he decided to take. First it was most of his stuff, then all his clothes and sports equipment, now some clothes and some sports equipment. I will take a look at the posters you mentioned. <p>Thanks to everyone who has responded for their support!

Weird... H took basically what he said he was going to take - some clothes, his hockey gear, and a rubbermaid tub. He didn't take his other hobby stuff... which is very strange because I thought he was going to visit friends and to an activity that he'd need it for...<p>He left his sunglasses here, didn't use the computer at all (I guess now that he knows I'm a snooping guru he's afraid to touch it), and left the front door completely unlocked. He at least turned the alarm on. Seems like maybe he was in a hurry... <p>Not sure why this all seems so strange, either... for someone who thinks he's done, I would have thought he'd have taken more stuff...<p>Any FWHs around that can give their two cents on what they took and what they didn't when they left?

I don't have advice to offer. I'm still trying to work on a solid plan A. <p>Why does he need hockey gear in June? My h plays hockey, his is in the attic? <p>Good luck to you. I hope all works out.

Sue with hope,<p>Good luck with plan A. It's hard, but just do your best and don't beat yourself up too much when you make a mistake.<p>There is a summer adult hockey league here... he's not playing in that, but the local rinks also have pickup hockey games at least once a week, and he's a goalie, so he gets to play free. He says that sometimes when he's playing he can either put everything we're going through out of his head, or think really well...<p>Thanks, I hope things work out for you too.<p>[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]</p>

So I get this from H this morning-<p>**********************************
Hey,<p>Just wanted to drop you a note and let you know that, unless you do not want me to, I will come back over to the house on Thursday to mow the lawn. It was looking a little rough. Also I did not leave you my receipts but I did leave my sunglasses over there. Sorry on both counts..<p>Let me know if Thursday is a problem.<p>I hope you are doing alright. Sorry if this is
intrusive. I just wanted to let you know what is up...<p>Love,
H
**********************************<p>Argh! I am so tired of trying to interpret these things! Does he miss me? Is he just being nice? Do I reply? Help!!

Wow, Jelly...my thoughts are with you. I don't have any great advise but it sure sounds like a thick fog to me. I think his continued effort for contact says something.<p>Listen to your heart. If Plan B is what you think-then stick to it for the 2 weeks. <p>Personally, I am more of a Plan A til you die girl (Lostva is my hero). <p>Only you know what is best for you.

Hi Twinkles,<p>I wish I knew... I still feel like he needs to really know what it's like to have no contact with me... but I also didn't want him to keep coming to the house, even if I wasn't there. I want him to have a really good taste of what he thinks he wants.<p>I also think the contact means something... but not sure what. He might just be worried, or it might just be exactly what he's saying, I don't know. <p>Argh! Would somebody invent a mind reading machine already!