Hmm, I'm off topic on my own thread here [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>>>> That was about the time I was really settling in to my life and gaining "acceptance" that this was just the way it was going to be for a while. <<<<p>I hope this is what WW is doing... She's respecting my NC request, even though she's had a couple of "slips" [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I honestly in my heart believe she's trying to use this time to better herself and look inward. She admitted she's a wreck and acknowledges that something has to change. That encourages me.<p>>>> Meditation was GREAT for calming my mind. It gave me something else to focus on when I was burning out mentally. Also taking walks. <<<<p>IC/MC has encouraged her on these things. We (used to) run together regularly, and it was a great way to blow off steam. I expect she still does, I know I do.<p>>>> I had made some interesting realizations about relationships, and marriages and such that caused me to think that MAYBE hubby and I could have actually had a shot. <<<<p>Aagghh, I hope this is in WW's future as well...<p>>>> but I was comfortable where I was at because it felt TONS better than how I'd been when I was in "panic decision making" mode. So making NEW decisions about trying again was NOT in my plans. <<<<p>I've heard this expressed in several ways, including the fact that sometimes separation does allow the parties to "grow apart", never to meet back up. Of course, you had an excuse to have SOME contact (son). I'd like to think that my Plan A was done in a way that will provide enough positive energy to have "absence makes the heart grow fonder". I'd also like to think this - and this is something IC/MC pointed out, possibly from discussions with WW - and that's that if OM starts to become pushy now that I'm out of the picture, WW will NOT welcome it - she genuinely DOES want this time for herself to "heal". In that respect, I suspect my "getting the heck out of her way" is probably a very good thing - the total absence of pressure must seem far more attractive than the pressure having to go back and deal with OM must have (hopefully!). I know their contact has waned over the past 2 months, all on its own, prior to Plan B.<p>>>> Lack of contact did help. <<<<p>Can you elaborate a bit more? How so? Was it a different feeling from the earlier time when you did have more contact. I recall you talking about a time when you were able to "come and go" from your H's life in a way. Did the feeling of not having that affect you?<p>>>> The slow, painful realizations that come with divorce did help. And yes...my brain was EXTREMELY fed up (as was my hubby, and my friends and everyone else!!!) <<<<p>And I would assume something important here... that your hubby was not the needy, whiny type... right? That must have made a difference!<p>>>> I had friends and neighbors giving less than informed/educated advice (even my counselor)...plus plenty of enablers on message boards and such. But...I just kept seeking out answers...and eventually I could "see" what advice was "emotion based" and what was really based more on fact and reality. <<<<p>Yes, this is something I hope for my WW too. Her BF back home is a terrible role model. Her advice to WW is always suspect. I know she's encouraged her to "follow her heart" and leave me. BUT... I know that WW views her advice as suspect, just because BF's life has turned out badly. I think it also could force her to think more critically... E.g. her BF saying, "Oh, you'll be so happy with OM" and WW forced to ask herself "Am I really feeling so happy with OM right now??" (My honest guess is the answer is "no" - I have my evidence.)<p>>>> It was a long, painful process...but well worth it. <<<<p>This is the perspective I need to keep in mind... that there is an element of growth here, and I should "assume the best" until I'm "proven the worst" - i.e. that she's figuring this out, and not falling into OM's arms (but hey, even if she did do that, I'm still pretty confident he'd be tested and would fail).<p>>>> Does that help at all? <<<<p>Tremendously! I suspect it does for others reading this too.<p>>>> I know you've been out for a few weeks...but that's still REALLY new. I was out for a while before I really missed anything that my hubby contributed to my life. <<<<p>I agree, I have no expectations about what she's feeling towards me. I think she does miss me, but right now, I think she realizes she can't rush back to me just out of fear or guilt - she's got to WANT it.<p>>>> It just felt good to have some breathing room and to be a little independant. Stupid stuff like making a meal that was JUST FOR ME...and deciding to SKIP a meal if I wanted. <<<<p>I think she values this also. When we first moved to CA, she was here alone for about 3 weeks - big LB on my part, BTW. The timing was terrible, and was a major catalyst for the A. She really developed a sense of independence then. Of course, she also had me returning in a short time and talked to me on the phone daily. How times change.<p>>>> I guess I'm just trying to say, don't expect any HOBP right away (Head Outta Butt Popping). This will give her a chance to act like a grown up for a while and take care of herself...which will hopefully help to pull her out of this acting like a 4 year old phase. <<<<p>I hear you... I'm not rushing ahead with anything... thanks to the encouragement of others. I'm working on a "new level" of patience now! I'm fairly confident.<p>Thanks a million!

H4F,

Thanks for the insight of what could be rolling around in a WW's head.


Stay Strong!

">>> Lack of contact did help. <<<<p>Can you elaborate a bit more? How so? Was it a different feeling from the earlier time when you did have more contact. I recall you talking about a time when you were able to "come and go" from your H's life in a way. Did the feeling of not having that affect you?"<p>Less contact helped me really see what things my hubby actually did bring to my life. Although having my independance was fun at first, and very rewarding in a way...as the newness left it I began to remember why it is people get married in the first place! It's not JUST love...because we could love someone and still not live with them. It's also CONVIENENT! Having 2 people take on a household of responsibilities leaves much more time and money for leisure. It's also NICE having someone around to share your day with or make a meal for (I love to cook). Cooking for 1 SUCKED! And all I did was work and spend time with our son. As much as I enjoyed both...it was hardly a well rounded life. Dating was EXTREMELY far from my interests...I don't think too many people who've had a comfortable marriage look forward to the dating scene. I didn't anyway.<p>When I had the freedom to walk in and out of his life as I needed...I was having those "family" needs fulfilled. When those needs weren't fulfilled any more...I missed it very much.<p>Another thing being on my own really helped me to see was that many of the things I was frustrated about in our marriage...were just as much due to MY failures as they were to hubbies. Simple things like going out. I always wanted us to be more active, go more places, do different things. I blamed him for being boring because he never planned anything...but I came to realize, I never planned anything either. While I was really eager to do different things, I never actually did the work to plan something. Had I done that, I doubt very much hubby wouldn't have come along. He did do quite a bit more grumbling about "why can't we just stay home" and "why do we always have to spend money to do something". He doesn't EVEN complain anymore like that. I told him I want him to WANT to do things...and since we've started going places he finds he really does enjoy it. Anyway, I came to realize that what really looked greener on the other side of the fence was that I was hoping someone else could MAKE me happy by THEIR actions...instead of realizing I could be JUST AS HAPPY in the marriage I had just by taking on a bit more responsibility MYSELF!<p>Once I realized that...I started to look deeper at the OTHER life I had painted in my head too. While OM might have taken over in places my hubby had not...I saw that if I had a life with him I was going to have to become more responsible in OTHER places. Like financially. Hubby was always a tightwad...but that helped keep ME in check. OM likes to spend money, especially on electronic gadgets...and while I do too, and that was a big attraction...I also enjoy financial security. I think it would have become a big issue between us since I doubt I would have found nearly as much joy in gadget buying when I worried about whether or not we were over budget. Plus we might have come to fight over who gets to set up said gadget etc.. This way all remote controls and gadget fiddling is MINE ALLL MINE!!! WHAAA HAA HAAA HAAAAAAAAA!<p>Ooooh, sorry about that. I just really lose control when it comes to that stuff. Just ordered a new wireless weather station...but let's not get started.<p>">>> The slow, painful realizations that come with divorce did help. And yes...my brain was EXTREMELY fed up (as was my hubby, and my friends and everyone else!!!) <<<<p>And I would assume something important here... that your hubby was not the needy, whiny type... right? That must have made a difference!"<p>Hmmm...not sure how to answer that. When I told him I was moving out, he asked me who was going to cut his hair, who was going to cook him meals...would I still do those things for him? Would I help him find someone since I knew him best? That came across EXTREMELY needy and whiny to me. Hurt my feelings a great deal too. Once acceptance came for him, though, and with some time and proof on my part that I was NOT going to take our son from him life...he mellowed and went back to the guy I liked to be around. It's my opinion that the stronger, more emotional healthy someone is...the more attractive it is. OM started out that way and it was very attractive to me...by the end he was a HUGE emotional mess (for obvious reasons), but hubby had actually gained control and grown a bit!<p>Hubby never did a Plan A...if he had I'd bet it would've made a big difference in how long it took me to regain any trust or respect for him. I would say you're in a very good position because of your excellent Plan A and the length of it. She KNOWS that you have changed and grown.<p>So in conclusion I'd like to talk some more about my new wireless weather station....LOL!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Bump for Lostnconfussed.

Lost & Confused:

The insights that h4f is giving you are very special...

Remember, stay calm, in control of yourself, and be the best Dad you are capable of being. Let your W do all the D work...

That is how you stall.

Gib

Bump for Hope4best...

Well I was the veteran of the bunch here.

Married when I was almost 27.

Ironically my WW was 19 at the time. Hmmm perhaps women shouldn't be allowed to marry until they are 25 as a way of reducing adultery.

Okay just kidding before I get labeled a sexist pig....oink oink. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Bump for STBXWife

Just a thought...and I hope I'm not repeating something, as I didn't have the will to read the entire thread, just the first and last page.

I only see one flaw to this idea of women who marry young being more likely to have an A. What about my grandmother who married when she was 18, and my mother who married when she was 19? Neither of them, or a lot of other women in their era's, ever had A's. So, to say that it is strictly "genetic" in some ways, or solely related to age is "poor science". Other factors, like societal influences, have to be taken into consideration.

What has changed in how or what people expect from their marriages in the last three or four generations, that make 60% of both sexes more likely to have A's. Women working outside the home? Longer life spans? Viagra? Sex and the City?

While there may be clear trends, and age is one factor, it can't all be blamed just on age.

As a side note...my OW married her H, who was her HS sweetheart, when they were both about 19-20. She was 32 when we had our A. I, on the other hand, dated my wife for 4 years prior to M, and we were 23/24 when we married.

I guess the question that burns in my mind when I read this thread is this...Why is it that so many men/women feel like they can't or aren't allowed to change substantially and stay in their current relationship? Why do they feel like they have to change partners if what they feel the need for is major personal changes. Do people have affairs really because feel they've grown apart from their spouse, or because they want to grow or change and don't think their spouse will "allow" it or understand it?

Oscar

bump for graycloud

I noticed this too. i'm 24 and my H is 25 we've been together 10 years! maybe thats part of the problem that lead to this.. i dont know.

Totally. My WW and I are a perfect example. She got the bug real quick. Feeling like she is missing out etc. When the fun is over (kind of is already) it will hit her hard.

Fogman and I met at 17 + 18, married at 20 + 21. I never would dream of an A, although propositioned several times, saying "I am SOOOO married!" Fogman, on the other hand, says he "can't believe this happened to me". Some people just never grow up. We are now 37 + 38.

Oh man, I thought I was in a MLC when I had my A. I was 33, married when I was 23.

I'm going to get that book that h4f recommended earlier in this thread, looks like good reading!

There is something to this in our case.

My husband was 21 when we got married, and that is pretty young, but what really clinches it, is that he had just gotten out of prison .

In fact his parole ended the same day we got married.

His PO joked that he was out of one institution and into another.


He missed out on the teenage years of freedom b/c he was sitting in a jail cell, which was where he spent almost all his years from 12-20.

Maybe that is why he has felt so trapped.

He is free now, making up for lost time I guess.

Although the thread has wandered a bit.....

Thanks to h4f for the insight. Let's me know that maybe, just maybe, WW will figure out. But who am I kidding......

Very interesting observations about WWs and age.....

I'll throw my hat in as well.

I was 19, WW 16 when we met. We M'd at 24 and 21. Her first A began about 3 months into our M. I think she feels she too "had missed out on a lot." Of course she may or may not have graduated HS before me, now she graduates C in Dec. She had never been outside of the state before me. The list of places we've been is too long to type. She had a few "partners" before we met. Me? One. Once. I quit C to work so she could finish. I could go on. But I won't

But she missed out. Sheesh.

The thing that frightens me is this.... Judging from what I read on this thread, about the life cycle (of women). At my age, whether I stay M to WW or reM, I'll probably get to do this what.... two more times?

Joy.


Ethan

<small>[ July 23, 2004, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: thefurnitureman ]</small>

h4f:

gee, thanks a lot for bumping this! I'm even OLDER than I was when I last posted here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Why can't it be like "Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now!"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

double post sorry

<small>[ July 23, 2004, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by OtG:
<strong>

I guess the question that burns in my mind when I read this thread is this...Why is it that so many men/women feel like they can't or aren't allowed to change substantially and stay in their current relationship? Why do they feel like they have to change partners if what they feel the need for is major personal changes. Do people have affairs really because feel they've grown apart from their spouse, or because they want to grow or change and don't think their spouse will "allow" it or understand it?

Oscar </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After reading much information and trying to understand this tendency I've come up with this:
When people start out to change how they feel inside, instead of starting by making changes inside they look around them and decide changing external things is the first step. People think their feelings of inadequacy and frustration are due to their spouses, their jobs, their cars, their clothes, their homes....

The changes that will actually make the difference in achieving happiness are the changes we make to ourselves. Changing ourselves is MUCH harder than finding someone to make us feel good, this new feeling will not last, WHY? because if you still haven't made those internal changes eventually you reach the same inadequacy and frustration. Usually by this time you either give up or you go right back in the loop changing the things around you again instead of doing the hard work of changing YOU.

My W and I met in highschool, 15 and 16. We married at 22 and 23. I'm now 34 (35 in August) she is 33. I think my W is regressing, and I do recognize she missed out on alot. My W was the one who wanted children so early in life. We had our daughter before our wedding.

The most frustrating part of this is:
I always wanted my wife to come out of her shell, live a little and stop being such a mommy. I remember saying come on lets go out, lets have some fun, all she wanted to do was sit home on the couch. During our separation she got out and did somethings, traveled a little, tried her hand at performing, singing, she even did Apollo!! YAY!!

It really bothers me because I would have loved to see this side of her. Now that she's being more outgoing she's not sure if M life is what she wants. I agree with some earlier posts, I think my wife is afraid she can't be who she wants to be in a M. I understand what she means so to speak. If you go into a room of people who don't know you, you can be whoever you want to be, crazy, wild, outgoing, anything your heart desires, but if your spouse is sitting in the room they are a reminder that you are who you are.

I think she actually thinks I'm going to stand up and say "Hey what are you doing up on that stage? Who are you fooling and laugh.

What I'm having a hard time communicating to her is that I would be rooting for her the loudest. I find outgoing, free-spirited people to be very attractive, LIVE by all means, but LIVE in our M. Our M shouldn't have to die for you to LIVE. With parameters, negoitation and understanding the 2 CAN co-exist, the best of both worlds. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

double post sowwie