I know we're not supposed to personally attack people who post here, and usually if I don't have anything encouraging or constructive to say I just stay out of it.....But<p>Speaking as a FBS and FWS, I've gotta say that this "Tempted" guy and his posts filled with self-centered B.S. trying to justify his on-going affair make me want to throw up. <p>Nobody can be dumb enough to think that kissing and holding another woman is o.k. on ANY level. It's selfish and stupid.<p>Tempted, you can use every word in the English language, but there's NO WAY you can ever justify your feelings or actions with this woman.<p>Do your wife a favor...tell her who she's really married to. She doesn't deserve this.<p>at peace

Tempted:<p>Now, don't you be one of them hit and run posters that jumps on the forum, gets our bodily fluids a'flowin' and disappears again! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Tell us how you're doing. How you're feeling about what's been said here. How much you love your wife and family!<p>You have an opportunity to save TWO marriages from the pain of infidelity if you act NOW. Call within the next 10 minutes and receive a free...

I really appreciate the posts. The one from JR hit home. The talk about the fog also made some sense because that is what I feel like I am in. Someone asked me to figure out what is missing in my marriage and me. I gave it a lot of thought last night, and I can't come up with something concrete.
I am overall happy, sex life is good, good job, healthy. All of those things. I have had opportunites for affairs in the past, but have never been that kind of guy.
Then this woman walks into my life and it is like a long-lost love appeared. It makes no sense but it is like a soul mate or something. When I think about her, it is not about going to bed with her -- but about holding her hand and being tender and the love of being in love.
You all mentioned how things can spin very much out of control. I am listening carefully to what you are telling me. But if I don't put myself in that spot -- no nighttime meetings private, not seeing each other every day -- isn't that some kind of saftey net? Besides, it also takes to people to have an affair, and I know she does not want to take this beyond friendship. Once she even mentioned something about not doing things that would mess up our friendship.
I am not trying to be a lawyer here -- but it seems like a person can love two people at once -- love them differently
This woman is not the woman I would want to marry. But yet she fills something in my life. Isn't possible to enjoy that for what it is? People know we are friends, but we share something privately -- not sexual, but a deeper friendship

Hi tempted! Good to see you back! You are being very brave to share your feelings with us. I believe you will do the right thing. <p>I'd like to re-post what Estes said. Please read carefully, and let us know what you think about it, k? Thanks!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Dear Tempted,
It is a good thing that you found MB. Before you go any further in your relationship with this woman, please do some reading about infidelity on the main MB web site. I will put in some links for a quick tutorial. There are hours of reading available that will help you understand what the people who are trying to help you here are telling you. I am also adding a link to a thread by a man named mmseekingadvice. Your story sounds SO MUCH like his. <p>Tempted, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You are having an affair. It is called an emotional affair, and it is just as immoral and totally disrespectful to your wife and to your marriage vows as a physical affair. Whether or not you see it that way does not change the fact that what I am saying is true. <p>As others have asked you (and we would like to hear your truthful answer), would it be OK with you if your wife were behaving in exactly the same way you are with another man? Would you consider them just friends? He was just filling an empty spot in her life? Would you do the things you do with this woman in front of your mom, dad, pastor, wife, or kids? If you cannot answer a wholehearted "yes," then what you are doing is wrong no matter what you call it.<p>Please check these links and do some reading. Do yourself a favor and avoid all contact with this woman until you have spent a week here with the Harleys and the folks on this forum. Read with an open mind and learn about what a healthy marriage is really like. If we seem harsh, it is because we truly do know what we are talking about and want you to avoid a devastatingly painful experience. <p>Best wishes,
Estes<p>
Infidelity - by Dr. Harley <p>mmseekingadvice thread<p>Tempted, you can do a search for mmseekingadvice's posts by searching by his member number which is 16930. His posts start in February.
<hr></blockquote><p>Aren't you willing to take a few hours to read with an open mind? Would it be fair to read here for AS MANY hours as you have spent with this woman-friend?<p>The links in my signature line may help you as well.<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Ok, I am going to be honest. I am not sure if I could not have contact with this woman for that period of time. I really like her as a friend and would miss her

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>That is why I wondered if I am having a midlife crises. My life is good, marriage good and I find myself drawn to this woman. Not for a sexual reason, but something about her stirs something in my soul</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Tempted,<p>I have been there. I know what it is like to connect with someone emotionally. I know the pull that you are describing. Its like here you are going along in life, years and years pass and nothing. You meet people, and they are just that, people passing through your life. And then, WAM. You meet someone who is different. My OM always said that we just clicked. We really did. So, I have been there. And beyond.
I have been in a long term A with him that started out emotional. We had a special friendship that we allowed to progress to a physical affair which lasted for years. Getting out of that relationship has been one of hardest and painful experiences of my life.<p>I think you should seriously consider something that you said. You say that your life and marriage are good and that you are happy. Is this really true? Are you really fullfilled on all levels? I propose that if you were, this woman that you met, whom you find yourself drawn to, would not have the capability to stir anything in you. What do you call a good marriage and a happy life?

Tempted, you posted that you don't have the opportunity or time for an affair...if you have time to talk & touch in a car, you have the time.<p>You don't have a friendship, you have soon-to-be-lover.<p>You know this relationship with this woman "I love you" would not be ok with your wife. You have already started breaking your marital vows--to love, honor, cherish your wife. This relationship does none of that, is in fact the opposite of loving, honoring, cherishing, being faithful to your wife.<p>Are you familiar with the Christian concept that sin is thought word & deed? Please don't fool yourself that when you say you love this woman, stroked her leg, kissed her you have NO interest in having sex with her. <p>You are ruining your marriage. Right now, with just what you have done. You don't have the right to this fondling relationship while married.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am not sure if I could not have contact with this woman for that period of time. I really like her as a friend and would miss her <hr></blockquote><p>That is your indication that you are in trouble brother. <p>... and some people wonder WHY the Harley's say an affair is like an addiction... here's the proof.<p>And ... so you are saying... you're not willing to set aside a few hours to invest in YOURSELF and read on this web-site??? If WE're willing to invest our time in YOU, then YOU should be willing to invest some time and effort YOURSELF.<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

You want to run the "is it ok" test?<p>Ask your wife.<p>Ask her if its ok for you to "love" another woman.
Ask her if she minds you stroking her leg.
Ask her if she minds you being her confidant.
Ask her if she minds you kissing her now and then.
Ask her if its ok for you to hold her hand.<p>GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Are for real???

I will read all the stuff on the web. No question about that. CMiranda says exactly what I feel like. I was minding my own business and then circumstances brought me in contact with this woman and we did click. It is like no other connection I have felt in my life. But like I said, she is extremely busy and there are simply not enough hours in the day to have a full-blown affair even if both of us wanted that. I guess it is like a crush, she stirs something in me that I like feeling.
Yes, I would say I am happy in my marriage. It is typical in that there are ups and downs, but no real fighting, nothing we can't stand about the other. Nothing like that.
I would not have expected myself to be in this spot. If anything ever would have happened, I would have imagined myself feeling vulnerable to a one-night stand kind of thing. But I am not interested in the sexual component with her in any way.
I have kissed her on the lips once -- nothing long and passionate, just s kiss. Held her hand, stroked her cheek. But the feelings stir not in my crotch, but my heart

tempted:<p>"But if I don't put myself in that spot -- no nighttime meetings private, not seeing each other every day -- isn't that some kind of saftey net?"<p>No. End of discussion.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I will read all the stuff on the web. No question about that. <hr></blockquote><p>Yay you! Go for it! We'll be right here for ya to help you think through what you're actually reading! It's all up to YOU, brother! We can't do it for you.

I have to get going to work. I will read the stuff on the web site. I am being honest here: I want it all. I know that. I want to be married and I want my friend. But I am not stupid, and will listen to reason. The letter from CMiranda was excellent because she has been there and knows what this is like. This may sound abusurd, but a part of me will never love anyone like this woman. Yes it is: fantasy, unreal and all those things. But it seems like she is a part of me and we were destined to meet.
I am not a man suceptible to women, either. Not the kind of guy who falls over if a woman says hi to him. Ive been around the block. But this woman came out of nowhere.
If she was posting here, it might be a different story. She might not feel the things I feel. That is why I think we can remain friends. I am not looking for sex, she controls the situation and status quo is maintained.
Thanks again, everyone. I do read all the posts and think about them.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by J.R.:
Sure, it feels good today... but just you wait for what tomorrow brings...[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>This statement pretty much sums it all up. As time goes by and if you get more involved with her, it becomes harder and harder to end the relationship. What initially made you feel happy and alive, will make you feel torn and miserable. Unless of course, you are capable of leaving your heart at home, which from the sounds of it, you are not. You already state that you love this person. I know how hard it is to walk away from soemthing that feels so good right now. JR really summarized it best in one sentence. Tomorrows misery is guaranteed. Save yourself while you still can.

Tempted,
I'm new here also - haven't posted much. My H was involved in an EA with a co-worker - she ended it before anything physical at all happened. My H is still pining for her and what could have been - it is coming close to ruining our Marriage after almost 25 years. So yes - if you keep this "friendship" going and your W finds out it will devistate her whether you say it's sexual or not. If you have touched the ow in any way - you are being physical. Just telling this woman private things is a betrayal. Believe me I know.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>The letter from CMiranda was excellent because she has been there and knows what this is like. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I've been there, too (check my sig line). Heck, I even referred to the OM as my "soulmate" back then(Blech! Gag!). That's why I recognize self-centered justifying babble when I hear it. <p>Right will always be right, and wrong will always be wrong. Adultery - in your heart or in your bed - is wrong. You do not have a "friendship" with this woman, and you know it. That's an excuse, and those excuses will lead to tremendous pain. For EVERYONE. Believe me. <p>You think you're confused about this now? Go ahead and continue this "friendship"...it'll drag you and your wife straight to the pits of hell and back. I'll say it again, your wife DOESN'T deserve that.<p>I know I sound very harsh, but I'll to do anything I can to keep at least ONE person from feeling the intense pain and total devastation I felt as a young betrayed wife....and the pain and confusion I later caused myself as the betrayer. <p>Lori<p>Lori

Tempted,<p>I felt compelled to write you again. I am worried for you - not because you can't handle yourself but because you are doing what I did. I tried to predict the future with my other guy. I thought I knew what he felt. I thought I knew what would or wouldn't happen. My OM is the type that likes to figure it all out before it happens. We thought we were planning what we would or wouldn't do or feel. Love does not follow the rules and that was our problem. We broke them all. <p>There is a thread by DREAMLAND (I'm not sure how to add the link in here) but if you look around under General you will find it. He describes not the fog that many refer to it, but the love that really does cloud our life when we get involved with another person whom we begin to feel romantic love for. It becomes extremely difficult or impossible to feel that love for both our spouse and the other person. This will cause alot of hurt and problems in your life.<p>You remind me of myself when I first met my OM at work. If someone said all of the things the people here have said to you, I would have ignored them all. I certainly wasn't here looking for support. I didn't want any. I wanted him, even though I too didn't think it would become an intense,long term relationship. It was 6 months before it turned physical, once that happened, look out world. Frustration became a way of life, because I wanted more as time went on. We both did and it was not in our original plan. <p>Like you, I do not feel that I ever have or ever will again love anyone like I did my OM. I held onto that for along time and finally I asked myself, what was it getting me? I know it is true and I can not change how I feel or felt about him. However, I can change my actions. I can not let my love for him keep me stuck anymore. I can move on or I can stay stuck. I chose to move ahead and try to find the happiness that I deserve without him. Having it all feels good for a time, but it eventually goes bad, its only a matter of time. What is that saying?? Having your cake and eating to, eventually, it will go rotten inside you. (something like that). <p>I know you probably feel bombarded here. It is not an easy thing to do, to follow advice that you really don't want to face. I know you don't want to let her go. I dont want to see you end up like me although I'm not sure that there are any words that I have that will help save you from your feelings. <p>Its easy for some to read you the moral act and think that it will be enough to stop you. Being in the position that you are, those words bounce off your brain or your heart like a rubber ball. You are in love. Morality probably isn't going to keep you from further engaging in this EA that you have with her. Your wife and what you promised her or what she would accept is also not much of a deterrient. This is really about you and you alone at this point in time. You have to decide if you are willing to take the risk of being hurt and hurting both your wife and this other woman in your life.<p>The last thing I can say is that in my experience, even though neither of you intend to, hurting someone you love when you engage in an affair is inevitable. Like you, I also believe that we are destined to meet the people in our lives. There are lessons to be learned. You met this woman and now you are here seeking answers. Perhaps now that she is in your life, you can really think about why that is. What can this site offer you in terms of what it is that allowed you to click with her? I was like you and this guy just walked into my life and changed me. I let him in because I had needs that even I didn't know I had. I hadn't identified them. Is there an aspect of your marriage or yourself that needs to be changed? What does this woman bring to your relationship that your wife does not in your marraige? Is your wife capable of meeting the needs your friend does? Are you open to her? Do you even know what they are? <p>Just some things for you to consider. I want to help you as best that I can in realizing that things can get alot worse and this relationship can take off in directions even you can't predict.

Tempted,
I too am a BS and WS. I met the OM in the 5th separation from my H during his A.<p>I too was in control of that relationship, plus had already done an 18 month Plan A to save my marriage. All it took was one severely bad encounter with my H for me to take the leap from OM friendship to driving to his house one evening. I controlled the relationship, didn't intend to have an A, but kept putting myself in a situation where it was more and more likely to happen, just as your OW is.<p>She can choose to be "swept away" as easily as she can decide to keep the boundaries.<p>Of course you can say the OW can't drive to your house, but if she's crying and says "Drive to a [park/secluded place] I need you to hold me" what're ya gonna say/do if she, uh, mauls you? <p>Giving her control is the same as saying yes.

Hi Tempted,<p>Glad you came back. I think that part of you knows what you are doing is not right. Otherwise why would you be asking? I also believe that you really like this friend and was hoping that there was a way you could be faithful to your wife and keep the friendship. <p>Honestly I don't see how that is possible. There is no way you can predict what will happen in the future. <p>You said you didn't know if you could go a couple of weeks without seeing this woman. That is a warning sign. I go weeks without seeing my female friends without any difficutly. <p>Do you recall the situation I related to you about an acquaintance from my past. I wish I didn't have to cancel our last lunch plans knowing that I have no intention for rescheduling. I don't miss him in the way that I would miss my H if he left me. But, I do wish there was some other way. I know there is no otherway. Thinking thougths I should not be thinking about another man is not right. If I had not already started posting her regarding my M, I don't know if I would have recognized the danger in it so early. I'm glad I did. It makes it discontinuing contact very easy. He (my friend) is clueless that I was close to crossing the line. If I was not reading the books, links and posts that others have posted I may not have realized that I was thinking these things because my H is not filling needs that I have. With that knowledge, I turned my attention to my H, and he has now started filling those needs. I no longer have thoughts I should not have about my friend or any other male. This is the way it should be.

This is my first and last post here. Do not look for any understanding here-if you are married-you are married-god help if you talk to a friend of the opposite sex--I could not live like this-I have close friends who are male--my husband does not have a problem. And no I do not have any problems in my marriage. Good Luck