Hello...

My story is in one thread on A/B board.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001318

My WW is not ready for NC with the OM, however, she wants to call him today and tell him to 'back off' for a couple of months due to the pressure she is under. He is 'dissapointed' that she wont spend time with him after work. (awww, too bad..)

She loves me, and knows it will hurt her (and me) bad if she leaves me, but the OM makes her 'feel' like nothing ever has in her life.

The OM is a true cad, and part of WW sees that, as well as the fact that OM does not pay his child support and is in trouble with the courts over it. Unfortunately, love is blind, and WW focuses primarily on how OM makes her 'feel.'

My question for the WWs out there is how long, if ever, does it take for the infatuation/inlove feelings for the OM to wear off?

I am in a strong Plan A, she is still here at home, and willing to try with me, although she is unwilling to break off all contact with him. (They are co-workers as well. grrr)

I have expressed to her that although I won't get angry, I do not accept her contact with OM. She knows that this cannot go on indefinately. I won't be part of her 'harem.'

I resist attacking the OM, but she sometimes wants to know, 'as a friend,' what I think about OM or his actions. Sheesh. I tell her that I am uncomfortable attacking him since it is disrespectful to her, but I let her know in no uncertain terms that the OM is very bad news and that she should run like hell.

She is willing to talk to one of the Harleys, and I am going to set up a phone counseling session soon.

She is possibly willing to talk on the phone with another WW who has been where she is at, perhaps to reassure her that her feelings are normal/common, and will ease as time goes on.

Anyone, please advise...

Thanks!

Sad Tiger

sad

I dont think any one person can tell you what you want to know, each A is different and each person is different. I believe I have heard on here that withdrawel can take six months or more, But if she is having contact then she is not in withdrawl yet.

I think you have done well, not losing your cool. You should be happy about that. That will show your wife you are serious and work in your favor.
I wish I had a magic number for you, but I can not say how long it takes. Hang in there. You have been in plan A, maybe you should consider plan B untill she gets rid of him completely.

Oh yeah, I realize that Plan B is quite likely. I am just making sure that Plan A is taken to its fullest extent.

She knows she will have withdrawal, and that is why she is on the fence. It is tearing her up.

How the heck can I get the OM to LB her? I think he is starting to by putting pressure on her. I will remain light as a feather!

She wants to know when he will show his true colors. I have no answer for that for her.

I know how hard it is for her, I have been there, I do understand that , But ALL you can do is keep up a good plan A and I would bet, he is already LB ing just because she hasnt left you.. the more he fusses about you, she will start to get angry about his opinions of you. SO you ust keep it up.. I hope she knows how much you love her to want this to work.

I believe he has already shown his true colors.. she just hasnt figured it out yet...
when its over little things will pop in her head and she will think gee how dumb could I be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

She won't get through the withdrawl until she decides she's actually going to quit contact. Not TRY to quit contact...she's got to make a true decision to hold true to the vows she made and treat her marriage like a marriage. She can do many things to ensure NC. Have his number blocked, block his emails...you name it. If she writes the NC letter or strongly lets him know she means business and does not want to hear from him again he will have more incentive to stay away. These mushy, "I wanna work on my marriage and it's just so hard every time I hear your voice", conversations do not cut it.

If she doesn't make a major effort to ensure that NC is absolute...she will suffer a huge setbacks each and every time contact is resumed. If she can go a whole month with no contact, she'll be well on her way to a healthier state of mind. The first week is the worst...but it gets steadily better after that.

WW woke up this morning and said that my father spoke to her in her dreams. (!) Said that he seemed a bit mad, but told her that I loved her more than anyone else, and that if we had kids that I would make a great father. Wow!

Anyway, she did not call the OM this weekend, but she will see him today at work I assume. She says she will tell him to put his feelings on hold for 2 months so as to ease the pressure on her. He is clever, and may suppress his LBs. She says he is 'dissapointed' that they don't spend any time after work getting to know each other. (Come on dude, LB!!!!)

I was just on the phone with MB, and will have an appointment with Jennifer tonight. Wish us luck!

Asking him to put his feelings on hold for 2 months may ease the stress from your wife for a little while...but knowing he's waiting on the sidelines will not allow her to really get through withdrawl. That door has to be shut permanently. Recovery is not possible with an ongoing affair, and it's still an affair until it's ended.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Asking him to put his feelings on hold for 2 months may ease the stress from your wife for a little while...but knowing he's waiting on the sidelines will not allow her to really get through withdrawl. That door has to be shut permanently. Recovery is not possible with an ongoing affair, and it's still an affair until it's ended.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know. I know. She is not ready to totally break it off with him as of now. She is bigtime on the fence, therefore I am in Plan A rather than recovery.

I don't know how to 'educate' her on the value of NC without LBing her. I can only express my disapproval of contact with OM in a careful, loving manner. She still has 'intense feelings,' and my questions for you all have to do with how to educate without LBing, if at all possible.

Phone counseling with Jennifer tonight...

Lemme express to you how all WS's are different.

I am a FORMER WS and BS. I am divorced from my ex-H, was married 20 years. Neither of us did too well as winning back the other. My history is all over this board if you want it, but in a nutshell:

He cheated with three women in the late 80's. I turned 40 in 1998, had a full-fledged MLC and shoved my head so far up my butt that I couldn't see daylight, had an affair with a co-worker, and he "paid me back" with two more affairs. We divorced.

Okay, so let me tell you what he might have done to help our situation (besides the obvious: don't have affairs in revenge):

I wish he'd come down to my job, faced the OM and told him to LEAVE HIS WIFE ALONE. Yeah, I wish he'd threatened him. Instead he stalked us, him, and threatened him THROUGH me (as well as threatening me). Now, I *know* it isn't fair, that he didn't know it was a test (and I didn't mean it to be, but it's true, I was watching and waiting to see how important I was to him).

My point is that you CANNOT use ANY WS as a barometer regarding YOUR WS.

It's great that you're talking to Jennifer - best wishes with that.

Also, you're doing a bang-up job on Plan A!! Sounds like you have it all under control, and it's working.

I'd be happy to answer any further questions, and will look for your posts when I get back on a computer. I'm actually on vacation and had a few moments to check in. Your post touched me.

Good luck with your appointment tonight - and in SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sad Tiger, Ask her if she doesn't think that he already has shown his true colors? If he's not paying child support, that shows just what kind of person he is. Does she think he would be different with her? All he's doing now is playing a game with her that makes her feel good for the moment, but the game will end. The role he has in this game is not who he really is.

He is who he is, whether its with her or his ex. I believe that she knows this deep down. Maybe she ought to ask his ex how long it took before he showed his true colors to her. It will be the same.

You are making great progress if she has agreed to counseling. C

Thanks to all for your replies. It means so much to me.

new_beginning:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> wish he'd come down to my job, faced the OM and told him to LEAVE HIS WIFE ALONE. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did call OM at work once, and that rattled him. I told OM to leave her alone. I am afraid that if I actually got in his face, and it worked to scare him off, that my W would not get over *me* ending the A. I definately see your point, however, and still may have to confront the OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sounds like you have it all under control, and it's working. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't I wish! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Sometimes I can see my W through the fog, but it rolls back in. She ain't gone though!

firefly10:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If he's not paying child support, that shows just what kind of person he is. Does she think he would be different with her? All he's doing now is playing a game with her that makes her feel good for the moment, but the game will end. The role he has in this game is not who he really is.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me, I have tried my best to get this across to her. Even pulled up the court docket in Tulsa and showed her. He is like a rash on that system.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe she ought to ask his ex how long it took before he showed his true colors to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She actually (supposedly) *did* get in touch with the ex. The ex said that OM was a 'good guy.' I don't think that WW told the ex that she was married and having an EA with OM. I cannot believe the OM actually put her on the phone with the ex, I think it was a setup since what kind of ex says that a DEADBEAT DAD is a 'good guy?'

(Note 8/2002: WW admitted to me that she never did call the ex wife - fascinating...)

I asked WW to tell the OM that I was going to contact the OM's ex. She says he said 'I guess so...' but when I tell her I want to call, she gets very pissed and says that I want to do that for revenge. (Partly true, of course.)

Thanks for all your words of encouragement.

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: Sad Tiger ]</small>

Update:

Phone counseling with Jennifer was interesting and helpful, at least to me.

I asked Jennifer if she thought WW had had SI with OM. She said I wouldn't like her answer, and I got quite upset and cried for a while. WW came in the room, and was upset that I was upset. She got on the phone and asked Jennifer what she had done to upset "my husband." WW is so protective of me even now. I quickly said that it was me, that I was just upset about all of this and that I would be fine. A bit later, Jennifer wanted me to ask her about SI with us all on the phone. WW said no, they had not. I sometimes believe that I could take her back even if she had SI with him, but mostly I think I could not. That is the most painful thing I can imagine. Jennifer tried to equate the kissing I know they have done, and help me realize it is damn near if not *as* bad. I realize that, and am hanging in there.

WW said later that Jennifer as well as MB board was "brainwashing" - ha - funny fogese, no? WW has changed a bit for the better since, I think.

She says she is trying to 'forget' her feelings for the OM. All I said was that I respect her very real feelings, and that she should not try to forget them, just not to act on them for now. (Stalling for time, I guess.)

WW gave me the ultimate gift. She let me know what it is about the OM that attracted her. Turns out he is 'mushy,' like a woman. He is a poet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Oh boy, time to break out with some creativity. He is able to give her undivided attention, even with lots of distractions. Thank God for my Wonderful Wife. She has (probably knowingly) given me the areas to specifically work on. I told her that I really am mushy inside, but the mushy side gets socialized out of boys early on. I was not 'mushy' at all before I met her. I thought I got DAMN mushy after I met her. I explained that if I get a bit more mushy, it is really me, and not a fake attempt to keep her, but just me allowing the real me to get out. The attention thing is extremely difficult for me as I am sooo easily distracted. I am consciously working on it, but not overdoing it. Slowly, slowly.

Our unofficial anniversary is July 4th, and she got all 4 days off. She has been working 6 day weeks for months now, (no doubt helping her get closer to the OM) and it was a very relaxing, fun weekend for her she says. It was for me too.

Only one rough point. She went to her mother's house to get some stuff on Friday. She didn't want me to go. (oh-oh) I dreamed on Friday night that she called OM during her errand. I snooped, and found that she did call the OM. I didn't tell her I snooped, but on Sunday, I told her of the dream. I asked her when the last time she called him was, and her answer was a harsh, "I don't remember." I told her that that was all the answer I needed, not harshly, and left the bedroom and went into my study for 15 minutes to cry softly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I got it together, and she came in and admitted calling him to tell him to cool it, that she is working on the marriage. (Not NC, but I'll take it...) I told her she could call anyone she wanted, and I didn't have the right to tell her who she could talk to. She said, "Yes you do." We hugged, and finished of the otherwise wonderful weekend happily.

She went back to work on Monday, got a kiss goodbye, and she came home in a great mood and we had an uneventful, no problem evening.

I have read every book in sight, SAA, Love Must Be Tough, Make Up - Don't Break Up, Winning Your Wife Back Before It Is Too Late, Staying Close, When Love Dies, How Could You Do That, Mars - Venus... I have done something every day to make myself more attractive to her. I have been reading the divorcebusting.com site some. I work out, get a little sun, try to eat alot and gain back my weight. I stay happy, 'act as if' everything is fine, no matter what she does. Listen empathetically. All this stuff gets to be a habit. She ain't left yet!!!

Next phone counseling with Jennifer on Thursday.

Thanks for all your replies!!!

Sad Tiger

Things have been going fine, no LBs, until today. I picked WW up from work to go to the Dr.

Taking WW back to the office, I was a bit miffed that she didn't ask for help with the additional stress she is having from work and this A. She believes that she doesn't need any medicine now, and that it is a last resort. I told her that I thought that she needed some help with the stress. Pulling up to her building, I told her that she should listen to the people who love her, not the people in 'that building.' I told her that noone in that building loves her. (OM works there.) <Kicking self for this LB all afternoon>

Would someone please tell me that this is not that bad?? Is it that bad?? I have been good for days and days now...

What can I say to her when she gets home? I am thinking that I should tell her that I was wrong to try to control her behavior, and that I am sorry and will try my best not to do it again.

Feeling pretty stupid and down right now...

Sad Tiger

ST - Glad to hear things are going ok. I think tonight I would wait to see what WW's mood/tone is. Then decide what you want to say. If she seems really bothered by what you said, then an apology may help defuse it. I would also add to your statements, "I just worry and care about you." Then again, she may be fine, having possibly realized on her own that the fact that you worry and care about her is what prompted your comment. Maybe a hug, I love you, and a hope you are feeling ok would do wonders. In any event, I wish you lots of luck tonight. Don't beat yourself up too much. If it really upset her, I think it's something that may be rather easy to defuse and set back on track. You are doing a great job. Take care.

Thanks, Tutter...

I am off to fetch the little lady now...

Wish me luck!

Tiger is a bit Sadder than usual now...

We both went to IC today. My C agrees with my Plan A. WWs went ok, I suppose.

Unfortunately, I had to hear her say 'I am madly in love with him' twice tonight. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I wondered aloud how any woman could like a man who woos a married woman and does not pay his child support. She said something about if they could see what he looks like they would. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
I got a bit upset, and she said quickly that that doesn't mean she thinks he is better looking than me. Oh well....

She also said that she has feelings for him she could never have for me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
At least she qualified that one with 'right now.'
I also pointed out that she has feelings for me that she could never have for him, and she agreed.

I am hinting at moving on with my life, with or without her.

This all sucks. She made major withdrawals from my LB tonight. I told her my love for her was slowly dying.

At least we had a snuggle before she went to sleep.

I suppose tomorrow is another day, and I will feel differently, but that madly in love comment will really play in my head for a while. I knew it, but she hadn't really said it. It really hurts. How can she love such a loser??? I really want to confront him, but I know I shouldn't.

ST

Tiger,
I am a FWW and can understand where she is coming from. I had a very hard time breaking away from my OM. And I'm still plagued with thoughts of him and it has been over a year since I finally broke it off. I sat on that fence for almost a year before the OM pushed so hard I feel back in my own yard. But it hurt like everything.

And yes that fog is very thick. So thick that it's hard to see the truth under your nose.
I felt that being with the OM was the best thing I could do for myself, that I deserved some happiness at any cost. But the cost of losing everything I held dear in my family was just too high a price for me to pay.
I'm not sure how I could help her, but I can relate to what she is feeling.
Are you all in Tulsa, OK? I leave an hour north of there in Coffeyville, KS.
my email is deblynne_45@yahoo, if you or her want to write me and ask anything else.
I would be happy to help you get your marriage back or to just talk to her about her feelings.
they are very real and it's very tough to get over.
Debbie

do you think your wife would talk to me?
debbie

Yes, I think she would.

I let her read my last post and your reply. She saw me send the e-mail to you. Did you get it?

I just called her at work to ask about dinner plans. She sounded serious, and said she has something to tell me when she gets home. I had a strong uncontrollable physical reaction, gagging, nearly throwing up, and managed to choke out OK. I called her back quickly and asked her to let me know what to expect. She said 'nothing bad.' So, who knows? I fear the worst. ('I picked him.' 'I am moving back out.') Hopefully won't be 'bad,' but I am really apprehensive now. I had just gotten myself in a good mood too... I like real roller coasters, but this one is too intense! Can someone please stop this ride now???

Super Sad Tiger

Sad Tiger,

I know that DLM has offered to talk with your wife, but if she needs anyone else to talk to she/you can e-mail me. My e-mail address is jltddt@hotmail.com I am a FWW and I felt exactly how your wife feels now and no one was going to change my mind. Good luck tonight.

DU