I'll fill out the form or call tomorrow.

No fussyputtin' around no more!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Spacecase, YOur wife and your family and you are in my prayers. I am so sorry that this is still going on... I do still believe plan a is good for you... keep it up... do not confront her when she comes home... let her be the one doing the evil charade.... ? OK? I did not read all of your last few days posts.. but caught up on the end here...

I think this trip has really pushed you down... aghh! I know what you mean.. my h has done a few things as of late to diminish my hope and belief in him more and more...

We bs's do start to give up... but just have that belief that things will be ok... belief can do wonders. Act as if things are ok when she returns... I would not say a word... remember plan a does not include converstaions about the A...

Every time I mention his adultery... the converstaion goes downhill... he leaves... he gets off the phone, etc.

It is bad to have a walkaway ws... who certainly cant face whta they are doing to their family.

she is doing it to the kids too! how sad.

I think with time... you will prove yourself a gem to her and her actions and feelings will return love and trust to you... she is just in this thing.... agh...unless I missed something here... she doesnt plan on leaving you.

Hugs and patience.... give it time.

honey

I went to the movies with my younger son tonight, and I was kind of daydreaming during the drive back....

I envisioned this scene; I pick up my W from the airport (tomorrow) and she's very happy to see me, with a skip in her step. We're in the car and she says; "I have something to tell you, but promise we'll not talk about it any more today, since we have to pick your dad up."
I say "OK.."
Then she says; "I really ended it this time."
I'm stunned. I smile, turn to look at her and say; "Really? This is the best news you could ever give me! I'm.........happy!"
She says; "I thought you'd be. I'm very happy."
Then I say; "Well, I'm really glad you told me this, because I have know for several days that you had not ended contact and you were going to see him on Thursday, and I wasn't sure what I was going to do to keep that inside until next week. I love you!"
She says; "You knew?!?!?!..."
And I say; "Yes, I knew. But let's not talk about this any more right now...I love you! Welcome home!"

Too good to be true, right? Yeah; that's what I said to myself too. But one CAN have daydreams, right!?!?!

Goodnight everyone!

Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Hi CSue!
WW comes home Sunday; I'm not too happy though, the joy, ILYs and niceness of the first couple of days of her trip were totally absent today. Dry, matter-of-fact, and no ILY, not even a "me too" after I said it...I won't even TRY to figure this out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How bizarre; after her enthusiasm about all the wonderful notes you left her.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
My dad is visiting all next week, and that'll make ANY kind of interaction difficult until he's gone next Saturday (week from tomorrow).

I have an apptmt w/Steve on Tues which I will do by myself, probably from the car with my dad...so we can discuss recent events, confrontation, strategy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Space, so your dad knows; but your WW doesn't know he knows? I am glad your dad knows. I am sure he will be tremendous support.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
What I think we need to do is to confront her with the evidence of continued contact and her visit there this week, and see if we can get a confession/decision to end it/comittment to rebuild. IF we can, and I sincerely doubt it, then I'd go with her to the MB Weekend.

IF she doesn't, I'm pretty sure it'd be time for Plan B for me, and I don't see how we could do the MB weekend. I certainly do no want to go to that unless she's at least committed to ending/NC/rebuilding.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds like a very solid strategy.

Otherwise, what's the point? I mean what's the point of Cing w/Steve if she's still lying even to him and continues contact? What's real about what she says/does? What is her level of commitment? I think it's pretty worthless if all she's doing is to "play along" with no real "meat" behind her words and actions. Steve had told her "You know that if you're still lying that will be your downfall" and she said "I know"...well, she has been, and now we have evidence...wish it weren't so.

Don't know what Steve will say, but I'll tell you; I will strongly resist any further delay to a confrontation and going to the MB weekend w/o "real" committment from her.

Thoughts?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Space, I can find no arguement with your plan. You have Plan A'd better than most on these boards. I will be interested to hear what SH has to say about all of this. CSue

Space,

I like your daydream....and you know it says alot about you that you can have this type of daydream. Because I think if you can't dream it; it's hard to make it a reality.

When I read your's and 2long's posts on top of my own situation; it seems even more difficult to understand the thought process of WS. It just keeps spelling ADDICTION.

I am fortunate in that my H is not addicted to the OW; however this weekend I did have to listen to how badly he feels for her because he ended contact so abruptly with a short "no-contact" note that he hastily put together right after d-day. He talked about her losses; (meaning him, personally and professionally); and that because the A ended 4 years ago and they've had continued contact ever since the end of the A (including housecalls)it was rather terse of him to end any further contact. He is sure she was hurt by this.

I practiced deep breathing during this speech of his because it is what SH has trained me to do...follow my plan to meet H's need for Openness and Honesty, by being a safe person for him to talk to even/especially about this.

You know I really don't know how you and 2long do this. It's so very hard enough with WH having ended his A. And here you guys are being so courageous; trying to save your M's and your families and save your children the devastation of DV. I admire you both tremendously.

CSue

Thanks for dropping by, CSue.

The hardest part at this stage of the process is that I waver between wanting to do everything possible to save my M, and feeling like there aren't enough reasons to actually do so. Thinking about and "seeing" all that has happened to bring us to this point makes me wonder if I really want to.

CSue:

"You know I really don't know how you and 2long do this. It's so very hard enough with WH having ended his A. And here you guys are being so courageous; trying to save your M's and your families and save your children the devastation of DV. I admire you both tremendously. "

I appreciate the admiration, CSue, but there are times, like right now, when I wonder what the he!! I'm doing. In the end, though, I just remember the huge pile of memories and family that we've built over the past 28 years together, and how unconscionable it would be NOT to try to save that. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

SC:

I liked your daydream too. And I've had many of them myself in just the last couple days. Remember what H4F told me, though.

It's okay to HOPE, just don't EXPECT.

I have to check my expectations all the time.

thinking of you... hope the pick up at the airport goes well... just keep acting as if things are ok... dont confront her yet... OK? I really think this is so cru cial.... - I need to follow my own advice space.

But... seriously... if I do not mention the maid etc. H and I can have nice times and go out and actually rebuild our marriage some... which is wonderful. Now when I mention the bshi+ then things spiral down and he may go back to his bshi_ in order to feel happy and OK... since there is no peace with me... just confrontation and misery... since he is an escapist... !!!

Take xtra care of you so you can make it through this...

What mo vie did you and the kids see. I am so sorry you will not make our lunch... you are going out of town still>?

take care of you, ok?

Honey

OMG, LOL!! I was just going to say that...you took the words...quite literally...out of my mouth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know you can't keep from hoping and daydreaming...the problem is that if the encounter turns out to be much colder (or worse) than that...the disappointment is almost WORSE because you HOPED for something beautiful.

However, on the other hand....anything is possible. That very scenario you painted sounds EXACTLY like something I would have done. Tell the H I ended it...but regress and resume contact...then figure out that LO AND BEHOLD, I actually love H very much...so I decide this just HAS TO END. But, OM is a long time friend (which mine was too) so I can't just do it by phone...it needs to be done right so that my concience can feel clear that I didn't just use and drop him. I feel I HAVE to keep hubby out of the loop on this one, since he thinks it was done LAST TIME. So I go there....end it...and feel GREAT that I DID IT! But then the high diminishes....the enourmous pain and guilt take over. ETC..... I can totally see your scenario as a possibility. But obviously...there are many other possibilities as well. Don't drive yourself crazy trying to guess them all to prepare yourself (I do this all the time!!!).

Hello Spacecase,

I'm jumping in with an opinion about the MB trip....

I would definitely go (unless your WS backs out).

One reason I would go is her change in attitude from the beginning of her trip (when she was finding all those notes from you) to her attitude later after getting doses of contact with OP. I think that even if she knows right now that she wants the M, she will need mega doses of positive rebuilding stuff for her to have a chance to put OP out of the picture. The MB trip might be able to do what is too much for you to do by yourself.

Another reason I would go on the trip is that it could show you, once and for all, if there is just no way to get through to her at this particular time. Then you would have the information you need to be able to make decisions for yourself on what you can do and need to do for you to get through this time.

The last reason I would go might be revenge-motivated. Even though I know that MB principles do not include revenge of any kind, I just can't help it. The revenge would be that WS would discover the type of wonderful relationship you will have in your life--with her or without her--and if she chooses to continue with what she is doing it will be without her, and she will KNOW what she is living without for the rest of her life.

This is just my opinion about the trip.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YetAgain:
<strong>Hello Spacecase,

I'm jumping in with an opinion about the MB trip....

I would definitely go (unless your WS backs out).

One reason I would go is her change in attitude from the beginning of her trip (when she was finding all those notes from you) to her attitude later after getting doses of contact with OP. I think that even if she knows right now that she wants the M, she will need mega doses of positive rebuilding stuff for her to have a chance to put OP out of the picture. The MB trip might be able to do what is too much for you to do by yourself.

Another reason I would go on the trip is that it could show you, once and for all, if there is just no way to get through to her at this particular time. Then you would have the information you need to be able to make decisions for yourself on what you can do and need to do for you to get through this time.

The last reason I would go might be revenge-motivated. Even though I know that MB principles do not include revenge of any kind, I just can't help it. The revenge would be that WS would discover the type of wonderful relationship you will have in your life--with her or without her--and if she chooses to continue with what she is doing it will be without her, and she will KNOW what she is living without for the rest of her life.

This is just my opinion about the trip.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YA; you make a compelling argument. I will discuss this with Steve on Tuesday. Thank you!

My W is back, obviously my "daydream" conversation did not take place, although we were both civil, it was barely more than that.

I find myself having to watch EVERY word I say, every gesture, every movement. Because I am very close to the boiling point. The anger and resentment are very, very close to the surface, and almost anything she says or does "rubs me the wrong way".

That's why this has to be brought to a conclusion pretty quickly...my self-control is close to being gone.

SC:

I don't want to influence your decision in any way, but what you describe is EXACTLY how I felt talking to my W, from the "private email account for Rat Meat" admission to the clone argument, after which I left the house. There came a point that NOTHING I could say would get me anything less than a rebuke from my W. I had to go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>SC:

I don't want to influence your decision in any way, but what you describe is EXACTLY how I felt talking to my W, from the "private email account for Rat Meat" admission to the clone argument, after which I left the house. There came a point that NOTHING I could say would get me anything less than a rebuke from my W. I had to go.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, 2L, I know. That is why I need to confront ASAP, hope we have done enough (Steve and I) for her to be ready to make the right move, and if not, it REALLY is time for Plan B...I simply cannot continue to Plan A any longer while I know the A is active and being flaunted to my face daily. It really is time.

The triggers are too many and too often, almost anything she says is "grating", if I don't get relief soon, I will end up blowing all these months of very hard and painful work I've done.

I've come as far as I am physically able to come, done as much as my fragile emotions allow me to do, waited FAR more that I ever thought possible, and given so much that I'm almost empty. It really is time.

I'm not sure at all what is going on here...my W has been cordial, but distant. Her kisses have been very perfunctory, she did hug me for longer than usual last night, though...not getting any clear signals.

Now we DO have my father and step-mother visiting, so obviously this is not the most "normal" environment, and I have been quite busy with dad...

But I get the feeling there's something she's wanting to say to me. Should I ask her?

Also, I had a "disturbing" dream last night; I was looking at my W's PDA and there was an entry for November 10-11 that said "you & me, out"...

Well, maybe you should ask her very gently: "Dear, you feeling alright?" if she says "Yes, why?" you can answer "Oh, just wondering, you seem as if you wanted to talk to me but weren't sure you could. i just wanted to let you know I am here, ok?" Then if she allows you you can hug her and give her a kiss, and go back to get busy with something else. If she needs you, she'll go get you.

The dream sounds... weird. Maybe the "you & me, out" Means "You and I need to get out and talk", that is what it sounds to me. The date... is weird, my dreams are normally very detailed, with dates, years, times, kinda creepy sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SpaceCase,
Just wanted to say hey & wish you luck!
She is in a fog & knows not what she wants perhaps.
You have done well & you should make it a priority to watch out for your own happiness! These things are on her now --
Peace, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

Personally, I like it when Mr. Pepper asks me this question ...
Is there anything I can do for you today Pepper?"

I am free to go any which way I choose with that offer. (And, it doesn't make it sound as though I've been behaving in a *certain way*)

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I get the feeling there's something she's wanting to say to me. Should I ask her? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO, yes, ask because
1) it gives her an opportunity to be honest - your not setting her up for failure with this big confrontation with Steve - your giving her a chance to come to you. Tell her, she can tell you anything. You love her and you are here for her. If she chooses NOT to say anything then definately wait for Steve. But give her choices.

2) it gives you a chance to relieve the pressure cooker. I think if you stuff your feelings too long, you will blow. You opening up to her just by asking if there is anything she wants to talk about will relieve some of that pressure from you of holding that ugly secret in you.