Okay the last post was a joke!

I also like to think of it as YET ANOTHER opportunity for her to come forward with the truth.

I'm on your side and the side of your marriage. Good luck in the a.m.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by I LuvNprotect ME:
<strong>Your making withdrawals from my account SC!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yowch! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by I LuvNprotect ME:
<strong>Okay the last post was a joke!

I also like to think of it as YET ANOTHER opportunity for her to come forward with the truth.

I'm on your side and the side of your marriage. Good luck in the a.m.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks ILuv...don't worry, we'll beat her up yet! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She gonna' PAY!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It's awfully quiet out there....

....perhaps TOO quiet!

SC, how are you doing?

I was busy.....

Perhaps a few of you are still interested in Spacecase's saga, although I see that clearly, 2Long has definitely taken the lead and most of the attention! ;-)

I had the "chat" with my W over lunch, and I think it went pretty well. I told her I loved her very much, and that I hoped she was feeling this, and that I just had something I needed to bring out in the open. She said OK, so I went on to tell her I knew that she had not yet ended the relationship, and that she was still in contact with the OM, and what her plans were going forward.

She made a couple of feeble attempts to deny this, but I countered with 2-3 key points that I could not have known had I not heard her calls with the OM, and she backed off from that.

I told her I'd gotten confirmation of my suspicions 2 days before her last trip, and that I'd held it in until today, but that I just needed to talk about this. I think this got to her a bit, because I've been quite nice, loving and even bought her flowers this morning. Perhaps this is the first time she has felt "safe" with me knowing of the OM and contact when she can clearly see I was not freaking or going ballistic.

She was OK, I mean she didn't freak out or scream, and I'd been as calm and soothing as I possibly could. And she said "what are your plans?". I said that depended on what she wanted to do, that the 11 months I've been here since DDay should tell her what I want to do and accomplish. I said I understood all of this better than she thought, and I accepted what she was feeling and doing, and that even so, here I still am, trying to find a way to fix this.

She started on her usual tirades, that no matter what, it was always going to be her fault, it was SHE who had done this, and that it would always be her fault. I said I understood that she felt this way, but that this was NOT about who's fault it was or about blame or punishment; it is about finding a way PAST those things and towards a relationship that is fulfilling to both of us. That we had come as far as we could come while she was still emotionally attached elsewhere, that this prevented her from doing all she could, in the same way that my pain and hurt were preventing me from moving forward as far as I'd like to.

Then she went on about us having discussed my feelings a lot , but not hers. I asked her if she was sure about this? After all, here I was 11 months after DDay, still trying, and over this time I'd admitted to my failings and how sorry I was about them at least a dozen times. I also said that I felt that many times when we DID discuss her feelings, we'd reach a point where we were touching subjects she DID NOT want to touch, so how could we attempt to discuss and change those?

Then she said that she didn't feel like I'd done everything I could, that my life wasn't all put together again. And I said she was right. That in the same way that she had not moved forward more on this because of her fears and hurt, I too was unable to make all the changes we needed because of my pain and hurt.

Throughout all this she's interspersing "I never meant to hurt you", and "I never menat for this to happen, It's not like I planned it" and other such statements.

I then said look, I understand the problems and the feelings, I also understand the impediments we've run into, but if we stay there, we're going nowhere. What do you think we need to do? She never did answer this question, kept deflecting it and getting into what the problems were.

I suggested we should discuss this with Steve on Tuesday. She said "No; I think you and I need to discuss it, not Steve." And I said, sure, you and I can discuss it, but we need help, we need a professional to help us, and Steve is the best we've had.

Then she said we should cancel the MB weekend, that we weren't ready for that yet. I agreed. I said I'd been trying tobelieve and trying to find a way, but that until we agree on certain things and a plan, it makes no sense to go to that; we can go anytime.

Then she said look, I can't be someone I'm not. I can't be exactly what the books say I should be. And I said of course not; neither can I. It's really about having guidelines and negotiating a middle ground. Everyone is different and everyone's situation and personalities are different. Then she said, are you willing to understand that? that I can't be exactly what the book says? And I said yes. If we both stay where we are now, we're far apart, if we both give a little and take a little, we can meet halfway, and Steve can help us do this, he's not a zealot. He understands that these things have to be adjusted for each case.

She didn't outright agree, but didn't say no either.

SOOOOOOO.....my initial thoughts are:
1. She knows I've known about ongoing contact since before her trip and I have not freaked or anything like that. Probably good. Maybe it'll make her feel safer about talking about it?

2. She did not end the conversation with her screaming denials and invasion of privacy thing. I stopped that every time she tried to start it with a tidbit that I knew.

3. She reluctantly dropped all her counter-arguments when I disarmed them. Not a clear, total victory, but certainly progress and leaving the door open to negotiation.

4. She'll probably want to discuss this more with me, and it looks like she'll attend the session with Steve on Tuesday.

Any thoughts?

Can you cook?

Prepare a delicious wonderful dinner with candles and music.

That's my thought for now.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Prepare a delicious wonderful dinner with candles and music.

That's my thought for now.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can kinda' cook....but I can take her to a nice restaurant....what's on your mind?

Space...

Well it was great there was no screaming or yelling of any kind. You kept your cool, so did a wonderful, amazing job!

She was caught off guard, with nothing to throw back at you, not even yelling that she could do. Very good!

BUT, by the same reason, you should be very very careful. She may have gotten caught off guard, but there may me a backlash, and she may come back angry at you out of the blue talking about privacy, in which case you have to still be prepared and alert for anything.

When WS's say nothing neither agree or disagree it is better to assume they are disagreeing, so you don't build too much hopes out of nothing.

I agree with Pepper a nice dinner would be nice. But don't let your guard down at any moment. No matter what she does, DON'T. When some women get caught they'll try to sweet talk their way out of things if they cannot argue. Sweet talk and sometimes SF too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Some more thoughts ... whistle today around the house. Or, if you're not a good whistler ... hum or sing.

Be happy.

Be comfortable.

Remain calm. (Boy, you're good)

Take on a very Cary Grant-ish attitude.

You are self-assured. You feel wonderful. You wear a handsome smile. You may even dance a little.

P

Thanks ALW, I think you're right.

I've learned not to be overly enthusiastic or over-expectant through all of this. I know there will still be battles.

I think that over the next few days, as it really sinks in that I know and have known about contact, and have not reacted, .... well, I actually have no idea WHAT that will mean to her...maybe that I AM sincere in what I say and that she can start dropping this notion that I'm out to hurt and punish?

I'm not sure if this went well or not. I think it went pretty well, but of course she's not committed to ending it or NC or anything as dramatic as that...so she may just have been caught off guard, as you said, and mught come back with a vengeance...don't have a clue!

Space: "What's on your mind?"

.......exactly! This is what she will be wondering about YOU! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do what Pepper says, keep your cool, act casual and carefree.

What I think is that she really was trying to figure out all the info. You were not mad, you were not yelling, but still you had the complete clandestine contact over the table. My oh my that must have been a knock out for her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I read again her answers, how she kept right on insisting it was all going to be over her head forever, blah blah blah. Fog fog fog. Why? because she was trying to tell herself "He is mad at me, he is about to yell at me, he is going to start getting pissed". Why? because she needs a way to release guilt. "he is a jerk, so it is ok to talk and continue contact with my stinkycon".

See what I mean?

But you didn't yell, you didn't go bezerk. You just sat there and as soothingly as humanly possible you exposed all her deep dirty naughty secrets and she didn't know how to react.

I say beware, because if she cannot figure out where you are going with all of this she will try to turn it all to make herself the victim.

In the other hand, the cooler and nicer you act towards her, the less ammo she will have to do her charade. Her fog will ran out of fuel, and the only way she can hold anything against you is making it up or well holding things against herself, as, the A.

"The A will always be my fault", everytime she says this, smile at her, with the most loving smile you can compose, and tell her charmingly:

"No. Do you know I love you?"

If you're not a cook ... you can still make this work.

Instead of a restaurant ... pick up your favourite delicious food from take-out and serve it at home (on the good dishes, not in the take home containers) ... HOME. This is your "ace in the hole" ... you have a HOME ... use your HOME in your plan. Make HOME so relaxing ... so inviting ... so interesting ... try to tweak the usual stuff that you do **just a smidge** to make your HOME new and different, yet still familiar.

Be a star *** Space-shining-bright.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

"Space: "What's on your mind?"
.......exactly! This is what she will be wondering about YOU! "

Okay, now you've got to explain to me:

How does this idea differ from my idea to bring pizza over tonight and watch Farscape with my W?

SC and I are in otherwise the EXACT same predicament, though I've been in the guest house for the past week.

Sorry for kyping your thread space, Space.

SC, all in all, sounds like some progress, even if clouded.

At very least, I think, as Pep implies, it puts you in the driver's seat moreso... being in a position of control does become a bit intoxicating, given how little of it a BS gets to have... of course, we've always had it, just doesn't always feel like it.

I like Pep's suggestions - confidence... no matter what's up next, it's a tremendous thing to promote a PMA.

2long... hey, as always, pizza is your call, but Consistency is paramount... SC can make a case that he's been Plan A'ing clearly lately... your posture is far more of a Plan B, even if not official... so pizza is more of a Plan A activity... BUT... here's the pot calling the kettle black, after having my WW over on our anniversary on the 17th... bad J.R! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

2long,

They are different because:

1) your ww is already wondering what you are thinking.

2) She is also wondering what you have up your sleeve. Meaning, she doesn't know if you are up to more cake eating, going over with pizza to be cuddly and lovey dovey gives the impression you have cracked under pressure and she can keep right on doing what she was already doing before you left, remember?

Now get back or I'll zap you!

Here is your platypus guardian 2long. I drew it myself in one hour using my mouse only.

http://es.photos.yahoo.com/bc/sowda...vwp%3f.dir=/Archivos%2badjuntos%26.dnm=b

He can keep you company

Alostwife:

"They are different because:
1) your ww is already wondering what you are thinking."

Yeah. I suppose this is true.

"2) She is also wondering what you have up your sleeve. Meaning, she doesn't know if you are up to more cake eating, going over with pizza to be cuddly and lovey dovey gives the impression you have cracked under pressure and she can keep right on doing what she was already doing before you left, remember?"

Yeah. I suppose. I'd better call about the anti-Ds this afternoon, though, because I AM cracking. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

"Now get back or I'll zap you!"

Please do. I'm sick of this crap.

Look at the platypus, look at it, common look at it!

Be strong 2long, don't crack, you have come very far!