I have no idea what's going on with my W...for the first few hours after our chat, she was distant, I was trying to be very nice and loving...then later, like now, she's super nice, hugs and stuff...

I'm kinda lost. Have no idea what to do next...hope she decides I'm a bit safer, I guess. And that she'll join me for the session w/Steve on Tues...

It's hard for me to read if I did well or not. I didn't insist on getting a response from her about her plans, is that OK? Should I have?
Should I do it now?

Sorry 2L; you can't win on this one! MB Police on the prowl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I am thinking about how to get the kids out of the house tomorrow, bring quality food and make an evening of it...maybe my head'll clear tomorrow sometime! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It feels very weird for me to look at my W, and for the first time since all of this started, we both know (and know that the other one knows) that the A is alive and contact on-going.

I almost don't know how I'm supposed to act, or what, if anything to say...strange feeling...

Space,

You are alright, your wife is trying to adjust to the curve ball, not even trying to think of it. Her cover has been blown, somehow I believe that maybe she WANTED to be caught, she did pretty obvious things you know?

Now that the truth is out there she may feel even liberated. I know that doesn't sound quite right, but now that she has nothing to hold she has to drop the "Poor me I have a secret that my H would never understand", and decide whether to move or stay in the fence.

You have already made your peace offering, you have set things straight, and suggested a plan of action, which was counselling with SH.

She declined the MB weekend and didn't answer about the counseling. Or well she really is out of air from the punch, or she is buying herself sometime.

You need to keep your present strategy just as it is untill you get to talk to SH again.

Be aware that she may start mood swings again soon. Do no bring R or A talks anymore. Just go on with your thing, let her wonder, don't give her any hints.

Hang in there Space!

I was thinking last night about some of the things my W said, among them "I can't be like the book", and I thought; you know what? you already ARE like the book! Pretty much everything she's said and done is textbook SAA WS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Think that may convince her that maybe the good part of the WS to-do's might be a good thing?

Too optimistic, huh?

You've given her a TON to think about. Relax and soothe yourself ---> while she's thinking. She may just now be recognizing the quicksand she stands in. If she starts to recognize the quicksand ... she will need help to extricate herself ... you and Steve are there to help, if she wants help and will accept help.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks Pep, ALW, JR, et al...

I guess I did what I had to do, have to let it sink in, and hope she'll engage with Steve next week.

Clearly, the first order of business is an end of the R, and ensuring NC. Somehow I believe that will not be forthcoming easily.

But clearly she's understood at least 2 things; 1st, that I know what's been going on and I understand it enough at least to not go ballistic, 2nd, that it has to end somehow, (although she may still think this can be neogotiated...), and that a decision of some kind is pending ("what are your plans?").

I also think there are a few things she's no longer able to argue; even though I don't have a job, I've been able to keep our finances in order, so this can't be the issue it's been up to now. (Besides, if this is so critical now, why wasn't it before I lost my job? at least as far as her R with OM is concerned, this is a non-issue.)

And perhaps more importantly, she did acknowledge that her "emotional connection" elsewhere did affect us, and does affect me and our ability to recover. FIRST TIME this has come up at all.

And clearly forgiveness and trust cannot be gained while the A is ongoing and the lies continue...

So....wait and see...

But, I'll say this. I feel very, very good. Better than I have in a long time. I felt we made some important progress, and at least some barriers have been breached. This is good!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I still think Plan B will become necessary, but I'm hoping she may have time to think this through over the next few days and perhaps be partially prepared for a major change of course come Tuesday with Steve. Hope springs eternal.

Nice to be back!

There's an important comment my W made during the "confrontation" on Friday that I forgot to include. As we were talking about "emotional connections" and "hurting each other", she said "It's not like I went out and looked for this. I never meant to hurt you. It just happened." and I said; "I know that. I understand."

As I'd said before, she's been quite loving and pretty nice since a few hours after the confrontation. This has continued pretty much. Yesterday afternoon, we were lounging around, watching TV, and she said she'd like to take a nap, so I brought her a blanket and put it over her. Then went to give her a peck on the cheek and she said "I want to go to sleep...and never wake up." Then started crying. I held her, and told her "don't you ever say that, I love you." and just held her and comforted her. She didn't say anything else, just closed her eyes. Eventually she fell asleep as I stroked her hair.

Later, when she woke up and as we were getting ready to go to a friend's house for BBQ, I went to her and told her; "You are the woman that I love. And I'm going to fight for you." She said nothing. The evening went well, we had a good time, met some new people, had BBQ and chatted. When we came home and got ready to go to sleep, I held her and kissed her (pretty much my ususal), and just before she closed her eyes, she said "thank you for being so sweet"...I just said "I love you..."

It seems to me she's thinking about all this, maybe reaching some conclusions? Any ideas, comment, interpretations?

SC:

I think you're right. She's thinking.

Just like you said my W is doing after I left for a week. You helped me realize that my return home wasn't a failure on my part. Sure, it could have gone better and neater than it did, but that's the way it went down, and I will deal with it.

At least you've had Steve's coaching through this. I don't start with him until this Thursday.

SC

Know this...

W is NOT going to like choosing doing something that will "hurt his feelings". She is torn with the knowledge that she needs to make a decision that will cause hurt, or disappoint, or otherwise cause this "misunderstood man in prison" to again "suffer unjustly".

It is all HORSEsh*t ... we know that ... but this is what she is thinking ... "How do I get out of this? I don't want to hurt anyone?"

What do you think?

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>SC

Know this...

W is NOT going to like choosing doing something that will "hurt his feelings". She is torn with the knowledge that she needs to make a decision that will cause hurt, or disappoint, or otherwise cause this "misunderstood man in prison" to again "suffer unjustly".

It is all HORSEsh*t ... we know that ... but this is what she is thinking ... "How do I get out of this? I don't want to hurt anyone?"

What do you think?

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I agree entirely. There's no question she'd prefer NOT to have to decide. And up until now, at least over the last 4 months or so, she's felt she'd be able to do that.

Although clearly, she's known deep inside that "decision day" would eventually come, she's done everything in her power to delay it and delay it.

And I'm sure she will NOT be ready to make an immediate decision tomorrow with Steve, but I think he'll at least paint her a bleak picture if she does not.

Also, I think she does not believe I'd leave, and I'm sure she does not even IMAGINE the existence of Plan B with no communications and a break in financial support. That, on top of explaining to the kids and the rest of the family where I am and what heppened...it'll be a very difficult situation for her to deal with.

I can only HOPE she has begun to see the writing on the wall, and will, for once, be a bit more realistic about her chances and her choices. But frankly, I think Plan B is in my future.

And speaking of Plan B, here is the Edited version of my Plan B letter. I'd appreciate feedback!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My Dear W,

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that I have been working on for weeks now.

I sincerely apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your relationship with OM possible. I foolishly pursued my career thinking I was doing the right thing for us and our family, without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

You have chosen to spend time and give your emotional connection to this specific man and possibly others. I know you are still in contact with him, and have been in constant contact. I do not condone it, or like it, but I have no choice. You are the only person who can make choices for you and I will respect your decision. For over 11 months you elected NOT to make a choice, and sadly, I had to make the choice to remove myself from your triangle. My priority now becomes the children and I. I hope that you will be happy in whatever you choose and that you find peace. You are my friend, my lover and my wife. I only want true happiness for you and do not wish any harm or ill to you.

It means a great deal to me that you care enough to have kept trying. I have tried for 11 months to do this, but I have found out by trying that I am not the kind of person who can accommodate you in this. I love you so very much. Every breath I take hurts right now. My body and soul ache for you. I can no longer suffer your divided love. It hurts too much.

I can commit to a marriage based on honesty, openness and mutual respect and care for the other's well-being. I can commit to marriage with you on those terms - I cannot commit to marriage on any terms other than those, and I am determined not to.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I’ve made in the past and work hard to create a new life for both of us that will meet both our needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OM and all other relationships and emotional commitments which require you to maintain a secret second life that takes away from our relationship, for once and for all. I love you and I want our marriage to work but in order to preserve my love for you I am no longer willing to keep working on this marriage until there is no contact with the other man.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially in meeting all of our current obligations. I will continue to pay the mortgage and I will provide you & the children with groceries and other basic needs, but I will not be able to pay for utilities or for your car and other expenses of our home; you will have to cover those yourself. I have made arrangements for the children to see or stay with me whenever they desire, but they must do it without you. If I should need to come to the house, I will make sure to do it when you are not there, or will make arrangements with the children to bring me what I might need. I’d appreciate your leaving my mail in the mailbox as I will pick it up myself. If you need to communicate with me regarding the children or any other matter, it will have to be through a friend or family member, (I might suggest D or B), unless it is an emergency involving the children, in which case I will take your call.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him, and hearing the sound of your voice when you speak to him; sounds I have not heard in many years. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OM, demonstrate it in a credible way, and are willing to follow measures to ensure total and permanent separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together. We cannot make the mistake we made in the past, thinking that by ending the external relationship things would work themselves out. The scars that episode left in us are probably one of the major factors in why we are where we are today. We must commit to our marriage and to each other as our number one priority in every way, and we must jointly agree to a marriage recovery plan that includes the following: Protection - avoiding being the cause of each other’s unhappiness; Care - meeting each other’s emotional needs; Time - giving each other our undivided attention; and Honesty - being totally open and honest with each other. Steve Harley can help us do this, as well as help us with a plan we can both agree on.

I understand how difficult this is for you as well, and I will make every effort to provide you with comfort and support as we work through this together.

I accept responsibility for my part in the fall of our marriage, but I will no longer accept responsibility for your part. I think that you need to take this time to face your demons, as I have faced mine, and figure out what you want. I can't control what you do, nor will I try to change you anymore. I can't do that and I accept that. I’m sorry if I hurt you because of it. I realize that I have to take care of me now. I can control me and change myself. Only you can control and change you; if that is what you choose to do.

I love you and I want us to spend the rest of our lives together. I believe in you. I believe in your beautiful ambitions and goals for your business and your life. I marvel at what you've done for us and for so many others over the years. Our children; look at the people they're becoming, in large part due to the time YOU chose to spend with them. YOU made yourself the person you are today. Nobody else did. You deserve to be as proud as I am of your accomplishments as a woman, a businessperson and a mother.

I love you W; you will always be very special to me. I look back through our life and I choose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too.

I’ve loved you since I met you, I loved you when we married, and I continue to love you today; perhaps even more than I ever did before. I look at the picture of us on the beach, and I remember the dreams and the hopes, the stars, and the sunsets we watched. I remember our first awkward time together, and I still believe those dreams are possible. I just cannot be with you or see you while you are still involved with OM and feel the need to have a separate life without me.

All my love,

Spacecase
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Folks, everyone's been very helpful in suggesting that I cook for her, whistle, act like Cary Grant, relax, give her time, and all that....BUT nobody's actually come out and said "you did good", or "You s---ed", or "you blew it" or any of that....c'mon, don't be shy! I want to hear it!

AND nobody's commented on my Plan B letter either... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Some of the paragraphs are redundant, re-expressing essentially the same thought.

I'm eating ... let me think while I chew ...

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

SC,

Pepper is right. The letter has redundant paragraphs in it. Tone it up a bit and make it shorter. As for your discussion with your W, it seems you did very well. NOW that you have done that, it is time to await what SH makes of all of this, he is the pro. But, my feeling is that you need to start your plans for Plan B and having her move out not you. You are spending more time at home than she, and further, she is the one that leaves to see OM.

But, the important thing you need to do in my opinion is to come to the point where you can leave. You are right she probably believes and more so now that you WILL NOT leave. But, SC you will leave and probably will have to leave before she sees the picture. What I see in your posts is that you have done a great job showing her your love, you have done a great Plan A. And in doing so, it is clear you have become much stronger, and much more in control of yourself and your emotions. This means two very important things in my mind: 1. You are strong enough to make the marriage work. 2. Because you are strong enough to overcome your great disappointment in your W to make the marriage work, you are also strong enough to leave and start a new life.

It will really be her decision first, but you get the second decision and you are now strong enough to make the correct one for you. It may be time for her to understand that. Perhaphs something to talk with SH about. You have been through the fires, you have done your Plan A and you are now strong enough tempered well enough to handle this situation no matter which way it goes. You can even now call the shots. She may need to know this. NOT as a threat but simply as a statement of where you are.

You are treating her with love and respect because you choose to do that, not because you need to do it. It is your choice to deal with her as you are, and it was your choice to send love notes although you KNEW that she was going tosee the OM. With strength like that you can also choose to END this folly if she chooses to continue with OM.

You may have felt like a doormat while you were doing all of this, but what was not seen was that you were and are getting stronger because of the doormat approach. It has made you the one in control, not her.

Some things to think about SC.

God Bless,

JL

SC- I am in tears now... that is perfect. H

Thanks, JL; very good feedback. A couple of clarifications...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong>SC,

Pepper is right. The letter has redundant paragraphs in it. Tone it up a bit and make it shorter. As for your discussion with your W, it seems you did very well. NOW that you have done that, it is time to await what SH makes of all of this, he is the pro. But, my feeling is that you need to start your plans for Plan B and having her move out not you. You are spending more time at home than she, and further, she is the one that leaves to see OM.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you mean by "tone it up a bit"? make it harder? harsher?

Indeed, I intend to wait for Steve's feedback tomorrow. No actions until then. Hopefully my W will also attend, and we'll see what she says to him...where she's headed.

Why would you have her move out and not me? I'm afraid that will be impossible to do. No way she'll move out away from our kids.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
But, the important thing you need to do in my opinion is to come to the point where you can leave. You are right she probably believes and more so now that you WILL NOT leave. But, SC you will leave and probably will have to leave before she sees the picture. What I see in your posts is that you have done a great job showing her your love, you have done a great Plan A. And in doing so, it is clear you have become much stronger, and much more in control of yourself and your emotions. This means two very important things in my mind: 1. You are strong enough to make the marriage work. 2. Because you are strong enough to overcome your great disappointment in your W to make the marriage work, you are also strong enough to leave and start a new life.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you're right. It feels like I've made progress, but you know how it is, we always feel we have not gotten there, or need more, or could be better. But I am ready, and it IS time.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
It will really be her decision first, but you get the second decision and you are now strong enough to make the correct one for you. It may be time for her to understand that. Perhaphs something to talk with SH about. You have been through the fires, you have done your Plan A and you are now strong enough tempered well enough to handle this situation no matter which way it goes. You can even now call the shots. She may need to know this. NOT as a threat but simply as a statement of where you are.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I correct in interpreting this as Steve should let her know I'm ready to move on if she doesn't make the "right" decision?

I assumed he would do that without my prompting...

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
You are treating her with love and respect because you choose to do that, not because you need to do it. It is your choice to deal with her as you are, and it was your choice to send love notes although you KNEW that she was going tosee the OM. With strength like that you can also choose to END this folly if she chooses to continue with OM.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very true. And I think she's seen this now. Must be having an impact...

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
You may have felt like a doormat while you were doing all of this, but what was not seen was that you were and are getting stronger because of the doormat approach. It has made you the one in control, not her.

Some things to think about SC.

God Bless,

JL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did feel like a "doormat", but you're right; after the confrontation last week, I AM much more in control. Just the fact that I'm mentally ready to move on gives me control, and having shown her/told her that does so even more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>SC- I am in tears now... that is perfect. H</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I assume you're referring to the Plan B letter...

Spacey,

Sorry... I've been vacationing from MB a bit lately <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I'll try to post a few thoughts here, then I will dig in and try to give you something better later.

I think your confrontation was really good!!! really! I can't see where anything should have gone differently. It went much better than any conversations I ever tried to have. You have wonderful control of your emotions, and a tremendous understanding of the situation, it's roots, and possible solutions.

I agree that your letter is too long. Pretty much, anytime we add additional paragraphs to the "standard" plan B letter that most of use, we are being redundant, preachy, or whiney.

Upon kinda quick review here, I think you can take these paragraphs out:

>You have chosen to spend time and give your emotional connection to this specific man and possibly others. ......

>It means a great deal to me that you care enough to have kept trying.......

>I accept responsibility for my part in the fall of our marriage, but .....

Try taking those out, read through again, and see what you think.

Like I said, I will dig in again and see if I can offer any more constructive criticism that you are seeking.

Hi Spacecase,

You asked for opinions so........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think you have done and are doing an awesome Plan A! Reading your posts has helped me to be a little more patient and to step back and take a look at the bigger picture before I act or react especially during the most trying and/or torturous times. I thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your process.

About your Plan B letter.....

Sorry Spacecase, maybe I am too sensitive right now but if I received that letter any hope I had, any thought of "maybe" dumping Rat Meat and rebuilding with you would fly right out the window. I didn't read the whole thing though...too long. Like I said, though, I might be too sensitive right now and maybe what I found to be "finger-pointing" and "demands" are not really that at all.

Just my opinion. Take care.