Well, plans are one thing, reality's another.

I can't stop crying when I'm alone. I need to tell my W how I feel, but I can't. That comment about what she likes about OM just reminded me that this EA is still very much under way. I'm back to square one.

I was working on the maids bedroom in the house, because we want to start making part of the house livable so we can get out of the rental and reconnect to the house. But I got depressed and angry and threw one of my tools, making a small hole in the wall. DAMN. I haven't done that since I was a teenager!

Better get back to work, because she'll wonder where I am.

We're supposed to go to a movie this afternoon. I don't want to go, but I will.

I just want this crap to end. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hey, hope it's a good movie - hopefully funny...

_I_ get the joy of going to IC/MC to talk about my FEELINGS!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Doesn't THAT sound fun! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

2L, my friend, I have come to a very important conclusion today. After much pondering, reading and re-reading posts, looking at what hurts and events of the last few days.

We need to cut them loose. Let them go. I remembered the anguish I felt when my WW was going to leave for FL the last time, and then I came to the right conclusion; I have to let her go, not worry about her, and not worry about what she's doing. And I did. Didn't even call her.
But then, after she came back, and I started finding all this info about the trip, and the OM, and all that crap, all I did was fall back into the behavior and feelings I had dropped when she went on her trip. And you've seen my posts of the last few days; anguish again over THIS trip!

So; I will let her go. I will let her do her thing, and I will not be bothered or hurt by what she does or does not do. I will do my best to maintain this very attitude and position ALL the time. When I falter, I will sing that song "set them free", I will repeat my new mantra: LET HER GO, LET HER GO, LET HER GO, LET HER GO....

I will continue to Plan A when I'm with her, and I will continue to chant the mantra when I'm not. And soon enough, as things develop, as things happen, we will see what transpires. Maybe the A will end, maybe she'll have a religious experience at the MB weekend, maybe a car will run me over next week...but I will still be chanting my mantra...LET HER GO...and if by G--s grace something happens, and she decides I am a nice enough caveman she'd like to come back to, I'll be here, whether by then I'm still here or in the extended stay Plan Bing...chanting LET HER GO, LET HER GO, LET HER GO....

As for you, my friend, please talk to your Dr. about some meds; all that non-stop crying is not good. I am hoping they will also help me, although I'd managed to pretty much stop the crying by then.

And now I'm off to copy this post into my thread...since it is, after all, a part of my story...which I hope will somehow inspire you in some way.

NO no no no..... U boys got it all wrong. It is not about U waiting for the WS to pick you it is about you learning about yourself, better yourself, then IF and WHEN the WS chooses to wake up and come back to the family as a family, then and only then should the BS start to think IF and WHEN they should let the WS back in. The choice at THAT time is up to the BS. Right now it is WS time. They are out their messing up THEIR lives (and ours also) but you need to let them stop messing up our lives and just mess up theirs.

2long if you refocus to this train of thought then the train of despair will not run you over and you will not be in soooo much pain.

L.

Orchid:

I know you're right. It's just that I keep trying to be loving and she gets a little more comfortable and willing to tell me something, and that knocks me down again.

This am it was what I posted, then after I posted she told me her friend - that works with her and lived with us in our last rental for 5 months - "has known for years that I love the OM" - not "that I was in love with the OM" but AM.

Why can't people that know these things try to help? Just letting me know what I was up against all these years would have been nice.

I know, though. I need to be me for me (and my kids).

J.R. the movie is Minority Rept. Hopefully it won't be sold out this time. We really like Skiffy stories, so this should be "fun" if not funny.

Thanks folks. I'm trying.

Ok, let me ask you something. I know you are currently Plan A'ing...and you are also in MCing. I know you are frustrated that wife isn't "getting it"...but I have to say, that's pretty normal when the WS is still in the fog.

What I'm curious about is what you think your actions are doing to help her out of that fog? Which, if any, of your actions actually back up what how you feel about all of this?

What I mean is, to me it seems that your actions negate what you say you are feeling. This could be extrememly confusing to a WS and because the message isn't black and white, loud and clear...they'll choose to think whatever is convienent for them to think. This is another reason I think that Plan B is so effective. It backs up words with actions.

As long as your wife thinks she has you hooked she'll continue to try to do things her way. As long as you are building her a house and Plan A'ing....why on earth would she believe you're serious?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>NO no no no..... U boys got it all wrong. It is not about U waiting for the WS to pick you it is about you learning about yourself, better yourself, then IF and WHEN the WS chooses to wake up and come back to the family as a family, then and only then should the BS start to think IF and WHEN they should let the WS back in. The choice at THAT time is up to the BS. Right now it is WS time. They are out their messing up THEIR lives (and ours also) but you need to let them stop messing up our lives and just mess up theirs.

2long if you refocus to this train of thought then the train of despair will not run you over and you will not be in soooo much pain.

L.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, OK...We'll grant you that, Orchid, you're right on that point. Absolutely. But the key to this, I believe, Is actually being able to let them go in the first place, don't you think?

Yes Cadet, letting them go is hard. Kinda like letting our child take a spill on their bike. But this is their choice. They want to fall and will fight us until they do. The fact that it is going to hurt to fall and watch them fall is mute at this point. There is no reasoning with the ineviditable so let them fall. Just don't put them higher (with expectations) so that they have a longer way to fall. Let them fall from where they are.

Another reason is that you are giving them their space. Less reason to blame you. Reduces the stress on you and gives them the rope to hang themselves with blame. Very hard to do but a must for some of us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Say I love U but you are gonna have to fall by yourself. I do not love you enough to allow you to destroy my life and that of my family. If destruction is what you want, then you need to go do it by yourself. Make sure you smile while doing this because this is what you want. Some nutty illogic garble.

L.

Wise and valuable advice, Orchid, as usual. This I will remember.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, OK...We'll grant you that, Orchid, you're right on that point. Absolutely. But the key to this, I believe, Is actually being able to let them go in the first place, don't you think? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But then again, SC, you have to ask yourself.....
Am I "letting go" of something that I am really not holding, anyhow.......

hcii

Yeah to what Orchid said and yeah about the "me mode" and just let the WS come to you. It's better that way. 2long--remember when you were gone for ??? however long and when you got back there was gobs of affection for you--to me, that was WSs way of saying that she loved you and missed you. At least, that's how I interpreted it. Keep working on you and remember the only person who determines YOUR self worth is GOD and YOU! WS does NOT dictate your self-worth! Don't let her do that to you! Take her words with a grain of salt right now until the fog lifts... You know the MB drill! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Great feedback, folks. I will have to cogitate while working on the house today and get back to you all. Some of it I can easily do, some I can't because I would have to disappoint my kids at the same time I do "things for myself." But I'm thinking about this stuff.

Hey. We did go see Minority Rept. but it's got a Major Trigger at the beginning. First crime prevented is a murder out of a BH catching his WW and her OM in their bed. Very hard to watch. My W held my hand tight throughout that, which was welcome. We talked about it this am, and she said "I never did anything like that to you" which must have been the way it happened in the movie - right under the BS's nose.

2long-

Just wanted to thank you for your post the other day repeating what JUST LEARNING had to say. It helped me get through a difficult conversation with WW about no-contact yesterday. I don't know what effect the conversation had on my W, but halfway through she thought I had implied it was OK for her to continue working with OM. By calmly repeating my message several times it finaly sank in that she would have to make a decision.

I second what Spacecase said about the anit-d's. They have helped me get over the crying and given me the strength to keep going forward with my plan A. I know they are not for everyone, but you need to find some way to get yourself on stable ground.

Cheers.

onwardandup:

I'm glad the post was helpful to you. I think that it did sink home to my WW that I won't tolerate OM in our lives if we stay M'd, better than ever before. I really think, though, that my W is still trying to rationalize or negotiate OM in her future somehow, or to be able to take her sweet time getting him gone (with continued contact in the meantime). I KNOW she doesn't realize that SHE is set back every time she talks to him.

I can feel the end of my tolerance coming, probably much sooner than October. I am seeing my IC tomorrow afternoon, and I plan to ask him pointed questions about HIS approach in this situation, regarding something like plan B. I did talk to him about these plans, and he is familiar with them. I also will talk to him about ADs. I kept telling myself that I wouldn't need them, but maybe I do.

I should have said, above, that Minority Rept. was an otherwise very good movie. Good mystery material. That A scene at the beginning was tough, though.

btdt:

You're right. Except that it wasn't ME gone, it was her working in the field 3 days/wk. That's done. Still, we have very good "makeups" after our discussions, even the arguments that hurt so much. I really thought after the other night that I wouldn't even be able to think about SF, and yet... (I know, 2long's just a horn-dog!), I asked her if it would be okay this am and she said yes. We had finished a good conversation, though, so things were upbeat.

Been a good day so far. I'm working on replastering a ceiling in the house and WW is stenciling in the guest house, so I have time alone, which is good. Well, she came over for a while and we ripped an old cabinet out of the kitchen together, and then she came back another time to just sit and talk while I was working on the ceiling. I can "feel" that she's trying to connect, not control, and so I'm enjoying it. She even came in and kissed me at one point (and we're both paint and dust-covered, in our grubbies - quite the couple!).

I've been thinking about working on ME the whole time, so I am avoiding the depressions I felt yesterday.

h4f:

"Ok, let me ask you something. I know you are currently Plan A'ing...and you are also in MCing."

MCing ended last Tuesday, at least for a while. I think our MC and her IC are turds, but that may be just me.

"I know you are frustrated that wife isn't "getting it"...but I have to say, that's pretty normal when the WS is still in the fog."

And that's been the realization that's hurt the most this past couple of weeks, the fog is a lot thicker than I thought it would be by this time. Hell, it's been 8 damned months since she (unilaterally, unfortunately) "broke it off" with OM. Based on other signs I was misreading, I really thought we were getting close to starting recovery, but we're really maybe only getting close to starting withdrawl, if she actually does say bye.

"What I'm curious about is what you think your actions are doing to help her out of that fog? Which, if any, of your actions actually back up what how you feel about all of this?
What I mean is, to me it seems that your actions negate what you say you are feeling. This could be extrememly confusing to a WS and because the message isn't black and white, loud and clear...they'll choose to think whatever is convienent for them to think. This is another reason I think that Plan B is so effective. It backs up words with actions.
As long as your wife thinks she has you hooked she'll continue to try to do things her way. As long as you are building her a house and Plan A'ing....why on earth would she believe you're serious?"

Sobering questions. I can't give a difinitive answer (to "my own") satisfaction. You make a difficult-to-face point. One well taken. I have to seriously consider just what kind of plan B I can implement, with such a difficult situation to deal with.

I've thought about moving into a one-room apt somewhere, and arranging to work on the house on weekends she's not home, that kind of thing. She's handled all our bills, and does a good job of it (never spent money on OM, thankfully). I'd have to consolidate them if I took them over, but I don't think I'd need to.

She's toyed with the idea of taking a month off work and going to her house out of state alone. Mainly to think by herself. I said that might be a reasonable idea, but I'd really have no control of whether she had contact that way. Wouldn't really care, actually. OM wouldn't likely go there, because it's one of those small towns that KNOWS EVERYTHING that goes on, so she has never had him come there. She doesn't know squat about plan B, though, and doesn't realize that I would probably ask her not to contact me while she's gone, and I'd leave before she got home.

I will continue to work on myself, and stop caring what she's trying to get me to do, or caring what she's thinking about what I'll allow or not. I can feel the LB$ getting low, though, and plan to keep going to my IC at least once a week for a while (schedules allowing) to make sure I know where my head's at as things develop, or don't develop.

Good questions, though. Tough ones, too. I wish I could tell you more details, h4f. If you feel comfortable sending me an email, I might be willing to do that. It would be interesting to hear what a FWS might have to say about how I might be able to implement a plan B with all the other stuff we're dealing with.

all my best,

It was a GOOD DAY. It was a GOOD WEEKEND. It was a GOOD BOTTLE OF MERLOT. It *is* a GOOD BOTTLE OF CHARDONNAY.

No, I'm NOT drinking those by myself. My spousal unit is going to help.

We're gonna hunker down with my son and watch a DVD movie tonight, then get some sleep, then do the routine tomorrow am.

Yep. was a good weekend. My W said lovey stuff to me (before I had those 3 glasses, too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). I'm doing okay. Having fun "pulling" that stuff out of her, but not expecting much. I actually used to have a "talent" of sorts for doing that, when I was a Christian Scientist teenager working summers in Chinle, AZ. Helped a couple of pretty young things with their personal issues, WITHOUT getting romantically involved with them. Wish I had, now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Actually, someday I ought to tell you the story of my W (before she was) coming out to Rock Point, AZ, to see me. She surprised the heck out of me by coming out. I fell pretty much in love with her then. Only held hands and walked in the red rock desert with her then. I was a good boy, no?

She was so beautiful...

2long,

Just catching up after being camping this weekend; I believe you had an IC appointment today. Let us know how it goes! CSue