</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Pepper:

That's actually pretty funny.

If I were the WS in our M and my W were to do that to ME, I'd be dead by now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OH! I'd be on my knees begging for mercy after about the second pass! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

hm...

"the best I can muster is my very slightly bulging belly in my silk Lion King boxers! And believe me, THAT will NOT torture my W!!!"

ol' 2long picturing SC in a pair of Lion King boxers...

Still want me to send you some sweet nothings?

Spacey ... do you have a Polaroid camara ? You could take a few *sexy* pictures of your handsome self ... and leave some "visual love notes" in her suitcase. (I am bad today!)

Write some poetry .... describe your desire for her in beautiful words ... women love this ... trust me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Spacey ... do you have a Polaroid camara ? You could take a few *sexy* pictures of your handsome self ... and leave some "visual love notes" in her suitcase. (I am bad today!)

Write some poetry .... describe your desire for her in beautiful words ... women love this ... trust me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I now have this torturing picture in my mind of a cadet with a hairy chest in lion king silkies holding a box of heart shaped chocolate dipped cherries and reciting from Romeo and Juliet. Now is that a kodak moment or what? LOL!!! Now Where is JTW? She can probably put some lyrics to this scene <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

<small>[ July 15, 2002, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid:

Don't forget ol' 2long playing the part of Shakespeare!

2Long,

Then your bi-line would be ..... 2 B or not 2B? Please excuse my torture of english literature. My pidgin always gets in the way!!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Switch to a different subject. Howz this for a name: Not2LB?

L.

Shakespeare said something that was quoted in our Christian Science textbook that I remember from years ago:

"There is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."

-2thinkornot2think

I don't suppoise this one would work, right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Some day you'll cry for me like I cried for you. Some day you'll miss me like I missed you.
Some day you'll need me like I needed you. Some day you'll love me, but I won't love you.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I imagine there are many here who might find a use for it...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you ready to dry out yet? I am ready for the sun but not for the great crop of mosquitoes that will be hatching soon, they are all ready bad as it is.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy am I ever! It hasn't stopped raining in over a week!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>hm...

"the best I can muster is my very slightly bulging belly in my silk Lion King boxers! And believe me, THAT will NOT torture my W!!!"

ol' 2long picturing SC in a pair of Lion King boxers...

Still want me to send you some sweet nothings?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Come to think of it.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Spacey ... do you have a Polaroid camara ? You could take a few *sexy* pictures of your handsome self ... and leave some "visual love notes" in her suitcase. (I am bad today!)

Write some poetry .... describe your desire for her in beautiful words ... women love this ... trust me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, good, these are both good...I'll see what I can dig up in terms of "sexy" pictures! You crack me up Pep!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Spacey ... do you have a Polaroid camara ? You could take a few *sexy* pictures of your handsome self ... and leave some "visual love notes" in her suitcase. (I am bad today!)

Write some poetry .... describe your desire for her in beautiful words ... women love this ... trust me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I now have this torturing picture in my mind of a cadet with a hairy chest in lion king silkies holding a box of heart shaped chocolate dipped cherries and reciting from Romeo and Juliet. Now is that a kodak moment or what? LOL!!! Now Where is JTW? She can probably put some lyrics to this scene <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> YIKES!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> </strong>

SC:

Why is this stuff so predictable? Why didn't I EXPECT this? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018990.

Got one full hour of sleep last night. Now I've got go to work all day, then pick my W and her "coworker that knows about the A" from the airport like there's nothing wrong - again.

At least I've got training. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hang in there, 2L; we all have our setbacks, and unfortunately, we both have very "tough cookies" for our Ws. They will not easily be swayed by logic, and they will not easily submit to "the program". They will fight it tooth and nail.

But like I said in your thread, these setbacks provide opportunities for a breakthrough. Work it, plan it, and perhaps you can make considerable good come of it.

As we get closer to more drastic measures, and our level of tolerance diminishes, we are able to be stronger and more firm; this will eventually force the "fence-sitting" to end. I am much more prepared for drastic measures now than I was a month ago, and I'm prepared for a showdown, if needed.

Well I must admit I could NOT possibly read all the posts because I was too busy puking all over the place. HURL MUSH, HURL MOORE MUSH.

I'm shocked I stand alone here. Why am I the only one who wants to take your W and OM out back and kick their A$$ to the curb?!!! Sheesh, what a bunch of sappy romantics!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do always like to add that ONLY you know what is the best thing to do in your unique situation. Stay strong SC, I trust you!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by I LuvNprotect ME:
<strong>Well I must admit I could NOT possibly read all the posts because I was too busy puking all over the place. HURL MUSH, HURL MOORE MUSH.

I'm shocked I stand alone here. Why am I the only one who wants to take your W and OM out back and kick their A$$ to the curb?!!! Sheesh, what a bunch of sappy romantics!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do always like to add that ONLY you know what is the best thing to do in your unique situation. Stay strong SC, I trust you!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ILuv,
First of all, I'd be right behind you in the race to "kick their A$$ to the curb", and I'd be trying to get there first! If I REALLY believed that would somehow help this situation; but you know as well as I do that it won't. And it's NOT because of romance that this is, for the moment, the right choice. It is because we accomplish nothing serious and true and lasting if we "force" the end of the A, "force" the decision. Sure, I could do it; would it work? probably. Would it be "real"? No. And I certainly do not want a reluctant wife, a reluctant marriage where I'm going to have to subject all of us to an unending stream of Plan Bs, over and over again for the rest of our lives.

Which is not to say that "doing it the right way at the right time" will necessarily work. It may, it may not. But we HAVE to give it every chance we possibly can. So that if we really DO enter recovery, it is on a real foundation, not on a threat; a fear of loss.

And let me tell you; I VERY strongly suspect that in the end, it may just come to a "showdown" like you've proposed. But that must absolutely be the last resort. Only for when everything else has failed, and then, when it's the only chance, we will do it.

I don't disagree with you ILuv; you KNOW I respect your opinion and your input. I just think we're a little off on the TIMING of it, that's all.

SC:

For crying out loud, when is the right time? I'm struggling with this very question right now. I think I've done a pretty good plan A to this point. I KNOW that I'm going to undo a lot of good work this evening when my W gets back, no matter how hard I try not to. So, with an empty love bank, is it truly wise to keep plugging away? I realized last night as I read that email from last friday (for rice cake!) where my W told OM that friends are referring to the topography on her property as "W's Mounds" and OM responded with a sexual remark about her breasts, that this EA is very much in full swing in spite of all I've tried and all the Cing that we've had in the past 6 months. My W is lying to all of us. If I "continue" my plan A, she continues her A and I stop caring. If I can figure out how to DO a plan B, there might be some hope that this suffering will end someday. And I know that I have to be prepared for DV as the possible outcome of going to plan B, but I feel ready, maybe even anxious, to go straight to plan D and be done with this!!

I WANT to kick her a$$ to the curb! I won't, though, as I'm working in a vacuum here and I don't really know what the impact on our family would be.

2Long
I think you'll know when Plan B is right.

As far as your comment on the impact of family would be... I got to a place where I thought staying in the relationship was MORE harmful for the kids. There is NO WAY I wanted my children to put up with what I put up with in their own future marriages. I wanted them to know boundaries...to know right from wrong...to know there are consequences to wrong actions. I know each situation is different and there are no magic formulas. But sometimes I think in Plan A the BS puts themselves in victim mode (just because I'm on your post SC does NOT mean I'm talking about you!) They think they have no choices. They stay for fear of the unknown. I think a 6 month Plan A is long enough. Once the WS knows what it can be like and STILL chooses the OP, it is time for Plan B. There seems to be a Plan B-aphobia. I lean towards Plan B (by myself here a lot!). I think for 3 years of my marriage I was in Plan A - nonconfrontational and very loving and complacent. Then I got strong, took control of my life and am happy to NOT be so afraid of Plan B or even divorce if necessary. It helps me set appropriate boundaries in my marriage. My H respects me now. But you know, I went through the long haul too so I shouldn't be so impatient with others as they go through it.

ILuv:

Hope4Future is often saying that the WS needs to experience the consequences of their actions in plan B to ever have a hope of "getting it."

My W's A went on so long that her personal and professional R with OM is so intertwined that I honestly believe she thinks she can't continue in her field if she says NC. So, ending her A may be much, much harder for her than for the "average" WS. And if the average WS needs to go through the BS's plan B, then by that logic my W almost certainly does.

Sure, I'm afraid of what it might be like, feeling like I'm the one breaking up the family and putting all the dirty laundry on the table for our extended family to see. But I'm getting more and more afraid of the alternative, which is to "do nothing" and allow this A to continue, even escalate for the third time. So, the choices still aren't going to be easy, but they're becoming clearer by the minute.

2L; as I see it you have three, maybe 4 choices, and they are not what you think.

1st choice; You can use the information for maximum advantage or positive marital impact, IF you feel you can do so working together with your MC to script it out, manage it and deliver for maximum impact and minimum downside potential.
This choice assumes you believe the MC can/will do this.

2nd Choice; In the abscence of belief in your MCs ability/desire to work with you on this, you can take ALL the knowledge you have gained here, all you very best MB posture, and do it yourself in the best way you possibly can.

Now both of these choices involve confrontation, and both involve planning, strategy, restraint, etc. but the will be a confrontation in both. How much POSITIVE results you get from the confrontation will depend only partially on you and/or you and the MC. If your W is ready to make a decision, if she's capable of it, if she's waiting for a "sign" in order to make it, then you have a good chance of success either way. If she's NOT ready, or has already made a decision, whatever you do will not have the desired outcome, but will give YOU the sign YOU need to make decisions about YOUR life.

3rd choice; You can sit on this information, calm down, and use it WHEN you feel you are either ready to do it yourself, or ready to do it with an MC, or after consulting with Steve, perhaps. This choice involves tons of self-control, and it invoilves waiting for the right moment when it will have the best chance of success. It probably also means time to gather even more stuff, etc.

I said 3 or 4 choices, because you can choose to consult the Harley's, and perhaps feel better and more secure in the knowledge that they will use this in the very best possible way, if you don't have faith in your MC or have fears and doubts about going it alone.