Boy, this 14400 phone connection is odd. Takes several minutes for the "active topics" page to update.

I'm going to have to shut this poor power-starved Mac'n'Cheese down, take a shower, check out, and head into work where we have a hinet connection!

Talk to you in a few.

Thanks very much for all the heartfelt replies!!

What is your son going to do today if your W goes to the Swap Meet ? (At "the bowl" ... right?)

Does your son often spend his Saturdays alone, or with his buds??? You might consider going out somewhere with him. He may be confused by your departure.

Pep

Pepper:

He's got a friend staying over. They play video games all day long!

My W was going to the one in Huntington Beach, where we once lived. She was going to pick up another of my son's friends afterward and bring him home for the night.

I'm going to see if our trainer will be available to help my son learning to fly his RC airplane tomorrow.

2long,

Whew....just a few comments!

1. Great timing on your part. What she said was waaaaayyyy out of line and not acceptable.

2. Great job being calm and in control. Very proud of you for that.

3. Regarding the legalese; hopefully a lawyer is out there in MB land and can give you immediate advice regarding; how your leaving could affect you down the road as far as "abandonment issues", custody issues, etc; someone with experience in your state. My concern here is that your son, daughter, and maybe your wife know how to contact you so it doesn't appear to the legal profession that you've abandoned the family. Maybe your friend who is older and divorced twice can shed some light on the subject.

Obviously your W knows that you haven't abandoned your family; I just don't know how it can be interpreted legally if it comes to that.

I have some thoughts about your plan B letter; however I feel a little inadequate to address them because I haven't had to experience writing the letter or living it. You have some very good MBers who are experts at this.

I do like the fact that you're including RatMeat; other MBers may advise against CCing him and rightfully so. I wonder if it would also be wise to send a copy to OMW. Bless you, 2long CSue

Checking in, 2L;
I'm working on my re-work of your letter and will post it, along with other replies I owe ya'.

Well, here's my 2 cents on your letter:

SC Inserts in Italics

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>

Dear W:

I apologize to you for my part in creating your dissatisfaction with our marriage that led to your decision to have an affair with Rat Meat. Although I've ALWAYS loved you, more than you can imagine, I must have made you feel that everything that I do for myself was more important to me than you are. It never was the case, but I can see now that that is how I made you feel and for that I am </strong>truly<strong>sorry.

I said and did many things out of feelings of hurt that I can assure you I never meant </strong>to hurt you with<strong>. I wish I didn’t have that tendency to clam up and withdraw when you were trying to reach out to me, but unfortunately I can’t undo what’s happened. If I had known what I know now, I truly believe that we would never have become withdrawn from each other, and you would not have felt the need for companionship from Rat Meat. Instead, * I would hurt you back when I felt hurt, consciously or subconsciously, and I know that was wrong. I have learned this is wrong and through the counseling I am getting, I believe that I am learning to change that behavior into something positive. I have also learned not to internalize things so much. This is still hard for me but I am trying. And I also need to recognize when to be patient and not burden you with my problems if you aren’t ready to work with me on them. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I might change this phrase "I would hurt you back when I felt hurt, " to "we would hurt each other back when we felt hurt,"

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I spent too much time at work, sometimes on holidays, weekends, and late into the night to meet deadlines over the years, and my telescope hobby, particularly the last couple of years, without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important needs for attention and admiration. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and so now we both are suffering for my mistakes. I am willing to avoid the mistakes I have made in the past and create a NEW life for us, wherein we cherish each other’s company, encourage and support each other dreams and accomplishments. I truly believe that it is possible with what I have learned. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Rat Meat once and for all. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The following 5 paragraphs can go. This is not the time to discuss these things, 2L; That time will come, face to face, if she chooses to do so and you accept. I think any justifications and specific requests should be kept out of here, as you will want to leave your options open. You may need to/like to negotiate some of these things, and if they're in here so rigidly, as conditions, it may not give you the opportunity to do that.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
* On the way to the airport the other day, you and coworker that knows about A were talking about work issues regarding Rat Meat. Also, on our way back from out of state over the 4th of July weekend, you alluded to your desire to have Rat Meat analyze your samples from work and compare the results to those from your own project out of state. I didn’t feel comfortable asking for clarification either time, because the first time our son and your mom were in the car, and the second time coworker that knows about A was there. I didn’t want to embarrass you, them, or myself by having an argument about Rat Meat those times. But, if you indeed intend to have Rat Meat work on your own project with you, that implies very long-term contact, and I will not live with you under those conditions.

* The other night, you indicated to me that you set up your hotmail account specifically for correspondence with Rat Meat. You said that it was private, and your contact with him is not any of my business. I understand that you are afraid of how I might react to the content of your emails to and from Rat Meat, but I assure you that you are missing the point about my concerns with continued contact. And you need to realize that we cannot have an intimate marital relationship if we keep “secret second lives” from each other. We simply cannot begin recovery from the consequences of the bad decisions of the past until you sever all contact with Rat Meat, and do so permanently. Similarly, Rat Meat can’t restore his broken family so long as he keeps in contact with you. Because you had two affairs with him, any type of relationship, be it personal or professional, would be inappropriate and disrespectful, and a serious threat to both our families from this point on.

* I realize that Rat Meat is still working for you on the work project, and that he’s had to reconstruct his analysis results because OMW deleted his computer files when she found out about your affair in May. I can accept that you need his input to finish the report for the recent project, but I cannot accept your insistence that YOU must handle the correspondence with him. You should have either coworker that knows about A or other coworker handle all correspondence with Rat Meat from now on. I personally am not impressed with his ability to deliver a quality product to you in a reasonable time, and feel that your desire to continue using his consulting services is doing your career a tremendous disservice. I would prefer you NOT use his services for any future projects with <company name>. But, if you’ve already subcontracted him to do the work and you can’t stop funding his subcontract, show me some respect by ensuring that you have NO direct correspondence with him whatsoever. Again, let one of your coworkers handle the correspondence. Remember, you had said, back before OMW found out about your affair, that you planned to hand over all communication to coworker that knows about A after the current report was finished. An even better idea would be for you to find another job, and let your successor at <company name> deal with Rat Meat.

* Since OMW threw Rat Meat out when she learned of your affair in May, Rat Meat has begun pressuring you to consider a working relationship with his museum to support your own project. I believe this is a transparent attempt on his part to entice you back into your affair with him. You acknowledged that this is probably the case when we discussed it after our counseling session on D’s birthday. I cannot accept this. If rebuilding our marriage and protecting our family is important to you, I need you to take some extraordinary precautions to protect me and our family from further hurt due to continued contact with Rat Meat:

* 1) If you have not yet hired Rat Meat to work on these upcoming projects, DO NOT hire him. Get someone else to do that work, or do some other analysis.
2) If you HAVE already hired Rat Meat for these projects, FIRE HIM NOW.
3) If you have already hired him to work on these projects, and you CAN’T fire him, QUIT YOUR JOB. You aren’t happy with <company name> anyway.
4) DO NOT have Rat Meat involved in your own project, in any way, whatsoever.
5) We need to write a “No Contact” letter that we can both agree on and sign, to Rat Meat, instructing him to stay out of your life for the rest of your life. We should send this letter to Rat Meat, to OMW, and to Rat Meat’s boss. I want it clear to them that if this “proposal opportunity” he mentioned to you gets supported, that he is NOT to be involved with you in any way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The 5 paragraphs above can go.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Until you agree to sever contact with Rat Meat, </strong>take steps to ensure contact is not made again<strong>, and commit to recovery of our marriage, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. I will have my paycheck deposited into a new account that you will not have access to. As soon as I can make the transfer, I expect you to take over the responsibility for your car payments. If there is a family emergency or anything related to the house that we must discuss, it will have to be done through Valerie or your mom, or you may contact me via email or voice mail. I encourage you to visit your family when you need to and when it is convenient to do so. But I will need to be informed as to when you plan to visit, so that I can arrange to be elsewhere.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds here like you're telling her SHE must leave the house. If that is what you want to say, maybe you should make it clearer; unless you feel sure she will understand this from your phrasing.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this manner. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Rat Meat, and your continued lies about contact. I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing you are continuing to contact him intentionally without my knowledge. I will not fight for our marriage alone anymore. I am worn out and my work performance is suffering as a result. I still love you, but I cannot see you under these conditions any longer

As soon as you are willing to permanently sever all contact from Rat Meat, I will be willing to talk about our future, and the future of our family. I truly want to be able to rebuild our M someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I have spent most of my life in love with you. I loved you when you came out to visit me in Rock Point in the summer of 1974. I’ll never forget that walk we had in the red rock canyons outside Rock Point for the rest of my life. That was the first time we held hands. I still get that same thrill, holding hands with you now. It is sad, but I just cannot be with you or help you anymore as long as you are continuing any kind of relationship with Rat Meat.

With all my love,
2long.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While Harley recommends this paragraph to be added to the OP's copy of the letter, I don't think you should tell him what he needs to do. Just that you intend to get your W back and that you will do everything you can to do that. He will get the message. As to whether to copy the OMW on this, I don't know; maybe it will create more pressure for him? and that could be good. Not sure about that...

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Rat F***ing Meat:
I love my W with all my heart and soul and will do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance. I think you should do the same for your W and your two boys. You need to cease any and all efforts to contact my wife for the rest of your life. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ July 20, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

I never did a Plan B, but I think I understand the principles involved. I thought the gist of a Plan B letter is supposed to be, stated in your own words:
1.) I love you and want to work on our marriage, But:
2.) I cannot continue to live the way things are, because your continued contact w/ OM is too painful for me to bear any longer.
3.) I am ready to resume working on our marriage, if you want to as well, as soon as you discontinue all contact w/ OM.

The main emphasis is supposed to be on you protecting yourself so you will have enough energy and motivation to continue working on the marriage if that is possible, and the conditions necessary for doing that.

I understand that there may be some details about contact regarding work on the existing project you may not be able to avoid, because of your unique situation.

Now, I also know a real issue is that you feel you are the only one working on the marriage. It may be that that also needs to be addressed, but I do not see how you can without making a DJ. She probably thinks that by ceasing the PA, she IS working on your marriage. Perhaps there are others who can suggest something.

The Plan B letter also must involve setting some boundaries, and probably should include decisions about living arrangements. Those things have legal implications you simply must consider before sending it. Much better to get it right the first time rather than having to re-do it weeks or months later.

BTW, I loved the "I have spent" paragraph, too. Definitely keep it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>I plan to do this. The living arrangements issue is a little uncertain with me. One idea, that my W would probably WANT me to try, is making living space in our garage (under the guest house), or with my MIL in the guest house. Or, I could probably get the gas turned on in the house so I'd have hot water, run the power from the garage so I'd have light... but I don't want to be near her. Too easy for her to "break" plan B by coming over (our rental is across the street from our house).

I could probably stay for an extended period with my coworker - the one everybody got worried about in March because she's female. Well, she's also ten years older than I am, has been DV'd twice and isn't any more interested in me than I am in her. She's got a two-bedroom house near work, and she'd offered before.

Another option would be to stay with a male coworker, but he's leaving for a new job at the end of the month, and even if his apartment is available, it's money and I'd rather see if it's something I want before I agree to rent it.

The third option is to talk to our realtor, who worked with us on 3 separate occasions now and was who my W was talking to about buying a rental house in the past few months. She manages rentals as part of her realtor business, and under the circumstances I think she'd be very helpful. And she's fast.

But the best option by far would be to get my W to agree to move out, so that I could be with my son (remember, my D is leaving in a few days for 5 months). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have plenty of options about living arrangements, so you'll be fine. I'm NOT sure moving in with a female co-worker, no matter WHAT the circumstances, is a good idea at all. And you need to decide whether you want WW to leave or if you'll leave.

Perhaps you can indicate this in the Plan B letter. Something like "Under the circumstances, I believe you should move out until you are ready to fully commit to our M. But if you do not, then I will find other living arrangements for myself".

Maybe others have suggestions about this?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I will call my IC at work on Monday. She had given me a couple of attorney names back in March. Like the optimist that I am, I thought we were going to do fine on our own, so I didn't keep the numbers (unless they're still written down somewhere in my office - I'll check today).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good; maybe some CA Lawyers here at MB can also chime in...?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
SC: "Might just be the jolt she needs."

<strong>2L: Gawd, I sure hope so. The anti-M remarks, the really brutal attack on my need for SF the other night, and the insistence on her privacy and Rat Meat friendship have been too much this week. And though I've been tired this week, I've been amazingly calm about it all, considering. So, in many ways I do believe that this is the time to try to wake her up. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, we won't know this yet, but it certainly was looking like Plan B was going to be the option you needed to take, and if it came the way it came, make the best of it, and hope for a positive outcome.

I strongly suspect it will be a VERY serious message that she will find hard to ignore. Whether she'll move in the desired direction or the opposite, we don't know yet, but we'll know soon.

However: Let me state right here that in the first few days, her anger/frustration MAY indicate she is going to move in the opposite direction we intend. DO NOT take this as final, be prepared for it, but give her a little bit of time to start showing her REAL intentions. It is likely her first reaction will be to lash out and say F--- It! But as the days go by, she'll start to calm down, think, and maybe start de-fogging upon facing this very real reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
SC: "Regardless, we're here for you, I'll be around all weekend (you have my number), and start getting some support network together (Family, friends, co-workers, other people you can start seeing and talking to)"

<strong>2L: I will definitely post a lot. I can go to my office for the day and get some more work caught up at the same time. I'm going to have to think about the family support issues. A couple of my sisters live within an hour or so of here. One, I see on holidays, but she's got a very rigid family life and really wouldn't be helpful. The other has major problems of her own. The other two live up north. The first is an 8hr drive away, the other 11 hrs. They're both good people, but my 8r sister's H passed away a few years ago and she's still getting her life back together. The other one is the one I'll probably eventually talk to the most, as she loves my W too. My dad turned 85 on Pepper's birthday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and lives near the 8r sister. I'd rather not bother him with this stuff. He's doing okay, but he's starting to go. My mom passed away 6 years ago.

The coworker that offered a stay at her place would be a good person to talk to as well, but she's definitely not up on MB - thinks things like flirting are harmless (but I guess a lot of people do). Said some of the wrong things back in March, innocently enough, but I was able to recognize they wouldn't be helpful advice and so didn't take them. She's having a party at her house tonight, which my W and I were invited to, so I'd have to stay at a hotel tonight, at least. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even if the coworker doesn't get MB, it doesn't matter, you don't need people around you for advice about this as much as you need company, someone to vent to, other scenery, activities, whatever. You have plenty of MB support here, and with the other MB people you can call and/or visit.

Hang in there, buddy. We'll get through this!

I am sorry 2Long, I know exactly what you mean about the trigger issues on Farscape. I love the show too and I was watching yesterday. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

"I would trust you with my life, but I wouldn't trust you with my heart"

"I thought the relationship we had was based on trust..."

Ouch ouch ouch...

Hit too close to home, and I was already in a funk. I was lucky though and when my H noticed the topic he felt bad himself and nothing exploded... too much.

I agree you did well on leaving. Your WW is definitely BIG on cake eating. Gosh that cloning remark was terrible, awful, tasteless and disrespectful. Chriton got cloned and he wasn't happy about it, was he? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Anyways I am going off in the subject.

The plan B letter may sound too "demanding" for a WS in such deep fog as your W's. Edit and look for the lawyer, protect yourself and do not expect her to fall off the fence or drop the cake she's stuffing her face with, because she won't, or so do I think.

You have tried your best plan A, man you even kept the info regarding the e-mails you found!!! I wouldn't have been able to, I think someone would have been real hurt right now if I had been on your situation.

I think you not wanting to be around her is clear. I don't think she should move out of the house though. Ratbleepingstinkymeat is out there and she could run to him once she is out of the family home.

I hate when WS say that kind of hurtful things. My WH was intelligent (and feared for his life I guess), and he just looked at me with puppy eyes and mouthed "I am sorry".

I had to cool off myself and walked out to fetch dinner.

(((((((((((((Hugglez)))))))))))

Okay folks. I'm pasting the revised letter as it stands now. Please give me any and all thoughts you have regarding how to word this and when to deliver it.

Thanks,
2long.

Dear W:

I apologize to you for my part in creating your dissatisfaction with our marriage that led to your decision to have an affair with Rat Meat. Although I've ALWAYS loved you, more than you can imagine, I must have made you feel that everything that I do for myself was more important to me than you are. It never was the case, but I can see now that that is how I made you feel and for that I am truly sorry.

I said and did many things out of feelings of hurt that I can assure you I never meant to hurt you with. I wish I didn’t have that tendency to clam up and withdraw when you were trying to reach out to me, but unfortunately I can’t undo what’s happened. If I had known what I know now, I truly believe that we would never have become withdrawn from each other, and you would not have felt the need for companionship from Rat Meat. Instead, we would retaliate and hurt each other when we felt hurt, consciously or subconsciously, and I know that was wrong. I have learned this is wrong and through the counseling I am getting, I believe that I am learning to change that behavior into something positive. I have also learned not to internalize things so much. This is still hard for me but I am trying. And I also need to recognize when to be patient and not burden you with my problems if you aren’t ready to work with me on them.

Until you agree to sever contact with Rat Meat, take steps to ensure contact is not made again, and commit to recovery of our marriage, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. I will have my paycheck deposited into a new account that you will not have access to. As soon as I can make the transfer, I expect you to take over the responsibility for your car payments. If there is a family emergency or anything related to the house that we must discuss, it will have to be done through D or your mom, or you may contact me via email or voice mail. We still need to decide which one of us stays at the house, and which one of us should move out. If you move, I encourage you to visit your family when you need to and when it is convenient to do so. But I will need to be informed as to when you plan to visit, so that I can arrange to be elsewhere. If I move out, I will likewise need to visit with our family and so I will need you to not be there when I am.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this manner. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Rat Meat, and your continued lies about contact. I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing you are continuing to contact him intentionally without my knowledge. I will not fight for our marriage alone anymore. I am worn out and my work performance is suffering as a result. I still love you, but I cannot see you under these conditions any longer

I have spent most of my life in love with you. I loved you when you came out to visit me in Rock Point in the summer of 1974. I’ll never forget that walk we had in the red rock canyons outside Rock Point for the rest of my life. That was the first time we held hands. I still get that same thrill, holding hands with you now. It is sad, but I just cannot be with you or help you anymore as long as you are continuing any kind of relationship with Rat Meat.

With all my love,
2long.

Rat Meat:
I love my W with all my heart and soul and will do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance.

2long,

Regarding your W's comments...

I've heard variations on these, too. "I want you both", "I want it all", blah blah blah. Typical fogese. Your ACTIONS are now going to back up that she's NOT GOING TO GET HER WAY. Good.

Regarding you B letter...

Looks like you posted your revision before I got in my comments here... I'll include them anyhow, although it looks like you've already got things under control...

I agree with the others' comments about removing portions that are unnecessary at this stage. You might also want to consider the following:

Before: As soon as you are willing to permanently sever all contact from Rat Meat, I will be willing to talk about our future, and the future of our family.

After: As soon as you are willing to permanently sever all contact from Rat Meat, I will be open to talking about our future, and the future of our family.

Subtle, but makes you seem a little less of a "sure thing". I've seen (in my case also) that these WS's will sometimes fence sit even while hurting in Plan B, if they believe they can just waltz back into our lives... This revision hopefully shows that YOU have some power of choice here also... after a certain length of time (as determined by you), you will no longer WANT to reconcile - that's one of the purposes of the Plan, don't forget.

Before: You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Rat Meat, and your continued lies about contact.

After: You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Rat Meat.

Although we all know she's lied through her teeth, it could be interpreted as a DJ at this time. There's a time to talk about the lies and deception, but since this is the last thing she's got to remember you by, "make it clean" - a love letter ONLY. Think of it this way... the Plan B letter is the "last act of Plan A" - and so, you may feel doormatish (?) a bit in suppressing even just perceived LB's, but that's the way it works sometimes - Steve has told me that many times. You're either in A or B.

Before: Until you agree to sever contact with Rat Meat and commit to recovery of our marriage, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you.

After: Until you agree to sever contact with Rat Meat and commit to recovery of our marriage, I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you.

Again, subtle but by conveying it as a personal "need," it might seem less like a punishment... I don't know... that's a pretty minor one.

Regarding what you can expect...

If she knows anything about MB and Plan B, it could be greeted with skepticism, like you're playing a game. You may need to reinforce your position a few times, as some contact will be inevitable, likely... if contact does occur after you're in Plan B, it's okay to let her know that the contact is difficult / painful for you. (Well, that was SH's advice to me, anywho.)

As SC said, she might use the opportunity to be angry, or back off more, etc. It needs some time to "take effect"... I know my WW is miserable right now, and that's while she gets full access to OM... scary how accurate the story of Sue/Jon/Greg is in SAA, for me at least... WW's depression, the suicidal thoughts, etc. - all of it. (EXCEPT... Sue in SAA was happy enough to not have Jon around in Plan B... I know WW is missing me.)

Remember that rock bottom is not a pretty place, and it's pretty far down - just when you think they're there, it seems like it's that much further away!

This is your time to shine, in a way. It's a time for you to take back your life and your self-respect.

Of course there are no promises in life (in terms of what she'll do), but it sounds like you're reaching a point of acceptance where this makes perfect sense.

Alostwife:

Yeah, it was after that first remark in Farscape that I had to leave the room.

Didn't say anything, just left. What's funny is that, in all probability, nothing would have happened between us if I hadn't done that. But then I think about the fact that we sat on separate couches, whereas we ususally snuggle when we watch that show. Then, the convo that got me packing happened a good hour or so later, and probably would have happened pretty soon anyway.

So, I don't feel bad about choosing to leave. Still having a bit of a tough time lining up a place to stay for a while. Am considering moving stuff to the garage at our house, or even setting up something in the house itself (which is nice and private, what with the security fence around the property. I'd also be able to watch it better (we had a burglary a couple of months ago). Trouble is obvious, though. I'd run into my W from time to time, especially on weekends.

Okay.

Very minor changes since J.R.'s comments.

Anybody have a good idea as to when I should send this?

h'DOING!! I forgot to past it in!!!

Follows:

Dear W:

I apologize to you for my part in creating your dissatisfaction with our marriage that led to your decision to have an affair with Rat Meat. Although I've ALWAYS loved you, more than you can imagine, I must have made you feel that everything that I do for myself was more important to me than you are. It never was the case, but I can see now that that is how I made you feel and for that I am truly sorry.

I said and did many things out of feelings of hurt that I can assure you I never meant to hurt you with. I wish I didn’t have that tendency to clam up and withdraw when you were trying to reach out to me, but unfortunately I can’t undo what’s happened. If I had known what I know now, I truly believe that we would never have become withdrawn from each other, and you would not have felt the need for companionship from Rat Meat. Instead, we would retaliate and hurt each other when we felt hurt, consciously or subconsciously, and I know that was wrong. I have learned this is wrong and through the counseling I am getting, I believe that I am learning to change that behavior into something positive. I have also learned not to internalize things so much. This is still hard for me but I am trying. And I also need to recognize when to be patient and not burden you with my problems if you aren’t ready to work with me on them.

Until you agree to sever contact with Rat Meat, take steps to ensure contact is not made again, and commit to recovery of our marriage, I will need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. I will have my paycheck deposited into a new account that you will not have access to. As soon as I can make the transfer, I expect you to take over the responsibility for your car payments. If there is a family emergency or anything related to the house that we must discuss, it will have to be done through D or your mom, or you may contact me via email or voice mail. We still need to decide which one of us stays at the house, and which one of us should move out. If you move, I encourage you to visit your family when you need to and when it is convenient to do so. But I will need to be informed as to when you plan to visit, so that I can arrange to be elsewhere. If I move out, I will likewise need to visit with our family and so I will need you to not be there when I am.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this manner. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Rat Meat. I simply cannot be with you any longer. I will not fight for our marriage alone anymore. I am worn out and my work performance is suffering as a result. I still love you, but I cannot see you under these conditions any longer

I have spent most of my life in love with you. I loved you when you came out to visit me in Rock Point in the summer of 1974. I’ll never forget that walk we had in the red rock canyons outside Rock Point for the rest of my life. That was the first time we held hands. I still get that same thrill, holding hands with you now. It is sad, but I just cannot be with you or help you anymore as long as you are continuing any kind of relationship with Rat Meat.

With all my love,
2long.

Rat Meat:
I love my W with all my heart and soul and will do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance.

<small>[ July 20, 2002, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

2Long,

I have been following this entire ordeal, but not replying because I do not have any advice to you BUT...

I first hope that I do not have to go through what you are now. But if I do, I can only hope to have as much resolve, courage, LOVE for my WW as you. I believe you eximplify (spl?) what true love means and you have proven that by the way you are dealing/handling the situation at hand.

You.........I just dont know what to say........are more strong than I think I could ever be. And I hope the best for you.

I Love You. (By the way, I am very hetrosexual)

wwl

WWL:

I think if you looked back a few months, you'd see just how much this forum, and the people on it, have helped prepare me for this day. I sure had hoped that it would never come to this, but it has.

If and when the time comes for you to make a similar step, you will have the support of all these wonderful people to help pull you through!

All my best,

I think you need to get all your ducks in a row before you deliver the letter.

[*]Place to stay, organized, set up.
[*]All the stuff you'll want/need (clothes, books, computer, toys, whatever...)
[*]Consult lawyer about financial/family issues, change plan and/or letter accordingly.
[*]Financial matters; new account, direct deposit change, etc.
[*]Make arrangements to get your mail, bills, etc.
[*]Call forwarding if you have "your" phone line at home
[*]Speak with the kids, make communications arrangements with them, let them know how/when/whatever they need to know.

There's probably more, but these'll get you started.

SC:

"I think you need to get all your ducks in a row before you deliver the letter."

I agree. I think that there's too likely a possibility that I'll have to talk to her on the phone in the next couple of days. Not because I'll answer when she calls (I don' t plan to) but because I don't know when she's home and not home, and I will need to talk to my son and my MIL. My D has a cell phone, but she's leaving for London on Thursday, so she'll be out of touch except when she calls or emails me.

"[*]Place to stay, organized, set up."

This is the toughey. I still don't know whether I'll stay at the house (across from rental) or try to share a place with a coworker (I'll do the "male coworker thing", preferably).

"[*]All the stuff you'll want/need (clothes, books, computer, toys, whatever...)"

And getting them is the problem right now. My W did go to the swap meet like she said, but could get back at any time now, so I can't go this afternoon.

"[*]Consult lawyer about financial/family issues, change plan and/or letter accordingly."

This is a good idea. I found the numbers that my IC gave me, so I can call them first thing Monday. One is a family lawyer, the other a family mediator. I think M. Weiner-Davis recommends the mediator route. Any suggestions?

"[*]Financial matters; new account, direct deposit change, etc."

Yep.

"[*]Make arrangements to get your mail, bills, etc."

They still get delivered to our house address. My MIL has been picking them up and bringing them down to the rental before we get home from work. When I get the account changed, I could ask her to save the bills for me to pick up.

Another possibility here, though, would be to let my W continue to take care of the bills and keep having my check deposited the way it is, but only if she's the one staying in the rental with my son. I would probably change the amount that I have transferred directly into my credit union account, and then get a checking account set up with them for my own expenses while I'm away from the house. I could then tell my W about the change in my deposit amount, so that she could make up the difference with her own salary.

Reason this might work is that, so far as I can tell, she never spent money on OM, and he never spent any on her. Just clandestine rendezvous when one of them was out of town.

"[*]Call forwarding if you have "your" phone line at home"

I have my cell phone only. I wish I could plug my computer into it!

"[*]Speak with the kids, make communications arrangements with them, let them know how/when/whatever they need to know."

When I called my son a little while ago to tell him that the flight trainer wouldn't be available tomorrow, I asked him whether his mom said anything to him. Apparently not much. Certainly, she didn't tell him about the A. Soon, she will need to. I won't force it now, though, or tell him myself, because I'd like her to think of this as an opportunity to end the R with Rat Meat and avoid having to inform other family members what happened.

"There's probably more, but these'll get you started."

Thanks, SC!

I also thought of a good reason NOT to contact OMW, that others might want to consider.

Many of MY M'd friends have joint email accounts, like H&W@hotmail.com or something like that. Since classmates.com doesn't show the addresses, I would have no idea whether she got any message I might send, or if he would intercept it. If he's crafty, he could reply pretending to be his W, to get me riled or get info out of me.

So, I'd rather not.

2L;
First of all, I don't see why you would not have SOME contact with WW over the next couple of days as you finish making Plan B arrangements and deliver the letter. No contact should really start AFTER you deliver the letter. Of course, you have to keep it short, businesslike, and certainly NOT get into any type of confrontation.

I mean, do what you need to do to get your stuff together, you're still going to have to talk about kids, finances, etc. afterwards, so don't make getting the arrangements set up any more difficult for yourself by not having any contact with her.

Especially since you still need to decide who stays and who goes, and based on that decision you have to make different financial arrangements, I think it's inevitable for some pretty steady contact at least for a few days until all this stuff is settled.

As to an attorney or mediator, I have no suggestion except make SURE you are aware of the law, and plan your moves accordingly. You don't want to weaken your position in a potential divorce later on by making a mistake now regarding abandonment, or financial support, or something like that. Follow Plan B, but make sure you're within the law; even if it means sacrificing some Plan B details.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>I also thought of a good reason NOT to contact OMW, that others might want to consider.

So, I'd rather not.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forget the OMW for now. You have other things to take care of.