H4F:

Question. Do I stay away until I've talked to SH? Do I go home and agree not to talk to W? I don't think so, but now that I'm going through the emotional upheaval that I've read about EVERYBODY else going through at this stage, I can't supress my doubts about what I'm doing!

But, my question now is: Should I send my W an email telling her that I've requested an appointment at MB, and would she like to participate when they give me a time? Or, should I do this by myself first, then see about involving her when SH says?

Thanques,

Yikes 2long, I go away for a couple of days and your thread has added 8 pages! Ok, I've got some reading to do!

2long: I filled out the email form on the Counseling Center page!

JR: I did that initially too, but didn't get any response... so I ended up calling the 1-888 number. If you don't hear from anyone by Wednesday, give 'em a call directly. They're on CST.

2long: I cried while filling out the comments section.

JR: No-one's going to fault you for that, or anything else for that matter. It's a hard time, now... but it DOES get better.

2long: My cell phone rang, was ID'd as my W, and I was going to answer it, but it stopped ringing and there's no message.

JR: This is going to be the hardest part (or close to it)... hanging onto your boundaries. I do believe in not being too available, and getting them to obey "your rules" (e.g. mine include e-mail only).

2long: I want OUR life back!!!

JR: Well, here's the crux of it... you'll never have your old life back... and that's "a good thing", right? I mean, you don't want to live in a situation where you know your W is having an A "in your face"... so whatever happens, you'll never have to suffer that ever again. So even though things are going to be extremely hard for the next few weeks, keep that in mind... you're doing this for a reason, you're waiting for her to catch up to you in the recovery process, and you need to take care of yourself. Stay strong...

espoir:

Sorry about that. I'm "in exile" aka plan B of sorts (not coached yet), so I've got lots of time staring at my laptop. And I'm one of those guys that, faced with a problem, shuts everything else out in an effort to focus on the problem - and this one's a DOOZEY.

Wish I wasn't in this sitch.

"Question. Do I stay away until I've talked to SH?"

My opinion would be yes. I have no idea what he'll advise at that point, but if it's Plan B, atleast you're already technically there...and not jumping back and forth from I'm out, I'm kinda in, I'm out again...

"Do I go home and agree not to talk to W?"

No way, that will only add fuel to the fire and certainly not help YOU at all. And that's the point, yes...to focus on helping YOU?

"I don't think so, but now that I'm going through the emotional upheaval that I've read about EVERYBODY else going through at this stage, I can't supress my doubts about what I'm doing!"

There are doubts at every stage. Even if wife agrees wholely to everything you ask of her...you will probably have doubts as to whether or not you still want to do the work...or doubts to her sincerity etc etc... Life is full of "what if's"...you just learn to go with the flow.

"But, my question now is: Should I send my W an email telling her that I've requested an appointment at MB, and would she like to participate when they give me a time?"

I don't think so...she'll see that as you still "trying" or looking to educate her. She's already responded negatively to MB...why not do this for yourself first. If Steve wants to bring her in on it..fine...otherwise just leave it be for now.

"Or, should I do this by myself first, then see about involving her when SH says?"

Yup, that would be my suggestion. Plan B is about cutting out contact, which I know you can't do completely because of planning that has to be done...but the longer you can remain out of contact, the more she's going to start to get the point you're serious.

2long,

I am no expert but I think it's a good idea to tell your WS that you're trying to make an appt and to invite (not expect) her to join you. I think it's the least you could do for BOTH of you since NEITHER of you had any notice that your situation would change so suddenly and so drastically--and if were me I would tell my WS this was the reason for the invitation (not demand).

H4F:

I know, intellectually, that I need to stay away for now. I'll do that. I actually may go to a hotel again for tonight so as to avoid another almost-encounter like the one this morning.

H4F, YA:

Hm... differing opinions as to whether I should tell my W about my request for an appt with SH. I guess I need more feedback on that one. I honestly don't know what to do here.

Aside: I guess I'm surprising myself today. Despite the emotions I'm going through, I've got more done on a map I've been working on just this weekend than I've been able to get done in the past month, due to all the conflicts going through my head.

I guess that's what the purpose of plan B is right now.

2long,

Conflicting opinions between me and h4f??? Two things for you to consider: One, h4f is a seasoned MBer with good insight, experience, and advise; Two, my sitch sucks right now.

That help ya??? ROFL

LOL...I'm SEASONED now? What flavor am I, do I get to pick??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2long...no matter WHAT you decide, it's NOT the wrong answer...and not 100% right either. So don't sweat it...you can't get it totally wrong.

Do you understand what I mean???

<small>[ July 21, 2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

H4F:

"LOL...I'm SEASONED now? What flavor am I, do I get to pick??? "

I think you're entitled, but I always was partial to that "Crazy Mixed Up Salt" my mom used to get. Worked great for salads and hamburgers alike!.

"2long...no matter WHAT you decide, it's NOT the wrong answer...and not 100% right either. So don't sweat it...you can't get it totally wrong.
Do you understand what I mean???"

Do YOU understand what you mean? LOL! Actually, yes, I do understand. I'll cogitate and post my thoughts, certainly before I say anything to her.

J.R.:

"2long: I want OUR life back!!!
JR: Well, here's the crux of it... you'll never have your old life back... and that's "a good thing", right? I mean, you don't want to live in a situation where you know your W is having an A "in your face"... so whatever happens, you'll never have to suffer that ever again. So even though things are going to be extremely hard for the next few weeks, keep that in mind... you're doing this for a reason, you're waiting for her to catch up to you in the recovery process, and you need to take care of yourself. Stay strong..."

You're right. I certainly don't want anything like the last 12 years back. And now, when I think back on the past 6 months and realize just how worthless our Kaiser Cing has been, and that my W has been cakewalking the whole time because she COULD and felt (or discovered) that I would LET her, I do recognize that I need to stay away and let her put things into perspective on her own.

My MIL and I were talking about this last night. My W has a tendency to "keep busy" doing things, things that don't always need doing or make sense, to avoid standing still and THINKING. She does this at home AND at work. When I've been home, for several years now, I've been inclined to help out with projects that SHE thinks need doing, one right after the other with seldom any time between to relax. Apparently yesterday, my W was running around doing things all afternoon, like nothing had changed. So, if I were to go home now, I'd definitely send the wrong message - I'd end up doing something for her and help her continue to put off the important reflection she needs to do.

H4F: I know, I know... I'm doing what J.R. did early in his plan B, I'm "following" my W around!! I'm going to try not to think too much about what she's doing and get back to work on that map!

2long, I'm sorry to read of all the drama and turmoil going on in your life. I agree with some of the other posters that this does seem like your W's way of negotiating keeping Rat Meat in her life as a "friend". Alot of her comments sound like the fog, basically.

I know what's going on now is hard, but so is living in limbo with a spouse that is still involved in an A. Which she is, no matter what she says. Because she is addicted to the contact with Rat Meat, and wants to continue it, at the risk of your feelings and the risk to your marriage together.

Your Plan B letter is good. The only advice I have is regarding a sentence about the situation adversely affecting your work performance. I wouldn't keep that in, it makes it sound like your big concern is how it affects you workwise, as opposed to the heartbreak you are going through.

Get legal advice ASAP. And call the phone number for Steve Harley, not the e-mail- I too did not get a response by the e-mail. Call Monday- if you get their machine, leave a message with your cell phone number. They will get back to you. Also it's easier to find a convenient time for counseling. Don't discuss it with your wife, just get on the horn with Steve ASAP and get his advice as to what to do. You can always get your wife involved in the appointments later.

Your Kaiser MC sounds dubious at best. And a bad marriage counselor is worse than nothing. My H and I had a terrible one for about a month (recommended by friends who are now divorced). It is amazing how some MC's will refuse to confront the WS, or even sanction completely unacceptable behavior. This counselor actually, when my H outlined his plan to move out and spend the summer deciding between me and the OW- he said the plan was "reasonable". A good MC has to be neutral, can not attack the WS, but must establish that certain behavior is unacceptable. Fortunately we switched to a much better MC who was able to confront my H. (He was able to confront me too.)If we had continued with the first MC alot of damage would have been incurred.

I think your idea of moving into your house sounds good, even though you might see your wife in passing. It keeps you connected to the marital property. It would be best for your W to move out, but perhaps difficult. Could your son move with you?

Hey kiddo ... how's it hangin'? (left the door wide open for the muth'a of all puns didn't I ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Glad to have the chance to talk with ya yesterday. The folks at the nursery had an earfull while I was standing in line!

I kind-a like the idea of your staying in your house across the street from the rental. It keeps you closer to your kids ... especially the younger one. It keeps you from legally appearing as if you abandoned the family. It keeps you on her radar screen ... and you can walk around in your devil may care 'tude with an audience. Start strutin' your goodies 2Long .... if ya got 'em ... flaunt 'em! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I think C'ing with SH is just about the smartest move you could make right now. So, until you get your first appointment ... I think you can Plan A from across the street. You are not in plan B yet. SH should give you the *bestest * and *goodeder* advice about the timing of a clean break "B" if that becomes necessary.

YOU 'da man ...... You are going to learn much and be the king of her heart ... just be patient grasshopper! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pepperino <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Oh ... I forgot!

Mr. Pepper is at Costco as we speak ... he's gonna buy me a TV <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I think I need to catch up on my Sci-Fi.

Toodles! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

espoir:

And being in the house will let me do things for myself that involve my tools, toys, computer and other things that would take too much effort to move to an apartment, unless it's for the long term (and I'm getting tired of the moves! Just moving from house to replacement rental since the fire has involved 3 moves for my family and 3 others for my MIL - I'm tired of talking to realtors and insurance people!!).

The house has no electricity or gas right now. and the stove was removed to storage. I could probably get the gas turned on so I could have hot water, but the wiring needs to be completely replaced. I could run power from the garage, I suppose, though and there's a fridge in the basement. I may do this, but I'd be in the way of the contractor part of the time. For now, I'll use the guest house until I can set something up in the house.

I'd really prefer not to rent something else, and since I'm still paying for the mortgage on the house, I might as well stay in it. If somebody tries to break in, I can bark pretty good!

Pepper:

"Hey kiddo ... how's it hangin'? (left the door wide open for the muth'a of all puns didn't I ? )"

Boy you sure did!! 2long: "2long, and a bit2theleft! Why thank you, thank you very much." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"Glad to have the chance to talk with ya yesterday. The folks at the nursery had an earfull while I was standing in line!"

Did they have any suggestions?

"I kind-a like the idea of your staying in your house across the street from the rental. It keeps you closer to your kids ... especially the younger one. It keeps you from legally appearing as if you abandoned the family. It keeps you on her radar screen ... and you can walk around in your devil may care 'tude with an audience. Start strutin' your goodies 2Long .... if ya got 'em ... flaunt 'em!"

I will try this. It should work okay, so long as my W understands that she's to "leave me alone."

"I think C'ing with SH is just about the smartest move you could make right now. So, until you get your first appointment ... I think you can Plan A from across the street. You are not in plan B yet. SH should give you the *bestest * and *goodeder* advice about the timing of a clean break "B" if that becomes necessary."

Thanks for the vote. I really do need to hear from the expert whether/how I'm doing with this plan B of mine. Need help making it as effective as possible, too.

"YOU 'da man ...... You are going to learn much and be the king of her heart ... just be patient grasshopper!"

Such knowledge is worth more than any fortune, Cookie!!

Pepper:

"Oh ... I forgot!
Mr. Pepper is at Costco as we speak ... he's gonna buy me a TV I think I need to catch up on my Sci-Fi.
Toodles!"

Cool!! And if you figure out how to use the remote, drop me an email with instructions!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

For instructions on remote usage I could certainly consult my 4 year old. I'm sure he'd be glad to help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And that's WHY he's qualified - he's 4 years old!!

"Why, when I was your age, we had to get up off the couch, walk over to the TV, ROTATE the tuner, stand there and wait to see if it's what we wanted to watch, THEN walk all the way back to the couch (by way of the beer in the fridge) and sit down!"