john39:

"W: of late the moment together are almost all filled with pain
and hurt, and fear not loving.
2long: That's because you took a chainsaw, ripped my chest wide flat open with it, cut out my still-beating heart with your bare hands and a dull putty knife, held it up, and now you're expecting me stand here quietly and LOOK at it!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually like this one a lot better than your non-sarcastic one. This may seem weird, but it strikes me as less judgemental, somehow. More emotionaly honest.
"

I think I would agree with you about this. I actually toyed with the idea of sending her some humorous version of that sarcastic reply instead of the heaviosity one. But decided not to.

Was fun to dream, though...

I want to ask you folks something.

I seem to be always wanting to explain myself to my W via massive tomes that explain, in excruciating detail, everything I'm feeling. You folks want me to say one or two-word pronouncements. I GET just a few sentences at a time FROM my W. I think there's 2much of an opportunity for misunderstanding with 2short (as opposed to 2long) a message.

For instance, when my W said "how can it be a union when you make the important decisions without me?", I interpreted that as referring to my decision to not sign any offers on another house. Maybe that was it. But, it also may have been referring to my leaving, because I didn't ask her to POJA that decision with me, I just left.

I don't suppose it matters a whole lot either way, but the fact that I don't KNOW what she was referring to because the message was so short is telling, to me at least.

I'm still tempted to point out HER unilateral decision to retain Rat Meat after D-day. I sure think that should have been POJA'd.

John39;
We are both saying the very same thing. They know the truth IF they choose to look inside for it, but they don't choose to do that, so their "truth" is what they have made up in their minds as justification, and they come to believe it. But that does not mean they don't really get it, it just means they choose no to as self-protection.

Most WSs that have posted here recognize that this is indeed the case. There comes a time when they DO realize their delusions, and ask themselves "how could I have done that?". But that comes later, much later.

And the more important point; WE cannot educate them to this. As we cannot educate them on almost anything. They will have to find their own way there; we may perhaps be able to influence WHERE they can look, but no more than that.

So, 2L; it makes no sense to write elaborate, detailed explanations or answers as you suggest. They are not ready to hear it, so it's a waste of time and an LB. There will come a time for that; later.

I agree with Spacecase, it is a waste of time to write lengthy detailed letters about your feelings right now.

I tried when my xWH was on withdrawal, he'd just look at them and then sigh as if I was a nut or something, then just take the bits he wanted and make something up with it.

Your WW wants to be scientific, then let the scientific notation and abreviations bite her in the very butt. She wants an exact answer, so give her one, one she cannot turn around or jump over.

If she chooses not to understand that is her problem. She is NOT stupid, and as I said dislexya has nothing to do with being an a$$. If she wants to pretend she cannot understand well spoken English or true logic it is her own downfall.

Believe me when I said you are doing your very best and you should be proud of all the well written and thought answers you have sent.

Okay, I see the sense in all this.

I think I'm going to have to acknowledge the simple fact that I can't keep this up without getting help in the way of ADs. I just came from a proposal design meeting where I could hardly focus on the task at hand. Didn't hear half of what was said. Then got to my office and got a reminder email that I'd forgotten to answer a couple of weeks ago.

I'm so damned tired of all this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Passionate Marriage

Here are the chapter titles .... to spur you on!

>Nobody's ready for marriage - Marriage makes you ready for marriage
>Differentiation: Developing a self-in-relation
>Your sexual potential : Electric Sex !
>Intimacy is not for the faint of heart
>Sexual desire : Who wants to want?
>Hugging till relaxed
>Love and foreplay aren't blind, unless you insist on it
>Eyes open orgasm: making contact during sex
>Where's your head during sex? Mental demensions of sexual experiences
>F_ing, doing, and being done. It isn't what you do , it's the way you do it
>Two-choice dilemmas and normal marital sadism
>Hold on to yourself : Your crucible survival guide
>Couples in the crucible : Reaching critical mass
>Love sex and death

Pepper
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So where can I get this!?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Actually, Pepper, if Passionate M has that much in it devoted to SF, *I'd* probably better stay AWAY from it for a while. SF isn't my TOP need, but only because the other ones are THAT important to me. I have a very strong sex drive, which has gotten me into trouble recently. Reading about it, maybe even especially since it's about enhancing M, might just kill me off, since I may not be with my W again for a long time.

Stop procrastinating, 2L; click below and order the d--n book! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I just did!

Passionate Marriage - $10.00+- @ Half.com

SC:

I'd have to call or swing by the bookstore, because I think it's an "ethics violation" to use my work computer to buy stuff online.

2darnLong ... don't be a noodle.

The book is NOT about SF ... it is not a manual with positions and techniques ... it is a relationship text book. The sexual relationship within a M is often the result of the depth of intimacy ... this book explores the ways WE block the intimacy OURSELVES ... and the ways our partners block the intimacy from their side of the situation. This book is about finding yourself as an individual and not have to move away from the intimacy to find yourself ... (ring any bells with regard to any special people in your life?)The chapter titles are fun, the information IS sexy ... but is NOT about sex so much as it is about steering your own boat and not trying to steer your partner's choices.

YOU will get this book .... or I will have to thrash you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

The final chapter "Love Sex and Death" is actually about the beauty and spirituality of sex and intimacy ... it made me cry. You will gain strength and insight with this book to be a better partner ... and I DON'T mean a better more talented schlong either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ... but a better soul to soul lover.

P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Oque, Oque Pepster!!!

I was able to beg off a time-consuming task this afternoon that I couldn't concentrate on, so I can leave early and swing by the bookstore!

Gonna try to talk to IC here (not my regular, she's off this week) to see about a prescrip for ADs, too.

Pep;

And what, pray tell, is a "schlong"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SC:

In my case, since I'm an amputee, it's my left leg!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>SC:

In my case, since I'm an amputee, it's my left leg!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good one! It just sounds like something a Jewish grandmother would say! Schlong! Is THAT what they call it these days? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Please don't mind me...I'm just relieving the built-up tension here...W's not home yet.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Just got an email message.

I am a finalist for the job I applied for.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Just got an email message.

I am a finalist for the job I applied for.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2L; this is excellent!
Yes, it adds another layer of complications, BUT it also adds OPTIONS to your repertoire. Perhaps you can match up the start of a new relationship with your W, with the start of a new and challenging career move!
The possibilities are endless!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SC:

I was thinking that I wouldn't go anywhere without my fam, and since they don't want to move, I wouldn't take the job if it's offered.

Then it occurred: If we DV, we just might be able to KEEP the house, let W and kids live in it and me keep an interest in it, and I could still take the job. ...there are lots of cute babes in that town, a University town... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now I expect to get PHWAPPED with a platycobbler or something!

"There are lots of cute babes in that town" ...

Yeah .... so? You're a guy without a schlong, remember? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />