</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Okay guys. I think I'm actually starting to hear SOME of this stuff!!!

But ol' 2long has a skull kind of like a Pachycephalosaurus - about 10 inches thickness of bone protecting my precious brain. Idn't that handy?

I always thought of it as a "feature." Now my three brain cells are starting to recognize my own stubborness at work here, keeping me from realizing the necessity of the method I've adopted. I just wonder how much of how screwed up my M is due to my thick skull all these years, versus my W's A. probably.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Man... I sure hope so... 'cause my head is starting to hurt from all the pounding YOURS is getting...

Shoot... and they call me 'stubborn as a mule.'

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hugs,
Cali

hcii:

"If she has perceived your departure as a method of "communicating a point", then to alter that state could possibly cause her to sense you as "wavering". Not good."

your 2cents is worth far more than any fortune, Cookie!!

Your point is taken. Though H4F might not think so! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

A Pachycephalosaurus, eh?

Ironic 'cause Schnarch talks about the "reptilian" part of a person's brain - that is essentially what WS's are using... (a reptile brain infected with moose brain worms)

Okay, here's my 2cents2you2getyou2stopobsessing2muchand2focusonthings2makeyoulook2yourselfworth.

You COULD try to engage WW, but why worry about it too much right now... take a break... that's what you're kind of doing. She can't hold that against you... Even if after talking to Steve he tells you to go back to Plan A, at least taking a break from WW will have recharged you a bit - or make you long to get back to Plan B! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

(BTW, my honest guess would be that Steve doesn't TELL you what to do (A vs. B) - 'cause that's not a counselor's job (or at least he hasn't TOLD me what to do - it's been pretty "dynamic")... it's usually to help you set a direction, then provide helpful insight into what to expect along that path, how to cope, etc.)

As I said before, given many signs from your WW, she does love you, and so I doubt any one single thing is going to be fatal for you... relax a bit... work on that positive mental attitude... do some reading... heck, consider taking a trip by yourself!! (yeah, my trip is still on my mind - man, it was so addictive - like a drug - oh man, maybe like an A??!!)

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

Okay, I'm going to respond to JUST ONE MORE POST, then I promise to go away for the rest of the evening and READ.

H4F:

"2long, who are you STILL focusing on?"

Uh... That'd be my lovely (though not particularly loving right now) Spousal Unit.

"Why did you send your wife yet ONE MORE "clarifying" email?"

Why does a cow $h!t through it's [censored]? I have no good answer! (just the same ol' lame ol' ones)

"What did you really think it would accomplish?"

Miracles. But it didn't, as you perhaps guessed?

"Passionate Marriage is about learning to focus on yourself. You desperatly need to get this through your 2thick head (sorry, everyone else was doing it!!)."

I realize I'm behaving dumber than a warped 4x8 sheet of 11/32" CDX plywood from the Home Despot here, but hey... (as 2dumb grasps frantically for a defensive reply)...(and fails miserably to copose one)

"I know you fear losing your wife..."

I do.

"but 2long, you sure as H3LL don't have her now."

Nor did I these past 12 years. I just didn't know it until this past weekend.

"For someone who wants things to turn around quickly...you are actually aiding to slowing down (if not seriously setting back) the process."

Okay, I can accept this, I think. I don't want to do that. I don't.

"Read the D@mn book before I have to come over there and attempt the osmosis method from the OTHER END!!!"

OOOH! That's a THICK book! (at least I bought a paperback copy!)

"Oh, and for the record...I don't think she's pondering what you wrote to her, I think she's letting you sit and check your email every 5 seconds wondering what she's thinking. Could be wrong...but it would be a first ;-) LOL!"

SEE!!! You ARE wrong!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It was no more often that 15 seconds!!! SEEE!????

Okay, I'll check only to see if there's additional insightful replies, then I'm going to SHUT THIS THING DOWN AND READ!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Heartpain:
<strong>[b]
You remember the old wives' tale don't you....feed a cold, starve a fog....

.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy HP, that is a keeper! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Which old wife concoted that one. She musta been a BS and should get a prize. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You know 2L, you are not a dinosaur. I actually know which dino you are talking about because I have all those books, movies, etc in my home (son wanted to be a paleontologist since he was 2 and now wants to dig up autobots!!! LOL! ). I would like to encourage you to pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. That way when the WS babbles (even what may appear to be positive talk) , you will still see things clearly and not jump to conclusions that are destined for disappointment.

Happens a lot here at MB. A WS will make a 1 line statement and the BS will start dancing on the board. Within a week, the WS is back to their old grouchy self and even getting a bit worse. Seems like the BS gets baited by the WS and that recharges the A.

So do you want to recharge the A? Put her deeper in the fog? I know you don't. Let her come out, all the way out to you. Find your comfortable spot, stay there. It is her job to come to you. You will see effort real effort, not questionable. It may even accompany a few backslides but the effort will eventually outweigh the steps backwards and one day you will see that you are in recovery.

JMHO,
L.

Well, it seems like I get 5 hours sleep no matter what. Went to sleep at 10, and I'm wide flat awake at 3.

Last night, started reading SAA. Got to p. 30 and thought "hey 2long, whadaya doin? You know this stuff. You've read HNHN, all the articles on the website about infidelity, literally thousands of posts..."

So I put it down and started PM. Interesting book. I'll get off here soon and resume that one instead.

5 straight hours of sleep!! WOW!!

Here is my typical night with baby teething. Three year old goes to sleep around 10:00 to 10:30 (put to bed around 9:30, typical boy, fights going to sleep). I fall asleep at around 11:30 (bad dreams of my WW and OM). Wake up to crying baby 1:30. Feed baby, back asleep around 2:30 (bad dreams again). Wake up to baby crying 4:00, feed baby a little less this time, asleep at around 4:30. Alarm goes off at 5:00, fight it for 30 minutes, time to start another day.

Sometimes, once every two weeks or so, baby skips the 1:30 feeding. I feel like I am in heaven.

Man am I envious of your 5 hours of sleep.

I'm back online after a computer crash grr! I haven't been able to read all of this thread yet but I did see what you said in reply to me

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>TD:

Thanks for your vote of confidence in me. It helps. I just wish I could feel self-confident all the time. It's hard.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2long, for years I have pounded something into my daughters heads and now I'm going to pound it into yours - brace yourself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't base your self worth on what ANYONE else thinks of you.

You do not become any less of the person you are because of somebody else's perception of you.

Don't let anyone rob you of your self esteem because some times it's really all you have.

Judge yourself only as harshly as you judge others and forgive yourself as easily as you forgive others.

I could go on but I'm sure you get the point. Your W's bad choices do not devaluate who you are and contrary to the theory of cause and effect, we are only responsible for the choices we make.

Hang in there and when you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hold tight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi TD, welcome back:

"Don't base your self worth on what ANYONE else thinks of you. "

I've actually thought I always did a pretty good job of this. Maybe I do, still. But this situation sure does cause me to have doubts. Probably because I got "comfortable" with my M, even when it wasn't great. Rereading this, I realize it probably sounds like I'm doing exactly what you're warning me against. I don't mean to give that impression. I DON'T believe that I base myself on others' thoughts of me, but I do believe that I based my self-worth on what *I* thought of how good a job I was doing as a family man. Make sense?

"You do not become any less of the person you are because of somebody else's perception of you."

I also know this. But I also realize that I valued my W's perception of me for 26 years because I valued myself based on how successful a H and father I have been. I KNOW that the A and events since D-day don't make me less a person, but they sure have altered my perception of how I "measure" my accomplishments by seeing how I'm perceived by my family. My kids and others around me have actually bolstered my self-esteem, some. To the extent that they know what has happened, it's interesting to see how I'm perceived and treated by them when "I was the one that left".

"Don't let anyone rob you of your self esteem because some times it's really all you have."

And my W is, in effect, trying to rob me of my self-esteem. Not consciously perhaps, but nonetheless. Intellectually, I know that nobody can take it away from me, but emotionally, it's another thing to hang onto it.

"Judge yourself only as harshly as you judge others and forgive yourself as easily as you forgive others."

This is the only way to live. I've always felt this way. Or thought I did.

"I could go on but I'm sure you get the point. Your W's bad choices do not devaluate who you are and contrary to the theory of cause and effect, we are only responsible for the choices we make."

Yep. It's frustrating though. I WANT to "shine the light" so my W can better make her own choices. But the fog is too thick and she's too stubborn.

"Hang in there and when you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hold tight "

I'll keep trying. At least I know now that THAT's my only reasonable choice right now.

<small>[ July 26, 2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Dear 2long.
I am lurking a lot lately, but learn so much from other people's threads - my own attitude right now stinks, IMHO - i just don't feel like trying anymore - but reading other people's posts really helps me to try to do something to get off my butt - your posts always lift my spirits - you are 2funnyforwords or is it 2funnyforyourshirt - I SOOOO wish I had your sense of humour.

hang in there - this 2 shall pass.

LIR

Dear 2long.
I am lurking a lot lately, but learn so much from other people's threads - my own attitude right now stinks, IMHO - i just don't feel like trying anymore - but reading other people's posts really helps me to try to do something to get off my butt - your posts always lift my spirits - you are 2funnyforwords or is it 2funnyforyourshirt - I SOOOO wish I had your sense of humour.

hang in there - this 2 shall pass.

LIR

LIR:

I often think that it's my sense of humor (revolting, isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) that keeps me going. This situation I find myself in is utterly discouraging at best, and if I couldn't laugh at some of it, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to even think about focusing on myself.

It's weird. My attitude stinks, too. And yet it doesn't!

"Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm schizophrenic and so am I."

2long you are 2funny lol.

Is there any way you can get away for the weekend, either alone or with your son? Maybe just somewhere away from the daily grind?

I think you need to refocus for a few days. Forget about your W and about Rat Meat, forget about all the problems in the world, shut your mind off and just enjoy the day(s).

And if I may be so blunt - you really, really need some sleep lol

P.S. You said "To the extent that they know what has happened, it's interesting to see how I'm perceived and treated by them when "I was the one that left"." Just to set the record straight - your W was the one who left, you only moved out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wonderful way to say it TinyDancer! Definetly, she is the one that left, 2long just moved out.

2long if you don't start sleeping more I promise I'll send an angry platypuss your way sheesh!

Bad bad 2long!

TD, ALW:

Yeah, I did just move out. I'd like to move back. But I won't until she stops leaving!!!

I was just talking to my MIL about what I ought to do this weekend.

One thing I need to do is call the hobby shop and see if I can take my son flying either tomorrow or Sunday. If not, I'll try to find someplace to go for the weekend.

The other thing I'd like to do, work on my Model A, might also work as well, but I would likely run into my W if I do. I may have to work on it in the evenings after work.

I'm going to check the internet for interesting diversions around here this weekend.

"Why does a cow $#it out it's @$$hole?"

I'll get back to you on that...I'm heading out to ask my cow.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Gee willikers! I'm edgy!

Got to my office a little bit ago and the message light was flashing on my phone. Hook up my laptop, turn it and the desktop on, grab my cup to head downstairs for a mug of fresh mud, and I'm thinking...

...W said last week that coworker was going out of town for a couple weeks and she could stay at her place. Is this a message from her telling me bye? Stew all the way to the swill pot, then back upstairs. Sit down, dial the vmail number, and first thing it says is that it's from outside (or it would have said "from" and the name if it was a coworker), and the time was while I was driving in, so I'm tensing up... ...and it's some coworker calling from home about a meeting monday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

See, just when I think I'm starting to gel, a stupid little thing like that gets me all a'flutter! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hi 2long,

I am just checking in, and I have to say you are getting wonderful support here.

Now........the weekend, and the son. Think about this. You will have to pick up the son.......how are you going to do this without being led into discussions with the wife? Perhaps get MIL to bring him to your house? I think that would be a good idea. Cos we all know that you are looking for some excuse to talk to WW...and believe me, and us, she ain't gonna be listening!

It isn't that long until your appointment with Steve, and I know you can keep your distance if you really want to. Allow MIL to take son home again, too, btw.

We are up to your tricks here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KEEP AWAY!!!!!!!! At least before you see Steve.

Love and light,

Jacky

The cow said "because it feels so darn good".

Now you know the REST of the story.

2long, you can actually tizzy yourself right in to a breakdown. Your head is working a mile a minute, much like mine was when I was working so hard to find the "right" answers in my life with full knowledge there was a time limit and people waiting for me to make decisions. Pressure, stress...oh yea.

My counselor taught me to just sit in a quiet room...no distractions...and work to calm my mind. It did AMAZING things for me. It's basically meditation, and it allows your brain to rest for a while, and work better when you let it kick in again. What she would have me do is try to work on thinking about nothing. That's SUPER HARD. Every time my head would pop up a thought and I'd realize I was thinking about something I'd yell at myself in my mind...QUIET, SHUSH, NO THINKING!!! It allows you to focus on something other than your current situation for a while. That's VERY important.

You need to regain control of yourself...because right now your wife has it all. By her simply doing nothing she's got you panicked and ready to do anything for her. If you want to be the marital team you hope to be...you're going to need to have control over yourself. Put your focus on you...not on her, not on this board...on you.

Nina Too:

Yes, I can send MIL down to pick up son. We both need haircuts (hairs cut?) tomorrow, so unless we fly tomorrow, that's the first order of business.

I need to stay away from spousal unit, I know. It'd be different if she had said so much as "I miss you" to me, but she hasn't. And she most definitely DOES know what she needs to do to save our M, and she hasn't. So...

...I work on the Ford and talk to Steve next week.