Thank you LIR - you are right about the fear of him coming back which I had been feelig before the A began. Yes, I know there were issues in my M other than the A. My husband has already approached Relate about CC which I have agreed to go to with him as well as my IC if needs be. He has already addressed some issues about his role in all this - although whatever he has or has not done, I do not think anything justifies the A. I also think he will forgive me, he's not really one to hang on to resentment.

Only 2 days left now before he comes back - am scared, scared, scared. I just don't think he'll understand that I still have feelings for OM - he sees that as him being second best.

On a positive front, I had lunch with my 2 step daughters today. We didn't talk much about what had happened, but we did talk on the way home, and neither of them are angry with me. The eldest seems more resentful of her father being away and leaving all of us - we seemed to get closer in the last 2 years and I think she actually feels sorry for me.

Will keep reading everything and thinking about what everyone has said - all have said get him home and talk, don't move out yet.

Thanks so much for all the advice.

Dear Lisa,
It all sounds very positive to me - maybe this will turn out to be a good thing in the end, if it brings closer and more honest communication between you and your husband. Glad your meeting with step-daughters went so well - it sounds like they have a lot of affection and respect for you.

You still sound really worried about how he will take your "still having feelings for the OM".

I think, from this site, and the reading I have done here, that your feelings for the OM are tied up with the fact that he met needs your H did not meet for you. Marriage counselling can, if its good, help you learn to communicate better and with better communication, you each have a better chance of meeting each others emotional needs. That's what this site is really about - helping couples learn how to foster love for each other, rather than just learning how to resolve conflict. OK, so right now your "feelings for OM" are in conflict with your feelings for H and position of being married. The OM wants to rebuild and heal his own marriage. You will go through the grieving process and it will take some time. You may have to go through this without your H understanding or accepting this. Do you really need him to accept this in order to move forward with him. Can you accept that this is something he may find hard to accept and just live with that for awhile?

Its like cleaning your house - it didn't get messy in a day, and if you set out to tidy it up, it is not going to get clean in a day - it will take small steps, but consistent steps over time to get your house in order. The same with your marriage. Try to accept the small steps - over time, they pile up and up on each other and build steps to the stars. You may not be able to imagine falling in love with your H again, especially if you are still holding feelings right now for OM. But with time, and consistent effort on the part of both you and your H, it can happen. Many people here can testify to that.

Will keep you in my prayers for Tuesday. All the best.

LIR

I suppose I worry about my emotional state and the fact that I still seem to cry most days about what did or did not happen with the OM (amongst other things). LIR even you saying that the OM is healing his marriage and trying to put it back together upset me. How can I get over it?

I spoke with H tonight which is the first time in a few days. We had a good conversation and he had asked me previously if I would consider going away with him for a few days. Initially I had said no, but I said to him that I had re-thought this and maybe we could do that. This pleased him alot that I was at least considering it.

I am also not so worried about how he will behave when he comes home. He has promised me that he will not scream, rant and rave etc. and I blieve this. He is trying to act with dignity and it is only 4 weeks since he found out, so I do not expect too much. The worry is him moving back in and things going horribly wrong.

Is it enough to think maybe we can give it go without being 100% committed? Can we start from there possibly?

Anyway, today has mostly been positive, not huge sobbing tears (just a little welling up, even now as I write), a good meeting with my girls, a positve conversation with H, some physical activity (which has helped me alot in the last few weeks), and no alcohol. That has worried me alot about myself that I have been drinking every day and on occassion, way too much - 2 bottles of wine by myself last Friday after speaking to OM because he upset me so. No, don't worry I know there is no more communication there.

Thanks again, and I'll let you know what happens....

Lisa STAY AWAY from alcohol because just like your affair was an escape from your problems, the same is true with alcohol.

And realize that what you are going thru is normal for a wayward spouse going thru withdrawl and it will take TIME AND PATIENCE on the part of you and your husband. This in no way means that you shouldn't vent your feelings on this board because you will see that you are not the first or last person that has gone thru something like this and there is a lot of comfort in the fact that others like you have not only survived but have now better marriages than before their affairs.

Hi Lisa I am in the UK so if it will help to talk to an english person you can email me on haywardjanet @hotmail.com
I am a BS and yet was and am willing to forgive my H if he would forgive himself. I expect your H feels the same. We do all make mistakes and all M have difficulties though not all end up with A. If I can helpo at all please contact me. jante

Oh Lisa,

No one has ever started to rebuild a marriage without at least one if not both of them NOT 100% convinced that is what they want to do. You have just ripped the underpinnings from your H and yes yourself. You have behaved in a way that is completely against what you claim to believe. So I ask you how in the world could you possibly be 100% sure you want to rebuild this marriage? No way either of you could be that sure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So the answer to your question is simply, YUP! you try although you are not convinced that it will work or you want it to work. I am going to find a thread for you later posted by a lady who used to post a lot. She was a WS her name is SKM and I hope you will learn from her post just how long this does take. You are not out of withdrawal and won't be for a few months more. But, when you are, then you will see things differently. It may or may not be that you or your H wants to save the marriage, but give it a good effort.

Now, for your H. The watch word around here is TOTAL HONESY don't lie to him about your feelings. Frankly, I would be more crushed it my W went out and found just any old guy to have an affair with. The fact that you had strong feelings suggests that this wasn't just a fling. It makes it harder for you to get over but it also means that you didn't throw yourself at just any guy with pants. Your H won't see this, but you MUST be honest with him about your feelings. Again, I would suggest you go out and by Surviving an Affair by Harley. It will help you but it will really help your H to see this thing for what it is.

I will find SKM's thread and I would suggest read a few of her other posts that are tied to this thread. She is very good at articulating her feelings. By the way, she and her H are together very happily and expecting their first child. She, her H, and I have had dinner together a few times. I often travel to where near where they live. She is a wonderful lady and her H is the very best.

Lisa, these things can turn around, but it takes work and it takes a willingness to do it although you are uncertain about the future and your feelings.

Hang in there Lisa OK?

God Bless,

JL

PS: Here is SKM's thread just click on it SKM'sChronicles

Here is her 1st post that has some interesting commentary by other people in it as well.
SKM's 1st

<small>[ August 05, 2002, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Coffee Man -don't worry I know how destructive alcohol is, and that it is also a depressant, so not helping me at all.

Jante, thank you - I may well e-mai you directly, but do you know if you can buy Harley's books in the UK. I am going to look today anyway, if not may try the net.

JL - you are very kind and your words make me feel that there is a glimmer of light at the end of a tunnel.

I slept so badly again last night and feel so tired of all this. Dreaming about OM (sure he's not about me), worrying about H's return tomorrow. We are going to talk on Wednesday and just let him get back tomorrow before talking about anything. We've waited long enough since he found out and been apart since, so another day won't make any difference.

Thank you all so much. When I first posted on this board I had no hope about anything, now there is the tiniest bit there.

Just remember Lisa you are expecting quick fast changes in both your situation and your emotions.

It doesn't really work that way which is why you are feeling drained, tearful etc.

Try and take some time out and do something nice for yourself today if you can.

You are already doing a lot to help yourself and your H by being her and talking thru. Rushing can be a real problem even though we want to so much!

Take care of yourself too, that is important. Ben.

Hey, L-I-L, we have something in common. I am also WS living, not in London, but pretty close. I have been on MB for about 6 weeks now, and can say that yes the yanks do have different ways from us. But and it is a big BUT, this site helps. If nothing else you can put down what you want, how angry, stupid, embarassed, ashamed etc here. You may feel better just telling the world what you have done. I did, felt very silly at first but after a while it didnt seem that bad. No matter what your situation there are some poor people on here who are worse off, you can look at your own situation and say "if they can do it, so can I". I am still in that place where I dont know what I do want to do with my life, but I know what I dont want. That is to be single, loose my children and the love of a person who really deserves better than what she has got.
Keep coming here and you will see that whatevere your decisions, there will be people who have done something similar and lived to tell the tale.
Regards

Lisa,
I would present another side to the A being a way to end your marriage. I think the A may have been a way to meet the needs that couldn't be met by your H who was away. I think unconsciously you may have been trying to protect your M in your choice of OM. You got involved with a MM with 4 children- not someone single who would be free to pursue a life with you. Likewise, your MM, who probably had no real intention of destroying his family, picked you a married woman.

When you are missing your MM, instead of focusing on his good qualities, think about the bad. If he spent money on you remember he took family money that belonged to his wife and children as well. (Even if he makes all the money it is family money as long as he's married). If he snuck off to be with you, visualize the lies he told his unsuspecting wife. Imagine the endearments he told her to ward off her suspicions- and believe me he did. Imagine marrying him, facing the anger and resentment of his four children, who blame you for stealing their father. Remember that when they visit he will expect you to shoulder the burden of mothering four children who most likely will want nothing to do with you. Imagine having children with him, and one day your sweet, innocent child looks at you and says, mommy, how did you fall in love with dad? And think about what that child would think of you as a person if they knew the truth. think for a moment about this man's wife who is going through incredible heartbreak. She counts on her H as head of the household and father of 4 children. Yes, she no doubt didn't meet his needs- she may have been exhausted meeting the needs of four children. Put yourself in her shoes for a moment and imagine being an older single mother of 4 kids.

Then think about what kind of person you want to be- focus on that. And don't allow contact with the MM anymore.

Hi Lisa In London,
I am also in the Uk.
You asked was it possible to buy Harleys books in the UK. I got a copy of His Needs Her Needs from Amazon. They had it to me within two days of ordering.
Iv'e read your posts and believe you should give it a go.

So much wisdom on this site....

Ben - yes I did something nice for myself today - I played tennis, cycled and ordered Harley's books from Amazon - can't get them in the UK. Should be here soon JL, take note I have made a positive step.

Initdeep - when I read other posts on this board it makes me feel guilty that people can actually give time and patience to me a WW with no regard to H or to MM's W etc. I wish I was in that same place as you though - I still doubt my ability to try and work things through with H. I wonder whether I would be better alone, and if this is the best place for me now - my thoughts on this change not even daily, but hourly!! I too am glad to find the site - seem to spend hours on it every day at the moment.

Espoir - your words hurt but make good sense again. Although I had my little fantasy world of me and OM being together, I knew it was highly unlikely and improbable with 4 small children. I do think about her and the damage done there, but also, his W and kids are his responsibility. I know you are trying to get me to see him in a less positive light, but it just makes me feel sooooo ashamed all over again - he knew I was vulnerable and needy, and if he was the "true gentleman" he proclaimed to be, he would have left me alone from the start and not pursued me. I also feel sorry for his BS, because I do not think he will have the insight or intelligence to dig deep in his soul and heart to try and find out the answers to why it happened - at least I am trying to think about things, however painful they may be.

I wanted to buy my H a welcome home present when I went out today. It seemed so futile and meaningless though - how could he accept a silly gift, just because I'm trying to make myself feel better? I did buy him a card though and hopefully will be able to write down some of what I feel (without making him feel worthless and burdening him) and welcoming him home in a sort of a way. As I said to him, it won't be the flag waving he hoped for, but I will be there to greet him.

Thank you all so much. I hope my books arrive quickly - I need to get in to them as soon as I can.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa in London:
<strong>Ben - yes I did something nice for myself today - I played tennis, cycled and ordered Harley's books from Amazon.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's that Racketball game with the really big rackets yeah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

make sure you do something for yourself every day. Good luck for Weds.

get that prezzy for him. it's the thought that counts.
regards,
nick

Ben - ah, you made me smile. It's the game the Williams sisters, Andre Aggassi and Pete Sampras play - you may have heard of them!! Not that I am any good, but it makes me concentrate on something other than life for a good hour. Mind, you with an hour of tennis and 13 odd miles cycling, I think I'm wearing myself out. Hopefully will sleep tonight.

I'll try again tomorrow Nick. I just don't want him to think I'm being flippant or thoughtless - what to buy as a welcome home gift when he feels home has been wrecked beyond belief......

Yes, Lisa, his wife and children are his responsibility. But if you continue to pursue a married man, you bear the moral responsibility for that. If you entice him away from his family you do bear the responsibility for that. After all, if his life was so bad, he had the option to leave his wife instead of carrying on a secret affair with you. Don't bother getting angry with him over his behavior. Of course he was untrustworthy- anyone who betrays his wife and 4 children are by definition not worthy of trust. Of course he found it easy to talk to you. You were not dealing with the real life issues (kids, finances, work, time etc.) that his wife did. The two of you made some bad choices of how you dealt with things. But now, you can make some good choices and focus on being an honorable person again. The first good choice is: don't continue to contact him.

If you don't want to continue your marriage with your H, by all means, DON'T, but find an unattached man with whom you can pursue an honorable relationship based on honesty, a relationship you can feel proud of, and wait to look until you yourself are single and unattached. They are out there. My sis, age 43, who divorced her first H- no affairs, just severe inabilities to communicate and connect- and after several years of being alone- is now dating a wonderful loving unattached man. He is truly romantic. Truly romantic does not mean an affair partner who lies to his wife, sneaks out the door away from his children to catch a few moments with a woman who is in turn lying to her husband.

Think about why you married your H in the first place. (I'm assuming you weren't involved with him during his first marriage). Focus on your H's good qualities, focus on communication and working to re-establish those good feelings. Remember, it won't happen overnight. It will take a long time to build those feelings back. I think, if you want to recover your marriage, it would be wise to live together again. You need to build closeness and not distance. But you need to be honest about your feelings to your H. Have you told him you are afraid of letting him down if the two of you don't make it? Remember, it's scary for him too, to open his heart to you after your betrayal. But know that you can create a good marriage with him, if you decide to, if you commit your effort to it. "Love is a decision, not a feeling".

You should go light on the wine and probably consider antidepressants to help you through the withdrawal period. The excitement of the affair creates a drug rush, a high, that you are now crashing from. Anti depressants can help. You don't feel in any way drugged, just more in control of your emotions. If you are crying alot, it is something to consider. remember, wine is a depressant itself.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do in your life.

Also, want to add, that the welcome home gift is a great idea.

Lisa,

Just a final word for you to consider. DON'T project your feelings on your H. He may feel terribly betrayed, he may be hurt beyond belief, he may even entertain thoughts of leaving, but he MAY just love you still. So don't assume that he won't accept your gestures, that he won't appreciate them.

Lisa the odds are that he does still love you. He has had 4-6 weeks to think about this and get little feedback from you. If it was a simple "she had an affair, I am done", thing he would have already decided to divorce you. He hasn't.

Lisa one of the things that you haven't appreciated yet is that the betrayed spouse often takes this very very personally and often feel as if this was their fault. If your H is at all introspective my guess is that his self-esteem and feelings of worth are way down. Ironic isn't it.

My point don't ASSUME you know what your H thinks or feels about the marriage. Talk with him, listen to him, and talk with him so more. You Brits may be reserved, but if there is any group that has a command of the English language you do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Use it, and use it well.

Now for a trival question. You are not the first to post here from the UK. As you know from this thread there are quite a few doing so right now. But, I don't see any colours, and such. Are you guys just sugar coating it for us Yanks? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hang in there Lisa. Treat your H with kindness and both of you take a lot of time.

God Bless,

JL

Espoir - Two things - no I do not contact him, and have made a conscious decision not to. I actually do have a very little pride and dignity left. He has made his choice, and I will not interfer with that. Whether or not I can be alone, I am not sure. Probably I can, and that is what frightens me, because at the moment I do not need or really want my marriage. As I said earlier probably only about 20/25% of me wants to give it a go, if that. There is a huge amount to make up. Second thing, my H was DV for more than a year before I met him - am not a serial nutcase!!!!!

Still not sure about what gift to buy "Hi, welcome home, glad you're back, so sorry about the affair, but here's a book of poems" sounds a little trivial doesn't it.

JL - you are right about my H - his self esteem is very low and he keeps saying "Why do I feel so guilty". We are lucky in the fact that we have always communicated well, and I hope we may start again. In the two years he has been away, we have spoken most every day. I know I need to come absolutely clean about how I am feeling still about MM and my deep uncertainty. I don't want to hurt him anymore - is that possible?

So, it is my last night alone tonight. My friend called and said "How does it feel your last night?" I just started crying and crying, because amongst everything else, I hadn't even thought about that and how you get back together after two years, even without the A.

I suppose in the last few days what I have come to learn is that my H has a choice too, and whatever happens this will be a long and painful process. I want it to go now, be over, forgetten, and whether or not we stay together a decision here on a plate for me. It's not going to happen like that, and I must be patient and give myself time.

Off to bed soon, so very tired and just want to sleep for one night without bad dreams and anxiety - maybe soon.

Thank you all again.

Just had a good idea about welcome home gift - not a gift, but a gesture of what H may like. I have phoned the girls and asked them to come with me to the airport to meet him. They are both going to come with me. Have also said to them, that I want to do something nice for their D but hope they don't mind if they come with me and then I drop them off, so that me and H can spend time together. Am really glad they have agreed to this,and know that this will please H a lot.

So, that is or will hopefully be meaningful to him, and not about my own rubbish I want to dump on him.

What do you think?