congrats again... I am very happy for you... I do know about clamydia it can be treated with antibiotics and if both of you get it or even just him... I am sure with alll... you both have to get rid of it , for it to be gone....

I am very very happy for you.,... this distance thing really worked for you , huh ? hugs, HONEY

I think that allowing distance kept me from LBIng, one of those LB's being nagging, calling him all the time. I realize I cant change things

keep ya posted, I hope its for real.

GC, another positive step, way to go. Keep it up!
Have you guys considered MC? I think it would be good to start asap with a pro MC.

Take care,
Dave

thanks so much davepr for your posting, it means so much, especially seen you have been there.

Yes, I do want to seek MC, we went to one session right after he left (before I found out about OW). I told him that I needed to know why he left , etc. all he could say was that we didn't get along and did not love me, etc.

The counselor said "Sounds like you two have alot of issues to deal with, I'm not for sure if you can recover". Well, that was my last session with her, and it pushed him even farther, because he was "convinced" it would never work.

I have had a session with Steve H and would like to continue that but its so expensive. I emailed MB to see if they have a recommended list in my area, havent' heard back.

I thought I had done alot of research when seeking that first MC, making sure she was specialized in MC, member of that family therapy association,etc.

Well it sounds to me like your past MC didn't have all the details. She wasn't a mind reader and your WH was hiding very pertinent details that would have helped with her clinical care. My guess (for what's it's worth...) MC probably knew that WH wasn't being forthcoming, but couldn't do anything until he was ready to be open and honest with you and her. I have a feeling your next experience will be different. The affair is out in the open and he can't hide behind his old, tired made up excuses to 'wander'.

I agree with MGM, being a MC is difficult, especially if you don't know the facts.
We went to MC in the beginning too, about 4 weeks worth, the entire time she was having the A but blaming me for everything and hiding the A. Hard to get anywhere with MC if one pary is not being honest, especially with themselves. I also believe you will have a better experience now that everything is out in the open.. Recovery is a long difficult road, I think that while the A is going on and your S is away, all of your focus in on getting them back, once you have them back then the focus shifts to what has happened. At almost 3 months into recovery.. things are just starting to get better, most of my battles are with myself, she is doing all she can do, but I have alot of thoughts of her being with OM, etc... time does make this better and in the end I know our marriage is going to be better and stonger for having gone through this. I am not trying to discourage you, but just prepare you for when things "shift", I truly believe that you can both learn for this and come out in the end with a much better marriage and be stonger individuals. If your H is agreeable, mabye you can do a session or two with Steve, I know we did a few, it was expensive and my insurance did not cover it but it did set some good ground work. We now go to MC once a week... I plan on doing this for about another year.....
Take care,
Dave

hi gc, I called and got the local referral to an MB counselor... found one that knew the concepts and had been to several conferences- or something like that...anyway... it is sooo hard to get through this... hope you find someone on insurance that at least knows the concepts and will hopefully work with youa nd your h on them..

hugs, h

thanks everyone. I had a drs appt this afternoon, I decided I'm going to take the rest of the day off and call around to see if any of them follow the Harley principles , I'll probably start out with Christian counselors but want to make sure the Bible doesn't get thrown in h's face!!

Okay, I think I did a bad thing today. Maybe you guys could tell me.

I was grabbing a book off of the bookshelf in our office where he had dropped off alot of his books, and theres a shoebox in there. So, my first reaction, is hey, here's a pair of shoes, I will put it in the closet in the bedroom with his other shoes. So i Opened it up, and theres a whole bunch of cards in there, some from me, some from his family, wedding and birth announcements, etc. Of course curiousity bit me in the butt, and I had to got threw them all. There were 7 cards in there from OW. One of them was a Xmas card and she had wrote in there "Happy first kiss anniversary, love you". All of the other cards, were I love yous. Anyway, I was extremely hurt when I saw these especially because they were in our home!!

Their first kiss was in December 2000, he started acting "funny" after that, and finally left in Feb 2001. So, I called him and told him I found them, I knew if I didn't, it would kill me. I called and said that I wanted to admit to what I had done and wanted to be honest with him. He apologized to me, saying that he did not mean to bring those, he will shred them later. and of course, I did an oopsy, and said "I'll shred them and send them to OW if you want me too". He just said, no he would do it.

He said that the first kiss happened at the company christmas party because he was mad at me. I had just recently had surgery, was on crutches, had to wear a big boot on my leg, it was freezing and icy outside and I did not want to go out in it. He was upset because I didn't want to go because he really wanted me to go so we got in a huge fight, etc. He also said that nothing really happened until after he left. not for sure if thats the truth or not. I thanked him for his honesty because I know that if I'm going to "snoop" I need to be prepared for the consequences.

I mentioned that the only way that we will ever work is for him to cut off all contact with OW, he said he knew that, that's why its hard on him. I also said that he cannot stay there anylonger after she gets back on Wednesday (he had promised to watch her pets when she left), he said he knows.

Anyway, thats my little update. I feel better telling him, the conversation went well. I know that if I would have held that in me it would have killed me and I probably would have LB'd big time.

Thoughts?

Well, it looks like my oopsy didnt throw everything away, he just brought over another carload of s**t!! He's got more clothes than any woman I know!!! He still hasn't been able to bring the big stuff, his friend had a plumbing problem so theyll do it tomorrow evening.

He did mention that he was sorry if he was acting distant but just had alot of emotions going through his head right now. I told him I understood and understand that it is hard on him. think he was surprised by that
I'm still trying to keep my high hopes in check because he hasn't faced OW yet since he has almost everything out.

Hi GC,
Try to be cautiously optmistic..I am glad you were honest with him and that his replies were positive. At some point in time you two will need to sit down and he will need to honestly answer any questions that you have, you will probably have alot and some of the answers will hurt. Don't ask anything that you are not prepared to hear the answer to. I am very detailed, so I wanted to know everything, including the sex, sometimes I am sorry that I asked.

I would try not to snoop, you know he had the A, you know they told each other they loved each other, you know they had sex.. if you have unanswered questions, wait for the right time and ask.

You also need to be prepared for his withdraw from OW. This can be very hard on the BS.. It is difficult to live and support, Plan A, your FWS, when they are lonely or crying for OP. That about killed me, I felt like saying, if you miss him that much, then go back, I don't want you.. but I didn't. The first two time my FWS came home, she had major withdraws, the last time, barely any. I think if the A had died a natural death, the withdraws will be less.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm still trying to keep my high hopes in check because he hasn't faced OW yet since he has almost everything out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agree,this could be hurdle for him, so try to be understand and no LBs.

Take care, Hang in there,
Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>I would try not to snoop, you know he had the A, you know they told each other they loved each other, you know they had sex.. if you have unanswered questions, wait for the right time and ask.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This one was by accident and I know by personal history that snooping does not help, I am not trying to "prove" the affair, but only setting myself up for alot of hurt. I have been trying to keep a positive spin such as: 18 months of H**L may lead to a lifetime heaven. Some marriages I see don't even seem to exist, this is OUR chance to have a fulfilling marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>You also need to be prepared for his withdraw from OW. This can be very hard on the BS.. It is difficult to live and support, Plan A, your FWS, when they are lonely or crying for OP. That about killed me, I felt like saying, if you miss him that much, then go back, I don't want you.. but I didn't. The first two time my FWS came home, she had major withdraws, the last time, barely any. I think if the A had died a natural death, the withdraws will be less. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he's going through withdrawal now, I know he is. He tried to come back last year in August, and couldn't go through with it. He probably started to sense withdrawl and got scared plus it did not help the fact that at that time he still worked with OW and would see her everyday. I talked to a lady from that job and she thought (his whole office did) that we were divorced, probably to make things look better for them. I'm glad that he's got a new job, and a fresh start, I don't think anyone knows his personal history and what he is going through.

I have tried so hard in the last few months not to discuss the affair, and I am hoping that it truly did die a natural death. They lived together, and from sources , they fought alot. So hopefully alot of LBing got done so I can refill his Love BAnk.

After he left this evening, he seemed kinda down. I called him a little later on his cell phone, and just told him that I admired him and even though he feels weak right now, that to me his the strongest person on earth. I'm hoping that little encouraging words like that help. Nothing pushy, but hopefully a little uplifting.

I would like hear a few pointers on withdrawl

Hi sweetie, Thanks for the coverstaion last night... I am all motivated for distance and letting him do the contacting..

Now for you... I am so proud of you and your great attitude, keep it up! No eagarness, and definitely delay that std conversation until he mentions any sf with you... dont assume it is happening... and let him invite you out, ask you about coming home... he seems to think he can waltz in... now I am sooo glad he is returning.. but where is the... can I, and will you be ok with it?
I know if I were you I would be ok with it! but dont let him see you as a pushover or too easy...

be nice, but mysterious and firm.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> hugs, H

I think that the no contact will help him with the withdraws this time, in addition, he moved out on his own, he ended the A, obviously he wasn't happy there. I am glad he has a new job, working with OW just would not work out.. He needs to get several weeks down without any contact with OW and continued encouragement, no LBs or demands, from you. I don't think that you can do much more than you are doing.. continue to show him the person that you have become, pratice the new techniques and skills that you have learned, don't slip back into any old bad habits, pray alot. Once he is back home and you have some boundries in place, I would try to do as much together as possible, like you are dating again,maybe go on a vacation if you can , if not, just try to go on some dates - movie, dinner, whatever you BOTH like to do but keep busy and do things together that are fun.
Take care,
Dave

I'm really getting nervous here, he said he is planning on moving the rest of his stuff tomorrow. that's when OW gets back, I think hes going through withdrawl and I'm scared that he is going to see her, and change his mind again.

need to vent:

If I can't get a f*****g straight answer on what the H**L is he going to do, I am finished. I cannot deal with his withdrawal. If I don't get a straight answer tomorrow, I am headed to a lawyer first thing Thursday morning.

Man sweetie, you've been thru the ringer lately. You do deserve an answer from your H. And this time, if he doesn't give you one, you have every right to proceed to raise a stink. That includes no longer making life easy for the BS. Example: no moving back in. Get ya ****, and get out! Don't let the door hit ya in the [censored]!

As far as withdrawal... I'm sorry but the first thing that comes to mind... sex sex sex. Use a condom if you have to, but do your best to make it fun.

That's just my suggestion...

I agree with the others, at this point you deserve an answer. You've put up with alot, how much more are you supposed to compromise? My feeling on this is...wait 'til all his stuff is moved, tell him you want answers. If you don't get them hand him his walking papers. Let him move all his stuff again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> It's time for him to start making an effort to save his M of file for D. Enough is enough!

<small>[ August 13, 2002, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by findingmywayback:
<strong>As far as withdrawal... I'm sorry but the first thing that comes to mind... sex sex sex. Use a condom if you have to, but do your best to make it fun. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no problem with his SF, as long as I know its over with OW, he will not have the cake and eat it too

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>I agree with the others, at this point you deserve and answer. You've put up with alot, how much more are you supposed to compromise? My feeling on this...wait till all his stuff is moved, tell him you want answers. If you don't get them hand him his walking papers. Let him move all his stuff again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> It's time for him to start making an effort to save his M of file for D. Enough is enough!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The trash pickup comes on Friday....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You had better 'double bag' his stuff for the trash pick-up on friday! There's a whole lot of stinky history in that junk!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC, try backing off more, become more distant again. I am convienced that his A is not going to last but I can't promise you that he will not run back to her at this point in time.. Sometimes it takes the WS a few false starts to figure things out, it is not fair, you don't deserve this from him, and I know it hurts like hell! He sounds like he is very confused, if he runs back to OW
now, I am sure that within a very short period of time it will be over with OW again. Alot of times this is how these A end, the WS waffels back and forth. If he does go back again, I think it is time for a full Plan B. I know you will be angry and may want to give up, but try not to make any decisions for a couple of weeks.

What happened? I thought the plan was for him to spend a few weeks at friends house to clear his head? Try not to get drawn into his roller coaster of emotions, and please try to not LBs.
Hang in there.... if he does go back,things are only going to be worse with him and OW, they are on a downward spiral and he will crash sooner or later.

I know this is so hard, you have worked so hard for getting your marriage back. Please hang in there... take care dave