Well, needless to say the anniversary wasn't of the memorable kind I was hoping for. I fully admit I was getting my hopes up and almost driving myself in to a frenzy with fear of being disappointed. I had a sick sinking feeling in my stomach as we pulled out of the driveway to leave...I knew it was a bad sign that I was setting myself up with expectations (or extremely high hopes). This is an old habit of mine that I'd let go of for the most part...but I considered this a very special occasion and I was hoping very strongly to see some acknowledgment that hubby has "gotten it" himself somewhere along the way when it comes to things of that nature. Unfortunatly our Anniversary was not that day.

There were actually many other things that didn't help that were NOT hubbies fault...but at any time a little special attention would have smoothed that over. But add all the little disappointments together...and I was not a happy camper.

First...we didn't get out of here until later than we'd hoped. My SIL who promised to watch our son decided to make last minute doctor appts for that day. Yup...getting a RELIABLE sitter around here is near impossible for us. Sucks. Anyway...we got on our way and had an enjoyable ride. Hubby drove and I read chapters out of Mars and Venus in the bedroom. I had many toys and such packed so I thought we might learn some extra tips to make it even more enjoyable.

We got to the hotel where I booked our room. I did it all off the internet since we don't know the area real well and have no idea what's good and what's not. It was a very expensive room. And upon entering it....not special at all. The room was half the size of our bedroom and 4X the cost than I would have expected. That was truly disappointing. BUT...I knew we were going to get gussied up and have a great time anyway, so I was still plenty enthusiastic. Looking at the time we realized we wouldn't have enough time to go to the restaurant I'd originally chosen...a yummy Italian place (my favorite)..so we decided to make the best of it and eat in the hotel restaurant. It was a steak house. It was good, but very much what we normally eat (we have cattle so we have a freezer full of steaks). That was a tad disappointing too. But not nearly as disappointing as the fact that I looked very very good, and hubby never made one comment to that affect. Nor did he wish me a Happy Anniversary or thank me for planning such a wonderful evening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Ok...moving on...

After eating we headed to a comedy club where we had the most enjoyable part of our evening. The comedian was hilarious and we had a really good laugh.

Then we headed back to the hotel. I realized at this point that hubby had no tricks up his sleeve, no surprise gift or romantic ideas. He turned on the tv when we got back and I started getting really depressed. I wasn't sure if I was "allowed" to feel upset over the disappointing evening or not. I decided to try once more to make the best of it and try to get things back on an "anniversary" track and suggested we head down to the pool and spa. They said they're open 24hours so I thought WHOOPIE! We'll have some water fun and then come upstairs for a little more fun. Well...gee... The pool room was full up of screaming teenagers. I said "forget it" and headed back up to the room. Now I admit I was EXTREMELY disappointed by this time and very sensitive. Hubby said something to me several times in the pool room, but I couldn't hear him with the teenagers hollering. So he yelled at me. Wow...I about started bawling right there. He always hates it when I say "what? what?" but dang...I couldn't hear him.

Anyway...we get back up to the room...hubby sits down (tv still on) and starts reading the local attraction brochure...and I slip into his t-shirt (I hadn't planned on wearing clothing, so I had to borrow his) and went to bed. I was really upset...which only got worse when he just rolled over and went to sleep. Not a thank you, not an I love you, not a Happy Anniversary....nada.

I got up at 6:30 after tossing and turning for a while and took a bath. Cried and fumed and thought about whether or not I was "allowed" to feel this way. Whether this was really MY problem or if hubby actually did drop the ball big time.

My first thought was to pack up and head back home...but we DID have a sitter and we were in the big city...so I decided to still try and make the best of it. I kept thinking that maybe hubby could redeem himself yet. We shopped for a few hours and then headed home. I finished reading Passionate Marriage on the way home and calmed down enough to regain conversation with hubby. I asked him if I'd looked nice? YES, he said. Well, I said, it wouldv'e been nice to have heard it. Oh...sorry. Then I told him (I KNOW I KNOW, LB's)..no offence hubby, but you're a lousy date. He apologized again, but probably really didn't have much idea of what I was talking about at that point. I figured I'd let him chew on it awhile.

Anyway...we get home and I'm kind of on a roller coaster of emotions. A lot of old stuff came back. It made me feel taken for granted and ignored once again. And hubby HAS KNOWN for 10 years that special occasions are SPECIAL TO ME. I should mention...he did get me a dozen roses and a card the day before. That was sweet...but it's also the same thing I get for valentines day and birthday.... He is showing improvement...but far from "getting it" in my book.

Sunday I try to mellow out and not let it eat at me. I posted the post about "high maintainence". Hubby uses it to "prove his point"..tells me that nothing around here seems like it's good enough for me anymore. WHAT??? Where the F*** do you get that??? I just said absolutely NOTHING and went to bed (it was 3:30 in the afternoon). I think I get sick when I get upset...and I was VERY upset.

Monday comes and I'm thinking "hubby better do something to redeem himself and he'd better get a MOVE ON!!!" Cause in my book, expediency counts WAY MORE than saying the "right" thing. Giving a heartfelt apology within 24 hours counts WAAAAAY more than a dozen roses a week after the fact. That's a darn good way to find out what orafaces can double as a vase!

Monday afternoon I come home early to get some parts for work. I'm still sulking and angry. Actually getting madder by the passing hour. Hubby is home and I cooly ask him if he'd like to come along (I have one more stop to make before I pick up son). He says "if you want me to". I said I really didn't care what he did. Hubby has wised up...he came along! We're heading out of the driveway and he reaches over to me and tells me he's really sorry. I say nothing...I'm still pretty livid and hurt...and it's been DAYS! Then he starts talking to me!!! He says...if I did something for you now, you'd get mad and tell me I only did it to shut you up. OOOOOH, we're showing real progress here! He's RIGHT! I WOULD! And I told him so. So, he said, what do I do? I said, apologizing was a nice start! Then we had a really good talk about the whole thing.

Some good stuff came out of all of it. Hubby said although things were uncomfortable for a while there, he never felt panicked, like he thought I was going to leave. And I told him I never FELT like I wanted to leave...maybe wanted to bury a heavy object into hubbies skull...but not leave. And I never once romanticised that anyone else would have done it better. So what...I love MY hubby...and he's going to get it or he's going to die trying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> hee hee hee

I still think hubby is far from getting it, but my expectations don't get the best of me like that very often. Our 10th was something that was to be a landmark special occasion for many years...and the fact that we almost didn't make it that far made it all the more special to me. I also went to a lot of effort to make it really nice...and it went extremely unnoticed by hubby. I guess we'll see what he does with his next 10 years.

<small>[ August 06, 2002, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

h4f,

I am sorry that you let your hopes get up there and then hubby just didn't get it. Wouldn't it be cool to write an instruction booklet for them? Actually they did and my mom gave it to STBX one year (she always writes in books when given) When I got to his appartment Thurs it was with a bunch of stuff of mine that he had waiting for me, and I thre it at him and said you might as well kept, you need it!!! I had to leave his apartment after that.

Perhaps instead of putting so much into a special occasion, make one up and do something silly instead, like next week make it another anniversary (How many ever weeks 10 yrs + 1 week are) send him on a scavenger hunt to find you, maybe even make some of clue from the flopped anniversary last week, (he probably was paying attention more then you think, just didn't know where to go with it)If you are running cattle you have a lot of land to send him looking on!!!!

Have fun,
Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Here's the thing H4F...

I was reading this book on Narcissistic 'families' in a Borders bookstore... I swear, if bells and whistles went off when you GET something, it would have been very loud in there.

You put a whole lotta planning into this anniversary... You really wanted it to be special... Did you tell him that you NEEDED it to be special?

See the reason I say this, is because the book described a scenario... that I swear could have come straight from my own brain... A woman... raised by a narcissistic mother... was TERRIBLY disappointed every gift giving occasion... even though SHE never made a BIG deal about it... in fact, she downplayed what she wanted and EVEN IF she wanted anything... when her H would ask... she would say... "Oh, any old thing will do." or "Birthdays/Christmas is for kids." and, when her H did what she asked DOWNPLAYED her gift, or even didn't give her anything, she was terribly heartbroken and disappointed...

I did the same. When my H asked what I wanted for any gift-giving event... I would answer... "I don't know." 'Cause I wanted him to KNOW me so well that he wouldn't HAVE to ask... he would just magically get the PERFECT gift. Now my H, on the otherhand is so AFRAID of failing... that he does... he wants so badly for the gift to be PERFECT for me, that he would be paralyzed into getting nothing... or waiting until the last moment... or relying on his 'standbyes.' (I have recieved 4 pairs of pearl earrings in 12 years... and I don't wear earrings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

The therapist dug and discovered that her mother had in some way taught her IF YOU HAVE TO ASK FOR IT, IT ISN'T AS MEANINGFUL.

Well... yeah... right? I mean, you shouldn't have to ASK or TELL someone for the gift that you want... right???? WRONG!

So the woman, coached by her therapist, started leaving a countdown to events like her birthday... and she made a list (w/pictures cut out from catalogs and ads) for her H, of things she'd like (so she could still be surprised.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVED THIS... and since H was w/ me in the store... I read the scenario to him... yep, lights on for him to... so, I'm gonna try it... Our Anniversary is the 19th... kids are w/ my sister for a week next week...

THE COUNTDOWN IS ON!

Sometimes you really gotta let 'em know... ya gotta tell 'em what you want... (and... it helps to keep your expectations really low).

hugs,
Cali

My husband is the same way about that stuff. I would say your husband really doesn't have a clue about those things. Sounds like he is afraid to make a move because he really doen't know what to do. (Sorry...guys are like that in my opinion).

If I were you, I would have got a cute PJ for the night, bought some hot oil and attacked him with the TV on. That would have gotten his motor started. I know you want him to be the one to do, but it is so helpful to start. I know he probably has hurt you in the past, and sometimes they keep doing this, but as someone once said on this board, do you want to stay married?

What we feel is important as women, doen't seem to be as important to men. My husband felt that the way he could make this up to me was to make our family finacially secure. They really are from Mars. If you attack him a few times, he will get to like this. Don't wait for him to make the first move. You have to teach them what you want, you can tell them, but men need short commands. They tune us out after a few words. In a way I feel sorry for him because he really doen't know what he did wrong. They just don't think the same way we do.

I can feel how disappointed you were, but I'm a girl, I get it....they don't. I don't know your situation and I cannot make a judgement here, I can only apply what you said to my situation, so I may be totally wrong about this. I can say that after lurking on the OW board I have learned that these women greet our men in cute nities and g-strings, bathed and perfumed. They initiate sex many times. I guess what I'm saying is that we have to fight fire with fire. Please don't take this the wrong way if I've missed the boat here. Again, I could be totally wrong, but my relationship has improved a great deal since d-day. At first it was all me, but over the last month things have been fantastic. He has held me, told me he loves me and showed me in many ways.

A month or two ago I was ready to throw in the towel, but I kept going with plan A and things are so good between us I have to pinch myself. I feel like I did when we first got married, and I think I filled his love bank again.

I hope your husband gets it, but he is a guy and doesn't think like us, no excuse, he is just different.

I understand what you two are saying...but I did make it EXTREMELY clear.

I asked him 2 weeks before if he had made any plans..thus giving him time to have MADE plans. He said he had not, so I told him I really wanted it to be special and had some ideas, would he mind if I went ahead and planned it? He was thrilled! I also packed slinky nightware and lotions and potions and toys and you name it...so he knew what I had in mind for that evening.

I don't think it takes a romantic genius to know you tell your wife she looks nice (especially when he knew what a big deal I went through to look nice for him).

Hubby certainly didn't intentionally hurt me....but had he even thought one iota about it he would have known to do something. He knew it was special to me...and he simply was comfortable in the idea that he didn't have to do anything.

I've NEVER downplayed the importance of gift giving or compliment giving. He knows I enjoy it. In order to assist him I began listing things on the fridge. Clipping pictures out of cataloges and magazines.

I didn't expect perfection...I wanted attention. When I got none...I saw EVERYTHING he didn't do.

H2F - So sorry things didn't turn out the way you had hoped. When I read you post I thought of something that was said to me when I was planning my anniversary - don't expect ANYTHING.

Triggers my dear, triggers. You know this, you have probably told yourself this a thousand times over the past few days. Hubby told you he was a bit uncomfortable (or something like that). It's a lot better today than a year ago, but it's still there. We all know this. The good thing is that you guys talked about this. He acknowledged that he messed up and that if he tried to fix it now that it would seem meaningless. That shows he acknowledges you and your feelings.

Ok, so let's work on today (so to speak). Another poster mentioned doing something this week or soon for your anniversary. Sure, the actual day diddn't turn out how you would have liked, but who says we have to always celebrate on THE DAY. How long was your honeymoon? You are still in anniversary time - celebrate! Hey, set up a small table outside under the stars with candles and wine. This you can enjoy after your son is in bed. Dance under the moon. Wear your dress again with no shoes and enjoy the moment - or shall I say "seize the moment".

Hope, believe me I know exactly how you feel. I've had those moments. A very wise man told me the other day that men just don't say things like thank you and such. It's just their nature. They sort of take us wives for granted, not intentionally and not always knowingly. This wise man - he is my father. He told me this when I was complaining about my husband not thanking me for helping him with the hand held he ordered. Anyhow, it's true. Then they may realize it and think it's too late to apologize.

Pay attention to the good here. He acknowledged your feelings on it. You guys talked about it, and he did say he was truly sorry. This is good. Ok, so you had to ask if you looked good - I have to do that some times too. Talk to him, let him know that it means a lot for him to make a point of telling you that you look good, even on Sundays when you are in your sweats. They don't always realize how much they DON'T say this - I know my husband didn't, but once I talked to him about it he made the effort to be more conscious of it.

Hope, don't let the weekend spoil the feeling you wanted to gather from your 10 yr. anniversary. It's not over - seize the day and grab hold of that feeling. Tell him, as someone else posted, that you NEED it to be special. Let him know how you feel about it. You mentioned that 10 yrs. is supposed to be special and that you thought yours would be all the more because you almost didn't make it to it - TELL HIM THIS. You haven't lost the moment to experience the beauty of your 10 yrs. together - all you have to do is embrace the opportunities that lie ahead.

I wish you lots of luck and hope that things go better for you. Men will be men, and sometimes we have to take them by the hand and say this is how I see it, help me make it possible. Take care my friend, and keep your chin up. You guys are doing great and still have plenty of time to make the most of your 10 yrs. My best to you.

That's a really neat idea...but at this point I certainly don't feel like exerting even MORE effort to try to salvage things. I put forth TONS of effort in planning and mapping and reserving and clothes and packing...you name it, I did it all. I have no desire to enable his lack of action any more. 10 years...I've pursued and romanced him. 10 years, I've tried to educate him sweetly on the things I would like. 10 years most have gone unnoticed. I haven't got it in me right now to continue that pattern.

I'm not trying to be difficult...I just don't have any desire to set myself up for even more disappointment. If hubby wants to do something...he's welcome to it. If not...well...that's his decision too. If I do something like you said above...he'll take it as I'm no longer upset and he's off the hook. Then it will all get swept away until the next time...and he'll "forget" again. Forget it...I don't need to conjure up more evidence or ammo. I don't want to feel that pain again any time soon. He knows he screwed up...he acknowleges that...and he most likely intends to do nothing about it. So be it.

I'm just tapped out right now. Another day I will have more to give again...but today I do not.

We have come a long way in a lot of areas. Every day romance he has gotten better at. As a husband he is much more active and affectionate and caring. I guess "this is a big deal to me" just wasn't clear enough that hubby understood that our 10th anniversary was a big deal to me. I asked hubby if he had treated a date like he treated me...no attention, turning the tv on, no compliments etc...what he thought the chances of him getting a second date would be? He answered, "none?". Yea...probably none.

<small>[ August 07, 2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

Oh Hope, I'm so sorry for your hurt. I understand your pain right now. You feel unappreciated and unnoticed. Boy have I been there. I wish I could just shake your H and say "get a clue and make this right damn it. She tried so hard, notice!"

Ok, ok, I understand what you are saying - another day another time maybe. A day will come that you say, hey let's make it special for no reason, and hopefully by then he will have taken the time to realize he needs to openly notice a little more. Until then, I hope and pray he does something nice for you that says I notice your efforts and hope it's not too late to acknowledge.

You did so good and it sounds so nice what you planned out. I hope your H doesn't sweep it under the carpet and makes some effort to make amends for pushing aside your feelings. You are a wonderful person, and I wish you well always. Hang in there hun, you are doing great.

Hey, you could always serve him bread and water for dinner for a few days and then maybe he will begin to appreciate it more when you make a real meal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care Hope, we're here for you.

I am so sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> it sounds like you really did think of everything. Don't give up, he could still be depressed. Mine was for a long time. It has been about a year now, and he finally has responded. Keep filling that love bank, and I hope he doesn't empty yours. Sounds like he would be loosing a good wife. Hang in there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , he'll figure it out hopefully.

NJ...he's not depressed. He's had a few little triggers, but he actually said when we talked through everything that he felt secure that this was just a fight, and that I was not going to leave. He was right.

I don't mean to sound unappreciative of the effort hubby did give both BEFORE the anniversary and AFTER. He DID realize that he needed to apologize and talk to me and he knew that if he just tried to sweep it over with some more flowers or something he'd just be in more trouble. So I need to say I'm EXTREMELY grateful for the progress he showed there. That probably means as much to me as if he HAD done something special for our Anniversary.

And on a daily basis he has been SO much better at being a good, loving husband.

So I appreciate all he's learned and doing...he just got a bit too comfortable and forgot to pack his brain on our anniversary. I love him and forgive him and am not planning on making him "pay" for his mistakes by holding out sex or not talking to him. We made up and I'm still very affectionate to him. I just don't have any more "special occasion" romance giving energy right now. I am still hurt. I am still disappointed. In time that will fade and we'll hoop it up again.

Like you said tutter...fighting is normal!! Feels good to feel normal again :-)

H4F,

I'm a guy and i can see your dissappointment. Sorry for you. It seems he certainly did get enough notice. Letting you go to bed alone just doesn't seem right...a man and SF you know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Do you suppose with all the preparations, (toys and such) made him feel that he was supposed to "perform" or that your expectations where so high he was afraid he could not meet them?

About the gift giving, its good you don't down play anything he gives you. What Cali related about the gift giving (and giving of anything i.e. compliments) can really scare the man. He,we, want it to be perfect, what you to feel really good about the gift and us for giving it. Any dissapointment is magnified greatly, to a point of being afraid to give. What Cali was sharing is right on......

Over the years you girls tell us guys many times what you like and how yoou feel about certain gifts. Why many times? I can only think it is because the guys get so wrapped up in life they forget, and truly are not as sensitive as girls are in remembering the special meaning gifts and acitions. (one of the attractions of my ws to om is because his gifts to her are exactly what she wants and shows he know what she feels)

I have always tried to do that also through 32 years of M, but twenty years ago got to a point of being afraid to give anything that was not obviously wanted. She had to tell me, gifts always had something that could have made it better (downplaying??), she had to tell me again, she got tired of telling me, gift giving went down hill quickly.

It was great to hear you and H got to talk about it and he had realized what happened. I agree with Tutter, he should be told. A look him in the eyes while telling him, told.
He realized he needed to do something, but at the same time that if he did do anytbing it would only make it worse because he was Making-up not doing anything outof the ordinary special. and was probably afraid too...its very good he spoke to you about it.

I would think you should not make excuses for him and any lack of being able to "see" special moments. Such as, well he's a man and men don't do this. He needs to learn to do this, it is part of the recovery to a "new" M. not just the same M as before.

Hopefully, next time the TV will stay on........to give just enough lite to get the Tshirt off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wishing the best for you

DRS

Desert...good points. I think I've been very clear that I appreciate gifts...but you're right, I've not always been thrilled with what hubby has gotten. I'm quite sure I've been guilty of not praising hubby enough for the efforts he has given.

My greatest fear...and unfortunatly one I think is very valid...is that by fawning over a little thing that really isn't that big of a deal...hubby will believe he's done all he can, he got it right, so that's EXACTLY what he'll do the next time and the next time and the next time. Like when I mentioned he didn't get me a gift for our anniversary...he pointed out he got me flowers. Well...yea, but that's NOT the same as a gift. I get the same thing for birthday, valentines day etc... I wanted SPECIAL acknowledgment of this day...I wanted some THOUGHT on his part.

I hear what you're saying about being intimidated because we focus so much on the material things....but that was actually the LEAST disappointing thing. He didn't even LOOK at me, compliment me, thank me...anything. Also, my hubby has always been a very materialistic person. Not that he desires many physical things...but he's always put a great value on money. So yes...knowing that he uses money to value the things he loves...I look to be treated in the same respect. It's hard for me to not feel like I mean less to him than EVERYTHING when he's unwilling to spend a few bucks on me. To this day I look at a wedding band that cost less than our hotel room this weekend. It reminds me every single time I look at it that it was more important to my hubby to save money, than it was to spend a little more on something as silly as a wedding band.

A couple of christmases ago hubby actually put forth the effort to get me some of the things I had listed. He had actually LISTENED to me about what I was interested in. He then went out and bought the absolute cheapest ones he could find. So...I was torn again. Am I supposed to feel good that he tried? Or am I supposed to feel like he put forth as little effort as possible just to shut me up? Felt a LOT like the latter. I asked him later how he would feel if I bought him cheap tools from walmart instead of the Sears Craftsman tools I usually get him. Just that fall for his birthday I'd gotten him a very expensive Sears toolbox...and I got the absolute cheapest gifts walmart had to offer. Maybe it wouldn't have been a big deal if I wasn't painfully aware how much value my husband puts on money. It was a very loud message to me that other things were far more valuable to hubby than I was.

So yes...I admit...I have work to do in stimulating hubbies interest and understanding of gift giving and romance with more praise and lower expectations...but he's still going to have to do the work and put some thought in to it. I try not to take it personally...but he and his happiness come so second nature to me that it is hard not to feel hurt that he acts like it's a huge project for him to do something recipricol.

Understood... sounds as if you made if very clear...

Guess all that is left is to NOT expect anything... and... one more suggestion... don't let him off the hook of 'planning' your celebration... what you did sounds so much like what I used to do... plan and implement... all hubby had to do was show up w/ the PERFECT gift and be SUPERBLY romantic... all I got was him watching whatever cable channels were provided in the room.

Now as to specificity... the woman in the scenario left NOTES everywhere and lists of "Carolyn wants ANY of THESE things for her birthday/anniversary."

and, I really do commiserate with you... my H majorly disappointed me on my birthday this year... all I asked for was a cake... I think I set my sights too low. NEXT YEAR WILL BE DIFFERENT... (really different as I will turn 40 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

Further... once anniversary is far enough away... and no other gift-giving 'special' days are on the horizon... broach the subject of why gift-giving seems so difficult for him... what was it like in his family of origin? My MIL pretty much gives her family marching orders and they follow through or ELSE... which is another reason why I think my H has 'fear of failure' disease... he'd rather do nothing... than do something and have it not be JUST what I want... even though I have assured him over and over and over that I really do like the pearl earrings... they just hurt my stupid sensitive ears...

Cali

Hope,
Flowers aren't a gift? Really? They take thought, ordering or picking up, they can be expensive, they're lovely, they smell good, sure they don't last forever...unless you dry them, which I do.

Have you read the book THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES by Chapman? (I recommend it so often I don't know who all I've posted it to) It's similar to HNHN, but when I read it, it was like it explained so much about my H & me, how we give & receive love. I suspect the 2 of you don't speak the same love language AT ALL.

Like my H & I. He expresses & receives love by service. Like if I water the lawn, he feels I've done something loving for him. My language is time together, so if he's off caulking the windows, loving me, he's not with me and I don't feel loved. But now I know that when he's doing things for me, that's love, I can recognize it, even though it isn't my language.

The book does a better job explaining <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

And, I have accepted that my H can't read my mind, sometimes he can't remember what I've said, sometimes he doesn't realize it was important. If I need time with him, I say, "I need time (or whatever <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) with you, when can we do that?"

You can be angry, disappointed, bummed, but that doesn't improve the situation. You can keep your expectations low, and that can help, anything is a pleasant surprise then.

It really sounds like you were on the right track with the plans, the dress, etc, but when he didn't say you looked pretty, it went spiraling down for you. I ask "Do you like me in this?" That simple question, and hopefully the answer "You are so beautiful" saves us hours of my disappointed misery.

I'm sorry it went all wrong for you.

LOL!! Well, good to know I'm not the only one!!

Hubbies family was extremely disfunctional. He's always seen MY family as having been disfunctional...and yes..I would say he's right. But I think he still has yet to realize how little love was ever extended in his family. My hubby sounds very much like yours...I do think he has a major fear of failing. I feel bad that I've aided in that...and I know I have. I know when he reads these posts he's going to feel like I'm "picking" on him and that I'm just showing him to be some major failure. THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL! I'm frustrated and I'm hurt...I have a right to be...and he DID screw up. That doesn't mean he's a failure...he just has more to learn! I guess I view screw ups as an opportunity to do better next time...and he sees them as a reason not to TRY next time, cause he'll probably just screw it up more. Not sure what to do to help him in that area.

I've assured him that I love him very much and I do appreciate that he atleast WENT with me with no fuss at how much I spent on everything etc... I guess I didn't make it clear that planning the occasion WAS my gift to him, because I knew he didn't want to do it. I kind of screwed myself in that deal.

I wish they wouldn't ask what we expect or want for a special occasion. I'd rather they just actually THINK about it and DO SOMETHING. I just have such a hard time wrapping my head around why it's sooo difficult to pay enough attention to the person you LIVE WITH 7 days a week to know their likes and dislikes. My girlfriends, whom I see once a month...know me better. What's the deal with that??!!

Hope...I sure can't add anything here, but I wanted to let you know that your thread title made me laugh! And I needed the laugh this morning! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

H4F,

I hear you. The man will think a gift was sufficient if you fawn over it. Also, as has be posted in another thread, the man can start to feel the lady never gets enough of the gifts, or of giving in general.

But in that same thread, wish i could remember it, the girls talk about the diversity of the giving, not that they always want something, they want something different....it made very good sense to me.....Your H may very well think he's got it right, and with you help he will have. But does he understand he ALSO needs to be different, needs to be giving in many differnet ways......This is what he needs to learn, and, thinking about it, you may not be able to teach him, because its coming from you and he's heard it so many times before. If he hears it from you it may not stary very long.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Who do you know that can tell him how important a wink can be, that telling you thanks for looking good has more value than money..... Do you have mutual friends that when they do this you can point it out to your H? By saying "look how she responded"

I hear your Taker talking (and maybe deservedly so), but i also hear your giver still keeping things in balence, your doing good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . He is not giving back to your giver (in the BIG ways), and it is frustrating...

But you have said there are many daily changes for the good, and maybe this is just a learning bump in the road, an opportuntiy for the both of you to learn and change some more....

I've bought less than full price gifts, less quality the I could have. I was worried about the bills. But you make a very good point about the difference between WalMart tools and Craftsman. The focus is not on the quality of the gift, but making him realize he can (he already knows he should) afford better. If he feel better about spending more for more quality, better quality you'll get.....

I think I would not downplay the importance of the material, financial support, money has highest value thing. I would elevate the emotional aspects to the same level, to where making each other feel good has just as much value

Gota run and start the day,

God Bless, and take care

DRS

No...it's not that flowers aren't a gift...they are the same exact thing I recieved for the past 3 occasions in our life. This was a special occasion.

The night did not go spiraling down when hubby did not tell me I looked nice...the night was a flop because of many things. I tried at every turn to overlook each thing...but once it was evident it was a bomb...each thing became extremely apparent.

Actually both hubby and I read the book. We're night and day in every aspect...personalities, desires, EVERYTHING. So yes...we're the opposite. He decided I needed him to spend quality time with me...so we go more places now. It helps...it just didn't save this particular night.

On a regular basis I have kept my expectations low and enjoyed the things we have done together much more. I realize this was an old bad habit of mine and have done my best to be better at it. This night was special...I made it clear it meant a lot to me. I know my own expectations and hopes are what left me disappointed...but I also think it's ridiculous to expect that as a MARRIED PERSON I am to expect nothing ever from my spouse in the way of affection, appreciation or attention. If that's the case...why on earth would I be married?

While I'm fully willing to own my part in the failure of the evening...I'm no longer willing to sweep hubbies lack of effort under the rug until next time. He screwed up...he took the evening for granted even though he had prior warning...he didn't put forth any more effort than he saw absolutely necessary. Yes, he spent a few bucks, went downtown and got me flowers...but he did it because he thought it fit the bill good enough.

okay... so how does your H feel about the Harley stuff? Would he read His Needs/Her Needs? There is a workbook... it gets really specific about the needs of each person and each person dilineates EXACTLY HOW they like that need to be filled... but your H has to commit to fulfilling your top 5 needs the WAY you need them fulfilled...

and... if you answer the questions you raised... you'd be rich <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> :

you said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish they wouldn't ask what we expect or want for a special occasion. I'd rather they just actually THINK about it and DO SOMETHING. I just have such a hard time wrapping my head around why it's sooo difficult to pay enough attention to the person you LIVE WITH 7 days a week to know their likes and dislikes. My girlfriends, whom I see once a month...know me better. What's the deal with that??!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AAANDD.... You are right. Just be careful of the 'right' position. My H and I often argue... or rather, I talk and he listens mutely... as I talk and talk and talk to get him to see MY SIDE just this ONCE... and when we're right in the middle of it... it's NOT gonna happen... (we had this one this morning... but I'm CHANGING THE DYNAMICS)...

Only you can decide how much this particular issue is worth to you... and only you can make it as BIG or as small as you need it to be...

Lastly... doesn't it feel good to argue and not be worried that this argument will push someone out the door?? IT'S SO GOOD TO FEEL NORMAL AGAIN!!

Cali

I don't know who could help Desert. I agree that coming from me it goes in one ear and out the other...or it's taken in as criticism and proves his point that I'm unpleasable. I'm almost ready to consider counseling again. The first counselor we saw was horrible...and we weren't really in recovery. The second one was inexperienced and practically talked us out of the marraige...because we are incompatible. My [censored]...we both just really need some guidance and structure in our lives.

Sometimes it hurts though, to read all the posters on this board who's spouses are "sure" the marriage is over etc...and to see all the effort they put forth and all they endure in order to try to salvage their marriage because their love for their spouse is so strong. I pursued hubby...he never pursued me...I left hubby...he never pursued me...I came back...he still doesn't pursue me. When I left he put forth the effort to sign up to dating services and such. He was willing to put forth effort to move on. But yet he won't pick up a book on romance (and this house is FULL OF THEM) and try to learn something...he won't seek out a website (and I have several in my favorites!!!) to try to get answers. I guess I see effort as love...and when hubby puts forth no effort towards me I feel EXTREMELY unloved. He seems to think I'm just supposed to understand that he loves me...period...with nothing action wise to back it up as proof.