Ok, Hope, I believe I still have access to the MB cyber frying pan, 7 whacks to your H enough? (Of course it is not officially MB approved <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). I didn't mean to frustrate you.

My H & I have been married 19 years now, special occasions are not special to him, they are to me, and he's done a good job certainly the last 2 years, and many other times before the bad times. It is a mutual effort, partly attitude adjustment on my part & stepped up effort on his. But we had a lot of disasters too.

One year he was out of town on my birthday, I was home sick, with kids sick, he didn't call. Brought me back a T shirt, no other gift. Yikes, I think I was angry for a month... a few months later his PA started. So, disappointment in special occasions isn't a light issue for me either.

But like anything, you can't make your H do something. All you can do is control your own behavior, and hopefully make it as positive & proactive as you can.

Well crud...I just posted and either didn't click send or something...

Anyway...Desert...I don't know who can help...I'm ready to consider counseling again. We've never actually gone for recovery...always seems I was trying to decide if I even WANTED to work on the marriage. Well...I do and while things are good is probobly the best time!

Cali - I bought the book and the workbook. I read the book to him...most parts anyway. If he wants to read it..it's on the shelf...along with tons of books on romance and relationships. They are as availble to him as they are to me. I will look through the workbook again. We did answer all the questions, but I don't think we got specific enough. Our schedule is so darn busy we tend to try to put off stuff like that...but I guess it needs to take more priority.

I hear you Lor...I'm not frustrated with you...just with the situation. And I agree...I can only control my self. I wish things would have gone better...but it's no marriage breaker that they didn't. I just really hope he starts giving these things a bit more thought.

I intend on giving hubby a little special attention tonight. Cook his favorite meal...clean the house up (he likes that)..things like that. I had a bad day yesterday and kind of needed some alone time...I think he still thinks I'm upset...and this post probably won't help that!! But...I guess he can use it as an opportunity for getting ideas...or he can decide to withdrawl. Whatever...I can't choose that for him.

I do need to focus on my part at this point...and I plan on that. I just felt I made a big enough deal about our upcoming Anniversary on here that I'd better give an update...plus it does help to vent.

And Spacecase...what the HECK IS SO FUNNY!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Ahh well...I think it's funny in a way too....one thing I rarely lose is my sense of humour. It just become a bit edgy and sarcastic when I'm upset <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think some of you might have said these things, and I may be wrong, but I will say it anyway.

WOMEN!!! GUYS ARE PROCRASTINATORS!!! They will wait till the last minute to plan things. Damn it---- give us guys a chance. I get so pissed when my wife makes plans all the time. I feel lost, unworthy, it takes my joy right out of the evening. I totally understand what your H felt that night and why he did not respond, especially if you always plan things (I could be wrong I am just telling you how I would have felt). Guys love to do things for their wifes. It completes them and they feel empty if they are not allowed. Don't get me wrong, I like it when my wife takes control of the wheel occassionally and plans a great evening, but I get pissed when she does not allow me to do it in my own time frame. She knows I wait to the last second, yet she makes me feel guilty for not doing it her way and so I never want to plan things. This aplies to Christmas too. I get gifts in late December because I want to, not because I don't love my wife, and she turns it around and says I do not care for her because of this.

You read mars and venus in the bedroom so you know that this aplies to sex and to life. After all, sex is just an extension of life anyways. Sorry for being blunt, it just struck a chord with me and my wife.

The other point I would like to make is you expected and tried to hard to make the evening work. Try to enjoy each other not the things you do together. You doomed the evening before it even started. Why be mad at him and want an apology. He might have been waiting for an apology from you. He might have only resorted to saying he is sorry because he did not know what else to do, and he does not understand why you are so upset.

Maybe I am wrong. People that know me here know that I have been wrong quite a bit. Sorry if I came off strong. Lots of things going on for me too.

Lol! I'm reading the book too.

Hubby actually told me that (it was one of his favorite excuses, if you ask me). GIVE ME A CHANCE to plan something. So I DID!! But to ensure that it didn't go completely unplanned...because I suspected as much that he'd planned NOTHING...I asked him what he had planned. He said NOTHING. So I told him my idea and asked him if he wanted me to plan it. I wanted to have a good time...not just wander around the town we go to for shopping hoping something interesting would come up to do.

Procrastination is an excuse. And I'm waaaaay past tired of the excuses. If you needed to get your car in to be serviced you'd make the appointment...so I think a marriage deserves as much attention as the damn car!!! (Now I'll probably get a chamois for christmas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

hey... a really GOOD chamois is EXPENSIVE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Cali

ROTFLMAO!!! Yes..and can be worn as an attractive seduction article....

Say...maybe I'll go clip the picture out of the Alco add and put it on the fridge. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm thinking of a whole clothing line MEN can buy their wives and still be useful... especially a teeny, tiny skirt and triangle top <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ August 07, 2002, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Cali ]</small>

Hope,
2, maybe 3 chamois, punch a couple holes, add leather ties and you've got yourself an excellent halter top & skirt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> for those...interesting moments.

I did that out of fruit rollups and licorice laces one time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now the fruit rollups all have cutouts on them, they're harder to work with!!

I'm going to cut out the chamois pic and put it on the fridge...that'll confuse him good, LOL!!

Procrastination can be used as an excuse by us guys, but typically it is just an excuse, so you have to find out why he did not plan the event, and I am telling you why we typically use procrastination as an excuse.

Remember mars and venus book, we are by nature different from women. Do not expect from us guys what you would expect from women. It won't happen. For us to be creative or spontaneous looking we need a long list of things to do and our spontinaity is chosing something from the list.

We do things differently, maybe he thought one week was enough to plan the event (can you not plan the event in one day?). So is it procrastination or time management?

So why did you Plan the event. Did you not believe in your husband? Did you really give him a chance? He senses this and has probably delt with this for years and has gotten to the point where he does not care to plan events anymore, he expects it of you.

Just a different perspective partially being the devils advocate.

You can be the devils advocate if you like...I gave him within 2 weeks...then I asked him if he had planned anything. He said he had not. I then asked him what his ideas were....and gave him mine. He agreed mine sounded fine and so I asked him if he would like me to take care of it. He was thrilled.

I planned the event as a gift TO HIM...so that he would not have to do it. I would have loved it if he had told me YES I have something planned, or yes, I know what I would really like to do and I'll get that planned. He had no ideas, and had obviously given it little thought...so I did it so as to assure we did something more along the lines that I had in mind. It had nothing to do with believing in him. I had a fairly GOOD IDEA that he had nothing planned....history has give me no other basis for believing otherwise. Remember...actions mean as much if not more than words.

Why did I think a week was not enough time? Because we have to line up a sitter...and that is a really difficult job here. I needed to know when we were going and for how long etc etc...so as to start the calling process to get someone lined up. A week would NOT have been enough time. This is a fact...not an emotionally based perception.

As far as gift giving is concerned...I really could care less WHEN hubby goes shopping for my gift, but if he hasn't even given it a thought and it's 2 hours until gift opening time...exactly how appropriate do you think that gift will be? It's kind of like that Arnold Swartzeneiger movie, Jingle all the way. Wait until the last minute and then you can't get what you intended. THAT is not good time management...it's sloppy.

I'm willing to try to wrap my brain around the fact that men and women are different (I'm reading the Dobsen book on raising boys right now and he reiterates that fact)...but please think about this. How would you like it if having a clean and tidy home with clean clothes and a nice meal a few times a week was what you needed to feel like your wife was being a loving wife. Yet every day you came home to clothes on the floor, clean clothes still wrinkled in the basket, dirty kitchen and bathroom, and tv dinners if you're lucky? And each day you'd pick up everything, straighten and tidy up, and tell wife how much you'd appreciate it if she did those things for you. And her reply was "I was getting to it, you just didn't give me a chance" or "sorry, I just didn't understand how important it was to you" or "oh gee, I just don't get it???" At some point would that start sounding like an excuse to you?

I know you aren't having ANY needs met right now...and even if you were the perfect H your wife wouldn't come close to appreciating it because she's lost right now. But I'm talking in a healthy, day to day marriage...not being noticed gets old after a while.

And for the record...in the past I NEVER DID plan events...we simply didn't DO ANYTHING. That was ME trying to do things differently.

It wasn't his lack of planning the occasion that hurt me....it was his lack of attention and appreciation both for my efforts, in notice of it being a special occasion, and simply being a GOOD DATE that chaffed my hide.

Ok, I just have to say a few things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope,

Good grief there is so much to say about your post and so little time. I skimmed over many of the responses as I don't have a lot of time today. So I apologize for repeating what others may have said. I think all of the responses are on the mark.

I must tell you a story. My sister dated very seriously a fellow in college, I mean seriously. Well, they graduate and somehow the relationship sort of dies, but they keep in contact. She moves, starts to work, and a few years later meets a fellow, falls for him and they marry. Now this fellow grew up on a farm, his folks are hard working, his mother will talk anyones ear off and Dad has few things to say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It seems that the exBF is coming through thier town and calls up Sis and asks her to lunch. Her H is reading the paper, and she asks him if it is OK. He says sure fine and so she agrees. Now she has date to meet exBF for lunch. But, it is bugging her that her H didn't seem jealous. In fact, it is really steaming her (she has a temper believe me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). So next day H is sitting reading the paper and she just sort of blurts out, "doesn't it bother you that I am having lunch with this guy?" Silence for a moment and then he responds: "He had his chance." End of discussion.

Two almost three decades later she still tells this story, and they both laugh. You see, while it just frosted her, that he wasn't jealous, one of the reasons she loved/loves him is that he is "grounded" doesn't get mad, doesn't get freaked out, and is slow to anger, very much the opposite of her. THat response simply reconfirmed in her head exactly what she loved about him. He was cool, he was not jealous, and he was RIGHT.

WHy did I tell you this shaggy dog story? Because if you look back on your first post, your anniversary was absolutely guarenteed to fail in your eyes. Your H was right, there was no way he could have come out of it anything but the loser. That is why men stay away from these situations as much as we can. When it comes to romantic situations, we most times lose because we cannot live up to the fantasy. Most men stay away from wedding planning for the same reason, it is NOT OUR FANTASY that is happening here. It is HER fantasy.

You have no doubt burned him more than once in this type of situation. And so, he stays as far away as he can. You have trained him to fear this type of thing and to know he isn't any good at it. You struggled to forgive him, and have patience with him the whole time, even before things really went wrong. He senses that and is like a deer in the headlights, no move is a good move, and not moving gets you run over.

Hope, I am going to tell you somethings that you may not consider. I have had 26 anniversaries. I try to get my W something nice, take her to dinner, but many years our childrens stuff gets in the way or we are traveling, so it is low key. It doesn't make any difference to me. You see I do NOTE another year has gone by, and I try to get her something nice. She rarely gets me anything, perhaps a card (they are oK). But doing great things on that day doesn't define the marriage, how on a day to day basis we treat each other. You see it is the day to day things that celebrate a good marriage.

I realize you like the SPECIAL things. I realize you want H to turn into the sort of romantic that one sees on TV, but he isn't that way. I would invite you to ask him something. Ask him if he enjoys sex with you? Then ask him if he is glad you two are back together? Does he often think of these things or does he do it once a year? Is he happy with you?

I think those answers should be more special to you than whatever he could have done.

I realize you set up something SPECIAL and it didn't turn out that way. My guess is that he would have just as soon gone camping with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You set him up to fail and he did, and then you want him to beg your forgiveness for doing this. Do I have the picture right???

My questions to you are: Is he a good man? Do you love him? If so, just realize the OM and other men in the world "had their chance."

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Monday comes and I'm thinking "hubby better do something to redeem himself and he'd better get a MOVE ON!!!" Cause in my book, expediency counts WAY MORE than saying the "right" thing. Giving a heartfelt apology within 24 hours counts WAAAAAY more than a dozen roses a week after the fact. That's a darn good way to find out what orafaces can double as a vase! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Look at that one paragraph, would you want to celebrate an event with someone that thought that way about you???

Some things to think about Hope. Next time talk with him about the anniverary. Ask HIM what he thinks would be a good way to celebrate. Make a plan, give him his marching orders, explicit marching orders, do your agreed upon part, and see if perhaps the two of you can come up with something you both enjoy. Just remember "romantic" is not a synonym for "spontaneaous". It has something to do with a situation you BOTH like.

My dictionary has the following definitions:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1 : consisting of or resembling a romance
2 : having no basis in fact : IMAGINARY
3 : impractical in conception or plan : VISIONARY
4 a : marked by the imaginative or emotional appeal of what is heroic, adventurous, remote, mysterious, or idealized b often capitalized : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of romanticism c : of or relating to music of the 19th century characterized by an emphasis on subjective emotional qualities and freedom of form; also : of or relating to a composer of this music
5 a : having an inclination for romance : responsive to the appeal of what is idealized, heroic, or adventurous b : marked by expressions of love or affection c : conducive to or suitable for lovemaking
6 : of, relating to, or constituting the part of the hero especially in a light comedy </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Talk with your H about these definitions and decide between the two of you which one or ones you and he would like to use in the future.

Hope something I have said will help.

God Bless,

JL

JL...I don't not appreciate my husband. I do like him for his solidity and I never once wished I was with someone who would have/could have done it better. I didn't ever intend on setting up the night for H to fail. A simple acknowledgment on his part...basic date stuff...would have quieted down that panicky voice in my head. I tried to set it up so that hubby could win with flying colors.

Yes, I have set him up to fail in the past...and I believe that probably had somewhat of a bearing in this instance. But I'm trying to CHANGE the patterns we've fallen into in the past...and me planning the event was just that...different than in the past.

I love my husband and I don't intend to get my hopes up like that again any time soon. But it doesn't change the fact that he has enjoyed 10 years of my attentions, and really given little efforts to reciprocate. I QUIT giving him cards and flowers because HE DOESN'T give a hoot about them, but I DO. And while you are asking me not to try to change him to fit my profile of a hubby...I don't think it's fair to ask me to change my hopes and dreams to fit him and his desire to have an "easy" wife either. I married simplicity, and he married complexity. I'm willing to meet in the middle...but that means he's got to come part way too!!

Hope,

No, he doesn't need to meet you part way unless the two of you agree as to what that means.

That is my point. Show him those definitions of "romance" and see where he sits with regard to them. Let me offer you a suggestion, not for you to do it, but make you think. OK?

He probably doesn't like to shop, I don't really. He probably doesn't have a lot of time to shop, I don't either. I sense from your posts that you aren't close to any "good" shopping. So what is he to do? Well one solution is for you two to sit down with one or two catelogues one night and "shop" for your anniversary, birthday, whatever gift. When you see something that would mean something to you and you would like tell him. Perhaps give him several choices, and either go buy it or agree that he will order one of them. Now fair warning I have only ordered onething on line for my W. It was for her birthday and it arrived 6 weeks late and I ordered it a month in advance.

But, my point is work with him on this. I would much rather buy my W something she really wants and means something to her, than just something I "think" she might like.

Oh and I had a comment about the "money" thing. Money has many uses but "security" is a key one. Most guys I know and certainly me, aren't reluctant to spend because we want to do something else with it. We save it for security, it is our way of taking care of the family and it can become very hard to spend money when one gets into that mode of thinking. "We might need it for an emergency" is very compelling.

If you want him to meet you part way on this thing, you need to sit down with him and show him were part way is.

I don't know much, but I do know he would much rather have you happy than sad. You can bet a large sum of money on that fact.

God Bless,

JL

Ok...I hear you there. We do need to sit down so we actually come to an agree what half way is! I hear you...I do.

I know this point hasn't come across well because I HAVE been venting and I was upset at hubbies lack of the simplest attention...but I am just as upset at MYSELF for GETTING my hopes up that high. That was an OLD TRAP I KNEW...I SAW myself setting up. I didn't intend it, yet as it got closer and closer to the date...I could feel it. I just really really want to be allowed to feel excited about special occasions...but as of yet I guess I'm not equipped to handle that. Hope don't expect...I teach it but I still just couldn't quite get it. I let myself down just as much, probably more than, hubby did.

Well shoot...they didn't build Rome in a day... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Our marriage means a lot to me and overall it's so fantastically better than it ever was. This really was a totally MINOR setback, and more so MINE.

I'm going to make him a special meal and clean the house up today...maybe plan a time for us to sit down and talk about all this stuff. I want to encourage him...not shove it down his throat.

**sigh**

Oh, and shopping is actually one of the things hubby and I enjoy doing together! He likes to shop just fine...he just doesn't want to buy out every store. I'm totally understanding of that and we seem to have a good time just wandering around looking at things.

It's odd to have a hubby who likes to shop...most don't. I really am lucky <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your intentions are very noble and I wish my WW would do the same for me.

I do not know all of your situation hope, and I do not know your husband. I was just throwing out what may be why your husband does not plan. I am sorry if I angered you. Please forgive me.

I do think it is important to get to the reason why your H did not plan the event. It seems that you deeply desired him to do this. You want your H to plan events to think ahead of time to buy gifts. To show by his actions that he truly loves you. It seems this is very important on your list of EN's.

Quick questions:
Think back, during the entire time you have known your H, has he ever planned events? Has he ever thought ahead of time to buy you gifts? Has he ever showed you he loved you by his actions?

If he has, then he is capable of doing these things again. The problem may be motivation. For me, I think I had a motivation problem. I stopped working on our marriage and became comfortable with us. My wife always planned all of our events and I became comfortable with that. After all, when I tried to plan events, I did not plan it in time or to her liking, so if she wanted to go ahead, I was happy in letting her because I did not have to deal with the discomfort that she brought to me. Recently, I do think ahead and try to plan nice events (not just on anniversaries and such). I have came to the point where I can say that I do not care what she thinks about my planning techniques, I was going to do it my way and not try to get approval (Passionate Marriage helped me with this). I try to surprise her. For example, in October we are going to the Rolling Stones concert. I was going to surprise her, but unfortunately the stupid credit card bill detailed everything and I did not catch it on time. My planning no longer depends upon my wife's approval of my plan. I do not need validation of my gifts to her. I get what I think she needs. (I keep a running list in my wallet hidden. Whenever she mentions that she would like this or like that, I write it down on the list so that I have plenty of ideas to chose from come gift time. Not too romantic, but it is the best I can do, and I am O.K. with that.)

If he has not ever planned events or thought ahead for gifts, then he may need asistance and support in planning events and thinking ahead of time to buy gifts. You may have to give him christmas lists or hint for things you may want around your anniversary, etc.

Remember passionate marriage. You planned the event anyways so that you would do something nice for your anniversary. You could have just assisted him instead of taking over all of the planning. Was it really a gift to him or to yourself?

About marriages: I believe all marriages regardless of infidelity have their ups and their downs. (Interestingly my WW read that infidelity affects roughly 80% of all marriages). Infidelity is a bump in the road in a marriage and is unhealty, but so isn't spouses not meeting each other's needs.

If day after day I came home and my WW did not cook and clean and wash clothes and that is truly what I wanted out of my marriage. I would love her anyways. I would let her know that I desired for her to pick up, and clean, and cook because I worked and it is difficult for me to do both. At some point along the way if her actions continued, I would realize that this is how she is and will always be, and I would have to decide that I need to change what I expect out of my wife for us to work. I would graciously accept my lot to assist in cleaning and focus on other things that my WW does to express her love for me.

There are many ways to express love. People have different gifts and are good at different things. Sometimes it only takes a shift in focus to see how someone is trying to love and ignore what your expectations of love are.

Just my thoughts.

I liked what JL said he has quite a bit of wisdom.

Hey Cham, no offense taken. The event planning WASN'T the problem. Yes, I hope in the future some time he might ask me on a simple date or something and figure out for himself what we will do...but as long as we continue to DO THINGS we are on a different track than in the past. We used to sit around and WISH we were doing something. That WASN'T the problem.

I planned it...he knew it was special...he didn't even act like we were DOING something special on a special day. He didn't look at me in my sexy low cut (boobs hanging out all over the place) dress and strappy sandals and tell me I looked nice or Happy Anniversary, or that he had a nice time or isn't this fun or I like being with you, or DIDDLY SQUAT. He asked for directions to the place, he drove, he pretended his knife was getting off on the bread....and he turned the TV on and read the local attraction guide instead of helping me out of what I was already barely in. THAT was the problem. You see now?? I wanted ATTENTION, not his planning of the event.

You sound like a HOT date. I can feel the heat from here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So did he give you a reason why he was not responsive? Maybe aliens took your husband off and replaced him with a non-gender alien. You know, I heard about all of the cows being slaughtered out there mysteriously. Kinda makes you wonder where the aliens took your husband.

Anyway, you are right about my needs not getting filled. God what I would'nt do for just a real hug and a real kiss that I did not force on her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am getting crazier these days. I have spent around 6 hours online today. Not much work accomplished.

Well it is time for me to leave work. I have a date with my WW tonight. Maybe her boobs will be hanging out. I tell you one thing, if they are, she better look out. I don't ignore that stuff. LOL LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Have a great evening Hope. Thanks for all your help. Catch you tomorrow.