Well WAT you may have found the true benefit of being a WS… free/instant transportation to anywhere on the mother ship.

So if she did not have an affair. Then is she really having a marriage? Hmmmm more alien stuff to consider.

As for watching the train wreck… we are watching the one STL’s ex-WW is riding. It started in 1998 when he left him to live with the love of her life. They have not married but still live together. Now she and Mr. Soul Mate are ‘only living together for convenience. There is nothing there for them.” That’s what she tells STL as she chases him, asks him to meet her places, and asks him out for dates. But in true WS fog style she has forgotten to tell Mr. Wonderful that their relationship is a convenience. Every few months she comes up with a new plan of where she is going to move in the good old USA to run away from her new paradise. But the move never happens, the new job never comes through and she never tells Mr. One and Only that she does not love him and wants to leave. It appears that she is now trapped in a hell of her own making.

And like your situation… the children are caught up in this and it hurts them.

What amazes me in all the stories is how predictable they are.

HI WAT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

WOW! While reading your post, my jaw dropped to the floor and just stayed there for a good, long while! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Are you okay? It might be tempting to try to convince yourself that they are happy and in love and all that while you are alone, but don't even go there... It's just a good thing you know what you know about infidelity and SAA... You'll be fine, my friend. And so will I, once I get over the shock of this new development... What they have done is SOOOOOO stupid, but oh, there *I* go!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God will provide for you as you provide for your son. I pray that you would get a raise and not even feel the payments. It's the right thing to do--for your boy. Maybe the CS money can be put into a trust fund for when he graduates college? Talk to your ex about it, she might be open to something like that. (((HUGS))) & thanks for the update. Good seeing your post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pepper - I don't know if you're into classics, but there's this great novel by Goethe, called "Die Wahlverwandtschaften" (meaning - relatives by choice). It's the story about two couples who think the other's partner is more suited for them.... and that's where the problems start!
I mean Goethe is really cool and he has got the whole thing figured out way back in the 19 century!

Thanks all for the terrific replys and insights. One of my co-workers asked me the other day, "Where have you found the strength?" It was difficult to describe that for the most part, it's scattered amongst all of you here.

We had a productive session with <son's> counselor yesterday. <Son> said he was waiting for me to bring up the marriage and is glad I didn't interrogate him about it. But he also added that he feels guilty being around OM because he knows I don't like him. He feels he's betraying me a bit by enjoying being around him, but now that I've accepted the situation, he feels better about it. I responded that, yes, I've accepted things I cannot change, but that doesn't mean that I approve or like it.

Apparently that was exactly the wrong thing for me to say.

<Son> immediately went into his defense of his Mom and OM, describing how OM's XW and I have been wrong, wrong, wrong about them having an affair. He says he knows "cheating" is very wrong and they didn't do that.

He also added that I shouldn't feel threatened because I'll always be his Dad and there's nothing that will change that, but now he has a step Dad with whom he wants to have a good relationship and it's his decision about who his friends will be.

The counselor and I tried to assure him that my dislike of the situation was no reflection on him and further, that I'll very likely dislike numerous decisions he makes growing up. But that doesn't mean I'll try to change his decisions.

So, some reassurance, but more confirmation that he's just as confused as his Mom about what transpired. And my concern for him feels justified from the standpoint that he's gonna very likely witness another marriage breakup from close range.

I know what to do. Nothing. Nothing, that is, to add more to his confusion and nothing to try to convince him otherwise. I am a patient man and I believe I can bite my lip and let him figure out things on his own. But the Father in me wants to protect him from further hurt not of his making. I guess I'll get the chance to soothe the hurt when it comes - and this is the best I can do.

Thanks again.

Dave

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>

<Son> immediately went into his defense of his Mom and OM, describing how OM's XW and I have been wrong, wrong, wrong about them having an affair. He says he knows "cheating" is very wrong and they didn't do that.

Dave</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dave, as par for the course your XW is truly unbelievable, at least she doesn't change her manta......the sad thing is the brainwashing she has done on your son. My heart breaks for him, knowing that one day, he will be old enough to logically process all that has happen, he will add 2+2 & finally get 4, when he does.....

The urge to set your son staight must be hard & have the will power to not do so..... well, you have always been one of my heros.

You are one of the best......

the LB fairie would love to come out & set your XW straight but she is rained in here in H-town, plus today is OS's 18th bday, time passes so fast, and speakings of Ss, it is time to start rolling them out of bed

Dave,

You wrote: "<Son> immediately went into his defense of his Mom and OM, describing how OM's XW and I have been wrong, wrong, wrong about them having an affair. He says he knows "cheating" is very wrong and they didn't do that.

He also added that I shouldn't feel threatened because I'll always be his Dad and there's nothing that will change that, but now he has a step Dad with whom he wants to have a good relationship and it's his decision about who his friends will be."

RMA response: Dave, I pegged this in my post to you earlier. Please understand what is paramount to your son RIGHT NOW. It is this in a nutshell: ACCEPTANCE, APPROVAL and ASSURANCE of his MOTHER's love. You and your love are a given in his life. He NEEDS to try to do all that he can right now to ensure that his mother won't abandon him again via the new marriage. Just remember, he is seeing the situation through a confused and hurt young teen's eyes. One day (sooner than you can imagine) he will be a young man and he will reflect on this situation differently that he is currently seeing it.

I know you are hurting by it all, and I am super sorry for that.

Hugs and prayers, RMA

Thanks Ladies - I think I finally got it: I should interpret his willingness to tell ME I'm wrong and challenge MY interpretation of things as reassurance that he's comfortable in knowing I'm not going to desert him and I can be trusted with his view of things. It's a lot safer challenging me than challenging his Mom. Besides, he wants to believe her version of things because it's the least painful course right now for him.

OK, I feel a lot better. Thanks.

sing - enjoy your son's BD. I know you're his hero!

Dave

You got it WAT. There will come a day when he is strong enough to say what he knows is the truth. My son has come to that point now about his father.

I do hope you are doing ok.

WAT:

"As many have said here before, it's like watching a slow train wreck. "

I find myself picturing one of those Edgerton films, taken at a million frames per second, of hydrogen bomb fireballs consuming the tower and guywires just after detonation. Trouble is, a million frame/sec movie of a train wreck would take years to watch. Hence the metaphor...

I'm so sorry for what this must be doing to your family, particularly your kids. How truly horrible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

WAT:

"I know what to do. Nothing. Nothing, that is, to add more to his confusion and nothing to try to convince him otherwise. I am a patient man and I believe I can bite my lip and let him figure out things on his own. But the Father in me wants to protect him from further hurt not of his making. I guess I'll get the chance to soothe the hurt when it comes - and this is the best I can do."

Be very careful, here. If your son is anything like mine (15yr old), he's a very sensitive, caring, and thus somewhat fragile person. My son recently started sleep walking! Night before last, my W thought she heard him walk out the front door and down the street at 1am, then return about 2. She was groggy enough that she wasn't sure it happened, but it looks like it might have.

My biggest fear is that my son will become vulnerable to pressure to take drugs. He's pretty smart, though... ...but I thought I was too, then I partook of some funny little plants back in the early 70's to impress a chick.

Be the caring, TRUE dad that you are, but also be careful and watchful. These are delicate years for your son.

Dave,

I think you have been given very good advice about your Son's protection of his mother. It makes sense to me. I think this is what the term "whatever" is really designed for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Now what won't make too much sense to you is that your S is 14 and is about to partake of "teenage" logic. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Heck got a rack of them. I hope that between you and the counselor, the two of you can sort out what is due to your exW's behavior and what is do to the "normal" teenage logic.

You have been through a double lose and I really don't know how you have handled it so well.

Your son has had sort of a lose and a half. His brother is gone, his family is torn up, but he still has both of you. I can imagine that he will try mightly to keep BOTH of you in his life. I doubt he could handle seeing either of you as the "bad guy" in this. When he is older and more mature, he will know the truth (he knows it now) and be able to admit it.

You will be the "bad guy" anyway going through the teenage years. It is a father/son thing, just as there is a mother/daughter thing. But, I always take solice in Mark Twain's comments about his Dad.

When I was 17 my Dad was the dumbest man I knew. It is truely remarkable how much he has learned in the last four years.

Dave, trust me your IQ is going to lower quite a bit, but then it will soar. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Mine is actually going in both directions right now. A 22 year old son, and a 15 year old son. The D 19 has always thought I was smarter than the dog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang in there. What I suspect is that if the newlyweds fall on hard times, you won't take much satisfaction from that either, although you will know it was deserved. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hang in there Dave.

God Bless,

JL

WAT,

I am sorry your going through this..

and the one thing that really bothered me in your post was your attitude about the child support..
I guess because I have seen so many ppl with this attitude towards 'their' money..

I realize you only make x amount of money a month..but this is YOUR CHILD!!! It shouldn't matter how much money her new husband makes..He
is YOUR CHILD!! YOURS!! NOT HIS!!

You should want to do what ever you can to support your son with whatever financial means you can..so that he doesn't feel that you, his dad doesn't think he is not worth supporting..

This other man's income shouldn't come in to play when it comes to how much financial support YOU give YOUR SON..Not to your ex-wife..but YOUR SON!!

Just think..Now your not helping support HER through that child support..more of that financial support can go directly to your sons activities..clothes and other things he wants and enjoys..and not to help cover living expenses for them..a house payment, a car payment, the electric bill, the whatever..that money can be more freely spent on your son..as it should be..just as it would have been had the two of you stayed together..

child support is put in place by the courts for a reason..to help support your SON..and it doesn't matter how much money a new spouse might make..it doesn't change your responsibilities as HIS FATHER to support him..do you want this man to support him totally?

If it bothers you that much then maybe you need to evaluate what you think your responsibilities should be towards your son as his father..

If I ever get remarried I sure hope my ex doesn't think the man would or even should take over his responsibility of supporting our kids..after all they are our kids...not mine and a maybe future husbands..

Tr,

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: sing ]</small>

Thanks for sharing this with us. You do sound amazingly calm, all things considered. Can you bottle some of that up and sell it to me? I could really use some of that calm power!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It makes sense to me too... that your son is looking for security in his mother's love right now. And since you're the 'safer' one to vent (?) to, I'll bet that you'll have a lot of issues to deal with that aren't really even yours! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (i.e. your son being upset/confused/etc with his mum, but letting that anger and frustration out on you).

I'm glad that he's already 14 now. That means you won't have too many years to wait until he comprehends this situation in its entirity.

Oh.. and I like Sheryl's suggestion of the lawn chair and beer. Cheers to you Dave!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You've exhibited more class than most of us put together (IMO of course! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). The least you can do is toast yourself for that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Karen

ThornedRose - I'm sure your intentions were good. Rest assured mine are as well. I don't think I need to defend my supprot of my sons - either the deceased one or the surviving one.

Thanks for your concern.

You had a child die? For some reason I didn't catch that (I'm not always very observant, I don't get much time to post). I have read that a lot of marriages have trouble surviving the death of a child, do you think this was a factor in your M? Just curious.

WAT,

I'm sorry that sounded so harsh..It's just a very sore topic..I've just seen so many of my friends who have had ex's that looked it at that way..and literally quit paying child support because their spouses remarried people who made more money..

It's not just men who I've seen do this..I've had women friends who have done the same thing, and I was just as angry about it then..I've had one friend complain she had to pay so much child support..(she was supposed to pay $75 a month) for her son..and not send it..because her ex had more money than she did when he remarried..but then she would go out and spend $100 at the bar drinking, playing pool and darts, and spend $50 on a pair of new shoes, and another $80 on a new outfit that she didn't need..it's not that her son wasn't being provided for that bothered me because he was..his dad was wonderful..It just
bothered me that she did it..and then complain that he didn't want to see her..

My dad did the same thing..he didn't want to pay child support for my brother--because my mom started dating someone after they were divorced..I wasn't even living at home when they divorced...but I was still at home when he moved out..and my mom wasn't seeing anyone..and he didn't pay support then either..yet he went out and bought himself a new car..new clothes, and all these new things while we went with out..my mom worked two jobs to make ends meet..this was over 20 years ago and the laws weren't what they are today..so as an adult looking back and as a single mother..I can see why they are in place..
My mom never did remarry..my dad remarried the lady he was seeing when they divorced..he bought my mom out of their home..and he made thousands of dollars of repairs that needed done..from before he ever moved out..and they moved into the home we had been embarrassed to even bring our friends into..

I know your not blowing your money on frivolous things..it's just it struck a cord with me this morning..and I'm sorry if I offended you..

findingmywayback -
I can answer that one for you - most know the story - I'll send you something K?
E

Dave -

I'm kind of glad that I'll never have to see the day [censored] gets remarried. I think that will be the day when I turn inside out through my left ear.

Sad that he would choose a partner over his children.... I just can't fathom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You sound like you'll be okay though.

If I had a million dollars buddy, you would be on my list of people to share with.

Um, buddy, sorry - I'll never have a million dollars. Got five bucks till Friday?

E

TR - I understand your logic, but I believe child support laws are based on an assumption that the paying parent won't support the child otherwise. This is probably a fair assumption in many cases. But consider this - the CS I pay each month I could otherwise use on my son as well. Denying my XW this needless payment - in her case - doesn't mean it won't get spent on him, or to his benefit. My rub is that her living expenses just dropped significantly - one house vs. two, etc. while the household income just rose significantly. She clearly has more disposable income than before, which was the basis for the original CS calculation. In this State, the CS calculation is intended to "balance" incomes fairly. I guess I'm just too stupid to understand how this has been accomplished in a case like mine.

finding - Yes, I believe the loss of our son was the most instrumental factor leading to my XW's affair. Life crises are frequently cited as the catalyst for affairs. This doesn't mean I believe I didn't play a role - just like all other BSs.

Liz - you're a nut. $5 says you'll find your million someday, somehow.

Dave