GC,

They are right, no need to fret before you talk. It sounds like to me he is not really expecting anything (maybe hoping, not expecting). " We really need to get some things out, at least I do" tells me he is not expecting much from you except to listen to his side. and his side will of course be just that, his side

Email him back and say the day he gets back will be fine, but you can't talk to him until later. You set the time, not him, he's comming to you remember....I know its small but a subtle power play of sorts... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

AHHHH the ole anger tunnel.....btdt. I found I wasn't angry when I knew I had Let it GO. So I did not have anything the be angry about. Vent here, go on vent, vent, vent and oh did i mention vent?

The anger stuff will get in your way. Its real, don't deny it, or bury it. Vent it out, cope and move on, pass thru the tunnel, its short.....

You are the better person, you have grown in ways only God knows about. The last 18 months may not have gone the way you wanted, but I don't think they were totally wasted, especally if you learned anything.

Its OK to be nervous about the meeting with XH (XH because he has not been an H since he left) understandably you don't want to hurt again, who would? But decide, do you want you H back or not??? Do you want to commit to the M and do you want HIM to commit to M also. I know, boundries again....

BTW, another thought, You are NOT the person he left, he may be expecting the old you and have his thought geared for that. He is not the person he was when he left either. And the M you two had no longer exists, it is gone. The new one is yet to be created.....if the two of you decide to do so......

good luck

DRS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by elivi:
<strong>Whatever happens, whatever he says, please try to stay calm and focused on your goal. Time (good times to come once you and H have repaired your marriage) is the best healer of hurts. A strong emotional reaction from you tonight will just hurt the two of you further. Show him how much YOU have changed (Plan A! Plan A!), show him you can be trusted.

If he mentions his loss of feelings for you and his feelings for the OW, I would suggest gently taking responsibility. Tell him "I acknowledge my part in our marriage suffering. I've learned a lot about how to be a better spouse. You've probably seen some of these changes. I know we can regain what we've lost," or something along those lines. Don't lick the floor or anything, but be honest and take responsibility. The best thing to bring back a wandering spouse is the trust that the marriage CAN be repaired and the faithful spouse WILL do his/her part, too.

Remember your new-found strength and let that be your guide - you can do it!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I will try to keep up my strength, conversation will actually be tomorrow evening, doubt if I get any sleep tonight. I have told him that before, how much I have learned, it seemed to have fallen on deaf ears. I just don't think I can handle him being so emotionally down, especially since he seemed to be having all the fun, where was he this whole time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DesertReStart:
<strong>GC,

They are right, no need to fret before you talk. It sounds like to me he is not really expecting anything (maybe hoping, not expecting). " We really need to get some things out, at least I do" tells me he is not expecting much from you except to listen to his side. and his side will of course be just that, his side

Email him back and say the day he gets back will be fine, but you can't talk to him until later. You set the time, not him, he's comming to you remember....I know its small but a subtle power play of sorts... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

AHHHH the ole anger tunnel.....btdt. I found I wasn't angry when I knew I had Let it GO. So I did not have anything the be angry about. Vent here, go on vent, vent, vent and oh did i mention vent?

The anger stuff will get in your way. Its real, don't deny it, or bury it. Vent it out, cope and move on, pass thru the tunnel, its short.....

You are the better person, you have grown in ways only God knows about. The last 18 months may not have gone the way you wanted, but I don't think they were totally wasted, especally if you learned anything.

Its OK to be nervous about the meeting with XH (XH because he has not been an H since he left) understandably you don't want to hurt again, who would? But decide, do you want you H back or not??? Do you want to commit to the M and do you want HIM to commit to M also. I know, boundries again....

BTW, another thought, You are NOT the person he left, he may be expecting the old you and have his thought geared for that. He is not the person he was when he left either. And the M you two had no longer exists, it is gone. The new one is yet to be created.....if the two of you decide to do so......

good luck

DRS</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you're right, time to divorce the old marriage (not legally) and remarry with a fresh start, I hope he sees it that way. BTW, your post has me crying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Awww.... Heres a tissue for you hun. You deserve a good cry with what you have been thru.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong>[QUOTE]I just don't think I can handle him being so emotionally down, especially since he seemed to be having all the fun, where was he this whole time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, if it was all fun and games for him, he wouldn't be moving out of her place now. Obviously, something has gotten through to him that she's not the perfect person he thought she was.

He's screwed up his marriage. He's lost/left this other person that he thought was his future. He deserves to spend some time depressed. <cough> Okay, maybe I should be a better person and not think that way, but you have to hit bottom sometimes before you can turn your life around.

Good luck! Take some deep breaths and try to stay calm. One of you should be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok, I've shot through the anger tunnel, utilized it to get 3 hours of yardwork done. Had lots of time to think doing that this afternoon.

I am going to try to stay calm tomorrow, and try to get through it without crying. He told me 3 weeks ago (soon after starting distancing), that he was sorry. He has told me that he is sorry alot of times since then. He has also told me that day that he has been miserable even though he has acted like he was happy. He told me that he was ashamed and embarassed by what he has done.

He also told me last weekend that he was very comfortable about his decision to leave OW, that he hasn't been that certain for anything in a long time.

I am going to try hard to Plan A (after he initiates contact). After thinking about it, I feel thats my best option. Since he has left OW and does not have needs met there, they are essentially Plan Bing each other. Well, Plan B makes you realize what needs that were getting met, right? So if they are going to Plan B each other, my best option is to Plan A to meet all of his needs (if I knew what the tops one are!) so he won't miss OW meeting his needs.

Does that make sense??

I just read Pepperbands post, I do not want to meet WH's SF need until gets tested for STD's. I guess I will have to wait until we decided to pursue the R to ask that?

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

does anyone know of any good posts, articles on dealing with WS's withdrawal, I have SAA, but I wish it would have discussed it a little more.

GC,

I bet the yard looks really good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I remember times when I would do things just to burn off the stress and clear the thoughts. Once I got out the lawn mower, fixed it up ( it had been a while) and ready, then remembered we don't have any grass. We live in the Arizona desert with rock landscape for a yard <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I sold the lawn mower to a relative. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Realizing the old is gone can be rough, it involves a grieving just as much as tho there had been a tragic loss. Once when my WW and I were talking and she was essentially telling me she was gone for good (don't love you never really did sort of thing) she commented that I didn't look that upset. I told her I had already grieved and moved on... I had gone to acceptance stage and was able to let a lot of things go...

SH told me there are two types of love. Romantic and Caring. IMHO, when your XH left the romantic love stopped (or probably it stopped for him earlier ??) and you only had the caring love left. It kept you for almost 18 months....then you decided to distance yourself from him (stopped showing the caring love) and he started to see some things....like maybe you stopped caring??? and that he was going to have a real loss in his life, you. Hmmmm, maybe he is feeling some effect of losing his M also, grieving a little over that too?

I think you can believe him when he says he is sorry about what he has done. What you, and he, will discover is how much committment will come of it. Others have said you need to be strong now, that is very true. He is in withdrawal and won't really be able to see the level of determination and committment required, you may have to show him by example...

I have read several posts that really touched me, I cried. Being male that used to bother me because I was raised that men don't cry. I'd like to tear that chapter from the book:rolleyes: Now I know holding back tears is also denying and emotion or thought that should be recognized and thought over....when a post touches me I let it touch me....

Our family moring is getting started here, I hope the thoughts you get on the MB help....

GC, I really hope the best for you in you new life

DRS

thanks DesertRestart for your kind words.

Now, he wants to wait until tomorrow morning to talk!!

getting a little worried here, not for sure what to expect from conversation tomorrow. He emailed me this morning and said he would come tomorrow. I replied back and asked when he was coming and he responded back:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am coming over first thing tomorrow morning. If you mean am I coming home,there are still a lot of things I want to discuss. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So how do I take that one?? He doesn't sound pitiful like he did yesterday but kinda smartelechy (sp?)

Does it sound like he is still considering it but wants to iron things out first (which is a good thing?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong>getting a little worried here, not for sure what to expect from conversation tomorrow. He emailed me this morning and said he would come tomorrow. I replied back and asked when he was coming and he responded back:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am coming over first thing tomorrow morning. If you mean am I coming home,there are still a lot of things I want to discuss. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So how do I take that one?? He doesn't sound pitiful like he did yesterday but kinda smartelechy (sp?)

Does it sound like he is still considering it but wants to iron things out first (which is a good thing?)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think is sounds EXACTLY like that. Good luck! stay calm, meditate, relax...

SC is right. Stay calm. The only thing I can add is, don't let him dictate the terms of his return home (if that is what discussion is about). Don't let him assume that this is his decision to make. At this point you have the right to be the one who sets most of the terms. Don't loose sight of that. Don't let him use you as his personal doormat. It may be a hard thing to do, but you must for your own well-being and self-respect.

Going crazy -- I just recently had two conversations with my WH that I never thought I could live through, but I did. We have been separated for almost 8 months and the A lasted 18 months. The A ended by OW in late April/early May.

Essentially these conversations were about how much he missed OW and how she made him feel. I was able to stay calm and not lovebust (by the grace of God I held my tongue) and I actually felt sorry for him. He cannot see what this has done to him. He cannot see the illusion that was the affair. He is in withdrawal. Very likely your WH is in withdrawal also. Do not expect much.

In June, my WH said he wanted to move home right after it sunk in that he was not going to have the relationship with the OW anymore. Two weeks later he did not want to move home. I got my hopes up too high in June. I told him that moving home and working on our M meant him going to IC and us going to MC and him figuring out a way to not work with the OW.

I am more realistic now. He could commit to none of these things. We have, however, been able to calmly discuss things and I am his friend. He is still not "in love" with me, but our relationship is much better than it was while the A was going on. Take things slowly. Don't expect too much too soon and maybe just maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

You can be calm. You can be patient and you can lovingly state your conditions for working on your marriage if he indicates he really wants to do this. Even if he says he misses OW or is still in love with her you can tell him "I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain and it's difficult for me to hear, but thank you for being honest"

Best of luck, patience and strength tomorrow.

GC,good luck tomorrow..stay strong, try not to react to whatever he has to say, remember " I am sorry that you feel that way". If he wants to return it must be on your terms, don't feel obligated to give an immediate answer.. I know you will do fine..
Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>I think is sounds EXACTLY like that. Good luck! stay calm, meditate, relax...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Spacecase!! Easier said than done, right!! I hope he still has interest in coming home.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>don't let him dictate the terms of his return home</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If the discussion does get to that point, where we start discussing terms, my first terms that will need to be met is NC with OW and MC. I want him to write a NC letter to her also, its probably going to make him angry because he says he still "cares" for her, but he needs to make a decision on whether or not he will be totally committed to our marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>Going crazy -- I just recently had two conversations with my WH that I never thought I could live through, but I did. We have been separated for almost 8 months and the A lasted 18 months. The A ended by OW in late April/early May.

Essentially these conversations were about how much he missed OW and how she made him feel. I was able to stay calm and not lovebust (by the grace of God I held my tongue) and I actually felt sorry for him. He cannot see what this has done to him. He cannot see the illusion that was the affair. He is in withdrawal. Very likely your WH is in withdrawal also. Do not expect much.

In June, my WH said he wanted to move home right after it sunk in that he was not going to have the relationship with the OW anymore. Two weeks later he did not want to move home. I got my hopes up too high in June. I told him that moving home and working on our M meant him going to IC and us going to MC and him figuring out a way to not work with the OW.

I am more realistic now. He could commit to none of these things. We have, however, been able to calmly discuss things and I am his friend. He is still not "in love" with me, but our relationship is much better than it was while the A was going on. Take things slowly. Don't expect too much too soon and maybe just maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

You can be calm. You can be patient and you can lovingly state your conditions for working on your marriage if he indicates he really wants to do this. Even if he says he misses OW or is still in love with her you can tell him "I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain and it's difficult for me to hear, but thank you for being honest"

Best of luck, patience and strength tomorrow.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unsureheart, I was reading through your posts last night, our hearts are aching together. I am trying my best to focus on the positive in this situation, WH has taken a large step forward in the right direction, and I'm sure that there will be a few steps back, but we just have to keep moving forward. Its the longest roller coaster I have ever been on and it has had way too many loops and turns. I just keep trying to tell myself that a couple of years for an awesome marriage will be worth it.
I also cried when I saw your response to your husband when he asked why you loved him. And you are so right. If I was standing on the outside looking in, I would have told him to get lost right away, you never know what you have until its gone. I did not know how much I loved WH and it has gave me patience (sometimes) and a deep faith in God. Your answer reminded me so much of 1 Corinthians 13:
13:4 Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered, or resentful. 13:6 It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. 13:7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>GC,good luck tomorrow..stay strong, try not to react to whatever he has to say, remember " I am sorry that you feel that way". If he wants to return it must be on your terms, don't feel obligated to give an immediate answer.. I know you will do fine..
Dave</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you so much davepr, how did you do it? How do you deal with the withdrawal?

Hi Going_Crazy,
I have some suggestions for you.

You have gotten many good ones but here's two to think about.

I would not talk where you live, and here's why. If it gets bad, you won't have much of an out with out one or the other doing a big LB. I would choose a netural location like a park or something.

The other - if things get bad, you can just say something like "I can see I am not ready for this talk yet, I have to go before it gets any worse." and leave.

In other words, give yourself an out.

I hope things go well for you. I agree that it is you that must set boundries for him to return. If he has some for you, perhpas you can do them, perhaps not. You don't have to agree to anything he says. Remember that everything has two sides, and you may learn something from what he has to say about you. I suggest you look at it as a chance to learn, and resoulve not to be angry even if he blames you for things.

Be careful, weigh your words. Take a long time to answer if you need to. Don't say things you can't live with just to make him happy.

Go for it,

SS

<small>[ August 16, 2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by still seeking:
<strong>I would not talk where you live, and here's why. If it gets bad, you won't have much of an out with out one or the other doing a big LB. I would choose a netural location like a park or something.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never thought about the neutral location, thats a good idea however we need to do few things around the house.

You go, GC!
Don't be too eager to get him home. He's coming, you don't have to worry about that; make sure he comes willing to meet the conditions YOU need for YOU.
You'll be fine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>Don't be too eager to get him home. He's coming, you don't have to worry about that</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're pretty sure of that huh??