I copied this from the end of my last thread to give you guys an update from my exchange of emails with WH. He called me last night and then sent me an email this morning:

Update:
I hadn't heard from WH since he had sent me the email asking about therapists and our insurance. I was good, only sent him the email back and that was it.

WH just called me at home, when I answered, he said really sweet, "Hey sweetheart", so I replied back, "Hey Sweetheart!". Anyway, he told me he was just calling, checking in, since he hasn't actually "spoken" to me since Saturday. He was telling me about the bad deal about trying to trade his car in, etc. I then asked if my email about the therapists and insurance made since, he said yes, but hasn't had a chance to call yet. He told me that "his head was starting to clear". Hmmm, I really wanted to say, fog go away!!. So I just said, well I'm glad, you're alot stronger than you think. He then told me that he really liked the email I sent him yesterday. He said he's been really busy golfing with his buddy and stuff trying to not "think" about the situation all the time. He then told me, that he admits hit, that he does miss OW, then he went on to say that he missed me the last 18 months while he has been with her, that's why he never pursued the divorce. I thanked him for telling me that. Few other things, here and there, but a very pleasant conversation.

So here's my take on Plan A (a strong Plan A, no chasing, no begging, no pleading, no LBing, improve yourself): Act like a friend to your spouse. This is how most affairs start right? Be a friend and just listen. Don't push your views on them, just listen. Let them know you are there, let them know they can trust you totally with their fragile heart. Now hopefully, if he decides to work this out, we start in good terms, he will know that my boundaries I set are in good intentions for our marriage, not to hurt him.

Does that make sense?? Maybe 3rd time will be a charm this time. His first try was right after D-Day, second try was a year ago. Now here we go again, but I feel like I am in more control right now. I know what my beliefs are and I will stick by them.

He was also saying that he wished he could talk to Dr. Phil to help him straighten his head out, that Dr. Phil would have a hayday with him. He was joking around and saying,yea, we could go on Dr. PHil's show, get free counseling, etc.

I just got an email from him, he actually sent them info. if you got to www.drphil.com there is a link on the front page for stories, one of them being affairs.

he emailed and asked me to do it to, for a double shot at it!!

Is this the dopiness in the fog???

Rec'd another email from WH, just asking what he told them:

He said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not much just a brief synopsis probably enough to get their attention. By the
way I am coming home, probably not until sometime next week though, but I want
you to go to (WH's hometown) with me next Saturday, you can stay at my Grandmother's
while I play golf or with (his friends wife) if she is going to be around, she may be going
to the Lake house though with (friends wife sister) My grandmother wants to see you
though. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I know he hasn't started reading SAA yet, when should I state my conditions, hopefully I will see him this weekend to have "the talk". Do you all think its time to move forward, or is he still "foggy"?

<small>[ August 25, 2002, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

Hi GC, Wow, it does sound like the fog is lifting more and more! Great news! I think it could be time to move forward but very slowly. Definately set your boundaries before he moves back home. IMHO, be prepared to state your conditions but only state them if the conversation leads in that direction. I hope your dreams come true GC! Good luck and keep us posted.
BH

GC; what, if anything did YOU say to him after he said, as if it were HIS decision, "By the
way I am coming home, probably not until sometime next week though..." ???

I think you need to say something like: "That will be wonderful, we need to talk about it before you come, though."

Slow, steady, guide him down the path...no LBs...but you must let him know that there are conditions he must meet to come home.

Do you have that list ready?

I want to follow the "list" in SAA, he's got my book!! I have not responded back to him yet. I am thinking about responding back and letting him know I want to follow the principles of that book. My top ones are:
1. NC letter to OW.
2. Honesty
3. Joint Agreement
4. Counseling w/ Steve
5. Testing for STD's (how do I ask??)
6. Change personal cell phone number
7. Notification if OW tries to contact him

I am thinking about just telling him I would like for him to read SAA and then we can discuss? What do you think??

Question: Why is it that I really don't feel that excited right now?

Could it be that that was my reaction in the past when he said this to me only to get my heart shattered into more pieces?

Is it because I have almost "numbed" myself from heartbreak to protect me?

Is it because I have learned not to expect anything until all actions are carried through?

Is the Love Bank in the red zone?

going crazy,

I don't think I would let him move home that easy. He seems to think that this is *HIS* decision. This is your life too and he doesn't seem to respect that. There has been no relationship building or repair that has taken place. He got tired of the OW [or whatever] and moved out. Is he moving home because he wants YOU or is he coming home because it didn't work out with the OW and he is trying to fill the hole she left?

I want to believe that he left her because he wants YOU, but are assured of that fact? What has he done to prove to you that he is willing to repair the damage he caused?

I am not trying to be a wet blanket here, but it pains me to think what would happen if he moves in for his convenience, rather than for the sake of the marriage and you end hurt worse than before.

Another thing that I have been thinking about. Have you thought of telling him to hold off until [and IF] he is completely over the OW? Do you want to deal with that?

WH has been on the fence for a long time. He has told me many times over the past year that he wanted to come home but was afraid it would not work out.

I don't know if you have read any of my past posts, but he has shown remorse several times and apologized.

No, I don't feel like it is his decision. When I talk to him next, give him my boundaries and what is required on my part to rebuild, and he agrees, than we will start recovery. I won't allow him to move back unless he agrees, if he does not agree to meet these conditions, then I know he is not fully committed to recovery.

He has also asked about different therapists on our insurance plan, and from talking to him last night, he definitely wants to go to therapy. I'm going to try to get him to talk to Steve, since he already has some history on us.

About reconcilation during withdrawal, I have read mixed things on this. In SAA, Harley states that if the husband and wife can be completely alone during this period, taking a trip, etc. that it is good for the relationship. Also, he has been living with one of his friends near his work (which is 2hrs from OW) since he started moving out on 8/3. He stayed at OW's house for a few days while she was in Vegas to take care of pets, but has not been there since.

GC,
I don't think you should just email him a list of "tasks" like that or even "follow the SAA guidelines"

Talk to him, tell him how you have felt, tell him your fears and doubts, tell him it's critical that the OW be out of his life forever, and that you need to make sure that is the case before he comes home. He has to commit to NC himself, write a NC letter with you, and set up rules for what happens if there IS contact.

Disclosure of communications and shut down or access to passwords/cell codes/email, etc. Change cell # if that's important to you. Tell him why this is imprtant, critical to your peace of mind.

Commitment to RH, and POJA. Explain briefly what these are about, and why they exist, how they will benefit both of you. Counseling w/Steve could fall in here also; Steve can help us develop a plan to rebuild our love, be better H and W, resolve our doubts, teach us.

Testing for STDs. I know this is very sensitive, but tell him you are concerned. After all, he's been gone for a long time, and you feel uncomfortable about this. It's not a big deal to do it, it's the impact of your asking him to. So make it as un-threatening as you can. Almost impossible, but try.

Some of these, you need NOW (NC, communications, rules, STDs) the others (RH, POJA, Cing) you need a firm committment to. It's going to be slow going, try to give him some room here...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>I don't think you should just email him a list of "tasks" like that or even "follow the SAA guidelines"
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, Spacecase, I apologize if it came out that way, I think it would be very difficult to put those requests in an email without it looking like an LB!!

I'm going to take your first advice, just tell him that we need to talk before he moves back, these requests should be better in person. I guess the reason I wanted him to read SAA is so he could understand why these things are so important. I have told him all along, that he needs to make a decison between me and OW for good. If he decided that he wanted to divorce me and went through with it, I did not want to be a part of his life (no kids). If he chose me, he would not have any part of OW's life. I have said that firmly many times.

I guess the hard part is doing this without "educating" or "LBing". Now that I think about it, do you think that I should really try to convince him to counsel with Steve before he comes back, that would make sense, Steve could explain things better than I can, and why.

I just sent WH a quick email letting him know that we needed to talk some things through before (and if ) he comes home. havent heard back yet

well, he just emailed back to me asking me what I wanted to talk about!! I don't want to tell him through email, but I kinda want to "hint" at what it is about, without LBing.

Suggestions?

gc,

Maybe you could just say something like: "we have been through quite alot and I want to make sure this is the right thing to do before we make any moves. There are many things we need to discuss and resolve to make this successful. I don't want to rush into something until I am sure it is the right thing to do."

Something to that effect. GC, it sounds like he is under the impression that everything is hunky dory and he can just move back in like nothing has happened here. Does he think that this is all his decision? Am I reading this wrong? There seems to be ALOT going unsaid here.

<small>[ August 23, 2002, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>Does he think that this is all his decision? Am I reading this wrong? There seems to be ALOT going unsaid here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks MelodyLane, for the good advice, I did send back a quick email to that effect, we are most likely talking Saturday morning. (A little background, his new job is an hour from hour house, he has been staying with one of our friends that lives right near his work so he hasn't been coming up to the city during the week).
No, I do feel like it is both our decision, and what I mean by that is that when we have our talk, me setting a few boundaries etc, it will be our decision for him to come back. If he doesn't agree with these things, then I know he's not ready, so I won't just let him come back.
I don't know if you have ready any of my recent posts in the past month, alot has been going on, I distanced myself from him, did not iniate contact, etc, similiar to the Last Resort Technique of Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Remedy, or what Spacecase is doing with Steve's "Pre-Plan B". this seemed to change things within a week. I still kept my distance, he pursued the R talk, I was the one who backed off, I did this for awhile, just acted like, "whatever", didn't tell him I loved him, just acted like a friend when he contacted me. I do feel like it may be for real this time, this will be the 3rd, but I know this time I have more respect for myself and know that he can't just "walk back in". Does that make sense? I know it will never work until boundaries are established, etc.

what is with Saturdays?? WH said he would come over tomorrow morning on his way somewhere. He is planning on getting the rest of his stuff tomorrow morning and he told me he arranged it so she would not be there.

So we will have our talk tomorrow, hopefully more will be discussed than last Saturday!!

GC, good luck on your discussion tomorrow.. remember your boundries, try to discuss these as they are the most important things to you, not following any books, other people's advice, etc, know what you can compromise on and what you can't. I don't want to be negative but it shoulds from this like he thinks he can just walk back into your life, make sure he is ready and you do things under your boundries that you can live with. I know that you stated that you did not do a good job of meeting his ENs before he A, how well of a job did he do at meeting your ENs, what has changed on his end?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Question: Why is it that I really don't feel that excited right now?

Could it be that that was my reaction in the past when he said this to me only to get my heart shattered into more
pieces?

Is it because I have almost "numbed" myself from heartbreak to protect me?

Is it because I have learned not to expect anything until all actions are carried through?

Is the Love Bank in the red zone? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Probably all of the above... remember that you have focused sooo long on getting him back, if he comes back your focus is going to shift, probably to the reality of what has happend, it is tough, but you will get through it.

Take care, stay stong
Dave

GC,

That sounds great! Maybe you could put together a list of talking points you need to discuss with him so that you don't get flustered when he is there? I agree with davepr about not bringing up any books, to just have an open and honest discussion of your feelings and setting boundaries. Are you planning on letting him move right back in or are you going to wait?

Thanks for the advice, davepr and MelodyLane!! I think I am going to journal tonight and help myself get my thoughts together, things that need to happen, etc.

as for actually him living here, it won't be tomorrow definitely, I think this is something that I am going to have to judge by our conversation tomorrow, I was planning on making an appt with Steve today, but forgot they close early!! I am going to make an appt, see if WH would like one as well, I think it would be a good idea for him to talk with Steve before (if) he starts living here again.

Ok, got my Emotional Needs, Love Busters, and Recreational Companionship questionaires printed out and ready to go "just in case!

GC;
I'm sorry I didn't get back here till now, but today was...weird.

Hope you are able to get this before you meet with him.

First, you said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm going to take your first advice, just tell him that we need to talk before he moves back, these requests should be better in person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Definitely. These things are very hard to say without them appearing as demands or LBs, so that is just tough. Things you have to do, really

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess the reason I wanted him to read SAA is so he could understand why these things are so important. I have told him all along, that he needs to make a decison between me and OW for good. If he decided that he wanted to divorce me and went through with it, I did not want to be a part of his life (no kids). If he chose me, he would not have any part of OW's life. I have said that firmly many times. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is fine, especially because HE asked about it and showed interest in SAA. No problem there, but it won't help you fo tomorrow's talk unless he already read it. One thing you COULD do is ask him to read certain sections (Recovery, NC, etc.) and "tell me what you think"...that's kind of a roundabout way to say this without you saying it...

Has he said anything about your "Me or her" talks? Agrees, disagrees, doesn't say? You may want to ask if he agrees, and if he's willing to do some things to assure NC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess the hard part is doing this without "educating" or "LBing". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said, you almost can't. But you can tell him that since you've been separated so long, and these "attempts" to come home have not worked in the past, you want to make sure he comes back when you ar both "really ready" for it. Then he'll ask "what do you mean?" and you can smoothly, as suggestions start delineating the "rules". "Well, the last time you went back to her, so what do you think we can we do to make sure that doesn't happen again?" and he'll say "I don't know", and you can suggest, well, Dr. harley suggests doing ..... and so on down the line. Letting him "participate" in the decision makes it easier to accept Dr Harley's or your suggestions, since he probably won't have many of his own.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now that I think about it, do you think that I should really try to convince him to counsel with Steve before he comes back, that would make sense, Steve could explain things better than I can, and why.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a good idea. tell him that in helping you both prepare for his coming home, you'd like him to speak with Steve, becasue "he can help us plan and do this right. I don't want this to fail again. It's very important to me."

Hope this helps.

Be strong, be brave, be firm...and be loving. You'll do great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />