SC:

Remember when you all came to my aid that week I moved out, and again when I fell apart and moved back. We're here for ya, SC!!!

This is really just the beginning of your W's thinking. She's going to try like heck to get you to take the blame some more. Don't let her. She doesn't know your going to plan B yet, does she? You did make the call to Steve, didn't you?

Take it easy, whatever you do. This frustration of hers is probably really a good sign. She's got nothing to do now but think about what's happened, because you just dug up the posts that her fence is nailed to, and tossed them in the firepit. Unless she's really good at balancing, that fence is going to fall out from under her.

An ice cream sundae might be nice, but why not just put a scoop of vanilla ice cream in a frosty mug, and poor some Guiness Draft over it!? A nice Beer Float, no roots! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And remember: the nice thing about Guiness is that if it gets warm, you can just put butter on it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Spacecase: We love you...and wish we could spare you from this pain....

Sometimes...no words we can offer will make things better...just know we are here for you..for whatever..whenever..

Hugs,

YR

spacecase...

i feel you... be patient (i know easier said than done)... give her time... i think she knows what she wants/needs/feels, she just doesn't know how to say/do/demonstrate it...

she's afraid of you... why?... because of all of the things that she's done to hurt you... she needs to know that you've really forgive her... once she begins to believe she's been forgiven she can then begin to find a way to try and make things better... jmho...

oaktown...

<small>[ August 23, 2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: oaktown ]</small>

SC,
Of course you are mad, who would not be. We start thinking that becuase they want to talk, that they are finally getting it and when we realise nothing has changed we feel so let down.

Plan B is probably the next step. SH will tell you that. And you know what? you are going to do well there just as you have done the rest. Don't let your W do this to you. You are the strong one here. You know what it takes. You are way ahead of her and she is left behing not knowing what to do. No wonder. She does not have our "training". You have been going to school while she was playing hookie.

Give her time by herself without you to provide her with support and she will have to think about what it is like to be ALONE.

SC, you are still my rock and I KNOW you will be OK even if you don't think so right now.

]b]SC[/b], is it you that it is causing all the rain, thunder & lighting in our fair county this afternoon? Please dry up we don't need any more mosquitoes out here, I think I have bought all the Yardgaurd, in R/R area and we are still getting eaten alive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously just thinking about you & hoping to make you laugh.

I'm sorry, but I really was just losing it...

OK, back to the story. So I call Steve. Miraculously, he picks up right on time! (1st time EVER!)
And I tell him about the meeting, and the email. He asked me some questions, clarifications, and then he says that he wants to have a 3-way with my W on our next appointment on Tuesday.

I'm like no, this can't be! Steve, what ARE you talking about? Once again, she agrees to something and then only does about 10%, and you still want to keep this going?!?!!?

He says yes. That's exactly what he wants to do. So I ask him why. And he says that she actually did some positive things, and he thinks we should give it another try, rather than going into Plan B today, which would mean a longer process where he will have to work with her (If she'll do it) to try to get her to a place where she can begin to be able to be honest with me.

And I say, OK, but what exactly did she do that was positive? And he says; She called you, she met with you, she talked to you about a subject she's not wanted to talk about before (The OM), she said she's not sure she loves you the way she should for the first time, the fact that she says she needs time is also good because it indicates that she knows what she has to do, probably accepts it, but just can't bring herself to do it yet. She accuses you of "ending" her relationship with the OM, but she doesn't get angry about it. And he probably said a couple more.

So we argued back and forth a bit, went through it again, I'm like Steve, I can't take this fence-sitting anymore, I can't deal with this, and he's like sure you can, look, we've come a long way, and so on and so forth...and he says, look, all 3 of us will get on the phone at once, and we'll do "Step 1" all over again, with me there as the referee. If we can begin to get her to open up, then we can move forward, if not, we have Plan B. Look the two options we had for today were she either doesn't have the meeting at all, and on the other end of the spectrum, she has the meeting, breaks down completely, accepts everything and we're good to go. She came in somewhere in the middle. Granted, closer to the "doesn't have the meeting side", but still, in the middle. That's good!

Then he says can you handle it? And I say….sure. What about if we get on the phone on Tuesday and she tells us to shove it, can you handle that? And I said…well, she just about told me that today, so what’s the difference?

So that’s the deal. “Last” chance (and I use the term last loosely, since Steve might come up with something else) on Tuesday, and we’ll see what happens…Plan B, no Plan B, I don’t even know where I am right now! You prep for this and that, you are ready for this and that, and things change by the minute it seems…but Steve’s the boss…

Space,

We're all thinking of you...I wish I could think of something witty to say; but that's your job around here. 2long's going to start drinking beer with ice cream in it in your honor. Yuck!! I like beer and ice cream...but together? Guess I could if I held my nose while I did it. That's my boys trick when eating things that don't taste good...we know you're ok; just that darned rollercoaster again. CSue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> W: "I don't know what I want in my life, thse two weeks you've been gone I have just been relaxing for the first time in a long time, I haven't even started to think about what I want. I'm not sure I love you the way I should, and I don't know if we'll ever be able to make it better again. I think you did the right thing in leaving." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Straighten up Space!!!

Dadgumit....Read the darn thing again and again until YOU "get it"....

"I haven't even started to think....I think you..."

Can't you see the contradiction here? She's trying to convince HER.

As to the "right thing in leaving"..Does she make it plain as to if she thinks it was right for you, or right for her? Hell, NO! Geez...that storm that's mentioned on the thread has made it foooogggggggyyy......

How in the [censored] did you even see her with that much fog floating around?

Cool it Spacecase...Breathe...Be thankful that the W can't get to the OM. Walk in my shoes, and watch the videos that I have of my WW and OM together. Count your blessings. She either has lost, or is losing everything she has to have to keep the A alive. YOU have the upper hand here, dude.m Don't waste it.

HCII

Space,

I am sorry things went so bad with your talk today. Have you talked to Steve about it yet?

SC:

"Then he says can you handle it? And I say….sure. What about if we get on the phone on Tuesday and she tells us to shove it, can you handle that?"

You go, SC! ...except, remember this isn't a contest. Look, I know you're frustrated. Heck, so am I. But remeber the stakes, here, too. 20+ yr M. She doesn't want to lose you. She's way f***ed up and hasn't a clue what she wants to do. She'd very likely rather just go on as usual, but is aware now that it's not going to work.

I find it very interesting that the "source" of the plan B approach is recommending continued communication after all you've been through (and seems to be wanting to do that in my sitch as well).

"You prep for this and that, you are ready for this and that, and things change by the minute it seems…but Steve’s the boss…"

I think your prep and your expectations have to be kept in mind here, too. I think you got your expectations up these past weeks, understandably. Understandably because your W SEEMED to be trying to get you to come home (she just really CAN'T do the right thing, even if she knows what that is). But maybe you went a bit too far with the expectations and that's more why you're frustrated right now. DETACH... ...then talk to her and Steve next week, if it happens. I can't believe that he'd recommend you KEEP hanging on if there's no progress evident then.

I'm thinking about you. With all 2brain cells!!

Boy, I just don't know what to say. I do think there is hope. I think your WW is coming out of the fog (but it's mighty thick).

Just remember that to do this as long as you have is an amazing feat in and of itself. You are amazing. Don't give up now.

I'll be thinking of you and 2long as I drink my beer float tonight with my pizza. Actually looking forward to an evening where I don't have to think about my WH and what he is or isn't doing. I'm just plain tired.

If you can, SC, give yourself a night off. You deserve it.

OK, SC,

In the world I play in (research), we constantly ask questions about how nature works. What takes a long time for the young'ns in science to learn is that when you ask Nature a question you get one of two answers:

No!!!

or

Maybe!!!

Now do you understand why we refer to nature as MOTHER NATURE??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You got exactly the answers I thought you would, but as SH pointed out, she called YOU.
Now I noticed one other thing, she wanted you to solve the problems but she didn't like your solutions. Sound about right??? What I suspect SH is driving for is to get HER to start to address the problems and offer solutions. The reality is the easiest part of rebuilding your marriage is sending a NC letter, IF the affair is over. It isn't in her head yet, BUT...

You aren't in plan B yet, but you don't have to see her or instigate any conversations until Tues.

I believe SH is right, this is progress. Do you remember ever watching a Perry Mason show? Not the movies but the 1/2 hours shows? Well, there is Perry grilling this poor schmuck on the stand and someone finally pops up in the gallery and confesses all. In all of this shows he brings the guilty to their knees and they confess all. SC this only happens on TV. You are in a process and your W isn't going to just let go of years of justification and see the "light". It will be gradual and it will be a process.

SH, sounds like a very very adroit counselor. He has to battle your natural inclinations (mine too) to say the heck with it and pack it in. He has to battle her inclination to hide, lie, and confuse the situation, and THEN walk away. It sounds like he is doing a good job in your case.

So hang in there, and let Mother Nature take its course. Those "MAYBE'S" are what us scientists live for. The "NO's" are a pain in the patuut. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You did better than you think.

God Bless,

JL

SC:

And another thing. You're not dealing with the typical WS fog here. Think of the fogs that likely exist on the jovian planets, for example. Take Uranus (chosen at random, because if WS fog comes from ANYWHERE in the solar system, it's Uranus! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ): I've heard tell that the atmosphere gets so dense at depth that carbon gets squoze into diamonds, which rain out. And on Jupiter, Hydrogen is metallic! Think of how thick simple ol' FOG would be on one of those windbag planets! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

You know what becoming a parent taught me? Patience and flexability. Actually...it teaches me that daily. I don't always like it...actually I SELDOM like it, but I have to do it...the boss demands it!! (The 4yr old boss, that is).

I know you want the security and peace that a step A to step Z process gives you, but you're taking a few side roads on this one. You know Steve is an excellent counselor and would never look to stear you wrong...so put some trust in him on this one.

Your wife didn't expect to find herself becoming comfortable and even somewhat liking being alone. She was terrified and looked to throw whatever empty promises she had to your way so as to get you back. That isn't what you wanted!!! THIS IS!! Yea, she feels good...it's sooo normal! And it WILL PASS!! She is heading right in to a mirror lined brick wall of consequences. She's going to see who the biggest problem in her life has been. Will her tone change by next week? Probably not, but she'll also have some time to think about where all this is going to get her...and if nothing else, it will give Steve a rock solid opportunity to give her ONE LAST SHOT that she will not be able to deny down the road. There will be no denying she blew it.

Remember...feelings are just that. You are totally entitled to your frustration, anger, disappointment, resentment, fear....the works. But you also know feelings can and WILL change...so hang in there.

Whew, what a relief!

Space the thread is rescued once again by the wise, and witty ones!! Keep it up guys!! CSue

CSue:

Thanks from the rings around Uranus! At least I know I'm witty! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2Long,

We won't even talk about Uranus having it's magnetic field tipped sideways will we?? Not only is it a 'foggy" planet, it is a little screwed up as planets go. Nice choice.

I like the imagery: a foggy Uranus. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Does this give new meaning to places where the "sun don't shine"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'd better quit, I think SC wants something useful from you and I.

JL

JL:

I agree. And, SC, I don't want you to feel that I'm making light of your sitch. That ain't funny at all. It's just that humor really helped me during that week away. That and all you fine folks on this forum.

You're going to make it through this, SC. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

BB; Thanks so much! Glad you're around. Check your email!

Peppy; Pep, Pepino, Pepita! I'm hangin' (barely, but hangin'!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Orchid; Where's Orchid?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Faith; you're a sweetie, and thanks for the email! LuvYa!

jdmac1; Thanks for the "fine job of educating" her, but I wasn't supposed to! LOL!!!

Jack/WMIW: Good insight, thanks! My interview...well, the ONE I was waiting for fell thru...Big, Big Boss vetoed me...3 years experience and he wanted 5! A$$! Still in running for another post on that same team...hoping! Thanks for asking!

JR: You're thinking like Steve! LOL!!! any little thing is positive! I need to lean to do that!
I suspect you're right...Plan B will be a kicker@

GC; Thanks, I hope she got that "impression"!

YR: Would like to hear more of that book you mentioned, and will look into "When Love Dies".
And thanks for being there!

2L; My friend! Glad to have you around! I know I probably over-expected, but to be truthful, Steve kinda' led me to believe she was very close, and my heart wanted to believe it also...you know. But In my mind, I knew this was the probable outcome. I love her SO much, I can't believe this is happening to her...
She hasn't a clue about Plan B...it's gonna be scary! She'll probably hire a hitman, she'll be so pi$$ed! But she'll get over it! (I hope).
I don't know about Guiness and Ice Cream....must be lab food after you've been cloistered for a few days and that's all that's left!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL!!!
So, I guess infidelity in Uranus and Jupiter would be even tougher to crack with the heavy/solid fog!!! Too funny! Metallic Hydrogen? Sounds like a heavy metal band!!

ILuv! What a surprise! Glad to have you back! Maybe you can interpret the Fogese....

Sing; I think you're right. She does say some "revealing" things! I know there's hope...I know.

H4F; Thanks for the thoughts! I am going to get my favorite BBQ over at Otto's! MAYBE a sundae after (but it usually doesn't fit!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
And I think you're right; she is going to crash, and hard! Too bad it has to go this route.

Oaktown; I hope you're right. Thanks!

Mapleleaf; Sweet as always! I know I'll be OK and get back up, ma cherie! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sing; I've had enough blamed on me to day to also be resoponsible for the weather. LOL!!! Dreadful storm, and I know about the bugs...local Home Depot ran out of everything, W was desperate for me to find her some more! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

CSue; Thanks! Your boys are smart to drink beer & ice cream with thir noses closed! LOL!!!

HCII; Huh? I think she meant the right thing in leaving for her.
And yes, I AM thankful tham OM's not around or easy to get to! Geez!! That's ALL I need now!

Melodylane; Thanks for the thoughts! I did speak with Steve, posted it. He wants ONE more try Tuesday!

USH; I also think there's hope. Enjoy the pizza, I'm having BBQ! (yum!)

JL; I won't even ask why. I'll take your word for it, and lift my spritis with you prediction! Thanks!

Merentha, Twinkles, Commitedandlovingit, MaryJanes; Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Sheesh! didn't think I'd get thru it!
OK, it's time for JOKES!!!! c'mon!

I'm headed to dinner, but I WILL return!
big hug to everyone! Thank you, thank you!!!!