I went home to help my son pack and organize things (we're headed down to Austin back to school tomorrow) and my W received me with a kiss & hug...we'd kind of stayed away from each other the last few times we've seen each other, so I was...ahhhhh...pleasantly surprised.

We chatted a bit, I asked her about some things that I knew were pending in her business, how those were coming, we talked about little house stuff (gutters, plants, ants, mosqiutoes) she showed me some new plants she bought...nothing major.

BUT...I felt...I don't know...different. Different from what I'd been feeling when I'd been there last, when I'd seen her last.

So I headed to my son's room, helped him with his stuff for about an hour, she came in a few times to see what was going on. We were messing around, throwing stuff, I'm laughing at all the college-kid stuff, just relaxed.

When we finished we headed out front to load some things in the truck, and leave them ready for tomorrow...she was out there doing something in the garden...and it hit me...I was feeling good that she'd been so honest and forthright in her email on Friday.

So before I left I went over to her, touched her arm, looked her in the eyes and said "You know, I wanted to tell you something. Your email on Friday. I wanted to tell you that I'm grateful for that." paused a few seconds, thinking, then said "For the first time in a long time I felt you were really open and honest with me, and I want to thank you for that. That made me feel good." she's starting to tear up, ready to cry so I hugged her. She said "That's what I wanted." so I went on "I love you......and I miss you" and gave her a quick kiss. We didn't say anything for a few seconds, just holding each other, she was teary-eyed, and I was getting there, so I said "I wanted to tell you that. I'll see you soon, OK?" she said "OK..." and I turned and left.

WOW ! Lots of interesting ideas here. Very useful thread for me to read and follow.

SC ... your WW's e-mail is chock-full of useful things.

"Regardless of what you might say, what I feel and how I feel is this:"

Have YOU argued with her in the past about her feelings as if you were going to change her feelings with your intelligently presented facts? Stop it.

"I would love to have the many things I've never had, and that I may never be able to have."

I could be wrong here ... but I don't think she's talking about material *things* ... but a soulful love/sexual connection and deep intimacy type of *thing*. Passion perhaps? Total surrender maybe?

"This makes me feel like I didn't mean much to you before."

Gotta hand this one to her SC .... if she hadn't slapped you awake with an A .... would YOU have been content to maintain the *room mate and co-parenting* status quo of your former M? I think, if you are honest about it SC, you would see, that in your former M ... your needs were more fully satsified ... while hers were chronically put aside.

"Generally whatever I do is not good, or is not good enough for your standards."

SC .... the NUMBER ONE RERASON Mr. Pepper was vulnerable to an affair ---> I rarely gave him the impression that I was highly satsified with his efforts .... much, but not all of the time. I did not admire Mr. Pepper in any real meaningful way..... so he connected to someone who did admire him. You are not responsible for your wife's self-esteem ... however, her need for admiration and appreciation may have been starved by the dynamics of your former M.

"You ask me why I don't talk, why I don't share."

She is pretty sure that whatever she shares will not be *right* with you. Sooooo .... what's the damn point of sharing? She's a pretty sensitive person ... and, she mentioned she grew up within a critical home environment... which is the genesis of her sensitivity and her inability to push aside negative remarks too easily. If you speak to her like a parent ... you are going to meet with serious resistence! Do not parent - advise her. Respect her adult status and her individual decision-making abilities.

"My feeling that I was being watched and my every move scrutinized all the time."

Imagine feeling that your very next mistake was going to be immediately pointed out to you ... and this was constant ... your only respite from criticism would be privacy and going *underground* with your decisions, unless you wanted more criticism! A catch 22 is revealed here. YOU want her to reveal her private thoughts ... yet she feels you will be critical and judgemental of her private thoughts... so she keeps herself closed ... meanwhile, you experience her closure as stubborness .... or a psychiatric disorder ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

"I am still full of bad stuff inside! That is my reality."

Bad stuff .... hurts.
Bad stuff .... festers.
Bad stuff .... fogs the mind.

~~~~~~

SC ..... do you think could you *really hear* her bad stuff ....and not react?

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

PS .... I am slightly hung over .... but doing pretty good after our sleepover bash! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep;
In some things you are correct, and I am the first to admit them. In fact HAVE done so repeatedly since this started. BUT in others you are not correct or don't have all the story, so in my partial defense...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>WOW ! Lots of interesting ideas here. Very useful thread for me to read and follow.

SC ... your WW's e-mail is chock-full of useful things.

"Regardless of what you might say, what I feel and how I feel is this:"

Have YOU argued with her in the past about her feelings as if you were going to change her feelings with your intelligently presented facts? Stop it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I stopped doing this a long time ago. And if she still feels that way it is because she persists in throwing all the S--t at me every time we talk, but cannot/will not answer what she wants, or whether those things made having the A OK.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"I would love to have the many things I've never had, and that I may never be able to have."

I could be wrong here ... but I don't think she's talking about material *things* ... but a soulful love/sexual connection and deep intimacy type of *thing*. Passion perhaps? Total surrender maybe?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think she refers to both, but more to the emoptional/sexual/passionate connection. Do you suppose that her not having it is ALL my fault?
I don't think so.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"This makes me feel like I didn't mean much to you before."

Gotta hand this one to her SC .... if she hadn't slapped you awake with an A .... would YOU have been content to maintain the *room mate and co-parenting* status quo of your former M? I think, if you are honest about it SC, you would see, that in your former M ... your needs were more fully satsified ... while hers were chronically put aside.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What? Do you remember our ENQs? That is NOT the case. Just becasue I didn't answer all her stuff with my side of it in my email doesn't mean there is not another side to this story. You're being unfair.
We are both guilty of this.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"Generally whatever I do is not good, or is not good enough for your standards."

SC .... the NUMBER ONE RERASON Mr. Pepper was vulnerable to an affair ---> I rarely gave him the impression that I was highly satsified with his efforts .... much, but not all of the time. I did not admire Mr. Pepper in any real meaningful way..... so he connected to someone who did admire him. You are not responsible for your wife's self-esteem ... however, her need for admiration and appreciation may have been starved by the dynamics of your former M.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Guilty.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"You ask me why I don't talk, why I don't share."

She is pretty sure that whatever she shares will not be *right* with you. Sooooo .... what's the damn point of sharing? She's a pretty sensitive person ... and, she mentioned she grew up within a critical home environment... which is the genesis of her sensitivity and her inability to push aside negative remarks too easily. If you speak to her like a parent ... you are going to meet with serious resistence! Do not parent - advise her. Respect her adult status and her individual decision-making abilities.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Guilty. I am only now realizing that this was happening and why. Primarily as a result of the "real issue or Affair Protection mechanism" thread.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"My feeling that I was being watched and my every move scrutinized all the time."

Imagine feeling that your very next mistake was going to be immediately pointed out to you ... and this was constant ... your only respite from criticism would be privacy and going *underground* with your decisions, unless you wanted more criticism! A catch 22 is revealed here. YOU want her to reveal her private thoughts ... yet she feels you will be critical and judgemental of her private thoughts... so she keeps herself closed ... meanwhile, you experience her closure as stubborness .... or a psychiatric disorder ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're over-reacting Pep! This ONLY refers to the scrutiny she was subjected to after the affair came to be known and I started snooping and prying because of the lies. I NEVER scrutinized anything in her life before that. Wish I had!!!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"I am still full of bad stuff inside! That is my reality."

Bad stuff .... hurts.
Bad stuff .... festers.
Bad stuff .... fogs the mind.

SC ..... do you think could you *really hear* her bad stuff ....and not react?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't react. I have in the past, but I didn't during our latest several conversations, or in my response to her email.

Give me a break here, Pep! I know I've made many mistakes, I have done my damndest to find out what those are and to try to accept, understand, and correct them under very, very trying circumstances. Without the benefit of MY hurts and needs having been heard much. Holding them in for later, hoping to get to a place where SOME responsibility is accepted by her and some degree of self-analysis and introspectioin takes place.
And not only that, but I have repeatedly expressed my acceptance of these, and my efforts and desire to change them. That she doesn't see any of them has been clearly noted here as a normal WS posture.

She is right on all of these. But there is another side to them, and there are things that have been doen for most of them. She has yet to acknowledge ANY of what I have done for her, then, and now. She is still 100% focused on the bad...and that is NOT the whole story.

((SC))

If I give you my interpretation what your W's e-mail might possibly mean from HER POV, please be assured I am not looking to place blame for the M's breakdown squarely upon you. I do not.

~ If my neighbor thinks I am an [censored] ... it does not make me an [censored] .... it is, however, my neighbor's POV. If I discover my neighbor thinks I'm an [censored] ... I better look at why that is so ... before I try to repair my end of our relationship.~

If your W gives you information about HER POV ... it does not mean she is *right* .... but it is her perceived reality ... the reality from which she is making her decisions. If she says "SC IS a controlling SOB" ... that does not make you a controlling SOB .... but, it gives you insight to her position ... and when you clearly know what her POV actually is ... you can make changes that do not "fit" her perception ... and, with time, her POV will evolve.

Please try to read what I've said as a possible angle of looking at things (A POV from her side) ... and not as a criticism. Please look at your responses to me ... see the words "guilty" and "fault" ..... please tell me why you thought I was pointing fingers finding fault and laying guilt at your feet?

YOU are not "guilty" of anything that I have not already done ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (TRUST me about this! ... I am certain I have out LB'd you on your very worst days of LB'ing) It is NOT possible that your *husband-ing* was any "worse" than my *wife-ing*.

"GUILTY" ..... and so what happends next? Punishment necessary for the guilty?

Relationships are not about guilty vs not-guilty. They are about "seeing" and "being there". If you can figure out your W's POV .... and understand her POV as important ... more about herself than about you ... there is room for both of you in the marriage if neither has to feel guilty.

"Guilty" .... this response has a meaning that involves blaming. I don't see how this helps.

Pepper
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 25, 2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I am sorry Pep!

In reading your interpretation of my W's email, it APPEARED to me that you were saying "no wonder she's done what she's done, look at what SC's done to her!" or something like that.

I see you point about her POV perfectly; I do need to understand it, and I've been trying to, and nothing she said in that email was new to me, except her honesty in saying it up front.

When I say "guilty" what I mean is "I recognize that I do/have done that, and I'm working/will work on correcting it" not about blame.

I'm sorry. In re-reading my responses to you, I over-reacted, got very defensive and probably offended you. Not my intent or desire. I'm sorry Pep! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Space ~

First off, ditto everything Pepper said.

Then Ditto what 2Long.

Now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This I knew, and I have tried to do it. Of course, the conversation has to be very light because she has been so reluctant. And she's being unfair about my not recognizing her contributions to the family...I've always done that...perhaps not enough.

That's I guess part of the frustration that makes me be so "Intense" (as you put it) she focuses on what she feels, accusations, finger-pointing, and in my view some of it undeserved, but never on hearing my POV on that, and worse; NEVER on what she wants us to do about it! It's like she feels the need to keep repeating the same things that she's used all along as justification for the A, and for blaming me for the A. She still does that, you know. Tells Steve it's all my fault that she had an affair!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Space, do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

You are still trying to win this, if not in your actions to her (Bravo on your conversation today) but in your head and with us.

Right and Fair have nothing to do with Reality.

<small>[ August 25, 2002, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</small>

(((SC)))

Guess what !

I am very difficult to offend! I am not afraid of disagreements between us SC, and when we do disagree, I promise I will not feel offended.

I think I told you this before .... I just love your wife. I can "see her" through your loving eyes. I do not see a bad or a crazy person ... but someone who is lost ... She really DOES LOVE Her SC. Only someone who cares about you this much would "put up" with all your imperfections ! LOL! (THAT is a JOKE ... just in case you couldn't tell)

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>Space ~

First off, ditto everything Pepper said.

Then Ditto what 2Long.

Now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Space, do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

You are still trying to win this, if not in your actions to her (Bravo on your conversation today) but in your head and with us.

Right and Fair have nothing to do with Reality.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, BR, I know...Lord knows I know!
It has been SO difficult for me, and I feel I've made great strides in being able to NOT have to be right with her, I really have!

I know I'm not there yet in my mind and in my heart, but I have managed to keep from having to be right with her...that has taken more than you know for me to do...I AM trying...I'm not there yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>(((SC)))

Guess what !

I am very difficult to offend! I am not afraid of disagreements between us SC, and when we do disagree, I promise I will not feel offended.

I think I told you this before .... I just love your wife. I can "see her" through your loving eyes. I do not see a bad or a crazy person ... but someone who is lost ... She really DOES LOVE Her SC. Only someone who cares about you this much would "put up" with all your imperfections ! LOL! (THAT is a JOKE ... just in case you couldn't tell)

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for saying that, Pep.

I know she's not crazy or bad...she's the best! Just lost...and I almost can't stop myself from trying to guide her...you have NO idea what an effort that is for me...no idea.

And I also know I'm not easy...never have been...she HAS put up with a lot; but it's more than I ever imagined.

Dear Space:

I am almost (notice almost) afraid to post Pepper and BR are just too good. I personally liked your W's email. She was finally really telling you her views of the situation. It was really the standard WS stuff we see here all the time. I am not belittling the WS feelings and viewpoints here. They are very valuable and real. More importantly to the BS they are vital to open the door to healing.

A common point in basic MB principles is the movement of spouse from withdrawal to conflict. I see this email as the tiniest step toward true healthy conflict. She is telling you her side. Agree with it or not it is her side. This is good. I also believe this is the start of what SH was telling you was coming. I think protecting her will help the 3 way with SH. Let him be the bad guy.

You did well. I am learning so much by your interchange with these wonderful people.

Baby steps Space and I wish my W would tell me more about how she sees me from her POV (she is a non believer of MB principles, but I love her anyway).

God bless you and your family.

Jack

Thanks Jack, I know that conversation and email, even if they were not what I'd like, were steps forward. Especially the email.

It's important and it's a step forward, so I'll take it! No question.

I am hopeful for the conv w/Steve on Tuesday, especially after our "encounter" today. I haven't felt as good about my W in quite some time.

Realizing what is probably the "reason" for her secrecy, understanding the major role I have played in that, knowing that it is NOT all related to the A, and knowing that it is something I can probably correct, has made me feel a lot more understanding of her, and a lot closer to her.

In fact, I'm thinking that my saying that to her in my response to her email might have prompted the warm reception she gave me today. We just "clicked" today...something important changed...I'm hopeful. I can much more easily deal with this issue, and with her, knowing what I know now, than I ever could have believing it was A-related. No question!

Spacecase,

seems like things went well today when you saw her, looks like a step in the positive direction, I can't wait to see how it goes on Tuesday!!

SC,

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

Your encounter with your W today was wonderful.

Things are looking more and more like I&#8217;m right about guessing you're coming into an awakening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

ULove (unconditional love) breeds ULove. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">'...I felt you were really open and honest with me, and I want to thank you for that. That made me feel good." she's starting to tear up, ready to cry so I hugged her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once you feel Ulove, you can&#8217;t stop yourself from sharing it. As soon as she felt just a second of Ulove from you, she could not stop herself from giving it back to you through her tears.

Before you couldn&#8217;t give it to her because you didn&#8217;t have it either. Now, you&#8217;re beginning to feel it yourself...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...I felt...I don't know...different. Different from what I'd been feeling when I'd been there last, when I'd seen her last.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you see now how so far nothing has changed but your perspective? You're starting to understand what ULove is and feel it for yourself.

And the magical part is you can Ulove her from anywhere...in person, through email, over the phone...in any mode of communication. Plan A, Plan B, whatever&#8230;.the point is not &#8216;where&#8217; you are when you love her, it&#8217;s &#8216;how&#8217; you love her. You determine your boundaries and decide where you need to be to ensure those boundaries are being honored and Ulove her from wherever that is.

As she feels more and more Ulove from you, she will start to trust that she can "reveal" more to you without risk of losing you. With time, she will naturally meet those boundaries of yours and you'll be home in no time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your post on this experience brought a tear to my eye.

Thank you.
E_C

P.S. Loved your subject title change.

by the way, Spacecase, I used to do research for Nasa when I was a co-op back in college for a govt facility, maybe I can pull some strings to get that "fog-sucker" fixed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

SC:

I'm just settling into my hotel room... ...They've got a plaque on the door that says that Steve Grogan of the New England Patriots stayed here. Now, I'm not sports saavy at all, mind you, and I have now idea who Grogan is or why he was here. But I'll bet you a six pack of Ruby Mountain Pale Ale that when he left he was pissed and tired! The wall AC unit is NOISY, I've got it cranked all the way up and I'm sitting here in my boxers and sweating like a pig (and I'm ALONE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

I'm sorry for suggesting that you're trying to educate your W. I remember that YOU were the one to tell ME not to talk about the R with my W, and not that long ago either. I've followed that advice, and with the help of the leveling effect of the prozac (kind of like applying a 3rd-order polynomial fit to a rollercoaster track), I've been able to keep that up long enough to really notice (and cultivate) the posittive things my W says or does around me. We're far from out of the woods, but this is the best plan A I've EVER done, and I have all you folks and MB to thank for that.

Take it from a confirmed closet heterosexual, SC. You're going to work up a customized remote plan A or limited contact plan B that will WORK for both you and your lovely W. She doesn't want a DV any more than you do. You must know that now.

Hang in there, friend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong>by the way, Spacecase, I used to do research for Nasa when I was a co-op back in college for a govt facility, maybe I can pull some strings to get that "fog-sucker" fixed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why didn't you speak up sooner!?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
PLEEEEESE. make the call!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC; I believe you may be right. It's quite an awakening, I'll tell you. And it DOES feel good!

I've been trying to downplay it on myself purposely, just to make sure it's real and not some side-effect of my medication, or temporary insanity, or something. You never know; with friends like 2L, ANYTHING can happen! LOL!!!

FogSucker 1 has to be in low Earth orbit for the Shuttle to be able to retrieve it. Even then, it's probably not cost-effective to fix it. And why bother? When they've got US out here, more than willing to deal with the fog on a case by case basis!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

"They can put a man on the moon, but fix a fogsucking satellite?"

I have really got to get to bed...early wake-up and headed to Austin w/John tomorrow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>SC:

I'm just settling into my hotel room... ...They've got a plaque on the door that says that Steve Grogan of the New England Patriots stayed here. Now, I'm not sports saavy at all, mind you, and I have now idea who Grogan is or why he was here. But I'll bet you a six pack of Ruby Mountain Pale Ale that when he left he was pissed and tired! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're barking up the wrong tree, my friend. MAYBE a bit of baseball lore, but football? NOT A CLUE!!!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The wall AC unit is NOISY, I've got it cranked all the way up and I'm sitting here in my boxers and sweating like a pig (and I'm ALONE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks a lot 2L! THAT was a not the visual I wanted to go to bed with!!! LOL!!!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry for suggesting that you're trying to educate your W. I remember that YOU were the one to tell ME not to talk about the R with my W, and not that long ago either. I've followed that advice, and with the help of the leveling effect of the prozac... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">see below:

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(kind of like applying a 3rd-order polynomial fit to a rollercoaster track)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will not EVEN ask! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..., I've been able to keep that up long enough to really notice (and cultivate) the posittive things my W says or does around me. We're far from out of the woods, but this is the best plan A I've EVER done, and I have all you folks and MB to thank for that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm with you. It really has been quite a while since I had any R talk with my W. Weird, I talk about it so much with Steve, here, it seems like that's all I do!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take it from a confirmed closet heterosexual, SC. You're going to work up a customized remote plan A or limited contact plan B that will WORK for both you and your lovely W. She doesn't want a DV any more than you do. You must know that now.

Hang in there, friend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You just may be right on this one...we'll see what develops and what Master Yoda has to say!

Today, for the first time in a while, I REALLY felt (and believed) that she does still love me...it was a Grrrrrrreat feeling!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2long,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"They can put a man on the moon, but fix a fogsucking satellite?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't remember the last time I laughed so hard.

Thanks for that.
E_C