Seahorse...
Don't mean to butt in...but... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I have followed your post on endings as well as here...
You have gone through a lot...You have changed a lot...
And though when in it, change may be hard to reconize in ourselves...but others can...

Plan B is an action...and it is OK to question it...and it is OK to even switch back to A IF that is truly how you feel...(others here have done just that some with success, some with regrets...)life is not scripted..

Remember some things...your husband continued contact with other women/woman and would not commit to working on marriage...

You did an excellent plan a and truly did focus on you making some huge gains..plan A always is about you...plan A continues with in you even when in plan B...you need to continue on the path of being the type of person that will not TOLERATE continual blatent disrepect from your husband and or others...and that is what he continues to offer...I think you need to focus heavily on the inner you...to find your place of strength to not tolerate such crap...and think long and hard before deciding that disrepectful crap is better than no attention at all....I don't believe it is...I believe you deserve much much more....to just go back 'there'

And I want you to know that I just about jumped a plane to Australia to thump you on the forhead for this statement you made....

"So now my marriage appears to be over, and that I've instigated it."
Boy talk about falling off track and taking blame for everything...the one truism in this is that EACH of us responsible for our actions...and that statement is as false as any I have ever heard...and each time you say or think it I want you to hit yourself right on the forhead really really hard....till you get it...

Seahorse, actions and feelings don't always match...in fact it may be more rare that they do...you are moving through the stages of grief...the anger, the sadness, even the bargaining as noted in your statement above...where you will take all the blame...it's normal, it hurts...but it's here....and it changes minute from minute, day by day...keep moving through it...

Plan A hurt less...but that may not be because it was better...it was comfortable and known...but maybe not better....

think long and hard not about what you want from your husband...but you want for you...what is acceptable...and then decide...

Enjoy your trip...
peace to you
ARK

Wow Ark,

Your response to Seahorse was 'excellent'. I just finished it and could only say: "WOW".

Funny thing though, I remember last year when I felt very similar to Seahorse. In my case, I felt deep within me that the 'easier' way out would be to take all the blame (they were already throwing it at me), then remove myself from the face of this earth so that the blame would be gone. Can you believe it? It is true.

So I can see and understand why some are angry at plan B because it is better to step back and see what we really want and need FROM our spouses (put the giving back on their shoulder) than to take any easy way out.

Now that's an outcome that we CAN learn to work and live with.

Thanks Ark!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Acceptance implies a non-judgemental attitude to events. It suggests an acceptance of what is happening, your own feelings about it, and the feelings of others involved. Acceptance does not mean passively accepting your fate, no matter how wrong or miserable. Acceptance allows you to see what is really going on, and to take direct action when appropriate. The action is guided by clear motivation, rather than tumultuous and reactive feelings.

Deepak Chopra said, "When you are resisting events, you are resisting the entire universe."

If an architect or engineer must have professional acceptance, otherwise, they might deny the physical constraints of the project ... Imagine an engineer or architect saying, "I do not accept the size and location of your lot. It's just to small and I don't like it ! I'm going to design your house for a bigger, different lot."

We are all architects and engineers of our marriages and other relationships. Our building plans will not succeed unless we accept what we're starting with.

There are people who smile through life's storms ..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And ...

There are people who storm through life's smiles ..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

These are the attributes I admire in those smiling through life's storms:

Acceptance
Gratitude
Sense of meaning and purpose
A spiritual anchor
Humor
Warmth
Compassion

I cannot accept our son has an incurable illness .... and I struggle continuously. OR ... I accept that our son has a mental disorder ... and suddenly I become a gifted problem-solver. I have to accept the reality before I can become a positive force in his life.

We can accept reality with an attitude of optimism .... or we can "resist the entire universe".

Great post (((BR))). Really great!

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Dear Ark, thank you for your reply. It made me cry. I wrote out a reply and then decided not to put it here but on my own thread in JFO.

Pepperband
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are people who storm through life's smiles .....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is me right now. Very angry and pissed off. I have fought this for months and mostly delayed it. But it is how I feel. I can try to deny it, but it won't go away. I can pretend to everyone that I'm a 'happy little vegemite' (this is an Aussie-ism) but it will still be festering away inside. I don't feel like this all the time, and I'm sure I could put it back where it came from deep inside of me, but eventually it will come out and it has to come out before I can move passed it. And I intend to move passed it.

If there is one thing my mother taught me it was that if you deny feelings and bottle them up they will come out one way or the other - some people are *****y and noone knows why - least of all themselves, others have heartaches or other physical symptoms, but bottled up emotions come out one way or another. I would love to be optimistic 100% of the time, but that's not my reality. If it is for you, I admire you, tell me how you do it.

I just cannot see how you can reach acceptance of a negative situation without turmoil of some sort, even postitive situations can bring turmoil.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We can accept reality with an attitude of optimism .... or we can "resist the entire universe". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This seems to me a very black and white statement.

If we accept parts of our lives, but struggle with others are you saying we are resisting the entire universe?

I can see that this situation had to happen. I am hoping it will improve my and my husbands life (preferably together), but I have trouble accepting elements of this situation. I'm not 'there' yet.

I believe all these qualities we talk about whether they be acceptance, or letting go or forgiveness are things you work towards, you can't just 'be there'. How you get there may have to do with choice, attitude, education, upbringing, past experiences, age, genetics and personality, but for each of us it is unique and the right way.

Myself, I sometimes get impatient when someone dosen't 'get it' often they get out all the other stuff first, then they get it in their own time.

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

Dear Seahorse

Or, is that Vegemite? LOL! I was a PAA stewardess in the 1970's and flew down under many, many times a year. My cousin lived in Sidney ((still does)) ... and he introduced me to vegemite. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> What perfectly AWFUL goo-in-a-tube ! .... It always reminded me of an *I LOVE LUCY* episode where she tries to sell *Vitameatavegamin* and discovers it's got a large alcohol content! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I agree .... optimism 100% of the time is insanity ... so is pesimism 100% of the time.

"If we accept parts of our lives, but struggle with others are you saying we resist the entire universe?" .... NO, I'm not saying anything of the sort. Acceptance does NOT eliminate your struggle with your problems / life ... it means you struggle with what IS REAL... Sometimes we struggle because we don't let go of our fantasy, our wishful thinking, our assumptions that our feelings equal reality.

Last night I watched a TV show on TLC (The learning channel ... not sure if you have that channel). The show was about cojoined (Siamese) twins. These sisters joined at the head share 30% of their brains with each other. One of the twins has spina bifida on top of that! Little useless legs that make her about 4 feet shorter than her sister and unable to walk. The tall twin places her sister in a wheeled cart and off they go ... to do their shopping! The one sister was saying how angry she gets when people say to her that "It must be soooo hard to live like this." She said , "No, it's not hard. It is our life, and until we say it's hard, it's not hard." I was blown away by her acceptance. Sure, she would have never been chosen to "be stuck to each other" (their words) ... but, as long as they were, they might as well make the best choices they could.

THAT is acceptance. it doesn't mean they don't struggle ... it means they struggle and let go of the resentment ... which creates internal ugliness.

Being angry is OK. Just make sure that being joyful is also OK for you.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes we struggle because we don't let go of our fantasy, our wishful thinking, our assumptions that our feelings equal reality. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But in this situation, I don't know what reality is. H is giving indications both ways. The only things I know for real is that 1. We are separated and 2. Our marriage is in serious trouble. Anything else I am just guessing and that gets me into awful trouble as my mind is quite fond of escalating things way out of proportion.

If my H said to me our marriage is over I would be devastated, but I'd know where we stand. To this date, he hasn't said that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What perfectly AWFUL goo-in-a-tube ! .... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Vegemite is yummy and is full of B vitamins "puts a rose in every cheek" as they say. Its the stuff this nation grew up on, that and Tim Tams, yum! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Dear Seahorse .....

What would make Seahorse happy right now? (Seahorse chooses something that is within her ability to make happen ... right now.)

What would make Seahorse happy in 5 years? (Seahorse chooses something she can make efforts toward, realizing her efforts may or may not turn out exactly as planned.)

That is acceptance of reality.

If you answer something like this ... "I can be happy if my H makes up his mind and gets off the fence." ..... that is not accepting reality .... because you are choosing something you cannot accomplish with your efforts.

So, start where you are Seahorse .... with baby steps , make efforts to building yourself a meaningful and rewarding life .... irregardless of the limbo-world your H chooses .... you can choose any life you wish. You cannot choose his.

If you close your eyes and visualize yourself in 10 years ... what do you see?

Pepperveggie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

WHOA

Hi everyone the information here is so powerful, I was thinking you all must be therapist.

I normally post on P/C. I was referred here to read one of Bramblerose post on detach with love
I'm right were I need to be at this momemt.

I have to go for now but I'll be back.
by any chance if you all have chance feel free to read my post.

Absolutely agree with all that say acceptance is not the same as being a doormat. It means realizing that something painful has happened and you can't change that. Acceptance is your way of getting better.
Can you set boundaries so you never have to accept that behavior again? YES! That's what a marriage or relationship is all about.
I find it amazing that we can accept so much about our children -- the product of a relationship we placed value in -- but we can't accept disruptive or inappropriate behavior from our spouses. Then, we turn around in the same breath and say "Hey honey, cut me some slack. What I did was bad, but let's get over it because I'm all better now."
I'm coming from a personal perspective, but I fall back on the basic tenant of the MB pages: A spouse wanders because we are not satisfying emotional needs. Why we're not satisfying those needs and what needs we have to satisfy is the goal of the learning process. Maybe they didn't speak up. Maybe we didn't let them.
But, we -- this is the generic "we". Some people realize their role in the situations -- are first to leap up on our pedastals and say "How could you do this to me!" The reality is, their affairs were their way of saying "How could you do this to me?"
If you want this person back in your life, and you want to make the marriage strong, I think we have to realize that both parties have a lot of acceptance to go through. Both parties have to forgive. Remember, at least 50 percent of the WS's out there aren't saying the A was a mistake. It was a relief valve, a place to go for satisfaction of needs when we weren't providing it.
Acceptance will give us peace. How we get to that point is key. I still haven't figured that out.

~^~

Bumping,

Hope this old thread can help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

bump

There is a wealth of wonderful information here. I have learned much from reading it.

For instance, I never really understood Plan A. I just kind of disregarded it because I never had to use Plans A or B.

I also see what you mean by "acceptance". Presented as simply accepting a situation and reliquinshing control over another person and focusing on the things you CAN change makes a ton of sense.

It seems that by not really accepting it, one is assuming that they still have some measure of control over the other person.

Thanks for this, BrambleRose. This has been quite helpful for me.

I think maybe I get it. Maybe.

ETA: You were right. I was angry. I was angry because I was trying to control Patriot and I couldn't. This has been very helpful. Thank you.