BTW just a quick side note. My anniversary is tomorrow, what do I do? We were going to go out to dinner, then this weekend happened. I asked him if he still wanted to go last night and he said yes. So how do I act? This is so hard and akward. Do we acknowledge the day? Do we ignore it? It is looming over me like an executioners axe. I don't know how to react?
Anyone know? Please tell me.
Thanks,
Layli

According to the MB books Recreational Companionship is his second highest need. When he is not having sex, he is doing the activity that gives him the most pleasure next. If you ask him to leave it and attend to your needs, (i.e. talking to you which is your second highest need) it is not plan A. You will sound demanding, controlling and nagging. I would have empathised with the death of his friend, asked about how it happenned, comforted him and hugged him. Then he would have shared a lot of intimate moments with you. If you self righteously demand things from him, he will loose love for you and love her more.

<small>[ August 27, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

OK first of all, we had the discussion about his friend WHEN it happened. Secondly, I try to play as often as I can on that game with him and was playing with him when the call took place. I have done a stellar plan A. I have met his needs and NO I don't nag at him to get off the game. He plays everyday as plan A isn't about how much he plays the game. I have stepped forward and done everything I can to be his recreational companion. Hard to do when he spends 60-80 hours per week on the game. In the history of our marriage, I have NOT had a problem with the game as long as there is room for other things in his life. Job, family, me. According to Steve Harley WH's time spent on the game is at addiction proportions. Steve feels it is a major destructive force in our marriage. I don't care if he plays in moderation and I am sorry but I WAS there for him in dealing with his friends death and I still believe he uses things like that as an excuse to not work on things or talk to me.
Layli

PS I wasn't selfishly making demands. We were in our discussion when this subject popped up and again I was there when it first happened to lend support. Again, don't make assumtions until you know the whole story and please don't post anymore to my thread.
Layli

relate,

Where are you reading that recreational companionship should include continued contact and emotional support of the other woman? And at the expense of a huge LB against your loving spouse?

Just curious, specific page numbers would be helpful to dummies like me!

BW

Layli - Just wanted you to know that I'm sorry for the things you are having to endure. My heart goes out to you.

Relate - I gotta ask - are you a BS or a WS? I am a WS myself..and I can see through the bullsh*t smoke screen (sorry for the foul word, Layli) that her H gave her with the whole 'worried about my friend who was almost raped and died' line...c'mon here...I am very familiar with the mindset of many 'gamers'...and while there are tons of fine people who enjoy gaming..many gamers have a 'crisis of the day/minute thing going on'....

He was being asked a question that he wanted to wiggle out of having to answer..and he was trying to deflect attention off the fact that he had just been speaking with the OW. He didn't want to address how he had just hurt Layli. It is an age old tactic of almost all WS's...divert..delay..confuse..avoid and conquer. Layli had already heard his fears when he shared them before..and she had already empathized with him. He was bringing up the issue once again to justify his ignoring and hurting her...and defending his right to carry on a conversation with yet ANOTHER member of the opposite sex. He is the one being completely selfish. Plan A is not about encouraging selfish abusive hurtful behavior...or..if it is...I want nothing to do with it!! Layli - am I interpreting your post correctly in understanding that your H told the OW he loved her while he had her on the phone??

Plan A is NOT about being a doormat. If you allow your WS to run wild all over you...they will NEVER EVER stop their behavior. They will have no respect for you whatsoever. Layli was not unkind or cruel...or unjustified in what she was asking.

Also, as far as her H's needs go....from what I remember of reading His Needs/Her Needs...the top 5 for men are what Harley says most men usually end up stating. These are NOT set in stone and WILL vary from man to man. Also, the order in which they are ranked will vary from person to person. Unless you are Layli's H, how do you know what his 2nd most important need is for sure?

If her H was THAT torn up about things..why did he keep playing the game and ignoring her??? If he wanted/needed that hug so badly...why were his arms so firmly entrenched on the keyboard?? Maybe his arms were just weary from holding up the phone to his ear while he continued his A with the OW in front of his wife?

I'm sorry...I'm so mad...I could just...um...scream??

Layli, honey....hugs to you...if I misinterpreted anything...I apologize profusely...but I cannot bear to stand by and watch a WS's behavior defended when it is completely undeserved. If I thought you had LB'd....or provoked..or whatever...I pray that I could/would help point it out to you in a loving manner...if I don't...you have my permission to smack me!!

Hugs,

YR

LOL!! *hands YR the ventilation bag* Breath!!

I hear ya... I'm a little curious WTF Relate is getting at too. Soooo...Layli is supposed to continue to give him sympathy and "understanding" while he blatently flaunts his relationships in front of her. Yea...I can see where that would help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Get out soon Layli...leave his head spinning. It's time he grows up and stops feeling sorry for himself and where he's at in life. He has choices he can make.

Oh...and you are SO RIGHT ON about the individual needs thing YR. My H and I are hardly "typical" according to the HNHN book. I fit the male profile closer, and he fits the female one more...but we aren't identical to either. And even if recreational companionship IS a top need...I don't think there are many 27 year old MARRIED MEN who get the "priveledge" of doing that all day every day. He's addicted...it's easy to do...and it isn't OK!

Okay, where do i begin? My name is Lance (Layli's best friend, it's wierd to call her Layli... heh). I want to first thank all of you for your kind words and strength of encouragement you have shown Layli. She is an incredible woman who has been given the wrong end of the poop stick lately, but she is hanging in there, trying her best to deal with the circumstances pertaining to her WS. On that note, let me tell me two cents so you guys have a perspective of a day in the life of Lance.
1- Layli and I have been friends since APril of 1997. I know it doesnt seem that long, but well, there it is. She has taught me to be tough. not take crap from anyone (still working on it.) Her hubby and I were close. He was one of my best friends also. for the last 2 years i have seen him act like a completely different person. he has a short temper (but not violent about it). he gets snippy with snippy comments that he thinks does not hurt, well tell you what mr man. they do. Anytime she asks him to do anything he gets the monotone "i will". five hours later the cats havnet been fed, the laundry hasnt been hung, or he hasnt eaten. And you are asking well why could Layli do that? If he wasnt glued to the computer for 15 hours a day, maybe he would be more active and help around. Layli cleans, washes dusts and keeps the little place clean at all times. So yeah, she has every right to ask for a little assistance in the house cleaning. he cant be bothered to help his parents with anything, let alone while his father, who has heart problems, was rre-roofing the house, or building the new deck.

Granted he is only 25, anyone with any sense of reality would realise, hey, lets help out. let's put my wife first and let's be a norma l husband. as for the OW, holy crap. I don;t want ot go there, cuz me gets angry.

I have, since all this turmoil kept my distance from him. i don't know if my relationship with layli has damaged any part of thier marriage, but when your friend comes up to you and tells you her spouse is turning into a compter, having an online affiar, kissed the skank while Layli and him PAID for her to come down to utah (i put blame on that one on both of them, she should have told him NO WAY, and he should not have even asked.). But sometimes, i don't know what to tell her, I run out of words.. (I am a better listener... ). But she used to be a different person, and he just ruined some of her. not like she is a broken tea cup or anything, but you can tell she is stressed out, hurt and affriad. and then you RELATE, telling her to put his needs first... COME ONE... READ BEFORE YOU POST...

she has done nothing but put him first... ALWAYS. I Called her insane... telling her she needs to plan B, and i thank god she has seen the light. and I know you all think that i am evil for saying that, but you dont see her on a daily basis... hurt, angry, confused, happy, miserable... just a myriad of emotions... that isnt good for someone to be that high and low on a daily basis... in my opinion... i just want her to be happy.

I know I should have posted more about it, but i feel like I have taken up the whole page... so till I post again...
chow
Lance

PS let me know what you think.

Hope4Future: hehe..thanks for the ventilation bag...I think my blood pressure may be back in the range of somewhat normal by now...pant pant.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Totally with you on the needs thing...it's funny, I'm the same way as you...some of my needs are closer to the man's (except for Financial support...) and some of his are more like the 'woman's'.

Posted by Lance:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she has done nothing but put him first... ALWAYS. I Called her insane... telling her she needs to plan B, and i thank god she has seen the light. and I know you all think that i am evil for saying that, but you dont see her on a daily basis </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lance, I don't think you are evil at all! I think you are a loving and concerned friend. Not many friends actually go through the effort to actively come here and post in support of their friend!! We could all use a friend like you!!

Regards!

YR

BW, H4F,YR and Lance. Thanks for your wonderful support. I don't know what relate was thinking but I was a little weirded out that I had to justify things on my own thread.
Anyhow, it is 12:15am. Officially my anniversary. Boy how much can change in 4 years. My migraine has dinally passed, thanks to a wonderful shot my dr gave me. I guess we are going to dinner tomorrow. Still don't know quite what to say or do. I guess just say happy anniversary to him even though it isn't? So much for radical honesty. Any suggestions would be great. I am also starting to welcome the idea of plan b. I think while it is going to hurt like hell, I might actually feel better.
Let me know on the anniversary thing. Thanks for all your support.
Hugs,
Layli

PS to yellow rose, your comments were wonderful and I was glad you guys were as pissed as I was at the calling me selfish and demanding comments.
I do think I handled it as well as I could and I too believe it was a line of s@#t from WH to get out of dicussion. Standard way of how things go with the 2 of us.
So I thought everything you said was great and by reading your post, don't call the OM. Be tough.
Hugs,
Layli

Layli,

I've only been reading here since the first of the year, but this is the first time I've seen a post from the betrayed spouse's best friend. And Lance, you are a true friend.

YellowRose, I'm assuming you don't know Layli at all, but I want to thank you for standing up for her in such a big way!

Stand tall, Layli...do what's right and don't lose hope!

BW

Layli

Just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you on your anniversary. You were the first person to post a reply to me and show support, so here's a little support back.

I think Relate must have dropped off from another planet!!!!! As I said on another post, I cannot believe/understand/comprehend/accept in any shape form or fashion (this comes from a WS), how WS when their BS finds out can stay in touch with OP and think that this is and should be acceptable and normal. I know I have done some terrible things, but I just would not, could not, do any more do my poor hurt H. It is truly beyond me.... Maybe not quite as mad as I think I am....

Take care Layli, be strong and hope the anniversary thing goes OK for you - will be hard I'm sure.

Layli,

Wow, talk about being supported. It is awesome to see the support you are getting. As for the anniversary, I think that anyway you look at it you need to celebrate. You have made it 4 years. Through thick and thin. I know it may be difficult but noone ever said marraige was easy. I was going through a rough time when my wife advised me she was developing feelings for another man. Wow, talk about a heart breaker. Nothing ever developed because my doctor told me I wasn't doing my job. Marraige is a full time job and you have been doing it for 4 years. Congrats to you. If plan B is your only hope, then so be it, you still lasted 4 years. Hope you and your WS enjoy this day with each other. It is one thing you have that is yours and only yours. Not the OW's.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Howdy Layli and friend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What to do what to do about the anniversary. Hmm... I think I'd plan on going out somewhere and have some fun. If he can leave his computer long enough to go along, fine...if not, he's sittin at home in shallowville.

Ok, I'm going to throw a tiny little spin on things here...and I'm not saying I'm right...it's just an observation I made that may or may not be something to look at. And my disclamer is that it's something that was an issue in my case, so it's something I may pick up on even when it's not there. Hey, that's almost a riddle!!

Anyway, you thanked me for "coming to your rescue". And then YR and Lance and everyone else came to your defense too. Hey, Relate was far off and kind of kicking you when you're down. Friends don't let friends take that kind of abuse. But it made me wonder how things are in your real life. What Lance described was me to a T in our pre-tornado days. By all appearances I was the "good little wife" and hubby slept on the couch. It helped feed my "I'm the victim" mentality and the idea that I needed rescued. In fact, the one I needed rescued from was myself. I needed to learn to stand up for MYSELF and not do things that I didn't want to do and then turn around and be resentful for doing them anyway.

Layli, you've got a WS on your hands and worse yet you're living with his parents. That's an icky situation you have there and anyone would be hurt/angry/sad at the way he's treating you. But get strong, and stand up for yourself. You both have choices....own your own decisions. You know what I mean? We're here to support you...but we don't need to rescue you...cause you're a fully capable, strong and able woman!! ROAR!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lance, I know you're disgusted with your friend right now. He's even younger than I was remembering..for some reason I thought he was 27. I guess my new assistant is 27 and going through a bunch of the same crap and for some reason I think of him when talking about MrLayli. Anyway...he sounds depressed. I mean, I don't feel sorry for him in that he's a large reason for where he is in life right now...but I do still feel for him. I know I keep harping that he has choices and that he's a man and not acting accordingly...and that IS TRUE...but I also remember being a grown woman with a child and hurting so badly I just wanted to run away or stay in bed and never get out. I didn't wnat to make a choice, I didn't want to change the course of my life...I just wanted the pain to go away. Add to that he's addicted. For me it was the OM, for him it's an OW and an entire fantasy game life and community. In that sense he's very typically a WS. And you mentioned his attitude change...also typical. So while Layli definatly needs your support right now...it probably does feel like "taking sides" to MrLayli and adds to his feelings of resentment, failure and everything else. Try to remember he's still in there...he's just lost right now. My friends lost me for a time...but I'm back...MrLayli might be one day too.

Anyway, I hope I made any sense at all. I'll check back with you this evening. Take care of YOU today and try to find something to celebrate (doesn't have to be with anyone!!).

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

layli,

I have been reading your posts and have been struck at the similarities of your situation and mine. I just wanted you to know there is hope out there. Its been almost four years since my nightmare started and my H and I are back on track. I'm not going to say everything is perfect but its a heck of a lot better than it was four years ago!

Some of the things that have jumped out at me are your H's addiction to EQ. BTDT...my H's affair started on a MUD (which is basically EQ with no graphics). He was trying to escape from all the yucky responsibilities he had to deal with and that fantasy world was a great place to go have his ego stroked and feel like he wasn't a failure. The girl he had the A with was just as addictied to the MUD and had the obligatory sad story to tell about her past so it made him feel like the knight in shining armor.

When I found out about the A I did a Plan A much the way you have been, from what I can read, and it depleted my love bank something chronic. I wish I had dome things differently even tho my marriage is in recovery now. I wish I had done a more tough love approach. I don't know if it would have made a difference but I think I would have felt more respect for myself for not letting myself be walked on. And that's what I fear is happening with you since he feels it is okeydokey to tell the OW that he loves her with you standing right there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Do something fun for your anniversary, like people have suggested. However don't expect much from him...you will very likely get hurt if you do. We had our third anniversary right after he started no contact and the way he was acting broke my heart. It made me feel like why should I bother doing anything special for him. I know it is the wrong approach but that's how I felt and it took a long time for me to get to a point where I wanted to do things for him again.

I hate it for you that you are having to go through this. Like I said, BTDT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Your friend, Lance, sounds like a gem. It is rare that people come here in support of their friends and for that he is to be applauded.

Hang in there...I hope it gets better soon.

VL

BW-Thanks for your reply. Lance is a good friend. He has been with us through it all. I know this is really hard on everyone around us. Makes it even sadder as you sometimes forget hoe many people are affected bt your marriage.

Lisa in London-Thanks so much for your posts. I know how rough things are for you now and it makes me appreciate your support that much more. I really believe it is the fog that is causing WH to do these things. It is hard to believe that the man I married 4 years ago would do this to me.

Lost-You are so right. 4 years is an accomplishment no matter how you look at it. I guess I will just go to dinner with him tonight and remain hopeful that it isn't too akward.

H4F-You know, maybe in the beginning, heck, even a year ago I feed into that whole victim scenario. When WH and I first got together I wouldn't take crap from anyone. So much so that I almost went to the extreme and at time said and did things to hurt WH because I wasn't going to be a doormat. After our first d-day, I decided maybe I had to tone it down a bit. I thought maybe it would make things better if I wasn't such a raging b+&%h all the time. As for the cleaning, I am a total neat freak. (Monica on friends doesn't even come close) I like cleaning so him not helping really didn't bother me. If I wanted to go somewhere and he didn't (which due to the game was almost always) I went alone or went with Lance. No biggie. Except that is supposedly why WH turned to OW. Because I wasn't giving him the attention he needed. The only way I could have kept up with her on game time would have been to play 70-80 hours a week. Actually more because I would have had to catch my characters up to his. Keep in mind, this playing time is no big deal to OW, maybe why she had 3 of her 4 kids taken away from her. I harped about EQ in the beginning, then I let it go. I figured at least he is home playing this instead of out bar hopping and carousing. How foolish was I? Hindsight can be a real kick in the pants. So, I am proceeding with my plans. I haven't heard from Harley's yet in regards to WH's appt. Hope they don't have to move it.

Veteran lurker- I now know I need to do the tough love approach. I really need to talk to Steve. I think for now I will just stay focused on getting out of this environment. Try to stop being a doormat and get on with things.

Thanks again for all your support. I will try to post tonight after our dinner.
Hugs and love to you all,
Layli

Just a humorous tidbit to add. i think Lance had to join up out of deperation to find out what I was talking about. Love busters, love banks, waywards spouses, EN's. Just a thought. Almost like we have our own secret code here.
Layli

hi. it's me again. Um... thanks for thinking I am a gem (i love that). Layli, hope I wasnt stepping over some boundries and stuff... you know I wouldn't do it out of spite or malice. But I thought the guys on here should get a perspective (well... mine... and I am the eternal pessimist... how ironic is that). So, I thank you all for being cool, and supportive.

Is it even okay (like in the rules of this site), for me to post? Granted i am not married, until it gets legailzed.. hehe... sorry. But I have been in a tough spot, but not with a WS. But, thats a whole can of somehting not to be brought up. But I think you are all wonderful special people who deserve the best happiness life can offer. I do hope you all have someone close you can share your thoughts and feelings with. IT helps. (duh Lance, thats why this site was created.) but you know, the whole one on one thing. But I am a huge supporter of this site. I can see so many people struggling with everyday life, and thier marriage to boot... must be overwhelming all the time. But (not to get to God-dy), but pray and God will provide the rest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway... enough babbling out of me... hungry now, so i am going to go...

love ya all (and you to Layli)

Lance