Hi. I've spent over a week raging at my WH since he asked if the kids could go to his company picnic where OW would be. Prior to that, we had a good three weeks (friendly). Now, all the problems are back. He doesn't want to talk to me, isn't calling the kids, etc.
You might ask "How is the raging working for you?"
It's not helping things but being friendly wasn't doing much either.
He spends all his time with OW. However, he still won't acknowledge that she is important to him,etc. His roommate even lies to me about his whereabouts even though I don't ask and rarely call his house (once this week). He says that any information that he tells me I use against him in another fight,etc. and he wishes he could talk to me, wants to be friends (yet has never called me or asked me to do anything outside of kids)
He has completely replaced his old life: girlfriend, new house, new roommate, same vacation locations-different people, new football pool (after being in my family's for 13 yrs). Nothing matters to him. He just goes on...and on.
I have spent the past week really depressesd..the weekend crying and it continues. I know that I need to pick myself up, focus on me, and continue but I haven't been able to.
Our paperwork should be complete this week, the house goes on the market in two weeks and WH keep reiterating how certain he is about his decison.
I think my saddness this past week is about acceptance of the end of things and I need to let go even more. I wish I would have believed him when he left that he was done with the m. Nothing has changed.
Thanks for listening,
Can't Sleep

<small>[ August 27, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: can't sleep ]</small>

Hi. My earlier tyriad (sp) sounds whiney. I need a good kick in the rear-end or someone to say, "Hang it up, he's gone" (which is the consensus of family and off-line friends). I just keep thinking that I can't hurt any worse than I have or that nothing else he does will throw me. But it does. Over and Over. I think I'd feel better if he told me he was loved her and wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. I think I could move on easier. But his "I don't love her, She doesn't mean anything attitude" keeps me wondering, if maybe, there's hope. I guess he is probably just avoiding conflict.
What do you think?
Can't Sleep

can't sleep - you can whine all you want - I know and can feel where you are coming from - No one understands how you can still hang on after everything you have been through - You know you should just let go - if it were that easy you wouldn't be in this pain. I am still hoping for the day when I wake up and say ok - to heck with him I am more important - he is blowing it - he is the one leaving his family and for what - nothing...... We have to learn to just let go - I know I have been trying for so long and yesterday I just made a decision - I do not want to talk to him anymore or see him - I told him he could email me - but I needed to let go - I deserve to be happy and so do you.. Are you on antidepressants because I cried from October until about May when I finally got some they really do help... I have been trying to keep busy doing things that I wouldn't have done before because I was the mom the wife - the one that did everything for everyone else - a wise lady on these boards told me for every bad day you have there are two more good ones around the corner. I still can't sleep at night, get upset, think oh my god what happened??? But I am trying to make myself better.... Cheer up !!! - Did the kids go to the picnic??

Thanks MAW-I hope that wise lady is right. I can use 2 good days in a row. Yes, I am on antidepress. No, my kids are NOT going to that picnic. Let me know how things are going for you. I did the no (just exchanging kids and my mom did most of that) contact thing in July for almost three weeks. I felt better but it created alot of distance. I needed it then.
WH just called and left screaming voice mails that my voice mails are even irritating. Go figure. I can't win.
Cheers to a better afternoon and evening. I am going out for dinner with a friend and my mom is b-sitting. Thank goodness.
Thanks,
Can't Sleep

CS-

<<<<KICK>>>> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> OK, now get off your pity-pot and get back to working on YOU. Your letting your WH's actions control you and that aint a fun place to be. WH does or doesn't do something and you react to it and that reaction causes him to react as well, and so on. Its like dropping a ping-pong ball into a room full of mousetraps. Someone has to stop this chain of events and we know you cant rely on WH to do it, so its up to you.

I have been in the exact same place you are right now. I get the feeling that you are coming to a place of acceptance and that is what is causing you so much turmoil. Maybe not acceptance that the M is over, but acceptance of the fact that WH is just too far gone right now and the 2 of you are not moving in the same direction. You want a marriage and WH wants to be 'just friends'. Its exactly the same way for me, and I have a feeling for a lot of other BS's here. That 'just friends' part is a cop-out to me, a way for the WS to save face and remain as non-committed as possible. But, until they reach that point of wanting to work on the M, there is nothing any of us can do.

So, IMHO, here is my advice to you. Stop all M and R talk again, stop calling WH and his roommate, stop arguing with WH about stuff, STOP STOP STOP! It isn't getting you any closer to your ultimate goal so there is no point in beating this dead horse. Except for kids and money issues, let it all go. Act like you have accepted WH's so-called decision and are moving on without him. Don't be mean or nasty to him, be nice and understanding, be the Plan A poster child. This doesn't mean you are going to be a doormat, it just means that you are accepting the current situation for what it is worth and are moving on. If WH asks to be friends, simply tell him that right now you cant, but maybe some day in the future. Its time to put it all back on WH, don't accept any more of the heartache WH has brought into your life.

It isn't easy to do, but once you have made that conscience decision to remove yourself from WH's garbage, it will feel like the weight of the world has been lifted from your shoulders. No one here asked to be put into this awful situation, but we all have a choice to either rise above it, or sink below it. You did a great Plan A, be proud of that, get back into it so if Plan B is necessary, you will leave WH with the best impression of you possible.

CS- look back at all the wonderful things you have done these last few months, look at the beautiful person you are, see how much stronger you are now than in the beginning. So you had a bad week, so what, we all do, its not the end of the world. Now, stand up, wipe the tears from your eyes, shake your fist (or maybe a certain finger) at WH and the A and shout "I am CS, I am a fighter, I am not going to let his selfish actions control me!"

Hope you have some better days ahead, you deserve it.

OK Can't Sleep that was quite a pep talk from Loverherstill - I am taking his advice also... he is a smart man... Now my husband has said ok to the picking the kids up and not hanging around that I have asked him to do - I need to get some sort of sanity back - I love him but you know what I have a court date in three weeks I have to be realistic we are getting divorced so I need to let him go - it is so hard but I am finally do the Plan B thing - I figure if he doesn't want me then he doesn't deserve any part of me - it will probably kill me but I am going to do it - I am just gonna work on myself - I have been going out with friends and really having a good time - I am glad that you are going out tonite - It is so hard to be basically dumped and live with all of this crap - because we get totally lost in this process of their selfishness - I know they don't think they are but they are basically screwing with our minds that is why we are so confused.... and hurt and distraught - I am sure I could think of a few other words but you get the idea - that is why everyone says you must take care of yourself.... Why is your husband calling you and screaming at you ...????? You know I bet you used to have a nice boring life like me to right??? I just need no more drama - I just want to be normal with a husband and family <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!! And you???

CS-
((((((hugs)))))). I'm glad you posted- I've been wondering how you are doing.
I agree with loveherstill (but maybe not so strongly!) Just stick with Plan A as long as you can- despite the setbacks. Don't pursue with phone calls, etc.
I think your H is getting all of his nees met by you and the OW.
Be strong. We are here for you.

LHS-
Thank you. I needed that and wanted your advice.
How are you? I think your anni. was this month. You sound like you are doing OK.
I'll post in a few days-hopefully to report that I've got it together again. I got back on my treadmill for the first time in 9 days...it's a start. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
-Can't Sleep

Yesterday was supposed to be our anniv. I was at the house playing with the kids and WW says "oh, today is the 26th, happy anniv." I just kinda laughed and said "anniv of what?" And that was it for our 14 year wedding anniversary, pretty much sums up the last year of the M anyway, basically an after thought.

But thats fine, I have accepted where things are and am ok with it. I think the acceptance part is a huge step towards personal recovery. I don't worry about the A or what WW is doing or with who, I don't worry about us and the possibility of us getting back together nor do I even talk about us, our R or the M anymore. I have basically pushed it all aside and am focusing on me and the kids because I know that is where my future lies for now. This doesn't mean I have given up, just not making it a major part of my life anymore.

WW seems to share a lot of the same characteristics as your WH does, must be a common thread amongst WS's. WW too wants to be as uncommitted as possible, wants to only be friends, wants to continue contact with OM (says there is nothing going on between them), only wants to do things on her terms, puts most of the blame for what has happened on me and on and on. I know for a long time I put up with it, hoping that by doing so, things would change, but I finally got to the point where I had to say 'no more, I deserve better than this". And through it all, I did the best Plan A I could possibly do, and am still doing.

I am also moving back into a guest room in the house at the end of Sept when my lease runs out. It will be interesting to see where things go from there, but at least the financial burden will be lifted and I wont have to worry about having enough $$ to live on and I will be able to be a full-time dad again, something my kids desperately need right now. WW seems to be ok with it but I get the feeling that once I am around full time, her attitude will change.

Take care of yourself CS, take your frustrations out on that treadmill! Remember that you are in control here, not WH, not OW, not anyone else.

MAW-Your d is in three weeks? I'm glad you are doing things for yourself. Yes, a quiet family night seems like a hundred years ago. I'd take it anytime. Wish I would have appreciated it then.
PB-HOw are you? Haven't heard from you lately.
LHS-I'm glad your anni is over and you sound like you have your thoughts organized. October should be an interesting month for you.
I didn't call WH this afternoon and I got a horrible call from him this evening before I went out. He was crying and hysterical and said he couldn't take it anymore, my LBing and phone calls, and I couldn't make him feel any worse than he already does, something has to change between us, such as no contact, etc. He mentioned seeing a lawyer about it, he said everyone would be happier if he was dead, he wasn't very happy at all, I can't beat him into the ground anymore , etc. It was awful. I stayed calm and told him that I wouldn't call him at all. All communciation would be through e-mail. I feel terrible-I have been awful this past week but on the other hand, so has he. Hw said he was interested in me but no more because I can't stop yelling at him, etc. I wear him down, etc. He kept saying, You won. You won.
He seemed different tonight. He was really, really down. Do you think three voice mails and four calls during the weekend is enough to cause that reaction? Obviously, I have severely screwed up and will not be contacting him. I don't even want to now. I don't think he can pull himself back from the guilt, etc. I'm afraid he may have just written me off tonight-why don't they ever say when we had a chance? Or is this more headgames so I'll shut-up?
I feel humbled and crappy whatever it is-like I went too far and lost.
Help.
Can't Sleep

Double post-sorry.

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: can't sleep ]</small>

Should I send him an e-mail confirming my promise of no communication or leave well enough alone? I have such a horrible feeling about his call. Could this be the time he decided the he@@ with it? What's your take on it?
-really can't sleep

Can't Sleep - Yikes - my husband has freaked on me also and said that yes he screwed yes it is all his fault and yes he has to live with the guilt - and he cannot even talk about it - doesn't want to talk about never did. I just sent him an email the day before yesterday telling him that I didn't want to talk to him anymore - that he was right he shouldn't have to talk to me we are getting divorced. So I know that he is guilty but how guilty I don't know - I am thinking maybe you should send the email just so you feel better - say I am sorry that you didn't mean to basically rag on him but you are hurt also and he needs to understand your position and you do not want to talk to him only through emails and see where that goes. Sometimes I think that it may be easier for them if we don't talk to them but other times I know it is easier for us if we don't either - so I don't know who is benefitting. I mean I know you don't want your marriage to be over - who does really??? but I also know living in this day to day hell - really bites... I would stop talking to him and see what happens. I mean your husband is somewhat throwing the blame on you - saying ok I can't take it you have beat me up enough - and it is funny my husband is the same way but somewhere in their warped mind they forget that they did all of this and that they are very selfish - I hope you have a better day today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

CS- WOW! That seems to be a complete turnaround in WH's behavior. He seemed so sure that he was done with you and the M and now this. If I were to make a guess, I would say that his hysterical nature indicates that something is happening between him and OW. Its almost as if the A is coming apart and now he is all alone, cant go back to OW but is too afraid to come back to you. I may be wrong here, but a few things you mentioned caught my attention.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hw said he was interested in me but no more because I can't stop yelling at him, etc. I wear him down</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- your Plan A efforts have just been acknowledged! He has noticed the change and it got him interested. The events of last week changed that, but not permanently. Get back into Plan A and show him your serious about the changes you have made. Yes, the phone calls and yelling were huge LB's, but it isn't the end of the M, not by a longshot.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he said everyone would be happier if he was dead, he wasn't very happy at all…. He kept saying, You won. You won.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- here is the guilt coming through. Seems that he either has finally realized what has happened, or he is finally able to express it the only way he knows how. He places a lot of the blame on you, but looking beyond the words a little, you can see he is feeling guilty about what he has done. Not remorseful (yet), but definetly guilty.

Are you still committed to the M? I ask because, to me, here is a golden opportunity for you. Don't call WH, send him a short, carefully worded email expressing your feelings about your LB's of last week. Tell him the stress of this situation has become too much for you and you didn't mean to hurt him. No one says you cant express your feelings, just do it in a constructive way (as should be done all the time anyway) Let him know you love him and are still committed to him. Maybe even mention some of the good things he does for you or the kids. Right now emails may be a better way of communicating, obviously personal contact between the both of you isn't going very well. Let things cool down, both of you are very emotionally charged right now and your letting these emotions control your actions.

Don't despair CS, all is not lost. Look at WH's actions and not his words. If he was so ready to call it quits, like he says, why would he be crying out to you like this? Something is changing, take it slowly and don't push anything on WH right now, let him come to you, be that safe haven in this storm of turmoil. It aint going to be easy, but if you do, it will have a lot of positive rewards for the both of you later on.

Hang on, CS, looks like the roller-coaster may be heading out for another wild ride!

Thanks for your reply. I'll write more later. I have had the flu all day. I called WH, at 3, left voice mail asking if he'd come over for 2 hours, feed kids and put them to bed. He called at 8, asked how I was feeling, said that's too bad, and asked to speak to the kids (who were in bed). I said, So you are no longer going to return my phone calls or help me? He said, I just checked my messages. I asked if he was going to be around tonight if I needed him. He said, I'm not telling you anything. He said, I wrote down on a piece of paper how our next phone conversation would go, and this is it.
I hung up on him. I called him once for help.
I hate him.
Can't Sleep

Can't Sleep - I am sorry - you know it really seems that when it rains it pours doesn't it - I feel the same way that most times I am the one left in charge of everything while he is off on his merry way !! But you know what you have to think that in the long run they are the ones that are going to loose out - the kids are going to know that you are the one that raised them. You are going to have that wonderful relationship with them and he is going to be lost - And someday I hope and pray for this day - they are going to wake up and realize what they lost and hopefully we will have already been over all of the hurt and pain and are now happy. I think because you aren't feeling well that the day is just seeming worse than it is - go to sleep get a good nights sleep - Don't worry about him - ignore him - everyone always tells me you can only control yourself so don't try to fix him or anything - it isn't going to work - they have got to hit rock bottom. I hope you are feeling better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Mimi

In further thinking about tonight, I realize WH baited me into that conversation. He never mentioned I had called for help..waited for me to bring it up and add tension to the conversation. Sometimes I don't feel like I am going to make it through this. I really don't. Last night I was scared for him, he sounded sucidal, he sounded miserable (blaming me for it) and tonight he was so mean and I fell right into it.
Part of me is afraid he is taping these conversations for a RO...Possibly?
Ironically, I sent him a nice e-mail today saying I hope he was feeling better and I wouldn't call him for personal reasons, which I didn't. He hasn't read it yet. I wish I could retrieve it.
What is he pulling with this? I feel like he is up to something.
I feel like I can't handle this anymore. I didn't sleep last night, I have the flu, my kids are feeling the tension, I can't find a f/t job to save my life, I'm looking for housing, we're negotating our settlement. I really feel so bad. I don't know how he can hate me so. I really don't. Last week he sent me an e-mail saying what a good person I am etc.
I think he is practically living with the OW; yet, he denies it.
I can't take much more. I really can't.
-Can't Sleep

MAW-Thank you for your fast reply. It feels so good to know someone is reading tonight. I feel so out of control. I hope you are right-happiness is around the corner. I wish this wasn't happening. I wish I could take back the past two weeks and go back to being friendly but I think best course of action now is business friendly. I hope you find happiness soon too.
Thanks again,
-Nutso (can't sleep)

Well you are right, rage isn't working for you.

You said friendly isn't "working" either. Well, I can tell you why it isn't - but you won't like it.

Your definition of "working" involves your husband changing. You have tried everything under the sun to get him to change, and he hasn't and now you are angry - but since your plan A seems to involve suppressing the anger, you are turning it on yourself....making you depressed.

The reason why "nothings changed" is because you haven't changed.

Change yourself and everything else will fall into place.

Get the focus off of him and what he is doing, and start paying attention to what you need and what you are doing. Do you like what you see in the mirror?

Bramblerose,
I like honesty. Thank you.
I understand what you mean about my Plan A supresses anger and I turn it into depression. But what do I do with my anger? Seriously. Do you mean working out, etc, will make it better? I don't know what to do with it or make it go away.
Should I wake up tomorrow (assuming I sleep) and pretend the last two weeks didn't happen and be friendly and try to refocus? I believe my WH has really decided not to talk to me at all.
I'm not trying to be dense here. I am at a loss about to feel good again. I do the right things, antidepress, exercise, activities, etc. but it's still there. Do other people just decide they are going to not think about spouse and do it? It doesn't seem that easy to me. I can say I'm letting him go but I don't really believe it. Part of me can't let go. In the back of my mind, I am still hoping for his return and I think that is what holds me back.
I appreciate your insight. I reread my posts frequently to try to absorb it.
-Can't Sleep