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Spacecase: your letter was absolutely beautiful, and I believe your wife is in for a rude awakening, to receive that letter, then no contact, then the anniversary, it will be tough for both of you.

I wish I had some advice to offer you, I really do, because you have helped me out so much, the only thing I can say is that you and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers

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GC, believe me, being in your thoughts and prayers, especially my family, is more than I can ask for! Bless you!

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now, image TWO of those!

ol' 2long may not be very accurate, but he's precise! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Phanerozoic Eon
the span of geologic time extending about 540 million years from the end of the Proterozoic Eon to the present. The Phanerozoic, the eon of visible life, is divided into three major spans of time ...


2L; you're in trouble, man! If your math is THIS FAR OFF...heck, my little 8-digit calculator can beat that! LOL@!!!

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SC:

"2L; you're in trouble, man! If your math is THIS FAR OFF...heck, my little 8-digit calculator can beat that! LOL@!!!"

Heck yeah, my math IS that far off! But +-1080 million years is an honest appraisal of the accuracy of the dates I give in MY line of work! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just don't tell JL. He might review a proposal of mine someday! DOH!

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Hi there Spacecase,

I'm very surprised that you and others aren't doing even just a little happy dance on your Dear Wife's recent (or is that last minute) progress! Wasn't this the FIRST time she DIDN'T tell you and/or SH what you both wanted to hear even though she had no intention of following through---and instead was honest, with you as well as herself?? I know it's a small step, but I think it's a very important one and I hope that it is the first of many.

You did great SC---you did an excellent Plan A even after the extensions when you were wearing out, not an easy feat!! Now it's time for an excellent Plan B---time to rejuvenate so you will be refreshed and ready for the next step(s) in this process.

I will continue to keep your family in my prayers, especially your Dear Wife because I think she will need them more in these next weeks.

One small step for Spacewife, one giant leap for ??????

Take care Spacefamily!

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She emailed me just now....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> SC,
After reading and re-reading your letter, I am only going to say that I feel a terrible and profound sadness due to everything that has happened, your feelings, my pain, and our lack of mutual understanding.

I will not answer your letter at this time, probably I will do so later on, since it is very, very painful to me. I understand your position and I respect it; if you wish to cut all contact off for now, I will respect that, as I have always done with your things.

But before that, there are several things I want to say.

The first is that if you want to communicate my mistakes to the world, do it but do it well and honestly. I understand you have your position and I have mine, you see things one way, and I see them another way. But at least let’s respect each other and not only for us but for our children.

And I will take this opportunity to tell you that I do not agree how you have handled things with the kids. I understand your pain and your position, but they are, after all OUR children and they will always be OUR children. On one occasion during this year I also made the mistake of exposing only my point of view on our problem to <name>, and when you pointed it out, I corrected it. I ask you to manage these things with more care, not only for us but also for the kids. And I would thank you if you did not contact <my IC> since it is uncomfortable for her and for me.

I think that if there is something we need to discuss, we can do it directly, without involving D or B; I don’t agree with that. I understand you do not want contact but I also think we can be civilized, don’t you think?

As it relates to expenses, I’d appreciate your being more specific. By your letter I understand you will pay the mortgage and groceries, “and other basic expenses”. What do you mean exactly?

I think it is fair that we share the expenses, even though at this time I am not in a good situation to do that. But I think it is only fair for you to do that. I understand I’ll have to pay for my car and utilities, but what happens with the rest?

SC, with this I do not want to fight with you or get into arguments, I will do my best to cover the expenses that are necessary, but please give me some time as you well know the situation I am in right now.

I understand we are both responsible for this, but unfortunately my situation is difficult right now; I know yours is as well since you are unemployed, but you fortunately have other resources which I do not have. I don’t mean to say that I won’t cover anything, and I think that if we cannot continue to cover our current expenses, maybe we should sell the house. My interest is in maintaining the kids in the best conditions that we are able, even under these difficult circumstances, and even more now that we are separated. I ask you, therefore, to evaluate the situation and let me know your decision.

Lastly, I want to tell you that when I asked you for more time, I only did so in order to cleanse myself and heal myself, as I told Steve, and I understand why, since I always felt that your things came first, your pain, your needs, etc. so in order to look at myself, cleanse myself, and heal myself I need to be alone. I too have a lot of pain inside not only due to past things, but due to everything, and unfortunately I am not in conditions to say right now, OK, let’s forget the past and start working on us. It hurts too much, you know?

Like I told you, the R with OM is in the past, and I will demonstrate it, but I need time; not in order to demonstrate it, but to heal and I cannot do it under pressure by you. I understand your position, please understand mine.

SC, I have always loved you very deeply, you have been the center of my life, and I never, ever thought we might not be together. Look at what we’ve come to. I fell in love with you since the first day I saw you, and I have always loved you. And I ask you to forgive me for all the suffering; I never meant to hurt you, on the contrary, it was circumstance which led me to make this mistake or these mistakes.

I hope with all of my heart that I can heal my wounds and my pain, and hope that our souls and our hearts can meet again on the same path.

I truly love you!

I Will not communicate with you again, respecting your wishes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think there are a couple of points I should clarify, or at least explain MY POV on them;

I have told very few people about our situation, and I believe that I have always been balanced in these cases. She, perhaps, does not believe that, but there is not a case in particular we've discussed, so I admit I may be guilty of this, and if I am it is unintended.

Same with the kids. I have been as honest as possible with them, and I have defended her in their eyes as much as I have been able to, explaining how these things happen, and to be lenient and patient with her. That she has basically been "lost".

As far as communicating with her IC, since she's a friend, and I saw the email my W sent her, I emailed her letting her know I'dbe happy to tell her my POV or asist in any way I could, if she so desired. She emailed me back, asked me some stuff, suggested other things, and I responded. I have not done so for a while now, and only in response to her emails.

What now? Do I not respond? Do I? What to say?

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YetAgain:
<strong>Hi there Spacecase,

I'm very surprised that you and others aren't doing even just a little happy dance on your Dear Wife's recent (or is that last minute) progress! Wasn't this the FIRST time she DIDN'T tell you and/or SH what you both wanted to hear even though she had no intention of following through---and instead was honest, with you as well as herself?? I know it's a small step, but I think it's a very important one and I hope that it is the first of many.

You did great SC---you did an excellent Plan A even after the extensions when you were wearing out, not an easy feat!! Now it's time for an excellent Plan B---time to rejuvenate so you will be refreshed and ready for the next step(s) in this process.

I will continue to keep your family in my prayers, especially your Dear Wife because I think she will need them more in these next weeks.

One small step for Spacewife, one giant leap for ??????

Take care Spacefamily!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone always manages to find some positives in all of my W's crazy antics!

I think you are absolutely right, YA, she WAS honest! She told us to take a hike, but she WAS honest! LOL!!!

And it IS progress! You are right!

Thank you for your prayers, especially for my dear W. Thank you.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What now? Do I not respond? Do I? What to say?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No Contact is No Contact. I say don't respond to her directly at all. Let your intermediary take your answers to her financial questions to her.

No Contact is No Contact. Emergency Only!!!!

You can do it!!! I know you can!!!

ST

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I thought the whole point of plan B was to not respond. She needs tough love now, right? I know I don't have nearly the experience and wisdom of many on this board, esp. who've been there for awhile, but I think helping her in any way now will destroy the purpose of Plan B, right? It sounds like she's been waffling forever and wants you to continue to enable this, from what she wrote in the letter. Some parts of it were nice and I guess it's positive she wrote so fast (even though you asked for no contact??) but I read a lot of defensivenss too, and something to the effect of "why don't you think you should pay for me anymore, I'm in a bad situation, I have this problem, I have that problem, etc, etc". She wants you to help her again financially, and I don't think you should. You are doing more than enough IMO. Sorry to be harsh I know she is your W but I think this has gone on long enough and it is so unfair to you.

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Sorry to reply again so fast but I just re-read her letter. From my perspective she is coming off as very whiny, blaming you for her actions, and also saying circumstances "led" her to make her mistakes. And disapproving how you handle things with your children- I just feel even more stongly after a 2nd read that if you respond to this, you will be completely in her control again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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Agreed. She is doing what My FWW does...uses her embarrassment at what she has done to use kids and friends as leverage. She doesn't want them to know how she has screwed up.

Sorry, lady, there are consequences for your actions. Like my FWW, she is risking EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE SHE LOVES...and unless she faces up to that reality, you can only enable her confusion.

Stand tall, big guy.

W

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<small>[ September 04, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

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SC:

Very interesting letter! You did the right thing. Now it's her turn to figure this out.

Good news is that she not only loves you, she TOLD you she does (in reference to the emails *I* got during my week away from MY W, which did NOT have ILY in them).

But it's time for plan B to work.

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Bizarre, to say the least:

She wants to have her own "space" & stuff&#8230;. At the same time starts the negotiating dance about finances, knowing full well that you are in difficulties on that front

Outwardly acknowledges that you are hurt&#8230;. At the same time claims she is "hurt because of everything" and focuses on that

Says OM is a thing of the past&#8230;. But doesn&#8217;t want to/cant demonstrate it

Writes a whole paragraph about how she fell in love with you etc&#8230;. at the same time seems *very* composed, if not glad, to see you go.

Says she respects your wishes for NC&#8230;. At the same time says she wants to talk with you directly

It's not her fault&#8230;. It's "external circumstances", and please: don&#8217;t tell anyone anything different because it's not true.

I think that's exactly what plan B is about. To help WS understand these contradictions. So: go on, respect NC and give it time. Remember from the other threads here the roller coaster from plan B (I'm not an expert here, but I seem to have picked up that WS firstly feel a "high" from "liberation" for a couple of weeks after which reality starts to sink in)

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Dear Space:

I am busy now but did read your W's response. I thought it was a very nice email. She shows her fear quite well. The financial questions are very reasonable for someone planning their finances.

There is her pain there and she sees the work she has to do. I also see the love and respect she has for you. These are good things SC.

I also see the rewrite of history and blame shifting but did you expect anything different at this point in time.

I thought it was a very good reply at this time.

I think it is fair to go over what other expenses if any you are paying, if you feel you have been unclear in any area. I would probably do it through an intermediary.

I don't know maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed but I thought it was OK.

All my best

Jack

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Spacecase,
I am sort of new here, so I don't know all your situation. But, I feel your pain and wish you all the best. No real advice, I need it, can't give it. Just wanted to show my support.
Love
S

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Space, I could have written that letter. Trust me, she's talking to herself more so than you. She's trying to convince herself that this is HER idea just as much as yours, you just got to it first. She's still really focused on being "right" and is under the impression that that's where you are too. I do understand her confusion at complete shut out of your life and mediation on simple things between friends...that would have blown me away too and been far from my understanding. But there IS a valid reason and it will work its magic in time. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT respond back!!! THIS IS PLAN B...time for you to show her that boundries in fact mean boundries. It seems to me that she sees this as a "time out" instead of a seperation that will lead to Dv if she doesn't pull her head out. Take care of yourself and don't let her break down your resolve.

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I guess I can write her a note with the financial details she wants, and leave it in the mail box...it's not a big deal, just 2 lists: I'll pay for this, you pay for that...

I sure wish I could answer a lot of that other nonsense, but just like with her other email, I won't. I suspect in her "way of thinking" no response might be taken as agreement, though.

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

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Right...that sounds good.

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I need to go read Sing's thread about how they come out of the fog one day...

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

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