Spacey,
I told you she would contact you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . You have done well by not responding.

Yes, give her the financial details for now, and give the rest some time and thought to decide if you need to respond on any of it. (like "civil" communication about other things). Can you send her the financial details on e-mail instead on paper? That way you each have a copy, and a record of you sending it to her. Just a thought.

Hang in there. You may not see any clear skies for a while. But I'm sure you will - eventually.

I can just send her an email spreadsheet attachment with the financials...I was going to just print that out anyway...2 columns I pay, and U pay...

Now...let the debate begin! Do I or do I not acknowledge our Anniversary on Friday?

I was just thinking a card (or e-card even) saying something like "this would be a special day were it not for this "Fritzed Up" situation we're in!"

Yeah, I've got my fire-retardant suit on! Go ahead, let's see the flames! LOL!!!

Spacecase:

wow, that was quick, you know I am not an expert at all, I can only tell you my opinion and from the books I have read. Do not respond back to this, if you do, she will not take the plan B seriously, she would feel she could reel you in anytime. Your letter obviously left a huge impression on her. Remember, she asked for more time, and she is getting it, don't let her manipulate you. As for the expenses, I would just write a quick note about that only, send it through a 3rd party.
She has her time now, she can't complain, she said she loves you, now she is going to learn to live without you, I hope she wakes up

SC,
I'm so sorry you are in this situation. Any communication between you two should be VERY short and to the point. So to reply to her email a simple: thanks for understanding. (and attached your spreadsheet). I don't think you should acknowledge your anniversary. I think you will make a stronger point of what Plan B is by NOT acknowledging it. She has had 1 year of wonderful Plan A NOW it is time for Plan B. There are No marriage benefits for someone who is not willing to commit to being married. You have not asked for a lot over this year - just a simple marriage committment between TWO people. There are no more perks now. All the perks she had with you in Plan A have not made her budge. An anniversary acknowledgement won't make her budge either. In fact, I think it will get her to drag her feet longer. She will get the card and think: yep I still got him, now let me go an write OM a letter. You will demonstrate your stand better if there is no contact. Keep it businesslike, simple, no extras. There is NOTHING you can say that you haven't already said to her. She hasn't heard you all along. Now is her time to reflect on the passed year and she will begin to hear you Plan A efforts as time without you goes on. She will draw into her memory bank and your kind words will be there, tucked away, where she has been unwilling to hear them until now. She sees no change in you?!!!??? Give me a break! I think in her email to you she is searching for your buttons and expecting a reply plus she is probably thinking she will have unlimited amount of time writing OM possibly visiting him again if possible. But it will get old real fast. I think you will like Plan B once you get the hang of it. Once you know and understand that NOT communicating at this time IS/= loving her.

No flames... just a simple answer.

Nope. Don't think you should acknowledge the Anniversary. Plan B is sort of a practice divorce.

Ok, so I've been lurking and I can't seem to not post to some of these threads. Guess everyone is stuck with a small part of me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SC

I have been reading a few of your threads without responding much, if at all. You seemed to be doing very well in following Plan A, and getting great advice from everyone. However I could not let this thread go without saying a couple of things in regard to the latest letter from your W.

Ok, and perhaps I see it differently than most of the other posters, I don't see some good in what she wrote....I see a lot of good stuff in her letter. You seem to jump right into defensive mode with everything she writes. You need to stop that where possible. You need to find the good and praise it when you find it. If all you see or want to comment on is the bad, that is all you are going to get.

I understand that you are now in Plan B. Now you will have to weigh just how strict a Plan B you will allow yourself to actually be in. After receiving a letter such as this, I would think it would be extremely hard not to break that Plan right now today. That is how much promise I see in her letter. I am not encouraging you to respond to her in any way. Just that it would be hard as heck if it were me, and not due to the money issues in any way.

I guess my advice is similar to what I gave another "friend" some time ago. Basically don't become a hardass in her eyes. Be strong where she is concerned, but not too strong or you may push her completely away. And realize early if something isn't working to your exact expectations...your expectations could be out of sinc with what you actually want to accomplish, which could doom your marriage.

Take this time of no contact to recharge. But be ever watchful of the crack in her fog, for lack of a better word, where you end Plan B immediatly and go back to Plan A and recovery.

Just a few thoughts. Now back to lurk mode for me.

jd

SC,

Just what exactly would you be celebrating at this anniversary?? That you still have breath in your body? Ignore the anniversary. She has done this and she needs to deal with it.

I think that most everyone's contributions or assessments have been good, but Nick's and Hope4's assessments are where I sit. She is still blame shifting. There is more that you don't know: My bet other affairs (you know of two). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And, perhaps some other things that aren't all that good.

Hope's comment that she thinks this is a "time out" had me rolling on the floor, but she is right I fear. This is going to take months of no contact and you moving on before she "gets it". This is serious stuff and not a game, and she is still playing games.

Do you want to have some insight into how she may be thinking?? Go read Neverthoughts latest thread. She is trying to end the affair but read how she describes things. I think you will have a clue how your W is now viewing things.

BUT, I think one thing is being lost here in this discussion. Plan B is not about how your W is taking this or what it is going to do for or to her. Plan B is for you holding on to your love for her UNTIL she does figure things out, IF YOU CAN.

Any and all contact with her, means you are going to be losing love for her faster. All of the second guessing: should I acknowledge the anniversary? Should it do this? Or that? Draws down your love bank.

Plan B is to preserve this bank with the hope that your W will eventually see the light. If the separation helps her see it fine, but that isn't the purpose.

REMEMBER THE PURPOSE OF PLAN B

God Bless,

JL

I guess I need to clarify; I think my W's email response to the Plan B letter showed many, many positive signs...no question of that. Perhaps I should have said that, and not only focus on the "bad". And most of all; I think she's being HONEST!

Good morning Spacecase, and what a good morning it is after reading your Dear Wife's email!

I haven't read any of the responses after the email and only have a few minutes so....

My advice is to send a copy to SH pronto.

My advice is to see what advice Pepper and others have.

My advice is to make a list of the many ways you can continue to Plan A both you and your Dear Wife while in Plan B---she gave a lot of info in this regard.

My advice is to celebrate the fact that you went to Plan B when it was time (time for BOTH of you it seems) and not one minute before it was time, and celebrate the fruits of doing this after the foundation of an excellent Plan A (her email proves this SC, it PROVES it!!).

My advice is to do a happy dance. Your Dear Wife's email is full of honesty, love, and hope for the future of your M!

My advice is to stay focused on an excellent Plan B---not just for you but for her too. I believe that your Plan B will be need to be unique in many ways, so don't try to do it RIGHT try to do it WELL ok??

The more I get to know a little bit about your Dear Wife the more I like her. I will pray that it is not long before she realizes that it's time to come up with another plan for healing herself, one that will be more effective than the one that hasn't been working very well for her.

Take care Spacecase. This is not going to be easy for you but I am confident that you will do an excellent, unique Plan B that will allow you to exercise patience with your Dear Wife's journey to healing while you continue on your own journey to healing. The love you have for your Dear Wife has been apparent throughout your posts, and the love she has for you is apparent in her email to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong>SC,
Just what exactly would you be celebrating at this anniversary?? That you still have breath in your body? Ignore the anniversary. She has done this and she needs to deal with it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is right on. No further debate.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that most everyone's contributions or assessments have been good, but Nick's and Hope4's assessments are where I sit. She is still blame shifting. There is more that you don't know: My bet other affairs (you know of two). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And, perhaps some other things that aren't all that good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My instinct was the same; with Nick and Hope4's (and others) assessments. Still major blame-shifting.
It hurts to hear your next line about more As and possibly other things, but I'm afraid you are probably right. I have been "feeling" this for some time now. Don't really want to think about that...it'd be too painful right now.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hope's comment that she thinks this is a "time out" had me rolling on the floor, but she is right I fear. This is going to take months of no contact and you moving on before she "gets it". This is serious stuff and not a game, and she is still playing games.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly. She DOES think this is a time-out, a game. How sad so much time has passed and she's still "there".

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want to have some insight into how she may be thinking?? Go read Neverthoughts latest thread. She is trying to end the affair but read how she describes things. I think you will have a clue how your W is now viewing things.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Great! I will. Any other good Plan B threads you can think of?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BUT, I think one thing is being lost here in this discussion. Plan B is not about how your W is taking this or what it is going to do for or to her. Plan B is for you holding on to your love for her UNTIL she does figure things out, IF YOU CAN.

Any and all contact with her, means you are going to be losing love for her faster. All of the second guessing: should I acknowledge the anniversary? Should it do this? Or that? Draws down your love bank.

Plan B is to preserve this bank with the hope that your W will eventually see the light. If the separation helps her see it fine, but that isn't the purpose.

REMEMBER THE PURPOSE OF PLAN B

God Bless,

JL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know JL, I know. It'll take a few days, I imagine, for that to really sink in for me. It's SO hard to just let go and let them flounder, crash and burn. So VERY hard.

SC,

Yes it is hard, but the alternative is harder right now: divorce. So stick with this.

As for the possibility of other affairs, I think it is there, BUT since her first one was never really addressed, I see that IF she decides to come around ALL of this can be put to rest because a whole NEW and better relationship will be built by you two.

My personal view is that your marriage to her has ended. What is being decided is if a NEW one will be built upon the ruins of the old one. That will take her seeing things much differently and you having a lot to forgive. I think it can be done, but you must go through this trial by fire

God Bless,

JL

SC,

Don't feel pressured. Take your time and gather your thoughts. Then follow your gut.

E_C

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Extremely_confused ]</small>

Space,

You know that I have not experienced what you are going through, and often I am reluctant to post as a result...however!!

I have tried to become an expert at MB philosophies because they have worked for me in my situation. What is interesting about many of them is that they seem so counter-intuitive. So on faith I have followed them...and I have to say I've seen them work.

I feel very encouraged by your W e-mail. She is getting honest; however I still sense some secrecy. Sheesh!! I don't think she has hit her emotional bottom yet; the stronger people are the longer it takes, and the harder it hits. Yikes, it could be very painful for you and your children.

I agree with others that you should send her e-mail to SH and tell him about the anniversary to see what he feels you should do. Knowing how hard it is to reach him I opened up SAA to see what is said.

"Plan B separates the betrayed spouse and the needs he or she met from the waywardspouse. It is a taste of what is to come if divorce actually takes place."

Space in this case a true Plan B would not include any acknowledgement of your anniversary, since I doubt if there were a divorce you would acknowledge it. This is one part that is counter-intuitive to me. I would want to acknowledge the anniversary...but maybe that's just me.

I think she deserves the spreadsheet spelling out the financial arrangements.

Back to SAA - "Sue missed Jon's money. At first, she wanted to be completely on her own and she had saved to prepare for her independence. But those savings ran out much faster than she realized, and the money she earned was not nearly enough to pay for thelifestyle she had come to enjoy."

"Plan B was designed to help Sue discover that all of her needs could not be met by Greg (OM)."

"Plan B was helpful to Jon. His separation from Sue protected him from experiencing much of the pain he had tried to endure when they were living together. Money was not the only thing that Jon had provided Sue; he had also provided care and security for her children. They missed their dad terribly and blamed Sue for creating the situation."

"Sue's affair ended just as most affairs end. In some cases, it's the wayward spouse that realizes that the lover cannot offer enough to compensate for the loss of his or her marriage."

Space, I Hope this helps. CSue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YetAgain:
<strong>Good morning Spacecase, and what a good morning it is after reading your Dear Wife's email!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems the pattern repeats itself; when I first read them, they seem negative. Then, as I re-read them, analyze them and think about them, they become fairly positive. I'm pretty happy with her response in many ways!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
My advice is to send a copy to SH pronto. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Done

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
My advice is to see what advice Pepper and others have.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep, Orchid, u ladies around?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
My advice is to make a list of the many ways you can continue to Plan A both you and your Dear Wife while in Plan B---she gave a lot of info in this regard.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Intriguing thought...ideas?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
My advice is to celebrate the fact that you went to Plan B when it was time (time for BOTH of you it seems) and not one minute before it was time, and celebrate the fruits of doing this after the foundation of an excellent Plan A (her email proves this SC, it PROVES it!!).

My advice is to do a happy dance. Your Dear Wife's email is full of honesty, love, and hope for the future of your M!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that why you say it "proves it"? the honesty, love and hope?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
My advice is to stay focused on an excellent Plan B---not just for you but for her too. I believe that your Plan B will be need to be unique in many ways, so don't try to do it RIGHT try to do it WELL ok??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Unique" Plan B...that's an interesting concept...like how?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
The more I get to know a little bit about your Dear Wife the more I like her. I will pray that it is not long before she realizes that it's time to come up with another plan for healing herself, one that will be more effective than the one that hasn't been working very well for her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish she'd decide to talk to other people, some MBers, listen to Steve. Unfortunately, her IC and her BigSis are both fervent "do what you need to do to make YOURSELF happy...everything else (M, H, etc.) is secondary and should fit into point # 1." And she listens because by saying that, they are the only ones that support her reluctance to look inside herself. Unknowingly on their part, I'm sure.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Take care Spacecase. This is not going to be easy for you but I am confident that you will do an excellent, unique Plan B that will allow you to exercise patience with your Dear Wife's journey to healing while you continue on your own journey to healing. The love you have for your Dear Wife has been apparent throughout your posts, and the love she has for you is apparent in her email to you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope love is enough to get us through! Thanks YA!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong>...As for the possibility of other affairs, I think it is there, BUT since her first one was never really addressed, I see that IF she decides to come around ALL of this can be put to rest because a whole NEW and better relationship will be built by you two.

My personal view is that your marriage to her has ended. What is being decided is if a NEW one will be built upon the ruins of the old one. That will take her seeing things much differently and you having a lot to forgive. I think it can be done, but you must go through this trial by fire</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder if SHE'LL ever understand that this is the only way we could make it in the future...by creating a whole new M. I think she's still in repair mode, rather than discard and build new. Maybe I am too, to a certain extent.

EC, I got your hotmail email and responded...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CSue:
<strong>Space,

You know that I have not experienced what you are going through, and often I am reluctant to post as a result...however!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NEVER think that!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I feel very encouraged by your W e-mail. She is getting honest; however I still sense some secrecy. Sheesh!! I don't think she has hit her emotional bottom yet; the stronger people are the longer it takes, and the harder it hits. Yikes, it could be very painful for you and your children.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes; she's too proud and somehow still believes I derive some kind of pleasure from her backing down or admitting a mistake or whatever...weird! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Space in this case a true Plan B would not include any acknowledgement of your anniversary, since I doubt if there were a divorce you would acknowledge it. This is one part that is counter-intuitive to me. I would want to acknowledge the anniversary...but maybe that's just me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had the same debate going on in my head, but I know I cannot acknowledge it...it'll probably p--s her off, but I know it'll send the right signal, and a strong one. There's nothing to celebrate, darlin'!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think she deserves the spreadsheet spelling out the financial arrangements.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, certainly. No question.

Thanks CSue, it's good to re-read the pertinent portions of SAA...I do it all the time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SC ...I am having an avalanche of patients right now <waving> "HI" ... be back later...

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

SC,
How odd our anniversaries are 2 days apart. As I am still in plan A (not for long) I plan to just go out and have a nice dinner with spouse.
I think the one positive I saw in your wifes email was the fact that she was talking about when she first fell in love with you. If she is thinking of that maybe she is remembering those loving feelings and it will be incentive for her to get off the fence. My only suggestion for Friday is don't be alone. Call your friends, call some of the Houston Mb-er's. Don't be alone. Go out and try to take your mind off things.
Thinking of you H,
Layli

SC,

You know what is so odd about your W and many others. She thinks that if she tells you everything, tries to change, and then commits to the marriage that YOU win. Isn't that odd?

You aren't going to win, you are going to and do feel like crap. You are going to and have had to face your failings as an H and your role in the marriage. This isn't a contest between to people and that is the biggest thing your WW and other WS's seem to forget. You didn't enjoy this game at all, and frankly the score at the end won't compensate you for what it cost for them to play the game.

The only win in this is if she comes back to you and becomes HAPPY and that means that she has WON. Why is that so hard for them to see?? I really don't know, but I do know your WW isn't the first to think these things. It isn't important that you are right or she is right, it is important for the the both of you to be right.

I have learned a lot at this site, but I haven't figured out how this is a game and how working on the marriage makes one person a winner and the other a loser. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

If you do figure this out SC, let me know.

God Bless,

JL