No hijack, JR, very useful perspective.

I take it, then, that you DID acknowledge your Anniv. and are not happy you did?

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

I read you've already decided to not ack. anniversary. Just wanted to let you know I completely agree with this. She'll NEVER believe you have a backbone and can back up your words if you say no contact, and then go against yourself!!!

I'm not going to acknowledge our Anniversary, as I believe it would just weaken my Plan B.

But I do it under the caution flag, because this type of thing has always been EXTREMELY and UNEQUIVOCALLY important to my W. It WILL be a major LB in her eyes, no matter what's going on! I'm serious, this stuff is the kind of thing she measures my love with!

I suppose she'll understand one day.

"Not happy that I did?"

Ummmm... as with almost everything, there were pros and cons...

Pros:

- I got to see her "state" - not sure how contrived, but she was sure a wreck at the end. I took that to mean something, although we're supposed to believe 0% of what they say and 50% of what they do.

- I got in some nice "Plan A" points... She was clearly glad to see me, and I wasn't LB'ing at all, so must have seemed all the more "attractive"!

- It was nice just to talk to her... but it'd been 6 weeks for me... it'd only be a few days for you.

Cons:

- Let her "check me out" - that I'm still waiting for her... she asked me if I was dating anyone, and I had to reply truthfully, "no"

- I did experience withdrawal again afterwards... it was tough.

- She backed off big time afterwards for a while, if I recall... I think once she thought I was "there" for her, she could start misbehaving again.

They really are children...

Hey SC You sound like you are handling yaself well!!
My take on this is that your lovely wife is TESTING! you. I would do as others have suggested & email her the spreadsheet stating your financial intentions clearly so that she will not having anything she needs to "CLARIFY" with you as she is going to feel cut off, but thats what plan B is all about she needs to "FEEL" the ramifications of her decisions & has been so used to you tossing out olive branches to her she will be expecting more of the same.

Regarding your anniversary DON'T send her a card PLEASE DON'T it won't help what you are trying to do at all! YOUR WIFE WILL BE EXPECTING YOU TO DO JUST THAT!my suggestion here is why don't you turn the day into a different celebration..You have come a long way in this so far why don't you turn the day into a celebration of what you have achieved with your MB so far, think how far you have travelled this road & congratulate yourself on a job well done> You did a great plan A she knows that you don't need to tell her, leave her to think things over. The best ANNIVERSARY present you can give her is the SPACE that she says she needs & then lets see once she has UNWRAPPED the present (may take her a wee while but as you say "hang onto ya hat") the fog may just suddenly clear when she realises that she has to now travel the long & winding road alone she just may reach the crossroads & take the turning that leads you both back into recovery!! As always just my take on things will b thinking of you....

Hey Space ~

Couple of thoughts. Whiney, dishonest and basically very selfish was my reaction to her note. You asked for no communications, she said she would respect it, yet wrote this letter.

She seems to think that there is room for negotiation here - she doesn't 'get' that she doesn't get to 'agree' to the terms of Plan B. Draw your boundaries firmly. Make sure you do NOT allow her contact with you. In these days of caller id and voicemail, there is no reason to have to 'accidently' talk to someone.

Maybe your lack of acknowledgement of your anniversary will be an LB, so what? Its time for consequences - she doesn't get to keep your love AND the other man.

She also doesn't get to pick and choose what is financially or emotionally convenient at your expense any longer. If she wants to sell the house, tell her to work with your attorney. I'm serious.

She doesn't really believe that you are walking. Once that sinks in, maybe there'll be changes. But maybe not. You are now in Plan B until she wakes up, or your divorce is final. Stick to it, let her suffer the consequences of her choices. YOU are not doing this to her. She is.

ditto BR!

And something JR was talking about... I can comment on as well... and this point I'm making here is also consistent with something you need to remember: Plan B is for YOU...

The few times I broke Plan B ended up hurting me very badly. I could go dig up a post of mine if you want me to. I think the topic was "How I learned that Plan B is for ME" or something like that. There were a couple of times, but especially the one that caused me to post THAT one, where I broke Plan B.

It always hurt ME because I (a) didn't get the response I was hoping for, or (b) got a nasty response that really hurt.

Another thought to keep in mind is that there are very good chances that W will think ANY contact on your part from now on is manipulation.

Several veteran Plan B'ers have advised you here to stay strict with your "going dark". PLEASE, Spacey, relax. You've done VERY well, and now is the time to sit back and see what happens. You've planned the project, analyzed the possible outcomes, done all the testing, and now the project must "go live". Step back and let the project run. You'll KNOW (with our help) when it's time to step back in.

Faith1

BR, thanks. I think your points are all EXACTLY right on. They are being printed right now, and will be read nightly together with "The Language of Letting Go"!

I was wondering what your take would be...kinda' had a feeling you'd object to Plan B...I guess I am not yet able to put all these things straight and in the propoer position/perspective to each other; ULove, Plan B, Plan A, NC.....too much! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was wondering what your take would be...kinda' had a feeling you'd object to Plan B...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmm...what made you think that *I* would be against plan B?

I'm a big believer in it. I think that MOSt posters on this forum either don't understand it, or misuse it. Its not used nearly enough in the right way!

Just because I only lasted a week doesn't mean that its not good or right. I should have done a better Plan B. I also went against Steve's advice because I had completely given up on my marriage and I just wanted to figure out how to parent my kids with him. it all worked out ok in the end, but I wonder if I had stuck to my guns if it would have been over sooner. Oh well, just because you don't do it perfectly doesn't mean that everything will fail. I screwed up repeatedly and am still here with over a year of recovery under my belt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I am not yet able to put all these things straight and in the propoer position/perspective to each other; ULove, Plan B, Plan A, NC.....too much! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unconditional love is just like Acceptance and Forgiveness. All three are states of mind that allow us to make good decisions. You can unconditionally love your wife, even while doing a Plan B (showing yourself love and respect). You can accept your wife as she is, love her regardless, and still walk away to protect yourself.

Don't play games. You've drawn up a plan, now stick to it. Waffling will only make you look weak, not serious, and manipulating.

Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean - you did that with your letter. Now let your actions back it up.

Love your kids and take a darn break from this forum. GET A LIFE. I'm serious. How long has this situation completely consumed you? Time to take care of you now, so go see a movie, pick up a FICTIONAL book, do some shopping, take a walk, etc.

Get out there and start living. Thats the BEST cure ever for all of these ills.

SC:

Boy, nothing for ol' 2long 2add! It's all been said.

Did anybody check in on going_crazy?

SC,

IMHO:
Anniversary is a celebration of getting married and that celebration should be independent of any current rough times. I think it is a celebration for the union you made with your WW long ago. I say, celebrate the anniversary by yourself if you still appreciate being married, which appears to be the case. Think of it that you celebrated, and she just did not show up to the party. This would be truly the case. She has the requirements to show up to the party given to her by the Plan B letter, but refuses to do so.

Later on, when you two "make it" you can tell her that you did celebrate your love and your marriage for her; you just did so by yourself. She should appreciate this because it would be an act of love.

Don't know if you have responded already. But IMHO, send a financial spreadsheet only. No acknowledgement of anniversary. Anniversaries are for happily married people to celebrate together!

Otherwise don't engage with her. Get Steve Harley's advice before you do anything. Aside from the financial questions, most of what she said is a transparent effort to get you to engage in conversation with her. To debate her with who's right or wrong, what can be said or not said to others. Whether to sell the house or not.

It is nice she said the love stuff. It can be seen two ways. Either it's true and she needs a little time. OK well plan B is giving her a little more time to be alone and think. If that's what she wants why is she discussing it with you?

Unfortunately it could also be an attempt to reel you back in and keep you in the M while she continues to fence sit. Remember for many WS they need to really see and believe that their BS is done with them before they come around.

Well Spacecase,
It's rough any more trying to keep up with some of these marathon threads. After reading this one of yours I think I only have one suggestion.

You have lots of advice, and many really good pieces of insight, but I think you have just about analyzed things to death. I worry that all the information you have left may run and hide to avoid being worked over like the previous stuff was. If you find things missing off your hard drive, this may very well be the cause.

Really, I think it is time to turn most of your time and talent to other pursuits. From some of what JL said, I believe just thinking about it all the time may do damage to your bank - as much as contact could.

I suggest you turn your thoughts outside. You seem to be doing well with the job search, and in your relationship with your children, so find something out side of your normal circle of influence. Perhaps a relative or friend needs you for something. Perhaps you could lend your talents to a charity that needs talents like yours.

Certainly time would pass more quickly, the wait would not seem so bad. If you start a new job soon, that would do it, but if not, consider finding something else to do.
Having said all this, you provide a great service here with your advice, but I worry about your bank, it all comes back to the fact that your wife just doesn't get it, and you know she doesn't. Seems to me that the more you think about it, the heavier it weights on your mind. Go on a mental weight loss program, shed some of those excess pounds.

Also, if you plug all the small holes between the metal molecules on the hard drive case, the data won't be able to get away. Shake up the hard drive really good to spread it back on the platters. Ask 2long if it's better to shake up and down, or sideways. I can never remember. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>...Don't play games. You've drawn up a plan, now stick to it. Waffling will only make you look weak, not serious, and manipulating.

Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean - you did that with your letter. Now let your actions back it up.

Love your kids and take a darn break from this forum. GET A LIFE. I'm serious. How long has this situation completely consumed you? Time to take care of you now, so go see a movie, pick up a FICTIONAL book, do some shopping, take a walk, etc.

Get out there and start living. Thats the BEST cure ever for all of these ills.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to be honest and say that when I read this last night, it knocked the wind out of my sails.

I admit that you are absolutely right about all of this. And that I have been consumed by this in a way that I can't even comprehend. My whole life has self-destructed before my eyes, and I am left with very little to pick up the pieces and move forward. And with little desire or enthusiasm for it.

The forum, and helping others in some small way, became something that helped me pass the time, and was a positive thing in my life. And yet, I know I must start somewhere else, start doing other things, start creating a new life for myself, and I simply have not been able to do it.

<small>[ August 29, 2002, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

(((Spacecase)))) thanks for being there bud, I hope things are going well with you, I can't imagine how hard it is to go through an anniversary in Plan B.
going to bed, up and early to talk to Steve at 6am, I will post with my news, 2B or not 2B!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to be honest and say that when I read this last night, it knocked the wind out of my sails.

I admit that you are absolutely right about all of this. And that I have been consumed by this in a way that I can't even comprehend. My whole life has self-destructed before my eyes, and I am left with very little to pick up the pieces and move forward. And with little desire or enthusiasm for it.

The forum, and helping others in some small way, became something that helped me pass the time, and was a positive thing in my life. And yet, I know I must start somewhere else, start doing other things, start creating a new life for myself, and I simply have not been able to do it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right. And your feelings have been SO normal. Please stick around here as MUCH as you need to. K? Your help to others is fantastic, and is VERY MUCH in demand. And we're prolly the only people in your life that care to here about all those things rattling around in your head. We can also reassure you that your feelings are OK, and that you're not crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Sometimes it takes a swift kick from time to time, in order to find the nerve to fly out of the "MB" nest a little bit. I think that's all BR was doing. And I would want to say to you (and I thought I tried) ... is for you to TRY to let this stuff go a little bit. You have a BIG need for analyzing this stuff, and if it helps you, GREAT... but I am afraid you are analyzing too much at this point. I was trying to encourage you to relax a little bit and let Plan B run its course... and wait and see how its going to play out. There's no rush. And it WILL take some time.

This stuff is hard. And most of us feel like it's the hardest thing we've ever experienced. Trust those of us on the other side when we say you'll make it. This experience allows you to grow, and you'll back and be surprised, and PROUD of yourself for handling it the way that you are.

Sooo.... keep talking... we ARE here for you. But get out there and enjoy yourself, and enjoy life too, OK? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> God has blessed you with many things in your life. Enjoy them.

Spacecase,
I hope that we are just a fraction of the help to you as you are to us! We depend on you!
Don't leave us completely, we will go through withdrawal if you do!!!
KK

SC:

Xerox what SS said above, and others:

Remember what *I* did? Yeah, I posted like 200 times in a week, didn't sleep enough, and a simple fone call from my W one week after moving in2 the guest house had me drooling in2 my cheerios and babbling like an idiot. The following week, I posted maybe a dozen times. Took a serious break from the forum. AND IT HELPED!

I'm the sentient carbon-based life form I am today because of that... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ August 30, 2002, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Thanks everyone, I think it's clear that I must somehow overcome the paralysis that's been gripping me, and I will. Not sure how or when yet, but I will.

2L; The interesting thing about "loving them for who they are" is that in some way, and at some points in my trek, that seems to have been seen as an enabling, doormat posture.
After all, once I backed off from snooping, confronting, talking about the A and the OM, let her do her thing unimpeded, isn't that what I was doing? I was loving her as much as I could, ignoring the pain (at least as far as she was concerned) and living like I wanted her to see that I was capable of living. Fulfilling the ENs she'd allow me to fill, giving her my love...
Perhaps there's a difference in the sense that this was not "real", (after all I was in pain, just not showing it), but from her standpoint, it was all the love and acceptance I could give...

Personally, I think it's IMPOSSIBLE to do that and have it be REAL. At least while there's an active affair, I just do not see how it would be possible to truly give Unconditional Love.

Maybe I'm just delusional!

<small>[ August 30, 2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

SC:

I think it certainly CAN be a doormat pos2re. I think it might even HAVE been in your case. In mine, I don't think it is, but it wasn't easy 2 figure that out (and I'm not 100% certain either).

I think it's "working" now because of my sitch. My W is trying 2 finish this report, which is the only "rationalized" reason for continued contact. She doesn't SEE him in person, or talk 2 him on the fone. And she KNOWS that I need NC. So, by me backing off on even the minimal LBs I was doing, I've seen her opening up more - not just 2 me but 2 her family as well. They're getting closer than they have in decades.

I think a lot of this is my W coming out of the fog on her own since I spent my week away. She's realizing what she has 2 do, and is starting 2 work on her part of the M.

It's very cool. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />