Once again Honey, you can't control your H or the situation. You can only control yourself and your actions.

I agree with you that you need to have his visitation supervised but the only way to do that is to file for divorce, get custody and have a judge agree with you that he is indeed an alcoholic. In the meantime your H can file and ask for custody and that appears to be exactly what he is gearing up to do. He seems to have all of his ducks in a row.

Personally I would beat him to the punch and get the divorce papers filed. You will then have guaranteed support along with a court ordered visitation schedule and possibly the supervised visits that you want.

Yes, it's your marriage and your call to make but I think you should be aware that he can file any day and hit you with a custody battle by using each and every thing he perceives as your instability. I know in your shoes, I would file to protect myself and the children.

Honey - I agree with Tiny Dancer - I mean what if he does file and gets those visitations with the kids - I mean if his father is a lawyer then he is getting all sorts of advice maybe not from his father but maybe a father's friend or something - You need to do something legally to protect yourself and your children. Just because you file for divorce does not mean that you can never get back together. It would probably be easier for you if you told a judge about the bars, and the drinking while with the children etc. I am sure that any judge in their right mind would agree that that isn't a place for children to be (in a barroom). I really think that your only answer is to start something legally to protect your family....

my h has a lot more hot air and threats than will ever come to light... yes, I guess he wants to hang on and see the kids more to hurt me than his love for them .... he used my os as a slave last weekend.. while he stood there drinking beer... I have no trouble with my son helping out with house and yard work... but doing it all while dad watches with beer in hand? NO>

anyway my ys if I did not already mention just turned 4 and was on a roof? excuse me? to clean off leaves?

anyway, gotta get back to work..

he is a lot of hot air, he called last nite and was wasted... alcoholics are a diff . breed people... if you dont know how it is to be married to one....?

thanks, H

Honey - Hot air or not, you need to protect you and your boys legally. You need to tell yourself, the only things important right now are my boys and myself. You don't have to file for divorce to get this legal protection, you could file for a legal separation (in most states) which outlines visitation guidlines and support payments. I cannot urge you enough to talk to an attorney.

Right now, as it stands, he could take your boys for a visitation and decide not to return them, and he would be perfectly in his rights without a court order. Get a court order that specifies visitation. Protect yourself and your boys.

I agree, bars are not a good scene for children, but unfortunately you cannot control that, especially without legal intervention. If he were not an alcoholic you wouldn't be able to prevent it, but considering he is an alcoholic you have the argument that it is hazardous to your boys. Take this to an attorney, take it to a judge, and get some legal documentation of all of this.

You know, they will put limitations on things without knowing for sure. The allegations are detrimental enough to raise a brow, and although they may not be as strict as you want right now, it will be something. Then they will do a thorough investigation. Heck, hire a PI and have him get the bit on WH drinking habits.

You MUST do something. Really, we have no problem talking to you about this, but being here and venting only is not going to help the situation. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't trust the well being of my child on the notion that this man is full of hot air. I know you still love him Honey, and I pray that there is progress in the future for you and your family, but right now you have to do what is right by you and your boys.

I hope this helps. I am not trying to come across as mean, but I am worried for you. Take care, and please seek some other help.

Honey,
You've already come to the conclusion, if this is what you believe you have to follow through with it legally.

My boys are not going to grow up in beer joints with dad. I knwo in some cases people will disagree... I guess I am in the bible belt here and I do not agree with my kids learning these bad habits... plus if my h takes them there he will be drinking and his drinking does not stop at a few... if you know what I mean, it will not be safe to go home.

anyway... sorry you came to h's defesne lor.. but that is ok.... I do have to control the circumstances with my children and I do feel he is getting a lot of leadway all the while giving me NO FINANCIAL support aand being drunk all the time, etc.

I don't think your H is in the right. But just complaining and trying to direct what your H does when he has the kids will not achieve what you need to make you feel safe about your kids. If you feel so strongly you should take the next, legal step to do what you can to make it so.

Honey - Princess 0413 - is totally correct - venting is fine but you need to do something about it before something happens - You say no one would understand what being married to an alcholic is like - well you are right - but you do and do you really want this example for your children??? I would definately seek legal advice - once everything is on paper you wouldn't have any reason to talk to him about visitation and money isssues - it might make your life dealing with him much easier -- It is something to think about !

Honey,
I've had a thought about an option for figuring out the holidays.

Write down all the holidays in the year. Then go back to when you first became separated, recall where your kids spent the holiday and/or if H joined you, or vice versa. If you had any sole holidays with the kids (even if he was invited, even if it was his choice not to join you), it's probably his turn for those holdiays. Or yours, if he had them by himself. Also determine if either of you has had a bunch of holidays in a row.

Honey,

Here’s the visitation schedule the courts set up for my ex and me. This is not exactly the legal language as I took it from a note I keep in my day timer. But it’s accurate. I think this is what your H is looking for. It is a 65%/35% time split and is equitable and stable.

This is the type of schedule you (you and he) will get if you go to court so you may as well start it now.

If you feel that he should not have 35% responsibility for your sons than you will have to fight it tooth and nail in court.

-----Mother and father have joint legal custody. Mother has primary physical custody.
-----Mother’s Periods of Responsibility with parties’ son, Joe Zorweb, shall be as follows: On Friday at 7:00 p.m. and continuing until Thursday morning when school starts (8:00 a.m.). On alternating weeks, mother’s period of responsibility shall begin on Sunday at 7:00 pm and continue until Thursday morning when school starts.

-----Father’s Periods of Responsibility with parties’ son, Joe Zorweb, shall be as follows” On Thursday at the beginning of the school cay (8:00 a.m.), through Sunday at 7:00 p.m. On alternating weeks, father’s period of responsibility shall begin, Thursday at eh beginning of he school day (8:00 a.m.), through Friday at 7:00 p.m.

If a parent has son for two consecutive weekends in a row (due to holidays, vacations, etc.) then the other parent shall have son on the third weekend.

Here’s what that says…..
[m = mom, d= dad]
-----------------------------------
Wk1...M..T..W..T.......F.......S...S
......m..m..m..m-8am...d-7pm...m...m
...............8am-D...7pm-m.........
-----------------------------------
Wk2...M..T..W..T.......F.......S...S
......m..m..m..m-8am...d.......d...d-7pm
...............8am-d...............7pm-m

The parent who is ending their period of responsibility shall drive the parties’ son to the other parent’s home.

------------Holiday… Odd years for mom, even years for dad
Marten Luther King day 11 a.m. until 6 p.m.
Memorial Day Weekend Friday after school until Monday at 6 p.m.
July 4 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Easter Saturday 2 p.m. until Sunday at 6 p.m.
Labor Day Weekend Friday after school until Monday at 6 p.m.
Christmas Day and four days after 10 a.m. dec 25 – 10 a.m. Dec 29
New Year’s Day 10 a.m. until 7p.m.

------------Holiday… Odd years for dad, even years for mom
Predisent’s Day 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.
Joe’s Birthday March 12, 11 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Good Friday 10 a.m. – Saturday at 2 p.m.
Joe’s Spring Break Monday at 8 a.m. until Friday at 7 p.m.
Halloween after school (3p.m.) until 8 p.m.
Thanksgiving day 10 a.m. – 7 p.m.
Christmas Eve and Four days after 11 a.m. Dec 20 until 10 a.m. Dec 25
New Year’s Eve 10 a.m. Dec 31 until 10 a.m. Jan 1

------------Additionally:
-- with mother for mother’s birthday, June 2, 10 a.m. until 7 p.m.
-- with mother for Mother’s day, usually the second Sunday in May, 10 a.m. until 7 pm

-- with father for father’s birthday, Jan 2, 10 a.m. until 7 p.m.
-- with father for Father’s day, usually the second Sunday in June, 10 a.m. until 7 pm

------------Summer Vacation
Each parent shall have two (2) uninterrupted, non-consecutive vacation periods. One that is fourteen (14) days in duration and one that is seven (7) days in duration. Each parent shall provide the other parent with written notice of said vacations and an itinerary at least thirty (30) days before the start of said vacation period.

------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------

I want to address some of the things in your posts. I hate brining these things up as I know your H has been very hard on you. I know you feel he is a bad influence on the children and is an alcoholic. But there are some realities you need to face. It’s hard, I know. But it’s what we all have to face when a family falls apart. I am not taking your H’s side here. I’m trying to show you what reality is in our legal system.

RE: I am thinking on the filing... I know it is easy to say file from the outside.. of the situation .. for me it means giving up on my family being together. thanks, H

You know that none of us here suggest anyone file for divorce easily, this is a pro-marriage group. It is being suggested because there are extenuating circumstances… the protection of your children. You say filing for divorce means giving up on your family being together. Your family has not been together for a long while. A divorce can take a long time and does not need to be finalized. But in the meantime it will protect your children and you. You say that filing will be a love buster. You know that you love bust all over the place, choose your love busts wisely. Choose one that will benefit you and your children. If you file it might even get his notice and he might even respect you more for taking an appropriate action and making a strong stand.

RE: well, h still seems to think he can make demands..

And so forth. From the emails going back and forth between the two of you it’s obvious that neither of you is able to negotiate a reasonable visitation schedule. He has as much right to your children as you do. You cannot tell him when he is going to have them and what he is going to do with them. That is the law. I’m not saying that it’s morally correct in light of his behavior and alcoholism. But that’s how things are and he knows it. Unless you go to court and have a custody evaluation and prove his unfitness there is nothing you can do to protect your children from him. If you try to keep them away you will be seen as interfering with his relationship with his children. You could loose custody.

RE: good ideas and thanks. I have been very fair this yr... sharing xmas , holdiays , etc anyway... so what is his issue? fear, control? I

You are not going to like this but since he has as much legal right to the children as you do, he is the one who has been reasonable this year. He has allowed you to have the children most of the time. That is the truth of it. That is how he sees it. Until you get a court ordered visitation schedule that is the situation.

I too agree with Lor that your letter was very controlling. Unless he is doing something illegal with the children he can take them anywhere he wants. You do not have to like it. The courts will not stop him from doing it either. Many people take their children into what you are calling bars. I take my children to restaurants that have bars. While we wait for a table, STL and I get drinks and they get virgin drinks. They think it’s a great treat and no one is harmed. I too would not want my kids at hooters. But if my ex takes my son there, there is nothing I could do about it.

You will loose a bid for supervised visitation based on him taking the kids to Hooters. Making the bid based on his alcoholism will hold up in court.

RE: I dont agree kids belong there. I really do not agree with kids visiting my h during this time

And he thinks it’s fine. And he has as much right to make that decision as you do.

I too feel that you need to control the situation with your children. But you are going about it the wrong way. The only way that will work is to file for divorce and get a court ordered visitation schedule in place. The fact is that neither of you will probably like the final visitation schedule. It will have to be a compromise.

You will also not be able to control if your H takes your children to church. If he has them on a Sunday and he does not want to go to church it’s his decision. He is the father.

RE: I do feel he is getting a lot of leadway all the while giving me NO FINANCIAL support aand being drunk all the time, etc.

Be careful here. Visitation rights are not tied to child support. Your children will need to have a relationship with their father even if he never pays you another penny. They have found that it’s better for a child to have a relationship with a poor parent then to have it severed over support payments. This is all about your children, what they need, not what is fair to you. If/when you go to court do not tie one to the other. It will make you look vindictive.

RE: I guess he wants to hang on and see the kids more to hurt me than his love for them ....

Again careful. He loves them in his own way. I hope your children never hear you say things like this.

RE: he used my os as a slave last weekend.. while he stood there drinking beer... I have no trouble with my son helping out with house and yard work... but doing it all while dad watches with beer in hand? NO

Your son was not being used as a slave. He was doing a chore. Since when is it written that a parent must be working too while a child does a chore? Doing chores will build character for your son. Also be careful about interfering in your H’s relationship with his son.

My step kids do the same thing. They tell their birth mother about how terrible we are because we make them do all the work around the house (what a laugh), we abuse them by not letting them do everything they want and give them everything they want. And birth mom just feeds right into it. Tells them I’m a b!tch etc and that their father does not love them. That their father has took them away from her only to hurt her. She forgets to admit her drug use, her alcoholism, and her comatose episodes that put her in the psycho ward from time to time. I’ve put a stop to a lot of this by telling the kids that if they don’t like it here I’ll buy them tickets to go live with their mom… don’t care what STL says about. I’ll do it. The kids are not stupid… in their heart of hearts they know who their mother is. They turned down the tickets.

If you continue this, your sons will pick up on it and play you and your H against each other. Remember children are in the perfect position to triangulate you and your H. It puts them in a very powerful position. They will control both of you. All kids try this in divorce. It can only be successful if the adults play along.

<small>[ August 31, 2002, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

Honey,

Sweetie listen to Zo, she is a very wise lady.

Remember in TX filing is to get Temporary orders, it is the only way to do so, that does not mean you will be divorced soon. I filed July 2001 & we are still divorced, maybe soon.

We really don't have set visitation but it was because of where STBX lives, if YS was to do Y sports here, it didn't make sense to go to dad's on Fri, so we split wkends, unless something comes up. Holidays, we split in funny ways but so far it works for us.

Even though my STBX loves someone else there is no hatred in our relationship, I think we are co parenting very well. Now if he moves closer that could change.......

Honey, get the breath strips, if your H refuses to use one if you suspect he has been drinking. Document it. I know when I was working in a Pre school, we suspected that a mom had a drinking problem, we found out if we let a child go with her if we thought she had been drinking, we could/would be help libel. She picked up once, & we were not sure but I followed her to the elm school, & the principal there refused to let her have the other child & took the one in the car & called her in laws. There were major illness in the family & we all knew that the mom was having a very hard time dealing with the fact her H was dying.

Honey,

I am going to tackle this from a slightly different perspective (I think)....

Safety and fear. Each contact in behalf of the children and with the children need to be done with the safety of the children as first priority. If you are in fear of their safety and yours then you have the right to request supervised visitation. If he is not giving you child support, work it out legally. Check what rights you have in your area.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. When he wants to tick you off by making a big deal about a stupid thing, then give him more rope to hang himself. He wants the kids for T-day, give him the whole week. But first he needs to give you what it takes to feel safe. Do your homework on what SAFE really means then stick to it.

Don't deal with your H on an emotional level. You have been here a while, it is time to let his emotional attachment go from you but work with him to keep a SAFE relationship going with the kids. From what you have told us, that piece (safe relationship with the kids) won't last long since he is not really putting the kids first anyway. So be a bit patient, give him some rope and then step back and watch him tie his own noose, step in the ring and yank his own chain. When he is completely caught, hanging upside down, unable to get himself out of his mess (aka: hitting bottom), then he 'may' come to you for help and it will be up to you to decide whether you really want him back or not.

First you gotta give him the rope, otherwise he might try to use a piece of flossing thread and do it himself (fogg for rope). LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This will put less blame on you and the onis (ownership/responsibility) on him.

L.

I just wanted to say great advice - from Sing, Zorbweb and Lor and Orchard - These are all smart people trying to give you good advice - take it and do something legal - detach from your husband and make things normal for your children. This is going to work out for the best in the long run. You can only control yourself - Good Luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

thanks to everyone for the friendship and hope. I am still dealing with some retaliation from him.for my lbs.

thanks forthe help. Honey