Dear Lisa:

The Harleys never talk about unconditional love. They in fact say love is conditional. It requires the meeting of needs on both parties. You become an expert on meeting your H's needs and H becomes an expert at meeting yours. So you are not selfish in wanting your needs met (re cycling).

IJMHO, there are many people on this planet we can allow to meet our needs and fall in love with. The decision is to allow that person to. That is what people are telling you to do allow your H to be that person to meet your needs. That is the so called acting you are dealing with. Your H and you both know your love has been effected by both your actions. The decision is to allow each other to meet each others' needs to recover that. This is the decision you both must make.

This is where POJA comes in. At this point things are too raw probably to negotiate at this level; however have you discussed with your H what cycling and friends mean to you as you have expressed here? Have you discussed what your H would need from you to agree cycling is important to you and is in his best interest to allow it to continue? Does it take so much time away from the M as to make it detremental to the M?

I am a champion powerlifter. After marriage and a child I had to curtail this time consuming activity tremendously. I can no longer compete I have had to make a significant change to spend time with W and child. Are there compromises on both sides that would allow cycling and friends but provide protect and time for H? There almost always is with a desire from both parties.

As JL wisely said to you please give it time to work these things out with your H. They are not things that can be negotiated overnight.

I hope I made some sense to you and I pray for both you and your H

All my best

Jack

Hello Jack, I was glad to hear from you. When you post, like so many others here, you always come up with some wise words and thoughts.

I am glad you have said what you have and I understand the fundamental difference - whether H and I can let each other meet our needs or not. At the moment, we are dancing in circles around each other and not getting anywhere fast!

Funnily enough, I started to read the earlier thread of this post. H was adamant at that time that I shouldn't give up cycling, but has since changed his mind - I wonder why, what triggered him? Maybe it was the weekend when he couldn't come with me. I have tried to invovled H (like the weekend). I would happily say, "OK, you don't want to cycle, but come and meet us for lunch at the end and join in".

I want him to meet these people and understand why I like them. He has (in the past) felt some animosity towards them, and they have nothing to do with anything. I think he feels (from what he has said), that they are very different from him, and I am "aspiring" to be in a different league. Silly really, because I knew exactly what and who he was when I married him. The people he thinks I aspire to are not that different from me and what I do. That does not mean I think less of H, but I know, since H and I meet 12 years ago, I am a very different person.

On the positive front, today I felt that I had shifted again. After the desperation and sheer broken feeling of the weekend, something inside me switched. A couple of people have said things to me about OM and the police situation, and I just thought "No more!!! He is getting on with his life, now I will get on with mine", whatever that may entail. Sorry folks, I don't hate him, feel indifferent, but he behaved in such an appalling way that - HE LET ME DOWN. One of my friends said to me "He was a mate, he shouldn't have done that". Do you know what, supposedly he was, and whatever made him do as he did (whether his W prompted it or him), he shouldn't have done that?

I know I will probably have relapses, but a decent person would have thought a little more closely about how their actions would have affected me and H, yes and H. OM had a responsibility in all this mess.

Anyway, I almost felt that physical feeling that a weight had been lifted. I met a friend tonight (H is away), and she said I looked so much better, and I felt it. I feel stronger and more positive than I have in a long time.

I think with all the upset with H, I had forgotten how to take care of me and look after me. I looked in the mirror tonight, and for the first time in ages, there was a glimmer of recognition - I knew the face that looked back at me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I strongly believe that if you don't love yourself (well, I think liking yourself is more important), you can't be a decent or good enough person to anyone else and love or like them in return.

OK, I still don't know about H, but surely this is a good thing......

Lisa

P.S. Nick, where did you find that quote?!?!?

Ooops - tripple post.
Lisa

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Oops - tripple post!

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Hi Lisa,

Glad your better. The quote is from The Oxford Companion to Philosophy! Hobbes is really cool, by the way.
A comment re whether husband is right to object to your cycling. maybe you're right - if he was part of it it would be different. however, whether an activity is associated with OM resp. your betrayal, is not a matter of black & white reality - but a matter of how HE perceives it. Now, you might be totally right in saying that at the end of the day, looking at the facts, there isnt an actual link, but neverteheless, the link exists in your husbands head.
OK, but now's the time to move on. Get him doing some shared recreational activity with you something which you both will like - any ideas what he likes? You guys part of the hunting fishing set? Or maybe a long hike in the lake district or something?

regards,
Nick

ps - got invited to All Blacks vs England; maybe you could get some tickets as a surprise?

Hey Nick

Uh Oh!!! Wrong code - H would never go to a "Ra Ra" game, and would absolutely despise me if I bought tickets for it!!!!! I think it would be worse than the A, well nearly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

No, we're certainly not hunting/fishing type people!! Not "Busy" enough for me. The trouble with H is he doesn't stick to anything. I wouldn't mind hiking, but he would do it once or twice and then no more. We'd end up having a 10 minute stroll in the park - it's just not me.

I know this is going to be a sticking point, and perhaps shows some of my ambivalence towards the situation, but it's not something I do everyday. Once a week on Sundays if that - sometimes every other week. It will also become less during the winter months.

Anyway, still feeling positive this morning about me....

Lisa

Lisa - how are things?
Cant understand your view on the All Blacks. Simply the best around in business, or are they not.