CoffeeMan,

Thanks again for another helpful posting. You are 100% right. He is the poster boy for kindness!! I am especially beating myself up for hurting such a wonderful, gem of a human being. What an idiot I was!

I still feel there is a slight glimmer of hope, thus my screen name. He still 'allows' me to use his name as my emergency contact for work, even though we're divorced. He still has tools and other 'stuff' at our residence. Once he told me he wanted some photos, but I still haven't divided them up, and he hasn't asked again. It is so painful to look through 22 years of stuff. Maybe it's no big deal, but I think if I continue to show him my more 'grown up' self, it will help over time. I realize that it is on God's timeline, and in His hands, not in mine.
Take Care,
Hopeful
"Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got, 'til it's gone."

HP,

It occurred to me after reading your last post that this "picture" issue can be turned into a completely positive experience if you look at it from a different perspective.

Several different things can happen and I will list two that immediately came into my mind.

1. Invite your husband to come over and go through the pictures with you. Instead of being sad about the loss, use the visual images as a way to reinforce all of the wonderful times that the two of you have shared over the years. Express yourself in a non-demanding way and create a new memory with him. It might help to have one of his all time favorite meals planned too.

2. Have him select as many of the photos that he wants and do NOT get upset of they are sentimental to you! Just have him tag each one with some identifyer and tell him that you will allow him to take them after they have all been selected. This can go on for more than one day if you have enough of them. Once he is gone, take the photo's that are the most significant to both of you and have them duplicated. There are machines all over the place now that can scan them in and reproduce them. Then put a book together for him and give it to him as a gift! I'm sure this wil catch him totally off guard and will affect him in ways I couldn't imagine.

Chin up! Things aren't as bad as you think they are.

Thanks, Kily. Your response really made me cry, and you have a great idea! The thought of going through photos together is simply shattering for me, but I'm sure it would be hard for him, too.

I won't bring it up until he does, as I simply couldn't handle it at all. I thank you for the great plan, however.

My work week was crazy, and I am absolutely drained. On the 'up' side, xH did agree to join us for a meal out next week in honor of our youngest one's birthday. This is the first meal the five of us have had alone together since before separation. I won't get my hopes up high, but at least it's something.

Thanks,
Hopeful

H_P

I'm really glad that your xH agreed to join you all for the meal celebrating your youngest BD because it has the potential of being a momentous ocassion as starting point in suplanting all the negative memories he has of you, with positive ones. Not to mention that your children will also benefit from the new memories of good times to come.

Your doing a great job H_P keep it up.

If you tear the wings off a butterfly ... will it fly to you? .... I remember I said this to my WH after Dday. Your dilemma reminded me of my words those many years ago.

You can only do what you can do. You'll just have to let go of the rest ... and pray. If you are a praying person, I found great comfort in the serenity prayer.

I think, my only "advice" is for you to focus your energies on becoming the best person possible. Develop a sense of deep gratitude, look at what you do have, and embrace the gift of each day.

Instead of wishing you could get your husband to return to you and perhaps re-marry you ... become grateful for whatever good things you share. Show gratitude.

Good luck.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Coffeeman,
Thanks for your reply and encouragement. I too was deeply happy that he agreed to this meal of just us 5 people.

Pepper,
Your words are appreciated too. The butterfly analogy is great---and rings devastatingly true. I will take your advice to heart, and I have been doing that for the past few months.(being grateful for what I have, etc._) It is just extremely hard at times as quite frankly the full scope of what I did to everyone didn't hit me until a few months ago. I was very selfish, and that's hard to live with. My pastor told me that divorce is like a death, one has to grieve it. I said, "Yes, but here the difference is that I caused the death." I had a good marriage for many, many years, and I lost it all. I do pray, and thanks for the reminder of the Serenity Prayer.

I read here on another thread that the odds of a divorced couple after a marriage broken up by an A getting remarried are far greater than the two affairees having a successful remarriage. My pastor gave me much hope in that direction, too, in the future. I have to live with the hope of reconciliation, for now. I spent more than 1/2 my life being married to my ExH, and I've known him 29 years. Even though my actions were horrid, I can't let go of him yet.

Thanks for your insights,
H_P

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hopeful_person:
I read here on another thread that the odds of a divorced couple after a marriage broken up by an A getting remarried are far greater than the two affairees having a successful remarriage. My pastor gave me much hope in that direction, too, in the future.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be the case because the truth about each of the xS personality is already a well known quantity and thus when they remarry they do it with their eyes wide open. Contrast that with affairees who have been living in a fantasy world in which each others shortcomings are swept aside, coupled with poor or non existent tools for marital repair to handle the pressures of everyday reality and voila they and the M crash and burn.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to live with the hope of reconciliation, for now. I spent more than 1/2 my life being married to my ExH, and I've known him 29 years. Even though my actions were horrid, I can't let go of him yet.
Thanks for your insights,
H_P</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you think your situation is bad, it could have been worse if you had indeed married your OM. There have been people who did just that and have stated that they are haunted by what they did and how they have not been able to function in their new M. This is the principal reason why BS and WS should not get involved in another R for at least two years after the break up of the M. Since you still can't let go of your love for your xH, the above is very, very relevant indeed. So count your blessings that you did have enough sense to not marry your OM.

Thanks again, Coffeeman. After the OM moved to my area a year ago and I really got to know him in 'real' life, the fog started to lift. (the pitiful A started long distance--only intensified the untrue, fantasy element) Anyway, after he moved here I became completely haunted by memories of my life with my exH and my family. I knew that I couldn't spend the rest of my life w/the OM. He was only a reminder of all the pain and poor choices I'd made, not to mention the complete immorality of it. To top it off, all I could do was compare OM to my exH. My exH was far superior , and a much finer human being. In the end, I didn't like the OM much at all. He was quite the opposite of my exH, and the R was tumultuous and stressful, to say the least. Being with my ExH was always very calming, and the being with the OM was not at all. I stuck it out so long just to 'justify' all that I had lost. Thank goodness that after I ended the R he moved back to where he came from , 600 miles away. All contact is gone, and I'll never run into him around here.

This board has been a tremendous help this last week. It certainly helps to know we're not alone in our struggles. It seems that the media trivializes divorce, like it is no big deal. I have found it to be very devastating. Truly, a nightmare for me.

Continuing to pray for reconciliation here!

Thanks for your insights,

Hopeful

HP,

I need to advise you to go with extreme caution when you get together with your family for this meal. I'm only expressing this to you because of my own disastorous results with this same attempt last weekend. Refer to my latest post for more info on that, I think you've read the details of the fight, but I've updated since then with some restrospective insights.

In my own case, I think it was very painful for all of us to sit together at a dinner table. I sensed that we all wanted to be together, there was just too much unspoken stuff going on for any one of us to relax and enjoy. I'm sorry that the kids had to be witness to that kind of anger between the people that they love. I'm also sad that the people that they love can't let go of their fear and just "be" together. I own that though.

Just something to think about to try and help you avoid some of the pain that could happen.

Good Luck. I'm rooting for you.

Thanks, Kily--I will proceed cautiously. We actually hardly ever fought in front of our kids, ever, and even now we don't fight when we do talk.

Last night I did something kind of desperate. I simply felt like I couldn't handle another day without talking to him. (exH) I called him and asked if I could go talk to him at his place. I'd never done that in the 2 years since we separated. To my amazement, he did say yes. Well actually, before when I'd asked him to talk in person, he said "No." I'd never invited myself there before. We talked for over 2 hours, first of the kids, and then on to 'us'. He is adamant that he's not interested at this point, at all. I am one who cries easily, and I did a lot of it. He didn't, not his way now--used to be, however. I told him I still carried hope, and he kind of laughed. He said that was fine. He said he really doesn't think he should be with anyone, ever. Also, he added that we were a 'poor match'. The saddest thing was that he said that when we were married he had 'stress', and now he had none. Hard to hear---he is rather a loner by nature, and I suppose he is happy being alone, so it seems. I'd known he'd always been rather the anxious type who hides it, but I didn't know I was such a factor. (I think his memory is a bit clouded now, maybe--I asked him why he stayed married so long to me, if he was so upset with me...and he couldn't answer.) He also added that if I had asked him to talk right after DDay--he was so furious he couldn't have come near me.

Bottom line after all this talking. (Let me mention that we wavered between 'serious' stuff and conversation, which he initiated about my daily life...) I told him, naturally, that I felt very 'home' with him, and that I loved him still deeply. I asked him if he felt any love for me at this point. He paused and said, "no". That's understandable, of course. I told him I missed him so much, and I asked if I could call him occasionally to just talk. He told me, "No, that wouldn't be any good." So there you are.

I asked him if the family lunch was still on for Saturday, and he said 'Yes." So that is still a 'go'. At least now I know for sure where I stand. No more silly notions on my part, it just isn't healthy for me. What's amazing still is how good he and I can talk, without getting so angry. Does he think that it's easy to find that kind of relationship with someone?

Again I referred him here- MB-, but that was the only time he showed upset feelings. He said he always disliked that I used to suggest things to read while we were married. (although I remember he , too, used to buy books to read--on marriage , etc...mmmm) He said 'Accept me as I am." I told him , I did...and then I apologized and said that I only offered it as a way to learn, as others had been through it.

Overall, the visit was good for me as I know where I stand. I felt less upset today, and I chose not to involve myself in any 'fantasies' about a reconciliation. Not for now, it just isn't reasonable.

Kily, your situation is a lot like mine. I can see a lot of 'love' in his eyes, as you do in your XBF-- and happiness, but he told me he's like that with everyone. Hard to believe....Oh, he even offered a beverage after the initial 'tears' and heart to heart talking. That, to me, was a bit of progress.

I have gone on so long here, my apologies to all who have taken the time to read it. Thanks for your support-it's immeasurably helpful.

Hopeful

HP,

I think the operative word is that you know where you stand TODAY. Not where you will stand a year or so from now. How long have you been talking to him about reconcilliation? A few months?? How long was the affair affecting your marriage? 4 years??

I think what you are seeing is that he can not fathom that you would want him back, and if you do it is because you are deperate. He has had 4 years to deal with the fact that you didn't love him nor did you want him. He was lied to a good part of that time, so you might imagine that trust isn't very high.

I recall talking to you about the children, and I suspect he is a bit of the bad guy since he left and filed. They don't know the full truth of things either.

I like your attitude that you are in this for the long run, because I think it might be a long run. He hasn't dated in the time of the separation and perhaps he has no strong needs for companionship. I somehow doubt that, I think he is afraid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am sure you scare the daylights out of him, but I think you need to continue to be nice and tell him what you think. Gradually the walls he has erected to protect himself may come down.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bottom line after all this talking. (Let me mention that we wavered between 'serious' stuff and conversation, which he initiated about my daily life...) I told him, naturally, that I felt very 'home' with him, and that I loved him still deeply. I asked him if he felt any love for me at this point. He paused and said, "no".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course he doesn't, it has been a long time since you have paid any attention to him. You will need to do this very slowly. You know his reaction is very much like a WS. In order to deal with what is happening, history must be rewritten and the worst thought about the BS. Normal, very normal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That's understandable, of course. I told him I missed him so much, and I asked if I could call him occasionally to just talk. He told me, "No, that wouldn't be any good." So there you are. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't talk to him about his feelings, but do call him and invite him over when you can. Make it casual and talk about other things as you just did. He is very like very afraid of you. He didn't say not to call, he said he didn't think they would do any good. A vast difference.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I asked him if the family lunch was still on for Saturday, and he said 'Yes." So that is still a 'go'. At least now I know for sure where I stand. No more silly notions on my part, it just isn't healthy for me. What's amazing still is how good he and I can talk, without getting so angry. Does he think that it's easy to find that kind of relationship with someone? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That kind of relationship proved to be very damaging to him and it didn't last. Sadly that is the truth of it. While you kno appreciate this aspect of him, he knows that you didn't appreciate other things about him or the affair wouldn't have happened. I will repeat I will bet that he is too frightened of relationships now. But if he is the kind of man you say he is, some woman will eventually touch his heart. I truely hope that it is you.

One last thing. I realize that you are just out of the fog and you are relieved that the affair is over and you are seeing things clearly. But, the divorce probably really hurt your H. It was the end of the marriage. You see you have some good things happening, the affair being over, but he has not.

I am not trying to lay a guilt trip on you HP. What I want you to do is see this from his side abit so that you don't get easily discouraged as the roller coaster goes up and down.

I believe I have asked you before and I perhaps don't recall your answer, getting older you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But, do you think your children would like to see the marriage renewed? Do they talk with your H? If so given some time and effort they may be the way to get to his heart.

Something for you to consider. I don't mean to use them to manipulate your H. I sense he feels as if he was pressured and controlled during the marriage, hence the mentioning of the stressful situations. It would do you good to understand why he felt stressed while around you even earlier in the marriage. He may have been misreading your words and actions even then. Something to consider.

Well, must go. Good night HP.

God Bless,

JL

JL-
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it very much. I would like to answer your questions...

I actually did talk to him about reconciliation--getting help together-- about six months after separation, in the spring of 2001. He was very angry at me--not at all interested. I was still with OM. (He found out about OM four months after separation.)

The A affected my marriage for a long time, yes...beginning about four years ago, two years before he moved out. It was long distance, silly internet thing--but we did meet up -the OM and I, before separation. What a crazy fool I was, to do this to my life.

You're right, he said that trust is a big issue. I said I understood that--but that in time we could work together. No, I don't think he sees me as desperate. I just see what I've lost, and he was so much to me--for years and years, and I took him for granted.

The kids don't know the full truth, but perhaps they do. They know I had an on-line friendship with OM before separation, and they're pretty perceptive. How low I sunk , to actually meet and attach with this online person! They don't see their dad as the bad guy. Our daughter has said that maybe dad will get over the hurt eventually.

Yes, I am in it for the long run. He hasn't much need for companionship, and I think you're right, he's afraid.


YOu wrote in your reply, JL:

Of course he doesn't, it has been a long time since you have paid any attention to him. You will need to do this very slowly. You know his reaction is very much like a WS. In order to deal with what is happening, history must be rewritten and the worst thought about the BS. Normal, very normal.

Thanks, I hadn't thought of it that way.

I appreciate your advice about inviting him over, just to converse on other things. I don't know if he'd be open to that, either. He seems determined to not talk with me much at all. BTW, he still visits my other family members,(my sibling, Aunt) but they never discuss the divorce, etc. This is how he is, and my family members he visits, too.

Perhaps I didn't explain it well, but it seemed when I asked him if I could call--he said, "No" then he added..."It is no good." I told him I would respect his feelings. He is willing to still do work around here, repair things, but I don't wish to 'use' him that way too much. He seems uncomfortable here at times, like he wants to bolt. It is so , so sad.

You wrote:
One last thing. I realize that you are just out of the fog and you are relieved that the affair is over and you are seeing things clearly. But, the divorce probably really hurt your H. It was the end of the marriage. You see you have some good things happening, the affair being over, but he has not.

Thanks for that, you are one hundred percent correct.

The kids are 19, 16 and 15. They NEVER discuss this stuff with him. All of them would LOVE to see us reconcile, so they've told others, and me. They know I want it too. I don't think they'll ever say anything, they're very quiet about that sort of thing.

Yes, he did misread my actions during the marriage, before the A. He always perceived that I was upset, when I wasn't.

This has gotten long....Thanks again JL for your insight.

Take care,
HP

HP,

Ok, let's review the bidding here a bit. You have on your hands a man who is:

1. Hardheaded. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

2. Very quiet and self-contained.

3. Generally nice to people could even be a "people pleaser".

4. Who is deeply hurt and really doesn't want to show it.

5. Who knows he is vulnerable to you, hence not wanting to talk so has to protect himself, and perhaps you from any angry outbursts.

6. Who very likely would never come back if "just you" ask him because he would be admitting complete and total defeat. You had your fun, you had your fling, and you still had him as well.

What have I missed or miss interpretted??

If that is the case and I suspect it is this will take time. What is the wild card here?
My guess it is the children. If they would like you two together they need to voice this to him. He needs to hear that he is needed by them, that they want them around him, that they love him. He needs to hear that they are proud of them, and he needs to hear that they would like him to reconcile with you.

But, if you want this, I suspect they need to hear from you Why all of this happened. So that they can understand what it would take for your H to swallow his pride and come back or at least reenter their life and yours.

I am not so much recommending this course of action as bringing it up for dicussion with you and hopefully other posters here.

HP, hardheaded men WILL swallow their pride if they are really needed and my guess is that while he may feel you don't really need him (and you probably have actually told him that), he believe that the children do, that two years away from them on a daily basis has hurt them and is hurting them.

Think about this. I look forward to your comments, ideas, and thoughts.

One final thought, your Pastor I feel is correct, that this will take awhile, partly because your H probably feels that since OM is out of the picture you are going back to choice #2. There is little you can do to counter that other than by letting time pass.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

H_P

What are 5 things you feel grateful for today?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks JL and Pepper for your great responses!

I just arrived home from a long workday (very rare that it's that long, I can usually bring things home) and what a blessing to have support and insight from others.

Your six points about my exH are very accurate. I think that the kids might be the wild card, but I don't know if they're willing to help out. They are maybe too young to understand the concept of forgiveness--they maybe see all of the world so black and white (they seem to) so I don't know if they'll support me or not. I really am confused about that..I need to think about it. It might be more harmful to my children--and their future lives, if they know the whole truth. Do you see what I mean? It seems self-centered of me to tell them, since my whole motivation in telling them is to get their dad back here. (I know they'd benefit from him being here though, too.) KNowing my rather quiet kids, they won't want to approach the subject with dad.
(These are all accountant - type minds, no offense to any accountants here--I mean to say, exacting, black and white people. I am more the 'creative' type with linear features, as I like a bit of order , too.) I will think about what you said. The daughter does know that ExH is hurt over the OM I saw during the separation, but I don't think she'd dream that her 'churchy, religious' mother would meet this man (OM) in person before separation.

I do need to make sure they tell him how much they need him, love him, and want him in their lives daily. They're all kind of unexpressive. I am always the first to express my love to my children in spoken ways. In fact, in our family, I always seemed to initiate all conversations.

Our daughter recently began treatment for depression. SHe claimed she'd felt that way for years, but I do think the separation and D made it far worse-- of course! That hasn't motivated the ExH to return, or even think much of a reconciliation. It was diagnosed RIGHT after I broke it off with OM, right BEFORE The D, this summer.

I did tell ExH the other day that I'd read (oops, I brought up 'reading insights' to him, he doesn't like that) that I'd seen here where someone mentioned that BS's need to think logically, too, and not just go with their anger and emotion. He didn't get angry that I said it, he kind of just agreed . But seeing something and acting on it are two different things.

I did tell him I needed him, earlier this summer and last spring, and I told him the other day. I told him I'd always needed him, but that people sometimes lose their way in life. Is that weak sounding, or what? When I told him no one had ever understood me the way he did, he agreed. I told him that no one could ever compare to him, but I realize that words are empty in light of what I did.

Yes, I agree ...my Pastor is right. Time is what is needed.

One thing--sometimes it's really HARD to read here on MB, and see all of the BS's who so want their spouses back. Why didn't mine even try ? He never even said to me, "Drop this silly thing, this dumb A, and let's get help." He moved out without even knowing about the A. That is upsetting to me. I so want to win his love back, but since the OM , and his knowledge of it...he told me the love plummeted to nothing. Do the other BS's here have any insight into that? Why are some so willing to forgive, and others...well, not at all. He told me always before the A that he understood when people forgave spouses for this. He also told me before my A that 'divorce is far worse than cheating.' I feel he gave me very mixed messages, and I told him this the other night. He really kind of just shrugged and said he guessed he didn't know what he was talking about , til it happened.

Pepper- Five things I'm grateful for today
1) The great kids I have, and their overall good health

2) God's forgiveness and understanding, His blessing of shelter, food, and life itself

3) Support of my friends, extended family and this MB site

4) The beauty of nature, music, and art

5) The education I received and because of that the wonderful career I have helping others

Whew! This was long winded. Thanks to anyone who was brave enough to read it. All thoughts and insights are appreciated.

H_P

Hi there!

I posted to you under the topic "Hey Hopeful Person" did you see that?

Hope all goes well for you-

Hi HP,

I've read through your post and I can only send you a hug. I really understand what you are feeling because our situations are different, but the emotions are the same.

I think that JL has really nailed most of it. He is a very wise man!

From what you've written, I get the sense that you are headed in a healthy direction and the only advice that I would offer is to believe in the person that you are. If you really want this, it is going to take so much courage and faith in GOD.

Some reflection:

Your husband, like my XBF, is at a crossroads in his life. He has just gone through an emotional hell and has only now come to a place where he finally has peace. This is only the beginning for them because they have only started on the path to healing. They need to either find a way to forgiveness, or learn how to ignore the pain that has haunted them for so long. They were forced to start a new life and when they finally reached a place where they felt they could begin to rebuild, we both come along and say: "Wait, I love you and I was wrong!" What would your reaction be? I know mine would be "Go to HE!!, you haven't wanted me for two years, why should I listen to YOU when I am finally starting to breathe again. I would feel many conflicting emotions: rage, despair, hatred, bitterness, and on a deeper level happines, relief, and hope.

You, like me, sought out someone else's attention because something was broken. We made choices to compensate for what was wrong in an attempt to change our situations. We gave up on what we had. Our partners, for whatever reason, were not trusted enough to be given the opportunity to help us, and they were forced to change their own lives and dreams. We gave up on ourselves because we did not feel that we could change the relationship that we had with our partners. We lied, we hid, we pretended that no one cared about anything we were going through because it was easier than facing the truth. We believed that the OP was going to carry us off into the sunset and solve all of our problems when in fact, we had our true heroes waiting for us at home.

Our wanting to come back is a very selfish thing. These men have not had choices, and now when they've made their choices, we are again trying to take that away from them. That is why it is imperative that we respect what they feel, and simply try to be their friend. If they allow this, then we are the luckiest women on the earth. In time, they will start to see things differently because the pain will subside and the anger will lessen. When this happens, the better memories will take hold and they will be more open to having your presence in their lives. If you have been consistent and loving during the time that they have chosen to explore their own life they may consider opening a new chapter. Who knows.

Just some of what I'm contemplating today. I don't know if it helped or hurt, but it's what I feel at the moment.

Wow Kily,

You I think understand this whole thing very well. But, that doesn't mean you give up hope. Time in life is very linear, but changes in our life are very nonlinear. I know this sounds spacy but very powerful things can happen very quickly and for very seemingly innocent reasons.

HP you said something I thought I would address.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One thing--sometimes it's really HARD to read here on MB, and see all of the BS's who so want their spouses back.Why didn't mine even try ? He never even said to me, "Drop this silly thing, this dumb A, and let's get help." He moved out without even knowing about the A. That is upsetting to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have asked a very very interesting and powerful question. My guess is that he moved out without knowing about the A because of the way you had treated him. He had come to the conclusion after two years of your A, which he didn't know about, that you didn't love him and in fact hated him. BUT HE DIDN'T KNOW WHY. So it must have been him that you hated soo much.

Ironically, if he had known about the affair he might have fought for you. By the time he found out about the A, he had given up. After all by this time 2 1/2 years had gone by. From his perspective there was nothing to fight for, it was all gone HP. Simply all gone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Kily hit it on the head with her statement about his world being turned upside down and him having to deal with it. He did. First he hung in there, then he left and I doubt that you pursued him, all suggesting that you wanted him out of your life and really hated him. Then he finds out about the A at this point the response was perhaps "it figures". And now he is the mode where he must take care of himself because no one else is going to.

One thing of interest HP is that your exH never dated while separated. It suggests to me that he isn't out for revenge, he isn't out to show you, and that he had a strong respect for the institution of marriage. Meaning he will be very very careful before he comes back or ever remarries.

Your description of him as an accountant type and your children is also interesting. I am not sure what to make of this, but I think you need to realize that just because children, especially teenagers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> don't speak up, it doesn't mean that they aren't thinking. My suggestion is to engage them in discussions about their feelings concerning the divorce. If they could run the world what would they want from you, your exH, and the form of the family. Give them license to engage their imaginations.

But recall that they are teenagers. I have a few of those hanging around my house although soon there will only be one. Communications is a chore. But please understand this, you want them talking to your exH and about all of this because THEY need to. Not just to make you happy. YOu are very correct about this. Yet, you may not be the only one that would wish to see things patched up.

This is tough stuff HP, but it is still sooo early in this situation. I am sure you won't see much progress for 6 months or so, perhaps a year. Your exH has lots of stuff to work through and you need a lengthy track record with him before he starts to trust.

Hang in there HP.

God Bless,

JL

HP,

You probably missed this but Candybars was asking for you. Here is here post Candybars

JL

Kily, Candybar, and JL,
Thanks for your replies. I appreciate all of your words. You are so right, Kily and JL.

I will read your reply, Candybar, in the other spot.

Yes, Kily---you are making me see it much more clearly. JL--Thanks for the advice on the teens...I will encourage them to talk more about their feelings. Your ideas really make sense to me, thanks so much. (the ones too about my exH leaving so willingly..)

Time to go for now, this work week has me completely exhausted. Your support is greatly appreciated.

thanks again,
H_P