</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>One thought I had (from my fundraising world/how do you suck up to people like MIL) is that you should look for articles that will interest her that you can mail with a personal note, such as "I saw this article on blahdeblah (dogs, horses, whatever her hobby is) and thought of you and your good taste in blahdeblah." Maybe it will seem fake/maybe not, but people usually love to be flattered in some personal way and you need to find that way that doesn't involve a comment on WH. Just a thought.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that is a good idea, I did mention to WH that we could use her judgement on some new flooring in the house (since she likes to give advice). I am always seeing things that I know she likes and she has done the same thing for us before, cutting out articles and sending them. I will definitely have to keep my eye on them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>
Through MC/IC my H and I came to realize that my MIL saw my H (her son) as her 'emotional husband', someone who'd never leave her, who'd always be there. She saw me as the OW! That I'd taken him away from her. Bizarre, but true.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have felt the same way at times, especially since her husband is much older, sometimes I have felt like the third wheel, but other times I felt totally accepted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>It is up to the child to decide whether or not the relationship can work. Most importantly, the 'golden' child who can do no wrong needs time, experience and personal growth to realize that what he is being subjected to is not a healthy parent-child form of love.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MIL gives money to WH, I can never see him seeing their relationship as anything but wonderful.

<small>[ October 05, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong>
MIL gives money to WH, I can never see him seeing their relationship as anything but wonderful.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a question...not trying to be offensive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Is your H so fixated/attached to $$$ that he would sacrifice everything he knows is right just for some cash? Is he attached to his mother or her money? Does she control him with money? Does he, a grown man, not feel awkward/badly when he takes the money or does he feel it's his due? Does the IC that your MIL found, not point this out to him? Not trying to be intrusive, just trying to understand your situation more clearly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>
Is your H so fixated/attached to $$$ that he would sacrifice everything he knows is right just for some cash? Is he attached to his mother or her money? Does she control him with money? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is my opinion, you know how there are the Five Languages of Love, one of them "Gifts", I personally believe that that is how his family showed him love. I wouldn't say that she actually controls him with money, but he grew up with a very high standard of living, with a very profitable family business, etc.

We make above average income for ourselves, but he has always wanted to spend money beyond what is reasonable. I don't think anyone ever told him "no" when he ever wanted something. If they did, he could always go to the other grandparents, etc, and get what he wanted. Thats the unfortunate thing about him growing up as an only child and only grandchild (on both sides)!

Also, a couple of years before he was born, his mom had given birth to a stillborn, and I know I can't put myself in those shoes, but I can kinda understand the "protection no matter what" attitude towards WH.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong> Does he, a grown man, not feel awkward/badly when he takes the money or does he feel it's his due? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think that he feels awkward at all about taking money because he probably won't have to pay it back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong> Does the IC that your MIL found, not point this out to him? Not trying to be intrusive, just trying to understand your situation more clearly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I knew the answer to this!! BTW, MIL is paying for his therapy. (this is the same therapist she had during her divorce). I have no idea what they discuss in their sessions, and I haven't asked, I figured that he would tell me when he was ready.

I am concerned with the sessions, especially since I have not seen him in person for over 5 weeks now. I don't know if they are discussing him, or us, or what.

Don't worry, you're not being intrusive!!

I guess the thing that sorta jumped out at me was your statement that no one has ever told him 'NO' and was consistent in that decision. During my 'obsession with reading everything I could about affairs stage', I remember reading something very interesting in the book 'After the Affair' by Janis Abrams Spring. Have you read it? It's excellent. Anyway, one of the situations she discusses are WS that have a sense of entitlement. That the A's or money or whatever are their due...they deserve it, just because they exist. It discussed the behaviour and the psychology behind it, very interesting reading. Unfortunately, I can't recall what she said about the prognosis...sorry.

mgm:

I read that book a few months ago, had it on loan from the library, I will have to check it back out to see what it says, I dont' remember that part of the book!! (But yet again, I have read way to many books)

Just had another thought (you probably figured this one out already <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Your WH really seems to behave in a way that would suggest he expects to find happiness externally, in the form of someone else giving it to him...like money.(there's an interesting correlation!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It doesn't appear to me, from all you've said, that he knows happiness is something we achieve in ourselves, for ourselves and then share with others.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>Your WH really seems to behave in a way that would suggest he expects to find happiness externally, in the form of someone else giving it to him...like money.(there's an interesting correlation!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It doesn't appear to me, from all you've said, that he knows happiness is something we achieve in ourselves, for ourselves and then share with others.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MGM: I think you got it!!! He is the type that lives in the moment, if we feel happy right now, we keep doing it, even if its not our best interest, its human nature.

He has always lived "for the moment". He also has admitted to me several times that when he is depressed, he goes shopping and spends money like crazy.

I do hope that the IC will figure this out and help him with it, I really do.

Your husband seems to have gone very quiet. Strange situation, because he is not seeing you any more.

Perhaps it would have been better to have had that conversation, because you'd know where you stand. The fact that you are not willing to talk to him seems to be keeping him away from coming to see you. This is the state of withdrawal which, as SH states, is worse than the state of conflict arising if you had agreed to listen and talk, however difficult the conversations.

- relate

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Relate,

I avoided the conversation, only becuase I knew I would LB if we would have had it. Steve H understands this as well.

Things have gradually improved slowly, through our email conversations and phone conversations. WH opens up more via email anyway.

It was a huge step to even mention having dinner with MIL, even if it does not happen

by the way, got home from church today and WH had tried to call me, he didn't leave a message

Hi G_C,

hope you had a nice day. (it's almost bedtime here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
Do you have an answering machine? If so, don't forget to speak on it with a very "cheered up" voice. Sound real "positive" on it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And as I have already told you, I love your additude. Don't you dare to "give up!" No matter what the outcome will be. YOU are a fantastic woman. Your life will be positive, believe me.

I'm learning so much from you too! I am learning not to pressure in any way and I'm learning to be "patient". You are a living example for me when it comes to patience. I just hope that your H hurries up abit, before some other guy notices your qualities. You are for sure "unique".

take care and lots of hugs
bb

BB,
wow, I can't believe I could ever be an example to you!! What really helps me is that I really think I know what he is going through. Also, my faith in God has increased tremendously, to where, I have just let go, and let God deal with him, I know that I will be fine, no matter what.

We have voice mail, with the same message on there that was before he left, I haven't changed it.

I know that he went to his best friends surprise bday party last night for a while, he said he couldnt stay there long since MIL was in town. I would be interested if me and him came up as a topic of discussion, I know that he hasn't seen alot of his friends while this has been going on because he knows they don't approve of his actions.

Also today he was going to football game with same buddy, then get back to his mom. He must have called me on the way to the game, looking at the time on the caller ID. I knew this weekend was pretty much out for all of us to go out to dinner.

I didn't ask when she was leaving to go back home so I dont know if the dinner will occur or not. Normally after spending more time with her, he is more reluctant to come back, we will see what happens this time, especially since she is not staying with OW as before.

I'd say it would be a good idea to make some kind of gesture of friendship towards your MIL when she gets back home from the visit, and have a talk with her - maybe even a visit. At some point you would have to express your sincere regrets at the incident where you had to call the police. Let her know that you were quite scared by the situation and it was an instinctive reaction, having no time to think about what to do. You could say it would have been better if you had called her (MIL) to talk to him and calm him down.

I think you should return his call, after some suitable amount of time.

- relate

<small>[ October 07, 2002, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Hi G_C,

well believe me, I am learning from you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I get abit impatient at times, must be the "aries" in me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I tend to do things and then "think". But when I learn something, I really get it.
I learn from my mistakes, so I guess this is something that I can see in myself as positive.
In a way I find that we are quit simular and I really notice that you are making changes.
You also really learn from your mistakes and I really like that.

I am also a person that will not give up, at least not after not trying everything that is possible for me. You too seem to have this quality, how would you otherwise be going through this for such a long period of time. Anyways, I can really feel with you and I really like what I read.
As I said you are a great woman and I would even say that you are what a man would be looking for. Your H is just abit "blind" right now. So don't give up.

If you haven't changed your voicemail how about considering this? It will do no harm. Just make it cheery. Again, this will get your H thinking the next time he calls. Sound your best! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Remember, you are no longer the "old you" and since you have not changed your voicemail, it is the "old you" speaking! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
This is just a suggestion, I find that what/how people talk onto their voicemails leaves a big impression. I love listening to the "cheery" ones, this always gets me smiling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care
bb

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by relate:
<strong>I'd say it would be a good idea to make some kind of gesture of friendship towards your MIL when she gets back home from the visit, and have a talk with her - maybe even a visit. At some point you would have to express your sincere regrets at the incident where you had to call the police. Let her know that you were quite scared by the situation and it was an instinctive reaction, having no time to think about what to do. You could say it would have been better if you had called her (MIL) to talk to him and calm him down.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She lives 16 hours away, so a visit is out of the picture, I have apologized several times, I did not press charges or anything, and there is nothing on a record.

Calling MIL and having her talk to WH would be a huge LB because he would see this as manipulative.

BB: I'm an Aries too!!! I think its a Fire sign (have to check on that), because I have many a time, talked before thinking!!! I have learned to control my speaking (trying to), to where if I don't have anything good to say, say nothing!!!

Yes, I have learned alot of patience through this, just because I truly believe that there is something greater.

I'll think about that Voice Mail change!!

G_C,
I'm just sitting here and I have a big (very big) grin on my face. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I don't really believe in horoscopes and that kinda stuff, but this is strange. Maybe there are sometimes simular behavior patterns when it comes to "zodiac signs". Well aries is a fire sign, so you are right!

The thing that gets to me is, OW is aries too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I don't like that but I'll just hoot an her. I guess I'm just a crunch better than her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyways, enough of that stuff. I'm happy to hear that you seem to be doing fine. You sound very positive from what you write. Good girl and keep that up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I wish, I could just pop into your place, we'd have a ball!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Why not change your voicemail and just give us your number!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Well, that was just a suggestion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> No, don't take me serious!

ok, I have to go. I'm sitting in my office, trying to get my work done. Somehow it just isn't working out all that great today. Oh, well, tomorrow will surely be better.

take care and hugs
bb

I have no idea what sign the OW is, too bad there isn't a zodiac animal named *itch!!!

BTW, MIL is leaving this Thursday, her Birthday is next week.

Should I suggest to WH that I would like to take her out to an early bday dinner and decorate her a cake??

<small>[ October 07, 2002, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

G_C,

I personally don't think I would suggest anything.
He did suggest wanting to go out together with MIL and nothing has happened, this way I wouldn't make any suggestions.
You might consider getting her something nice and wrapping it up. (something small and loving)

I wouldn't suggest going out nor baking a cake, this could be too much. .

The next time you talk to him on the phone you might want to mention the "present" at the end of a conversation just saying that you got it a few days ago and just don't know how to get it over to her because you didn't want to bother him, he might get the feeling of wanting to do this for you. He might make a suggestion. Just wait and see how he reacts.

Just mention the present for his mother and that you don't know how to get it over to her and see what he tells you. If he doesn't say anything about it, then just back off. He might have to think about this on his own. His reaction might come abit later.

I hope this might help you to make your own decision. Whatever you do, I'm sure things will turn out positive.
take care
bb
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yes, a present is about right; and asking him how to deliver it is a good idea. If he fails to come up with an idea, then I'd mail it to her home.

- relate