OK, I screwed up!!!! I called him and asked if it would be ok to take his mom out for early bday, I could tell his irritation on the phone. Why do I do this to myself??

I have thought about getting a small gift, but I think this will make him angrier. He got angry whenever I sent them bday cards and Christmas cards before. I even sent a couple of small gifts with him when he saw her last Christmas. I called her to wish her Merry Christmas and asked if she liked the gifts, by her reaction, I don't think he told her they were from me!!

Dont know where the conversation got twisted, from MIL to WH, or from WH to me, or both, but when WH confronted me about that phone call, it made me look like a witch!!

I was listening to a Marriage Series tape today from my church. The pastor said something very interesting about the Great Expectations in marriage. When someone comes from a home like my WH did, where he got anything he wanted, that is what they expect in life. If they don't get everything they want in a marriage, they assume that is unhappiness, it is the parents position to set boundaries within their children, so they don't set themselves up for early disappointments in life.

You are so right GC. My h was a spoiled little baby... now look!

I know it is hard... with those parents who gave him everything his heart desired and still don't see how bad they screwed up.

Little one needs me... again!

Hugs, Honey

as soon as I can borrow a dual cassette radio from someone, I will have to copy these for you, HOney!!

G_C,

aries are said to be "impulsive" too!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Stay cool G_C.

Ok, you asked him and he seemed confused. I didn't understand the part about you ending up sounding like a witch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Did you want to pick MIL up on a broom??? to take her out for a birthd. meal? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> opps, sorry.

If you'd like to, explain that to me..........

Maybe there is one point that you can learn from. If you feel that you want to ask or talk with your H.
Ask yourself: Am I asking him something that will affect his time? Am I saying something that could get him struggling for an answer?
Am I asking him something that I wish him to agree to?(deep inside.....) If so, this will all sorta be "pressure" for him.

When was your last talk with SH? Maybe you'd consider talking with him, to see what he suggests. I think he has the best advice and it really seemed to "comfort" you. This is not the time for you to get confused. But still don't be too hard on yourself.

But no matter if he's a "spoiled brat" you love this man. I think because he is depending on what his mother has to say, he is sorta falling back into the "little boy syndrom". He needs someone to comfort him and he is still very confused and he still doesn't feel safe on his own.

take care
bb
PS: what's your "voicemail" up to??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>Ok, you asked him and he seemed confused. I didn't understand the part about you ending up sounding like a witch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Did you want to pick MIL up on a broom??? to take her out for a birthd. meal? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> opps, sorry.

If you'd like to, explain that to me.........</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what I meant, is that the conversation I had with his mom on Christmas day (which was just hi, thinking about you, wanted to wish you a merry christmas, hoped you liked your ornaments) got turned around.

When WH confronted me about it, it was almost accusatory, like I called her, and shoved in her face that I got her something, and she did not get me anything, and I wanted to make sure she was aware of that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>Maybe there is one point that you can learn from. If you feel that you want to ask or talk with your H.
Ask yourself: Am I asking him something that will affect his time? Am I saying something that could get him struggling for an answer?
Am I asking him something that I wish him to agree to?(deep inside.....) If so, this will all sorta be "pressure" for him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any recommendations, are you saying that if I feel anything puts pressure, to not ask, that is my gut feeling, just wanted to make sure that was your take. do you thing asking to take his mom for bday dinner is pressure??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>When was your last talk with SH? Maybe you'd consider talking with him, to see what he suggests. I think he has the best advice and it really seemed to "comfort" you. This is not the time for you to get confused. But still don't be too hard on yourself. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I spoke with Steve on Sep 25th, Steve asked me to ask WH again to speak to him, that Steve has "ideas" but to try to pick the right time. My gut feeling is that this should be done in person, I think he would feel too much pressure if I asked now, especially with his mom in town giving him advice. Steve just told me to ask WH to talk with him, that Steve has a plan, and I don't expect anything out of it, but I am pretty sure WH is going to say there is no use in talking that he has made up his mind. Any ideas on choosing the best way to ask and when? Anyone??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>PS: what's your "voicemail" up to???
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">still the same!!

G-C,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any recommendations, are you saying that if I feel anything puts pressure, to not ask, that is my gut feeling, just
wanted to make sure that was your take. do you thing asking to take his mom for bday dinner is pressure?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly, G_C, if you feel that anything would pressure him, back off. Just don't ask.
He already said that he wanted to go out with you and his mother for dinner. It is up to him to make this step, otherwise I'd just back off. Gosh, I know this is frustrating. It's just the way it works at the moment.
You said that he seemed irritated on the phone when you asked him about going out with his mother. Can you describe how he expressed his irritation?
I'm in the middle of cooking so I will answer one question at a time.
take care
bb

G_C,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I spoke with Steve on Sep 25th, Steve asked me to ask WH again to speak to him, that Steve has "ideas" but to try to
pick the right time. My gut feeling is that this should be done in person, I think he would feel too much pressure if I
asked now, especially with his mom in town giving him advice. Steve just told me to ask WH to talk with him, that
Steve has a plan, and I don't expect anything out of it, but I am pretty sure WH is going to say there is no use in
talking that he has made up his mind. Any ideas on choosing the best way to ask and when? Anyone?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JUst give this abit more time. This is definately not the right time to ask him this. I'd still try to talk to SH once again, if you can. It might help abit.

bb

Hi GC -- I'm not following how your recent phone call with WH got turned around (but probably even if you told us, it wouldn't make sense, b/c it seems like anything can get turned around. You can tell them, "good morning isn't is a beautiful day" and somehow that becomes comment from WH like "you know, statements like that are what prove we're incompatible).

If you can, I would try to talk to Steve again or call into the radio show with a specific question. Although, since you just talked to Steve on 9/25 and he told you to be in plan A and take it slowly/not expect overnight changes, I'm not sure there is much to be done. Oh, it is so frustrating.

So, I think we should plan, what fun thing is GC going to do this weekend? Have you ever bought a last minute e-fare and gone to visit family or friends on a quick trip? That can be fun if you can afford the e-fare (they have many for less than $200). Or, do you have a day spa nearby where you could go get a massage and facial and then go for lunch with a friend. Do you have any parks nearby where you could invite a friend to go for a picnic and spend a nice day outside -- something like a regional park an hour or so away, then you'd feel like you were getting away.

Are you volunteering for anything? Sometimes just reaching out to others who are in worse financial situations or personal situations can make you and the people you are serving have a better day.

GC -- More info on the radio program.

Every Monday and Thursday afternoon at 1:00pm (CST) Dr. Harley is the featured guest on Joyce Harley's (his wife's) radio show, In Focus with Joyce Harley, which is aired from St. Paul, Minnesota on AM980 KKMS. Joyce's daily radio program covers a variety of current topics and Monday's topic is marriage.
Talk with Dr. Harley live! Just call toll free 1-888-332-5169 during the live broadcast every Monday and Thursday from 1:00-2:00pm Central Standard Time.

I'll respond to you a little later BB & USH, just wanted to give a quick update.

I asked WH in an email how he was, his comment was:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I am OK, still soul searching, Not sure I have one to find! Just kidding.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Looks like he means he is still sitting on the fence.

Sounds like he feels like he lost his soul.. by doing all these things he doesn't believe in, in his heart of hearts..

I bet he feels like a slime who doesn't deserve you... sorry for the slimy pic...

But I do know my ws, has LOW SELF ESTEEM... lower than I have ever seen it.... that is part of where all this anger comes from.. hating themselves.

Hugs... I am going to dinner with my parents.. wish me luck! We usually get along, but I have had a bad day... oh well, I will plan a them.. starting to be good at it... and they are usually nice... back... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>
You said that he seemed irritated on the phone when you asked him about going out with his mother. Can you describe how he expressed his irritation? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was the tone in his voice, the tone of annoyance, thats how I could tell. I wonder if he even mentioned it to his mom. In a way, it may be better that we didn't do dinner. It has been 6weeks since I have seen him in person, that is definitely the longest. Its probably for the best that we see each other alone. Also, if he did mention it to his mom, I wonder what her reaction was?? I wonder if she feels guilt and wants to avoid conflict because of her enabling of the affair??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>JUst give this abit more time. This is definately not the right time to ask him this. I'd still try to talk to SH once again, if you can. It might help abit.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanted to wait until WH spoke to Steve (if he ever will), bacause I have a feeling Steve will say the same thing to me. I do have to focus on the positive, he is not living with her anymore. He has chosen to get a job away from her, etc. I think the best time for me to bring up talking to SH is when he initiates any type of relationship talk, else he will think I am pushing him if I start it, does that make sense??

USH:

Its tough for me to just pick up and leave or I would come drag you, Blondblossom, Honey, mgm, Orchid, maw64 and everyone else with me to an awesome all-inclusive resort!!

No really, we have animals, and would have to have them boarded, etc. Plus, I work so much during the week, the weekends are so relaxing!! Just started up a new Sunday School class in church, hopefully meet some new people, etc.

Does Steve mind that you call into the show?? Especially if you are currently in counseling?? I will have to check it out on Thursday.

Honey:
WH admitted to me during his fog slip that he had a very low self esteem, I never knew that. I am trying to build him up and let him believe that he is the person that I loved and married, not the person he is now (I don't say that part). I have that thick cotton on my tongue, trying to not be critical, etc!!

I need ideas on a Plan A care package!! WH will be coming by on Thursday to pick up his mail after taking his mom to the airport that morning, all he said was "early" so I have no idea if I will be at work yet or not.

I am thinking about putting together a little care package for him, he loves sugar cookies with homemade icing. And maybe a few of his favorite snacks? Maybe a toiletry care package? I want to make him something that will make him smile but not be too pushy??

Ideas??

Did I read the words "all-inclusive" and resort in here??? Count me in! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm first in line for a fruity alcoholic beverage with the little umbrellas (for those of you who do not imbibe...I'll make the sacrifice and have yours too!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ).

Anyway, back to plan A. I really think that cookies or anything like that will look contrived...like you are trying to hard or pressuring him. It could backfire and end up being an inadvertent LB. I think that if you are home a friendly 'hello', 'how's it going?' is better. If you aren't home, then call after/email after asking if he got his stuff and ask then how it's going. Keep it light. No hint of ulterior motives or hidden agendas.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>Did I read the words "all-inclusive" and resort in here??? Count me in! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm first in line for a fruity alcoholic beverage with the little umbrellas (for those of you who do not imbibe...I'll make the sacrifice and have yours too!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh no you don't, I'm all over my pina coladas and strawberri daquiris!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>Anyway, back to plan A. I really think that cookies or anything like that will look contrived...like you are trying to hard or pressuring him. It could backfire and end up being an inadvertent LB</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have done this a couple of times and he loves it!! I don't think anyone could love these cookies like him, he's like a little kid in a candy store, he absolutely craves them!! So, I don't think it will be an LB towards him, but maybe just a little taste of what hes missing!!

GC,

Leave the cookies on the table. Let him reach out for them. Let him do some of the work...... A tempting treat, leave him wondering why they are set out there so inviting looking. If he likes them as much as you say, it should be hard for him to resist. Good. You want him to want it...... you want him to miss it, then you want him to feel the same for you. So don't pack it up for unless he asks. Let him learn to ask. If he doesn't mail them to me.... I love sugar cookies!!!! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Ok, didn't know that sugar cookies were like kryptonite to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (make him weak and all... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )In that case I agree with Orchid...leave them out and make him reach for one, make him ask if he wants to take some to his place. Notice I didn't say take some 'home', because his home is with you girlfriend!!

<small>[ October 09, 2002, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

Hi G_C,

could you give me your email address? I wanted to email you privately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
take care
bb