I just received a call from two women that I work with that happened to run into my WH in a town 7 hours from here last Friday night. They confirmed that they saw WH and OW walking arm and arm/cozy into a liquor store. The two women were in the store buying wine for a dinner party and OM and OW walked almost right into them. As soon as OW saw them she bolted to another part of the store. WH tried to cover it up by telling these two women that he and OW had been at a conference and were just picking up a few things. What?!?

Now, I know that is all complete and utter bull#@$ because 1) WH told me OW was not going the conference (which was on Thursday and early Friday a.m.) and 2) WH was supposedly in the wilderness alone for his 40th birthday because he "couldn't handle celebrating that day" and wanted to be alone.

Folks, it's been nine months of plan A (7 months of a really good plan A). I am really ready to go to plan B. My lovebank is almost completely empty after this. It has been a series of ever more complex lies and I have spent the last 3 months feeling really sorry for him and his depression.

I am supposed to be in a meeting on Wednesday with WH and OW. I told my boss I'd rather be covered in honey and set out in a field of fire ants. I will not do it.

I am devastated. I left work and went for a hard run and it didn't help.

I am seriously thinking about ordering the grandedoodoo from dogppoop.com where they send a big fake/realistic warm yucky dog mess and having these delivered to both WH and OW at work. If I could, I'd love to arrange it to be delivered in the middle of a meeting. I am really angry -- I think angrier than I was the first d-day.

I feel like a complete idiot. I just want to leave and get the heck out of here.

Going crazy -- I hope you see this. I would like to have more insight into why Steve H. thinks staying in plan A with an ongoing A this long (which is the case for both of us) is a good idea?

I feel really misled and deceived -- more so than first d-day. WH seemed to be more receptive/initiating spending more time together. Calling every day. Talking about going to a cabin. It just seems very surreal, but I guess others have had the same experience.

I'm calmer this time, but feel more yanked around this time because it seemed like WH was noticing changes/plan A. I know planA is not intended to end the A and I really was surprised when it appeared contact of the PA kind had ended. I knew the chances were high of this starting again because they work in a very small office/5 people and see eachother every day.

WH called this morning like nothing was out of the ordinary when he came back from his supposed "wilderness weekend". I cannot imagine that he didn't think these women would mention seeing WH in a liquor store in a far off town with the OW. Does he think he's that smooth or what?!?

I am feeling like doing something crazy and I'm trying to stay calm. Lord give me yet another level of patience and understanding. I'm trying I really am trying (although sending the dogdoo is still appealing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
A ended but no commitment July progress?

<small>[ October 15, 2002, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: unsureheart ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>Going crazy -- I hope you see this. I would like to have more insight into why Steve H. thinks staying in plan A with an ongoing A this long (which is the case for both of us) is a good idea?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The reason Steve still has me in Plan A is because we have no children, he is dead set against me going to Plan B (as of now). Sometimes I feel like I am enabling the cakeman. I try to treat him like a friend, however no SF, which he hasn't tried anyway.

I'm not for sure when or if I ever go to a full Plan B what circumstances would need to occur. Perhaps when my LB$ has gotten so low and I want to LB him all them. I too, have proof that WH is still in contact with OW and I hate it.

I really wonder sometimes what the point is, of me staying in Plan A, however I just found MB principles back in late April, so its been only 5 months, before that I did alot of LBing, pleading, and nagging.

Please don't do anything you may regret later while you are angry. Remember, you are the big person here, you are the one with integrity, DO NOT LET THEM BRING YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL!!

By you reacting, that is exactly what the OW wants, she wants to see a reaction out of you.

I can't remember, who are you counseling with, a local counselor, or the Harley's??

I am so sorry this has happened, does he suspect you know??

Also, I did not realize all of you worked for the same company, tough!!

Keep posting, vent here, email me at mb_going_crazy@hotmail.com if you want.

(((((Unsureheart)))))

Thanks GC -- I really will try not to do anything crazy. Yes, he does know that I know. I'm sure it's an LB, but I called and just left a simple, not angry sounding voicemail "I will not continue to be played for a fool" and that's it. Dumb probably, but he swore up and down that he was going off by himself for his birthday.

I knew I would have to see OW this week and so I told him that the therapist had suggested I call her in advance of the meeting (we don't work for the same organization -- I work for a foundation and they work for an organization that request money from us/weird I know) and just let her know I had no hard feelings/need to be professional yadayadayada. I told WH I didn't really feel comfortable doing that. WH then said, "no, no need to call her, I'll have somebody else go to the meeting". I received an email from her the next day saying she was coming to the meeting, so I just figured that WH hadn't said anything to her and I'd just leave it alone. My thoughts were along the lines of -- ok, she ended this thing and it's been 5 months, so I'll be a "big" person and not make a big deal out of this.

I then asked WH if OW was attending this conference he was at last Thursday and Friday before his trip. He said, "no, she's not, I'm just giving a presentation, no reason for other staff to attend".

He called on Friday to tell me what trail he'd be taking and when to start worrying about him if he hadn't checked in. He then went through a checklist of what he wanted to be sure I had on my camping trip since it might snow (which it did). I left on my trip Friday thinking, that's considerate of him to check in with me. He ended the conversation by saying that he would talk to me on Monday/he was headed to the trailhead.

What a joke. He was headed to another town with the OW. He called today to tell me that he was "out of the woods" and that he'd call later tonight to let me know where he would be -- either at the friends cabin or back at his apartment.

After I got the call, I left that simple voice mail message. My lovebank was completely empty and I feel a general sense of emptiness right now. I don't think I want somebody in my life that is capable of this level of deception and allowing me to continue to worry about him. I put a short/I think you are a great person/ I believe in you birthday card in the tent sack so he would open it up when he went camping. I doubt he went camping or saw the birthday wishes.

I am so sad. I really do not know how I am going to do my job. All three of my major projects involve his organization. My boss will have to take them I guess. I just don't have the will to continue doing this job that I worked so hard for anymore. I don't want to be in this house. It feels like a prison right now.

God is leading me toward being not vindictive. My first thoughts were to call the regional director and get them both fired. I was that angry, but I realized that would not accomplish anything. I'm frankly not sure what will accomplish anything right now.

Dear Unsureheart, I am so sorry you have to go thought this. I can understand just how you are feeling. Like you I too felt that my fWH and I were doing so well. He told me he ended all contact with the ow after d-day. That he would never see her again, and then three months later I found him at her house at 3am when he had told me he was working. I felt numb, I was in shock and surprised that I didn't even cry. I was very proud of myself because I wanted so much to bang the door down and just hit the both of them, I was just so angry, but I didn't do that. What I did was leave a note in his car telling him that I had been there and that I was going home to pack up all his things and call a lawyer. Her house was over 60 miles from ours so I had over an hour ride home. Just before I got home he called my cell, he had just gotten my note and he begged me on the phone to wait until he got home before I did anything. It took another two months and my finally telling him that I didn't think I was in love with him anymore and that if he left I wouldn't even care, for him to really end all contact with the ow. We started MC and really working on the troubles in our marriage. I know that right now your felling like you have been kicked in the gut and your very confused about what to do. I know I felt like such an idiot for believing my H and for a long time I wasn't even sure why I was letting him stay. I just kept asking myself how could he do this to me over and over again. I really can't tell you what to do, that is up to you, but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. You have to do what you feel is best for you, remember plan A is more for you then for him. Take care of yourself and know that I will pray for you. ellyn

Thanks ellyn -- I know there are other here that have been through the same baloney. I think I really don't know what's right for me right now. I'm sad that he hasn't called. In the past he would have called by now, but I think he knows he really blew it this time and probably doesn't know what to say. I need to just not talk to him for a bit I think. I'm too emotional right now.

unsureheart,

I am sorry to hear what you are going through. Your husband sounds like a cakeman.

There comes a time when Plan A becomes a life style, where it does no further good. The purpose of Plan A is to negotiate the end of the affair and marital recovery. Neither has happened after your long Plan A. Your love bank is almost empty. IMHO, it’s very reasonable for you to move to Plan B at this time.

Telling your husband that you know how he spent the weekend and that it hurt you is not a love buster. It is a must. But it must be done without love busting (yelling, screaming, disrespectful judgment). If you don’t express this, he will think that you are ok with it.

RE: “God is leading me toward being not vindictive. My first thoughts were to call the regional director and get them both fired. I was that angry, but I realized that would not accomplish anything. I'm frankly not sure what will accomplish anything right now. “

It’s my understanding that Harley suggests blowing the affair wide open, making it public knowledge. This puts the pressure on both of them, often ending the affair sooner. If it gets them fired, oh well. It may very well accomplish something.

Most of all, you need to look out for yourself right now. This has gone on far too long and it is affecting your lively hood. Could you look for a new job so that at least you don’t have to deal with the emotional over load on a daily basis?

IMHO, if there is any hope for your marriage, he has to know that he is loosing you over this. That you will not placate him any longer.

that has to be so tough, working with them, I truly feel for you

did he mention your upcoming "talk"?

I think he must be completely out of it. He called tonight while I was in the bath and said "Hi, USH, just checking in. I'm on my way back to XX and should be at the apt. in a couple of hours. See you" No mention of the voice mail I left earlier and acting like everything is normal (well as normal as it has been/not really normal as before pre-A).

Zorweb -- I have heard such conflicting things about having the BS tell employers. It seems that is a way to get it out in the open, but would be such an LB that I don't think WS would ever get over it. I definitely feel ready to go to plan B for me because I just don't feel capable of dealing with the roller coaster anymore. However, Steve Harley's advice to others, such as going crazy and seahorse, is to stay in plan A as long as possible because without children, there is more likelihood for "out of sight, out of mind". So, I will wait and see how I am doing tomorrow to figure out how I feel/what I want to do.

GC -- Working with them has been sheer hell and I cannot fathom how either one thinks this is an ok situation. It truly makes me question whether WH is somebody I could ever trust again. It's not only our marriage he is destroying, but the other 75% of my waking life.

I can't sleep. I feel like I am back at ground zero again. Restless. Sad. Angry. Unclear on the future/even the immediate future/tomorrow.

Hi USH, I'm so sorry. I know how this feels. Its devastating. Please allow yourself some time before you do anything. Because you have been so badly hurt and deceived the actions you take now may not be the best and you may regret it later.

I am talking to Steve H this Friday night. I will be back on here and tell you what he said, it may or may not help but I think we pick up bits from everywhere. He did want me back in plan A for the same reason as GC. IMHO and in hindsight, it would have been better for me just to back off from him and take a little break rather than go to the fully fledge plan B thingy (with bells, whistles and letters).

I know this is hurting, take care of you for a little while. Try not to act out in hurt and anger, its not you, you are very gentle and caring and I know you will regret it later. Try a massage or a facial and keep the exercise up. You can do it and eventually you will feel in control of you again. I do believe honesty is the best way, tell him you know, tell him you won't be fooled again.

USH, I know myself, everytime something like this happens I realise more and more that I've got to live the way I need to to look after myself. Its not about cutting H out of my life yet, its about taking care of me so I don't end up in the siutation again. I think the reason for plan B not suiting me was that I still have things to learn - ie how not to LB, and I was still very much in love. Plan B won't work unless your really out of love.

I feel like I'm enabling A (and I will be asking Steve about this, don't you worry), but after each interaction I feel better and better about myself and more sorry for WH. Why? because I have a plan, he has a sorry mess. I know this year for me is about surviving and learning, everythings so raw, its about emotions and listening to yourself.

USH, if you really love your job, and it sound like you do, could you find a way to deal with this so that you don't have to give it up? Can your boss help you out here?

Please take a little time to get over this shock. Don't send the doggydoo, although the thought is amusing and I have plenty over here you could have (it'd be real rotten by the time it got to the US <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Unsureheart,

You are right that telling his employer could back fire if it can be traced back to you. It’s a call you have to make. Just wanted to let you know that telling is sometimes the right thing to do.

I understand what you are saying about going to plan B. It’s a scary thing to do. I like the idea of your just backing off, taking more care of yourself and starting to do more for yourself. Someone has to take care of you. Right now that’s you.

Have you seen the 180 concept used by www.divorcebusters.com? It seems to help people get a healthy detachment from a situation. And it can help get the WS’s attention.

Seahorse, Ellyn, Going Crazy, and Zorweb -- I really appreciate your taking the time to give me your thoughts. Last night was rough. Today hasn't been much better.

I feel eerily calm, but having periodic points in the day where I just break down crying because I feel sad for the deception and sad for failing. I just feel like I failed at marriage. I know that is not rational, but it's how I feel.

What to do now I don't know. WH has not tried to call or email again since his breezy, I'm driving back to apt. phone message last night.

I worked out hard again tonight with weights and a run. It calms me down for a bit, but it doesn't last. I then have to do something such as cleaning or a computer game in an attempt to make my mind go blank and not obsess about all of this.

I am praying that I will find guidance in this. It's just so hard. I am too embarrassed to tell anyone about this because they all know how hard I have been trying for the last nine months and know what WH has put me through. I just don't want to hear "dump him" or "I told you so" right now.

I have always been a really strong person that others turn to in times of need and I feel completely helpless right now. My parents called and asked about Thanksgiving and I told them I didn't know what my plans were. They know we are separated and that there are problems, but they do not know about the A. My dad has been having significant health problems and my mom is consumed with that and I just don't want to burden them with this, but I really want to see them and I need the comfort of some loving family. I wish my nieces and nephews were nearby.

I know exactly how you feel about sharing your personal life with others, coworkers and family.

I always get the suspicion that people at work are talking about me, sometimes they are whispering and I walk up, their conversations change, I leave, then back to whispering.

I also cannot talk to my family about it.

I blame myself because when I first found out I was so angry I told everyone, I wish I hadn't. I am so sick of people asking me how I'm doing or an update, when I know some of those really don't care but have nothing else to talk about.

that is why I love to post here, because I know there are so many others in the same position, including yourself. I just hate to give up and throw away all of my waiting for nothing.

I hope and pray that both of our husbands wake up soon, it is really getting tough on both of us.

Thanks GC -- I'm going to try and go to bed soon. I have an early morning and it's supposed to snow early a.m. I wish there were a way to post an audio message to you and Seahorse right now. There is a great song by a jazz/blues singer (and I cannot remember her name)that goes something like "I gave you sugar, you gave me dirt, I gave you honey, you gave me hurt" I love this song and sing it out loud when I'm feeling particularly low.

Take care. I'll catch up with you tomorrow.

need to go to bed soon myself, finishing up the West Wing that I taped last week before tomorrow.

I hope things get better for you. Think positive, ok?

Unsure,
Just read your post. I am SOOO sorry! I wish I was there to give you a huge HUG! If you need a personal shoulder to cry on you can e-mail me at shaundapq@yahoo.com. Sometimes it's easier to say what you need to get it out and know that one one person is reading it. My care and prayers are with you!

Dear UH,

I admire the fact that despite all this junk, you are still able to attend a meeting with the OW of all people!

U are truly a lady with grace and dignity. The OW is a scumbag and pales in comparison to you. In your time of need you reached out to ask about another MBer. You are truly a giving person.

I have briefly read this thread and feel for your situation. I put my H on the spot and made it his responsibility to convince me it was over. Periodically I let him know when I feel insecure. His job is to make me feel better. Now it just takes a look or a hm.....

I hope your H appreciates you. He should, he better.... LOL!! We do.

It hurts when renewed contact is done. It feels like d/d all over again. But you will find that your tolerance level is much lower, for me after a while there wasn't much more they could do to hurt me, in fact what they were doing was soooo stupid that I laughed right in his face. I told him that both of their manipulation efforts were poor and they needed to sharpen their A skills since I could even predict their next move. Burst that A bubble!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Please let us know how you are doing tomorrow (or today depending on where you are located - I'm still in CA and it is 11:21pm).

take care,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel eerily calm, but having periodic points in the day where I just break down crying because I feel sad for the deception and sad for failing. I just feel like I failed at marriage. I know that is not rational, but it's how I feel.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear USH, please know that we understand this, but also remember that when I felt like this you pointed out all the things I had done not to fail. This is a rough blow, but think about what you have learnt from this and from what I've read you have been a true friend to your husband. He could not have asked for more and you could not have done more.

Its not fun at all and its no consolation but you have learnt something valuable from this and you need now to incorporate that in all your dealings and decisions regarding you and your H.

There is a book I am reading called "The journey from abandonment to healing" by Susan Anderson, she also has a website www.abandonmentrecovery.com It is a very good book and even though our M's are not over, it still deals with some of the issues so relevant to us. GC might like this one too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am praying that I will find guidance in this. It's just so hard. I am too embarrassed to tell anyone about this because they all know how hard I have been trying for the last nine months and know what WH has put me through. I just don't want to hear "dump him" or "I told you so" right now.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, understand that all right. I don't update too many people anymore, just say "nothing's changed". They say these things because they don't know what to advise you to do, they don't realise all you want to do is vent. Jeez, last week I went to the work counsellor, she told me I should follow H and OW and spring them together, then I should start a blazing argument and hey presto, I will be so angry I'll be out of love. Then I start flirting with other men and have a couple of flings. Problem solved. I realised this counsellor has nothing left to offer me, she does not know what I should do, so she is offering anything. Its harder now because I have fewer people to talk to about it. I did what GC did and told nearly everyone, except at work where I've done the opposite and told noone. I've suffered the same reception as GC, but I just ignore it. I guess its human nature and is no reflection on me. Trying to save your marriage should not make you feel embarrassed. I'm appalled by the number of people who treat marriage as disposable - why bother getting married if you're not going to make the effort to work at it?

USH come here to vent or journal, or is there a crisis line in your state you could call. Sometimes its nice to talk to someone. Try that book I recommended it goes through the whole process of the breakup and how you subsequently feel and may process things. Then it gives you an action plan to follow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have always been a really strong person that others turn to in times of need and I feel completely helpless right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its ok to feel that way, just go with it it will pass. The next time someone needs you you will be even more compassionate and strong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is a great song by a jazz/blues singer (and I cannot remember her name)that goes something like "I gave you sugar, you gave me dirt, I gave you honey, you gave me hurt" I love this song and sing it out loud when I'm feeling particularly low.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm imagining you as this beautiful woman in a smokey bar in an electric blue satin dress (with spagetti straps), and she's singing soulfully into the microphone....I imagine there's a bottle of port there somewhere too (God I hope so!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Look after yourself USH, just be gentle on yourself right now.

Hi unsure...

Just getting caught up on your latest and I have to say I am sooooo sorry.

I know exactly how you feel.

After a number of months when my WW was through seeing OM, and we went thru what turned out to be a false recovery...I found out they were seeing each other again...I don't think I have ever been so hurt and disappointed.

That was this past Feb. and though I didn't know then how I would get thru it---you know what?--I did. One foot in front of the other; one day at a time. I know that sounds trite but it really is the only way you can do it and you CAN do this...you have shown a great deal of strength to get you this far and somewhere you will find the strength to continue.

My WW's A finally ended shortly after rekindling in Feb...March I think and, while it wasn't the exact ending I had hoped for...OM cut it off...I am pretty sure it is over.

My WW is still trying to figure things out but things have gotten at least a tiny bit better since Feb.

I know it is hard, esp when OW works with your H but I guess I would encourage you to hang in there and see what happens.

I do think you need to call your H on the carpet though and tell him what you know and see how he reacts.

As for other people---to he!! with what they think. I am the same as you...I just don't want to talk about all this with my friends and family... I lean on them to get me to focus on other stuff--good stuff that takes my mind off the situation.

The workouts: weights, running, biking...I do all that, too and while it can be a small distraction, it seems like it never lasts long enough. But the good part about that is that it says you are still taking care of yourself and that's good.

Maybe for awhile you just need to continue to focus on yourself...I know you said you read MWD and Divorce Busting...so I know you have those concepts if you need them.

Take care USH...

Lots of us are/have been in the same situation and can relate and while it may not "fix" things for you, you can be sure we are all pulling for you to make it through all this.

E

Sorry to see you struggling in a downturn, USH. But yet again, your story exactly proves the point of NC, NC letter, and not accepting any bull with regard to why there needs to be some contact (like, work reasons). If your WH is serious at some point of sticking to you, then he HAS to move jobs (unless OW does it). The temptations will just be too strong for both of them.
Are you thinking of plan B?

(((((USH)))))

hope your day gets a little better, one day at a time, think positive, don't worry, worry is a waste of your imagination. I will definitely have to check out that website this evening that Seahorse mentioned.

Seahorse is right, we should not have to be embarrassed about what the world thinks of us wanting to save our marriage. People just do not know until they have been in the same situation. If I was standing outside of myself, and this was a good friend going through it, I would probably think she is crazy for loving him, and tell her to move on.

I am so thankful for the very few people (away from MB) that understand and help me thru it.

Speaking from the standpoint of others opinions, I really thought about why Steve wants us to stay in Plan A as long as we have any love left.

Heres my analysis on a typical conversation that may occur between myself and another person, then WH and another person. There are two scenarios, the first if we had children, the second with us not, which is our situation.

Scenario #1: "If" we had kids:

Friend: How are things going?
Me: Nothing has really changed, etc
Friend: I admire what you are doing for the children, they really need to grow up with two parents.

Friend: How are things?
WH: I'm not sure we can work it out.
Friend: "what about the children?

Scenario #2: no kids (our situation)

Friend: How are things going?
Me: Nothing has really changed, etc
Friend: Well, at least you don't have kids.

Friend: How are things?
WH: I'm not sure we can work it out.
Friend: Well, at least you don't have kids.

See how the world's response is. My WH is always telling me he does not know what to do, seeks advice from his new friends, and this is most likely the answer he gets. this is why I think it is important for our Plan A