2Long,
I understand that this worked for you as it does some others.
There is a differance betwwen men and women, however. Theres' a little more of the chase the woman instinct for a man and women seem to fall for lots of attention. I have been married three times and seen alot of relationships and feel that most men are turned totally off when their spouse is a sweet and loving doormat. Many men say this is what they need and want, but look around these posts. They tend to fall for a strong minded woman-not nessesarily independant, but who will not put up with much. But look at what you put up with-your a man. Your wife fell for the plan A thing.

So many women here can plan A themselves to death and be disappointed as the ex marries a xxxxx.
From what I understand, Lost has been plan Aing and still being lied to and misused.
It's maybe time to try something differant here.
I do not suggest mudwresting with OW, but something that will validate her feelings and get rid of the intimidation and fear caused by all of this-something that may stun her husband and make him look at her a little differantly . If she just stays where she is at, what does he think-good old faithful thats always predictably there for him.

Remember, there ARE gender differances here. Men tent to like to pursue and women like the stongest pursuer-or if they are disfunctional-the one that beats and cheats.

Oh I can just FEEL the bashing that is about to come at me!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

ezra,

I am so afraid that my H will leave. I stopped working because H wanted me to be a stay at home Mom and look what has happened. H actually told me the 1st time that he wanted to leave 2 days after I was layed off. I think he was already having the A when he told me that. But me being the fool that I am I had no clue. H swears that the A ended in between Dec 01/Jan 02, but my d-day was 03-21-02. Can H really be in love with ow???

I will find out tonight.........

lost

Lost,
I feel very badly for your situation.
In answer to your question, your husband could FEEL he is in love with OW.
There are several points in your favor.
1 Affairs don't usually work out.
2 He is married to you-you have a history together.
3 You have children together
4 You are not working (he would maybe feel more guilty about leaving

Love and life is not always fair and doesn't make sense sometimes. I know that the others say plan A. Plan A is alright if you keep your dignity intact. What I mean is, your posts sound as though you are desperate to keep him at almost any cost. Think about it and recall how this attitude affects your husband. Does he respond well? What did you act like in the beginning of your relationship or when he was happiest with you? You may have to out mistress the OW meaning she probably isn't begging him to much-ofcourse I could be wrong.
If he had a sexual affair with her he has a sinful bond with her. You need to figure out how to break it.
Usually when a WS sees that the BS is not as needy as they used to be-THEY TAKE NOTICE. As long as he knows you are willing to keep him at almost any cost,he doesn't need to be to concerned. He may be more concerned if the other woman is , for instance, flirting with other men at work in front of him. HE NEEDS TO CHANGE JOBS NO MATTER WHAT THE COST.
I would strongly suggest you read the book by Dr. James Dobson called "Love Must Be Tough".
I know you are very worried right now, but but it will not help you situation for him to see your self confidance down, and it isn't helping you either.
I can't tell you what your husband is going to do-but use the ability God gave you as a woman. To seduce a man , a woman has to feel that she is very beautiful, and be confidant and alluring.
If your husband hasn't made you feel this way lately ask God-he made you that way-AND HE'S THE BOSS SO BELIEVE HIM!
Keep the faith and pray alot, post on the Wednesday prayer chain. I have had an amazing week and feel so great!
But again-read that book. Plan aA works alot, but men are sometimes more mysterious creatures than we women give them credit for. When you think that you have given them what they said that they needed-they change the needs!
I don't know why,its like they would really prefer to have to wonder if you love them half the time than actually know it.THE GAMES OF LOVE!!??
Keep us posted and I be praying somemore for you I promise. CHIN UP! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ezra:

No bashing from ol' 2long. Nosirree.

You make some very good points that I can "see" aspects of in my W and Rat Meat. He's a persuer, even though she would have said otherwise.

I don't know about lost's sitch at this time, though. She has legitimate concerns, I believe, but I can't say that confronting the OW versus her H will accomplish what she hopes. It's usually advised against.

ezra/2long,

Well everything did not go as I expected last night. But I did tell my H that he had to decided to either stay her at home and work on our M, because I was not going to let him stay at home just for the kids. I told H that I wanted to save our M and I was going to fight for our M. I told him that I did not want him to leave but if he chose to then that was his decision. I told H I was very sorry for my part in the situation but I was willing to try and make things better. I told him that I did not want him to be unhappy but I also do not deserve to be unhappy. I told H that he couldn't just stay for the kids because that was unfair and even though we both made major mistakes that I didn't want to lose him as my H.

H was very sick last night. H threw up all night long. H said his head hurt and he had ringing in his ears which was making him dizzy. I did help him, H wasn't complaining then but at one point he told me to go back to bed. So instead of getting all upset I went back to bed. And this morning H told me if he told me something would I get upset, I said no. H then told me that as soon as I went to bed he felt better. I didn't say anything, I just said well I was glad that you felt better. H just looked at me. The morning wasn't as bad as I thought it would be we talked but not about us. H asked me to help him at one point and I did. We even laughed.... 2long you may just be right. Let's see what happens.

lost

H then told me that as soon as I went to bed he felt better.

Could it be that your h's 'illness' was an emotional reaction. That's how I was for days after d-day. Everytime my husband came home or walked into the room I was in it got worse.

zorweb,

--------------------------------------------------
Could it be that your h's 'illness' was an emotional reaction.
--------------------------------------------------
I believe it was. But why??? Why would he get like that after 7 months? Is it because I finally found out that the ow works with him? Does he think I am going to go to his job and confront the ow? Am I making him crazy? Was it because I told him that I wasn't going to let him stay here if he didn't want to work on our M? Or do you think that H felt that way because I also told him if he decided to leave he would have to sit the kids down and tell them? H told me that he would think about what he wanted to do and let me know. I told H that was fine.

How long did it take you to get better? This morning H said he felt better but not 100%. We even laughed. When H left for work I walked him to the door and said be careful. H said "I'll try".

lost

zorweb,

--------------------------------------------------
Could it be that your h's 'illness' was an emotional reaction.
--------------------------------------------------
I believe it was. But why??? Why would he get like that after 7 months? Is it because I finally found out that the ow works with him? Does he think I am going to go to his job and confront the ow? Am I making him crazy? Was it because I told him that I wasn't going to let him stay here if he didn't want to work on our M? Or do you think that H felt that way because I also told him if he decided to leave he would have to sit the kids down and tell them? H told me that he would think about what he wanted to do and let me know. I told H that was fine.

How long did it take you to get better? This morning H said he felt better but not 100%. We even laughed. When H left for work I walked him to the door and said be careful. H said "I'll try".

I think that it’s all of the above, it’s an emotional overload. I also think it’s because he does not want to loose either of you and his children too. He wants it all and he knows that he’s about to loose most of what he loves.

He is so used to having his cake and eating it too. A person in an affair usually is having their EN’s met at level that is much higher then any one spouse can meet. It’s unrealistic and intoxicating. To go without that probably scares the bageebees out of him.

There was a thread here on time asking why so many WS’s try to hard to hang on to both the affair and the marriage. My FWS responded saying that it’s because they do not want to loose either and will not make an effort to stop the affair or leave the marriage until they are forced to do so.

I still think you need to confront the OW. In the manner Cerri says. Not as a scene but to establish with her that you are going to fight for your family and she is hurting many people by her selfish behavior. That is also why a plan B letter is given to both the WS and the OP. As long as you do not let her know where you stand, she gets the impression that you don’t care about your marriage.

Who is Cerri???

I gave you a link in an earlier post here to a thread she was posting on...

Here's her short bio..."I've been studying MB intensively for the last 5 years. I first came across it in 1996, when Give and Take was first published. I am a marriage and relationship coach, and I find that I am dealing more and more exclusively with infidelity. Currently, I'm part of the first class that the Harleys are certifying as MB coaches."

Quote Cerri
-------------------------------------
So, let's talk a little about Plan A and Plan B.

Plan A is a strategy to separate the spouse from the lover. (Or perhaps to pull a spouse out of deep withdrawal, but that's not your issue right now.) Nothing more, nothing less. Plan A will not save or restore your marriage. It is simply a tool to show your spouse that you recognize the contribution you've made to the deterioration of your M, and that you are willing, able, and determined to change those things.

How does it work? Well, first you need to eliminate LBers. No demands, no disrespect, no losing your temper, no dishonesty, and no doing things that annoy or offend your spouse. (annoying behavior does have a qualifier when there is an A, and we will talk about that too.)

And if that isn't enough, Plan A is also about meeting needs. But only as you feel you can. If you can make love with your H and not go away angry and resentful... go for it!! But if not, then don't do it. It will backfire eventually.

In short, Plan A is about being pleasant, courteous, thoughtful, respectful. Most women cannot do Plan A as long as men. Some cannot even do it for a day, the pain of knowing their H is with OW is too great.

Plan A is not about being perfect, being a doormat, or being a perfect doormat! And it can be done in a letter if that is all you can muster. Plan A should have a deadline, it's not an indefinite lifestyle choice.

Plan B is a strategy to protect you, the BS from further pain caused by the cruelty of one's spouse having an affair. It is not punishment, and it's not a wake up call to the WS. The hoped for secondary effect is that the WS will discover that the OP cannot meet all the EN's and will recall the good Plan A work you did.

Plan B is risky. At first it will certainly push the WS into the arms of the lover. But almost all affairs die a natural death. And that is hastened by being exposed to the light of day. Affairs exist and thrive only in secret and in fantasy. Once the harsh realities of life... kids, schedules, finances, laundry (!!) intrude, they lose their appeal.

Soon the arguments set in, withdrawals to the LBnk are made and the A comes to an end.

If you have been doing Plan A for 8 weeks, and he is seeing changes... here's what I would suggest.

First, be honest with yourself about your level of energy to go on. Are you LBing more? Are you sleeping ok? How is your appetite? Are you losing your ability to concentrate? These are things that you need to take into account. Plan A is not sustainable indefinitely, and the more your LBnk drains, the harder it will be to continue.

I would say, plan on another 2-3 weeks. Be pleasant. But be honest. Tell him that you are hurt beyond anything you've ever experienced EVERY TIME he sees or speaks to this woman. Don't tell him you can get by.... tell him he is offending you grievously and that you are in pain.

At the end of that time, I would say go to Plan B.

The 2 biggest mistakes I see over and over again are not going to Plan B in time, and not insisiting on the conditions for recovery. NO ONE wants to do Plan B. It goes against every instinct we have. But MB is about going against instincts. Harley says it over and over again on every topic he covers. Doing what our instincts tell us to do only gets us into trouble.

A Plan B letter should be short and to the point. It must include these

1. I love you

2. I married you for life. I want to stay married to you.

3. This thing you are doing is too painful for me to bear; it is destroying the love I have for you.

4. As long as you have contact with this person, I cannot see or speak to you.

5. When this affair ends, I would love to discuss reconciliation and recovery with you.

6. Until then I ask that you not contact me. All issues relating to children/finances/etc should go through____ who is acting as intermediary.

Now, in the interim, there are things you can do. Confront the OW. Tell her that you love your H and that you want your marriage to survive. Tell her that she is contributing to the destruction of your home and your family.

Tell your children. Yes... tell them. They already know, so give them the gift of honesty.

Tell your parents and his. Tell your religious leader. Ask for their support in ending the A and saving your marriage.

Tell your friends and loved ones.

Yes, he will be angry. And this is the place where following the Policy of Joing Agreement does not apply. The marriage has already been breached. Telling is a way of stopping the bleeding so to speak. A way to end the A, to pick of the pieces of the destruction he is wreaking.

Affairs do not survive in the light of day. Doing everything you can to end it is encouraged. Once again, this is against every instinct we have, but it works.

From what you say, I think that this A would not last long in a Plan B situation. She is meeting limited needs and he is just having a wonderful time having his cake and eating it too. While you are suffering. I would not reccomend doing Plan A for very much longer. It doesn't seem to be accomplishing its purpose, which is to separate the spouse from the lover.

You can always find me at the JFO board, at the world's longest thread started by Persistant. Just pop on over and ask for me if I don't show up here and you want more help.

Cerri

-----------------------------

I know that some have told you that confronting OW is a love buster..... it is not. Again here is Cerri on that topic.

quote Cerri
-------------------------
what I really want to talk about is the common misconception about LBers. You made the comment that no contact would be viewed as a LBer by your H. Technically, it's not. I know that a lot of posters talk about a LBer as anything that your spouse finds unpleasant. That's not the case. If it were, then honesty, especially radical honesty, would become impossible.

A Love Buster falls into one of these categories:

1. Demands. Insisting that your spouse do something for you regardless of how it would nakje him or her feel to do it. Refusing to accept "No," to your request, graciously. Either overtly or insinuating some threat if your wish is not comlied with.

There's a whole layer of subleties around Demands. And it is defined by the one being asked to do whatever. I tend to be VERY sensitive to demands. My H saying something like, we need to change the oil this weekend, or I need you to come and look at (whatever his current project might be) will almost always fall into the demand category for me.

Also, we cannot insist that our spouse NOT do something. Although technically this is not a Demand but a notification that they are in violation of POJA, unless you are both on the same page about that policy, it will be a LBer.

The way to avoid making demands is to state what it is you would like, and then to ASK, "How would you feel about doing______?" This statement forces you to take your spouse's feelings into acount, and to accept ,"No," courteously.

2. Disrespect. This is anything that imposes your value judgement on your spouse. It can be as small as rolling your eyes at something he/she says, or as large as name calling, put downs. One that is common for BS's is to question the WS's morals, standards, ethics, care of children.

While we may all agree with those assessments, to state them to your spouse is disrespectful. You can THINK whatever you want, but you need to monitor what comes out of your mouth.

3. Angry Outburst. Losing ones' temper and having a screeching tantrum is easy to recognize.
But an AO can be quiet and just as cutting. It's an action that is punishing in some way. (this does not include removing oneself from abuse or pain or neglect.... unless you hurl a rolling pin at his head on your way out the door.)

Threats are included in this category. So if you are planning to go to Plan B, then you need to make the plan and do it. Threatening would be an AO.

4. Annoying Habits. Things like slurping coffee, snoring, leaving your shoes all over the house, collecting junk. All these are annoying habits. Things you do that make your spouse insane with irritation.

5. Independent Behavior. Monday night football, affairs, shopping with the girls, hunting, your religious practices. Lifestyle choices that are planned and executed without the enthusiastic agreement of both parties. Business travel falls into this category.

6. Dishonesty. Leaving your spouse in the dark on any of these subjects: 1. past history 2. present activities 3. Daily plans and schedule 4. Future plans, hopes, dreams, 5. Feelings and reactions... particularly to your spouse's behavior 6. Anything else you know to be true about yourself

Now, no contact in order to protect yourself from further pain does not fall into one of those categories. Will he be unhappy with that? Duh!!! Of course he will. But his unhappiness will be the direct consequence of his betrayal of you and his vows.

You are not hurting him. He has chosen to hurt himself by hurting you. No one, and least of all Harley, believes that you should be in pain in order to save your marriage. If you ever get a chance to hear him, he speaks about this all the time. That his concern is with YOU, the BS. He does not want you to suffer any more than you already are.

If your H is unhappy with n/c, then it's up to him to do the things HE needs to do in order to have you in his life.

I hope that is helpful. I'll check back tomorrow and Tues. I will be gone the end of the week, but my thoughts will be with you.

Blessings,

Cerri

more cerri quotes

-----------------
So, as I've said a bazillion times, here/there/everywhere.... Plan A is a strategy to separate the spouse from the lover. You do that by doing YOUR part in fixing what was wrong with the M. And you let your spouse know that's your intention and what you are working towards.

Part of Plan A is being honest. Almost universally one of the BIG things that was wrong with the marriage was a lack of honesty. Plans and activities for sure, but even more so, our reactions to our spouse's decisions and behavior.

That's where the answer to your question comes in. How do you ask for n/c? First you are honest about how you feel when there is contact. That you are offended, hurt beyond belief, terribly frightened, and deeply sad. EVERY TIME.

If he calls her... you say it. If he sees her daily at work, then you say it daily. Not in a way that is angry or judgemental. It has to be factual. "I'm hurt and offended that you will be seeing _____." "Your work/recreation/emotional/whatever realtionship with______ is very painful to me. It hurts more than anything else you could do."

These are factual statements. They are not judgemental. You are not calling names... him or her.... you are not questioning anyone's morals, values, priorities, ability to think. Simply the facts about how you feel.

Now, I know it sounds easy, and I know it's way harder than that to do. Been there!! So, practice in the mirror. Write what you are going to say. Do it until you get it right. But tell him.

Next comes asking. Ask him to end the contact. This gets trickier, because you get into the murky waters of demands. So you need to keep it as a request.

"I'd really like you to find another job, quit the bowling league, not go to that bar.... so that you don't have contact with______. It hurts me when you do." "Please don't call_____. It is very painful for me when you speak to her."

Again, all of this is about what you want and how you feel. It is not saying that there is something wrong with him or his judgement because he does these things. (Granted, we might all agree that there IS... but as a spouse, you don't get to say that.)

If honesty and asking for what you want, combined with Plan A, don't get you where you need to be, then it's time for Plan B.

Plan A should have a 6 month time limit at the MOST for men. (Harley said that yesterday on the radio, and it's what I've been preaching forever) Women generally do a good Plan A for about 3 WEEKS.

Now, if contact has lessened, or if he is willing to discuss what recovery would look like, then I think there's some basis for sticking it out longer, because you are seeing progress.

Remember, it's a process. It's not going to be perfect overnight. You might feel like in the day to day nothing is changing. But when you look back you can see that it is getting better. That's what you want.

If he's in a 12 step program, wow, there should be some accountability along the "harm none" lines. Most are pretty slanted that way, but I don't know how that would pertain to affairs. They also tend to be heavy on the honesty thing.

How to ask if he still sees her? Just ask. "Have you seen/spoken to _____ today?" is perfectly acceptable. So is snooping. Ideally he should be telling you daily whether there was contact or not, and whether he was tempted even to see/speak to her.

Hope that helps, I'm gone tomorrow through Sun. let me know what else I can do.

C

I thought you had read them... maybe you did.

Her advise is sooo good.

zorweb,

I haven't completely been LB free the past 7 months. My d-day 03-21-02. H said A was E and didn't become P untill Oct and it lasted untill Dec/Jan02. H also said the ow was the one who didn't want to have anything to do with since he was married. YAH RIGHT. Things would of never happened if that was true. In one of my tizzy fits I told him that if she was a true friend she would have never even went down that road with him. Well, the pages continued. But H actions became better. H stopped going out and up untill I found out about the job situation 10-01-02, I thought we were doing just o.k.. I would spaz ever now and then but things seemed to be getting better. We were even making love more then we use to.

Then this revalation came to light. I did speak to the ow 2x but ow denied calling my H. I wasn't ignorant I just asked her why she was calling my H. I told her that she was calling my H, I wasn't calling her husband. ow denied it both times I called her and before I lost my composure I hung up on her. But that was before I found out that the ow worked with my H. I asked H why ow was paging him and like I said before he said it was one of the ow's friends trying to cause problems between us. We'll see. I really want to confront ow but so many people are against it, I don't know what to do. I am afraid if I see her I will beat the stuff out of her. O.k. let's cut the crap I know I will beat the crap out of her. When I found out that the ow worked with H. I freaked out and when my H came home I kept on hitting him. I was slapping his arms. I know major LB but I totally lost control. Should I call ow? Would that be a better? Should I tell my H that I am going to call ow?

Can my H be telling me the truth about the A? My H told me that whatever happened happened and there was nothing that he could do to change what he did. H did tell me that he was truly sorry that he hurt me so badly. But now we have to focus on us, and what we are going to do. I am so confused. Should I wait 3 weeks and not LB then tell him about how I feel about him working with the ow? Should I tell him that he will continue to have feelings for her as long as he see's her everyday?

H said we would talk this weekend, maybe he decided to leave after all. If that is the case then I have no choice but to Plan B. But then again maybe he decided to work on our M. I'll post as soon as more drama pop up.

Thank you, your insight has been great......

lost

lost:

"--------------------------------------------------
Could it be that your h's 'illness' was an emotional reaction.
--------------------------------------------------
I believe it was. But why??? Why would he get like that after 7 months?"

Oh yeah, it sure could be an emotional reaction. My W is getting headaches and deep depression now, all at the same time she's being very happy with me. We even had a good time signing escrow papers 2day, then 2night she was crying in our bed alone. I came 2 comfort her, but she won't talk about anything but the stress from rebuilding our house. It's sressful alright, but I know that isn't ALL of it. She's an otherwise very tough gal. This stuff is stressful, but she can handle it, and even enjoys it at times. No, I know why she's stressed.

2long,

Confront ow or not??? Alot of people say to do it then alot of people say not to. What do the Harley's say?

Should I believe my H? Should I just let him be. I want to spy on him so badly. Is that a LB?
My H won't even bring home his check stub. Is that a sign that he is still seeing ow? Should I demand that H bring it home? I don't know what to do anymore.

Now I am more lost then ever.......

lost:

I just happen 2 think it wouldn't do you any good 2 confront OW. But I'm in the minority here.

Should you "just trust" your H? No. Never BLINDLY trust him again! Trust him, but not blindly. Start by trusting him 2 act in his own best interests. Hard 2 be disappointed at that level. Then, try trusting him 2 act in YOUR best intersts. If he loves you, he can do that.

Snooping is up 2 you. I still do a little bit of it, but just a little 2 verify that contact is continuing. I haven't looked at the content in a while. In the end, if it wasn't this OM, it might be someone else. So, I've focused on what I can do 2 correct what was wrong with our M, show my W that I love her unconditionally, and watch her respond. It works! Eventually, she won't "need" contact, because her ENs are being met by us being a family (notice I didn't say "by me" because it's a lot bigger than that). Rat Meat will become a non-issue, (just like my IC used 2 say, but for different reasons!).

What you do is up 2 you, and your particular sitch and your R with your H. Remember, snooping can make you think things are going on much worse than they actually are, so think about what you will learn by snooping, and try 2 compare that with the possibility of getting your H 2 volunteer information 2 you because he knows you are someone he can trust and wants 2 be with.

It will take time and it will be hard, but if it's worth it or not is entirely up 2 you 2 determine.

2long,

I have decided not to snoop. Well except for the pager thing. But if I see the ow's # in his pager I will just erase it. I am going to try really really hard. I just hope my H opens his eyes before he loses us.

Today when he called from work I told him how much it hurt me that he works with her. And how sick I feel when he leaves. I told him that it is the worst pain I have ever felt in my life.
And I can't help the way I feel I just wish that I could. I told H that I wish he would look for another job but that was up to him. He was the one that had to make that decision. Not me.
H said that he gets sick too, and we are just making each other sick. (I IGNORED THAT COMMENT). Then I told him about the check stub thing and I felt the only reason he didn't bring in home was because he was still seeing her. H said that he wasn't seeing her. I then asked H what time he was coming home and he said as soon as he gets out of work.

I panicked and paged him because I was going to tell him that he don't make me sick. But I changed my mind. I usually wait up for him too, but today I am not. I am going to try not to LB anymore.........

I bet you were super happy that redmeat is seeing someone else, I wish the pig finally opens her eyes and realizes that my H is not going anywhere either. Well, at least I hope not. This weekend my H said we would talk again.

lost

Lost,

It does not matter if you have not been LB free for the past 7 months. You are only human. Just make sure there is no physical LB ing going on. That could get you in big trouble.

Should I believe my H? Should I just let him be. I want to spy on him so badly. Is that a LB?

No you should not blindly believe your husband. He has not been truthful to you. She is still calling him.. you know that for a fact. And he lied to you about working with her. Those are huge wrongs. Instead of accusing you husband of still having an affair, deal with the things you know of. Tell him that the phones calls/pages/whatever have to stop, that he needs to find a new job, that you will not tolerate any more lies, and that a no-contact letter must be sent. Anything less he must leave and it’s Plan B. Make the point very clear to him that his lying is enough of a problem because as long as he lies, you have no idea if he’s in an affair or not.

[b’ Should I wait 3 weeks and not LB then tell him about how I feel about him working with the ow? Should I tell him that he will continue to have feelings for her as long as he see's her everyday?

Do not wait for this…. Do it now.

To ask for no contact you are honest about how you feel when there is contact. That you are offended, hurt beyond belief, terribly frightened, and deeply sad. EVERY TIME.

If he calls her... you say it. If he sees her daily at work, then you say it daily. Not in a way that is angry or judgmental. It has to be factual. "I'm hurt and offended that you will be seeing _____." "Your work/recreation/emotional/whatever relationship with______ is very painful to me. It hurts more than anything else you could do."

These are factual statements. They are not judgmental. You are not calling names... him or her.... you are not questioning anyone's morals, values, priorities, ability to think. Simply the facts about how you feel.

Now, I know it sounds easy, and I know it's way harder than that to do. Been there!! So, practice in the mirror. Write what you are going to say. Do it until you get it right. But tell him.

Next comes asking. Ask him to end the contact. This gets trickier, because you get into the murky waters of demands. So you need to keep it as a request.

"I'd really like you to find another job, quit the bowling league, not go to that bar.... so that you don't have contact with______. It hurts me when you do." "Please don't call_____. It is very painful for me when you speak to her."

Again, all of this is about what you want and how you feel. It is not saying that there is something wrong with him or his judgment because he does these things. (Granted, we might all agree that there IS... but as a spouse, you don't get to say that.)

If honesty and asking for what you want, combined with Plan A, don't get you where you need to be, then it's time for Plan B.

[b]Confront ow or not??? Alot of people say to do it then alot of people say not to. What do the Harley's say?

Harley says to confront the OW. You can do it in writing… Tell her that you love your H and that you want your marriage to survive. Tell her that she is contributing to the destruction of your home and your family.

Keep it short and simple. You do not want to give her any insight into your relationship or treat her like some one you owe an explanation to. You are simply drawing a line in the sand.

This may get you H angry. And this is the place where following the Policy of Joint Agreement does not apply. The marriage has already been breached. Telling is a way of stopping the bleeding so to speak. A way to end the A, to pick of the pieces of the destruction he is wreaking.

My H won't even bring home his check stub. Is that a sign that he is still seeing ow? Should I demand that H bring it home? I don't know what to do anymore.

This is another form of lying. Your husband needs to bring home his pay stub. Tell him that since he is not brining it home there must be something on it he is hiding. I would be better if he just showed you.

Why do you think his not bringing home his check stub has anything to do with his seeing her?

zorweb,

It has been a few days and I still haven't said anything to my H. I asked him if he has seen/talked/called/even if he has been to ow home. H said that he seen her only at work and just said HI.

I am so scared to tell him to do all those things. I don't know if I am scared that he will leave. Let me tell you my situation. I am a stay at home MOM with 2 school age boys 10 & 7 and 1 - 3y.o.. I can not afford to tell him to leave. I really really want to tell him all those things you mentioned but what do you do when you have no one to turn to for help. I had to stop counseling because of our money situation. I did tell him about his check stub and he said that he was not going to let me manipulate him. So Zorweb, I am stuck in a hard place.

H told me that whenever I mention what happened he gets sick and he is tired of feeling sick. He can't sleep and hardly eats and when he does eat he gets sick. He again swears that he hasn't been with ow in along time. But how can I find out the truth? I can not afford a PI. I don't know what to do.

lost