Sharon,

U and I are not much different. I read your post and not only see your pain through your words but relive it. Much of what you said, happened to me. I also felt like the WS would walk away from me. Not pay attention to me, leave me in the dust, yet I was available and made things right for him more often than not.

Was I the glue? Hm.... more like contact cement....... he wanted, he got. I asked and in many cases not even a thought. The nickel and dime thingy? yep us to. You know I wasn't dependent enough that is what I was told. Couldn't have been more babble if he tried. Just didn't make sense. So when he actually wanted to come home I made myself be needy. Very hard for me ya know!!!

Here's a story. In many countries the wives are treated like 2nd class citizens. NO different in Japan. According to the story my mom like to tell (she is a real jokester), before WWII in Japan the man walked in the front then the children and behind all of them the wife. After the war things changed, even in Japan....... men went to war and women had to work. So a role reversal happened.... or did it?
The women now walked in the front, then the children and at the end the man...... now why?? Well the story ends that the wife walked up front to check for land mines..... Is this a ripley's moment??!?!? You know, it probably happened.... how sad. Yea some cultures teach the men to treat the women like 2nd class citizens..... well it doesn't have to be like that in our families. I am making sure our son doesn't view his wife in such a manner. Let's see if he'll remember when he actually does get married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your roller coaster of emotions are because you probably haven't reached your settling point yet. It will come. Don't rush it. Your conscience has an agenda, it wants to do all it can before it 'gives up'. Even then it doesn't mean all is given up. Read Venus Envy's post. Her H came back but she had moved on too far. The point is that he did come back. He felt her pain.

You are doing good. Look back from when you came or d/d til now....... see the difference?

hugz,
L.

Thanks Orchid,

Settle Point. Boy that would be nice. I do think I am getting there. No matter what I say. I really, really do want to save my M. It is almost to the point where I don't tell anyone that anymore. Except you guys. I can't. People can't understand. I know I have improved, I see new posters and I feel where they are. I am not there anymore. I am glad. I know I will always love my H. I don't like WH. He's okay, but he's not Husband material, poor OW. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I read Venus Envy's post. It kind of scared me. This is THE BIGGEST REASON I don't think my WH and OW have a chance. He is one seriously messed up human being right now. He has a LOT of baggage to sort through. Not the basis for a lasting relationship. I hope someday if it doesn't work out for us, I will be ready for a new relationship. I want one. I would cherish one. But I have to be happy with ME first. That is WH's problem HE is NOT happy with HIM. That is why he can't find happiness he looks outside, it is inside. I could feel it this weekend, he is still looking for the magical, happiness that is out there somewhere. It is like Dorothy in Oz, "there's no place like home" but she just had to believe it, to learn it for herself. My H has to learn it for himself. I cannot teach him. God is teaching him. I have felt this all along. This is a test, a lesson he needs. I cannot hurry it along, it isn't fair to him. I will always love him, he will always be in my heart, will I be here when the lesson is learned is the question with no answer.

Thanks for being here,

Sharon

Hi,

Just checking in before I call it a night to see how you are doing. You know I am thinking about asking my H about what your H is doing. What do you think??? My H is on a business trip right now and will be back tomorrow.

My H was not happy with himself either. Of course the OW was trying desparately to 'make him happy'. Something like: 'you will be happy.....now smile.' Hm....... so I did the same to him also. I said, I give you your freedom now go be happy because someone in all this misery needs to be happy and it isn't our child and I. So it must be you. I personally don't give a hoot if the OW is happy or not so smile and show me you are happy. Every waking moment, be happy, you have your freedom. Don't come over here moping..... if we have to suffer the least thing you can do is show us that you are happy.

Boy did that rock the WS boat. See the WS and OW wanted so bad to piss me off. Well I told him when he was happy I was happy. The ow didn't want me happy but she wanted the WS happy. What a kink in their plans. darn it smile!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

How do you smile and cry at the same time??? Those uncoordinated WS' & OPs just can't. Now that's the ticket. Because when they do try to smile, the will know they have made you happy and they don't want that so they need to mope and over and over again. Bet their faces get a work out!!!

U laughing yet???! It was funny to imagine...... I liked doing that. Wish I had done it sooner.

L.

Hi Sharon, just reading through your thread and noticed Orchid mentioned something about the 5 stages of grief. I don't know the link she's referring to, but I know of two websites that have some great info on this kind of stuff. Although I couldn't actually find the 5 stages of grief. It does really help to understand it though - just to know you're not going nuts.

The first is called Life Challenges - http://www.lifechallenges.org

They have heaps of articles on grieving, loss and letting go. All kinds of stuff.

The other is http://www.abandonmentrecovery.com/index.html

It was from a book I read recently called "The journey from abandonment to healing.

Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks Seahorse,
I will check those out. I wrote a reply on your thread, hope you are well.

Orchid,

I would love to hear what your H has to say. I have talked to several guys about this and pretty much get the same answer YOU H IS A DOPE, IT WON'T LAST. One of the guys I talked with even made a pass, a BIG one at me. OOPS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I practically had to fight him off and I am not kidding. He grabbed my behind and tried to cop a feel. I couldn't belive it. HE WAS MARRIED TO MY D'S BEST FRIENDS MOM!!!. They are separated. Guess what one of their problems is??????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
If he hadn't been married I would have been mighty tempted. Boy did it give me an INSIGHT into the male point of view.

I can't believe all the weird stuff that is happening to me. Never in my whole married life have I had guys come on to me and now guess what??? I've had 3 all married. Guess they prey on what they sense is an easy target.

Your thing about the smiling caught me funny, I wish I had read it last week. He didn't seem to happy this weekend I should have told him that. But guess who was smiling happy and flirty this weekend ME!!!

BTW, loved your laundry story. You should have told OW that that was just a little problem H had sometimes she should get used to it. You know, have you ever seen YOUNG FRANKENSTIEN "Honey, I put out 2 hampers, one for your clothes and one for your socks and poo-poo undies." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know reading your threads. I like you. You are kind, compassionate, but you have a quick wit and kind of a naughty little sense of humor. I am a lot like that. I think a sense of humor REALLY helps in this.

Well Orchid, let me know what your H thinks. Because of the above problems I have kind of stopped talking to my male friends. So I would appreciate his input. I will not feel violated if you tell him anything. As you can tell I'm NOT a PRIVATE person.

Thanks, and have a good day in SUNNY CALIFORNIA.

Sharon

To anyone who reads this and is closer to D than reconciliation, as I am, I have a book suggestion. 'Rebuilding when your Relationship Ends' by Dr.Bruce Fisher. True it is a Divorce recovery book, but I am finding very helpful information for all the emotions and fears. It is a great help to my moving forward. So it is not necessarily for those who are expecting a D. In fact reading some of it has actually given me hope. It is helping me understand what is going on with me and a little what is going on with my H. It also helps with the scary "What if this doesn't work,we don't rebuild" feelings that I have.

Thanks again,

Sharon

Orchid

Don't know if you'll see this. You said you would talk to your H. Is he back in town yet? Also my H e-mailed me today. Have not heard anything since the weekend, but he e-mails me today and asks about a job I'm trying to get. And telling me how bad things are in his company, layoffs, shut down of a close facility, and that the lawsuit agaist him looks ugly. I think he was looking for the safety net. I did reply. Told him I was sorry, I had been thinking about him. Was too bad his old company was doing this to him. Threw in the line, "I guess it comes down to the bottom line, money and blaming others for things that you caused, intergity and loyalty, what are they?"
It was directed at his old company, but guess who I meant? Also told him I would take care of the kids no matter what, and that we would be fine, that we are fine. Said I was sorry but that I didn't really know what else to say, except he should just believe in himself.

Was this bad? Did I say too much. I didn't want him to get the impression I was willing to help out and I have a feeling he was fishing for something. Don't exactly know what? But, I hope I didn't take the bait. I have already contacted my lawyer, oh WH had to talk to a lawyer about lawsuit, I was tempted to ask if he handled divorces too. I told my lawyer to push the D through. Is that wrong? I am ready, I want to get this over with. If H decides he wants to come back I'll deal with it. But the days of coming home to open arms are over. He will have to prove he has learned something. Not just be coming home because things didn't work out or for financial reasons. He will not come back and be the husband he was for the last 2 yrs. I would rather be alone. I need a HUSBAND and all that it means not a boarder or meal ticket, a commited, loving, sharing, thoughtful MAN. I don't deserve any less and I won't have any less.

Thats what I mean about the e-mail and not wanting to send a message. I do care about him. I do love him. But I don't want him to think I am here pining away for him and hoping for any opportunity to get him to come back, you know, looking for a way to keep my foot in the door.

Anyway, if you get a chance I would like to hear your H's opinion. In my reading and research I think I have a pretty good intellectual understanding of what is going on with my H. That alone makes this easier, I can see now that even though I had changes to make, it was not all about me. It has relieved alot of my guilt and anxiety. Understanding is the road to recovery.

Thanks Orchid and everyone else for all your help. You are the best.

Sharon

Hi Sharon, hope you are hanging in there. It sounds like your H is so preoccupied with lawsuits and OW that unfortunately he dosen't pay much attention to you. You are the safety net. This is only my opinion, I do not know enough about your story to know fully.

I hear your frustration and anger. It hurts a lot, especially when you do think bad, you can see it all happening in hindsight.

Re the men hitting on you. Maybe just view it as a bit of 'grief relief', just to boost your confidence and give you a laugh. It is sad though that so many married men do this kind of thing. It makes me wonder... At this stage best to keep your distance though, it will just complicate things further!

SH

Yeah Seahorse,

Thanks, I think I am a safety net. I can't quite figure WH out. I can only guess. Everyone thinks he is just trying to make his life sound bad so my lawyer will back off on alimony. I don't know.

The boost of my ego. I guess that's true. I also think it is sad that Married men will do this, but from the stories I've heard it isn't just men.

I am not about to EVER do to any woman what has been done to me. I just need to be careful. I think without knowing it I might be putting out vunerable signals. I don't want to give any Married man the wrong impression or any man for that matter till my D is final. It is just weird that no one has hit on me forever since I married my H. Its like "I don't need this right now" Anyway thanks for your post I appreciate your input. It is always helpful to have a different outlook.

Sharon

Sharon,

I got your message. H is on his way out the door again on another last minute trip. He is suppose to be back on Sunday. I will try to pick his brain then.

Keep posting and sharing your thoughts. For me that was how I learned to heal. Couldn't afford the MC all the time so between reading the books, I gained a lot of support here but I had to pick and choose what I was going to use in my personal case.

I also felt useful if I could help someone avoid some of the dumb things I was going through. I think I did a bit...... it served as a double benefit because it helped me keep my sanity. Eventually the gap between my sanity and the OP/WS' widened. With that gap, I learned how to use what tools I had at my disposal and was able to regain control of myself. I had to learn to be happy with that because for a while, that was all I could do. I think that is what most of us BS need to realize. If we do a lot of pain could be averted.

take care,
L.

Thanks Orchid,
I appreciate your taking time to talk to me always. I can see that you have taken many BS under your wing. I am glad I'm one.

I can't afford MC either so this is a GODSEND. I have learned alot here. I have read alot. I have prayed. This site is wonderful because it is first hand experience. Also as I have stated before, it seems trying to save a marriage after an affair seems a foreign concept to most. And the PLAN I have no one except my MB friends understand. Most people I talk to think it is insane for me to do, say, and act the way I do toward my H. I was so glad to find MB and Surviving An Affair. It put a name and plan to what I felt from the first moment I found out my H was thinking of leaving. I wanted to repair, I wanted to change my behaviors, I wanted to show that we were still a viable couple. But I was lost without direction or advice till I found Dr. Harleys books and this wonderful site.

So, thanks. I would appreciate if you get the time to talk to your H. You sound like busy people so I will understand if you can't get around to it. Just be my friend. That means alot to me. And I'm sure many here. I have heard the sentiment from others.

Thanks,

Sharon

Hi Sharon,
I've been pretty busy with family stuff, so haven't been online.

I'm happy to read that you are feeling strong and able to face moving on. It sounds like you are avoiding LBs. It sounds like you handled the weekend beautifully.

That said, I do think you have to protect yourself, and since your H abandoned his family, you must take any legal steps necessary. Even Harley recommends legal advice/action when the spouse leaves. Firstly it is the natural consequence of their action. Secondly, while you may want to save your M, your first priority has to be to protect your children. So I think, absolutely pursue the divorce, and file first, especially if it is to your advantage.

You can, however, express to your H, why you are filing. If you still hope for reconciliation, you can tell him how much you regret being placed in a situation where you must file. You can say- I had hopes for our relationship and our family but you've made it clear there's no hope. Then let him stew in it. Maybe it will clear the fog out when he sees you moving on. If it doesn't at least you will have protected yourself and the children. Just keep everything respectful if you can manage it. (It's very hard).

Wishing you strength in coping with these tough times.

Hi Espoir,
thanks for getting back. It is nice to hear from you. Yes the weekend went fine. Better than I expected because I thought I wouldn't see H. He was around quite a bit. Hope he felt comfortable and HOME. But don't know. With him being away it is hard to tell if anything gets through.

I go through days of wanting complete NC to days of wanting to communicate. I did last night wrote him a newsy little letter about some things going on here. I know he misses the kids, ME, I'm not sure.

Yes I am persuing the D. I am having a hard time with it. H gives me sob stories about money, yet, no one, not even his own father and mother, thinks he is being completely truthful in his
circumstances. So I get torn between wanting to believe him and following my lawyers advice. If he continues to squeek about money though I am going to pull the D. I can't afford the back and forth. He will have to get a lawyer of his own. This could happen soon. I have pretty much set my wishes and he is balking. With the lawsuit he is already involved in he might just want to leave things as they are for now. I have told him why I am doing it. I said all the things you mentioned about the D to him. He knows I don't want it. Maybe he needs to think I do.

Good or bad, I think I need him to know I want it done. If he doesn't he is going to have to admit it to me. I think he is afraid to tell me anything that might be considered "Wanting to come back" Well he better start letting me know, if he is having second thoughts. 9 months of "I don't want you" starts to sink in after awhile. It is hard to continue to want to put any effort into a one-way relationship. And ours is very one-way. He is shut up like a clam. I am open and giving and honest, I want something in return. I know I have to give him unconditional love, and I will continue to love him, but continue to work on R, that is a different story.

I am going to try as long as I can. Like I said I go back and forth. I will always have to keep communication with him because of the kids. It is too hard to have an outside person to handle that for a true plan b. But, I can feel my resolve fading day by day. Oh if only once he would make some effort or say something to give me a little hope. But I have been waiting all these months, NOTHING. It is hard to take, and even harder to try.

Anyway thanks ES for your reply, it is good to know you care.

Sharon

<small>[ October 14, 2002, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: uteconf footballwidow ]</small>

Sharon,

Well I briefly talked to H about your H's situation. I mentioned that you said your H has low self esteem and that he seems to be messed up right now.

Now remember how there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker!?!?!? LOL!?? Well in some cases Xws' have little sympathy for those still in the fog. That's putting it mildly.

But good to know. My H implied that your H's low self esteem is no excuse to have an A. Hm....... Keep this piece of info in the back of your hat because one day you can share that piece of insight with your H.

Last year one of the MB WS posters was a guy by the name of SNL. I used to even speak with he and his W. Well SNL was a big time poster and actually helped many people. Know what he thought of my WS? SNL called him a jerk...... ok but SNL was a WS himself. In fact SNL went on later to move out and even had altercations with his W. Know what my H called SNL? Yep a jerk..... Seems like WS' don't like the WS attitude on others.

Now that's something you can share with your H. Send him a few stories (make sure you copy them so that he can't poke around here if you don't want him to. Let him read the stories and responses. I did that. Mine read them and sometimes it sunk in. Other times it went right over his head but I kept sending them anyway. One of the ones I sent was Trueheart's letter to the WS (Trueheart is an XWs and he wrote that letter to my WS). It is a great letter.

take care,
L.

Thanks Orchid,

Tell your H thanks, too. You made me laugh. Yes I have talked to my H since A about some WS's we know, he thought they were JERKS too. I guess that word is in the Babblese Dictionary under: EVERY WS BUT "ME".

Just goes to show you a little justification goes a long way.

You are sweet to take the time to help. And believe me it DOES help. I have felt so much better since coming to this site. I hope I can somehow help others the way I have been helped but I feel like I don't know anything. Plus I don't have ANY experience in the Recovery Dept. Not yet anyway. Oh the power of positive thought.

Anyway thanks again for your continued help and support. It means a lot to me. As I have said before NO ONE I talk to here (at home, or friends) seem to understand why I keep hoping. The more I read and find out though the more hope I have. I may be wrong but I see a positive in all the negative. I just have to figure out how to move forward without moving on. It is easier said than done. I am not quite sure how, but I know it is what I need to do. H needs to know I am moving "on". I don't think he will pull his head out till he thinks that, and even then it will take awhile. His head is pretty far up. I may need a crowbar. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Talk to you again. Thanks,

Sharon

Orchid - just a quick note, been on the computer today, and saw that you wrote about SNL. Yes, I am the wife of SNL. Just wanting to give you an update, will start another thrread in GQII, Michigan girl.

S

Checking to see how you are doing. Yes, you got that WS dictionary definition right. Funny how different an inperfection can look so much worse on a total stranger vs the Ws. Oh yea, the WS can do not wrong........ LOL!!!

Gotta put some humor in our lives otherwise it gets way tooo depressing. The WS get us depressed as it is, I was and still am determined not to let it show. ya know?!??!?

You know the day that I was able to laugh in the WS face and strong enough to tell him that both he and the OW were slipping in their devious ways that their stupid antics of hiding their suppoesd secret meetings were not only getting sloppy but down right humorus, was the day I realized I would survive. I knew I would be there were many days inbetween that I felt like I wasn't going to make it. So I understand when others say the similar.

Move forward Sharon without regret. If he comes back it will be because he has put effort into you and your M. You are already worth it but it does no good if he doesn't see the same value. Like giving a kid a gold coin and he try to buy bubble gum from the vending machine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

C2m,

I responded to your other thread.

Catch ya later!

L.

Orchid,

Thanks for your response. I guess part of my downer this week was that deep deep down I was hoping for a little breakthrough this last weekend. Boy, that "don't expect anything" is a hard one.

You mean you still get depressed!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Yikes!!

Yes, I am the type of person who needs humor. It is how I deal. I can be very serious and thoughtful but, what the heck, you only go around once in life, might as well laugh while you're going.

Orchid, I want to move forward, but how do I do it and still keep hope alive? Or do I just give up the hope? The hope unfortunately is what keeps dragging me down. You said when you were ready to move forward and accept the outcome, you were ready. Did you still have hope?

Anyway, thanks. Tell your H thanks again. I gotta get to work. Funny you should mention bubble gum I work in a candy store. You think if I gave H a gold coin he would buy the "sweetest thing in the store" ME. I have a couple of old man friends at the mall who call me that. HEY WAIT A MINUTE THEY ARE SINGLE!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> too bad they're 80 yrs old.

Sharon

Sharon,
I don't recall too much about the presence of hope when I wanted to move on (I know you asked Orchid, butting in anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

What I think is that healing will take place if you let it. If you concentrate on positive things, your kids, your job (candy store sounds almost as good as my book store <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), taking care of yourself, not doing things you'll regret, but continuing to think issues through and evaluate & plan your response. You will begin to recover from the trauna & loss. Not necessary forget or know what to do, but feel more like yourself, thinking more clearly.

You sound like a strong person at this point. And that's a good thing.