TORO

There is one HUGE advantage that you have that OM doesn't have, and that is that you have more contact with her than he does.

Don't wait, start dating her NOW. For example take her to her favorite restaurant. If she says yes, don't try to put the moves on her, act like you just met her for the first time and this is your first date, and don't try to french kiss her at the end of the date ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The purpose is to build a foundation for her to be able to trust you and herself and enjoy your company.

TORO

I got to go to work, so I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Toro,
I just wanted to voice my opinion again. Please do try to 'date' your WW. The others are right, the less she has to depend upon the OM for anything, the better. Even though it was wrong, the OM and I built a wall of emotional closeness for a long time , and my BS didn't even try to talk to me, or see me. This sounds weird, but I wanted a reaction from him, and I didn't get much at all as far as him missing me, etc. That is just my opinion. I am so glad that you are coming here and trying to work things out in your marriage.

Take care,
Hopeful

2long and Toro,

I understand your d/d was recent. However, Toro's W moved out. She has been extremely disrespectful. Wanting him to meet her needs while she breaks up her family.

Separation is already a given. Plan B does require the BS to be emotionally ready for all reactions. However, his choices are to allow her to use plan A and treat him as a doormat or go to plan B and secure his status thereby reducing the pain and saving his santity.

It is hard to see one so new in this process to have to go to plan B but it has been done before and can be if planned correctly.

Toro, I hope the best for you. Keep your focus clear. Do not allow anyone to use you as a doormat. Retain your dignity.

take care,
L.

Orchid.

I agree with what your saying about TORO's wife being disrespectful and breaking up the family, but if TORO doesn't learn to control his emotions and NOT love bust her, then he is going to be just as much a slave to his emotions as his WW is to hers. Even if he were to divorce her, he will still have to deal with her for a long,long time and it's in his children's best interests if he learns to not be manipulated by her into emotional battles that are for the sole purpose of wearing him down and causing him bitterness and resentment. The only way he can avoid reacting to her manipulations is by controlling his emotions when they are screaming at him to retaliate against her. In other words, no love busting her.

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

One of the reasons I recommend Toro call Steve is that Steve should also be able to talk to Toro and access what he is able to stand. Toro, you have the $$, I recommend you call and get a little more help. I think 2long would agree that it is worth it.

SS

I'm sorry everyone. I just can't take it anymore. WW called me this morning to tell me she was going back to see OM and wanted to trade weekends with the kids with me. I told her no and she said she would make other arrangements. She also said he will be coming here between now and New Years to see her. And that she will be going there on New Years. She said she was going there to meet his family and friends.
I can't take it, it hurts too much to here those things. I'm sorry, but I have to Plan B. I know TooMuchCoffeeMan, that you would disagree, but I can't keep feeling this hurt everyday.

I'll keep posting

TORO

TORO,

You don't have to be sorry. As BS you have done more than you share by willing to try to work on M, that is more than average Joe willing to give their WS a chance. Get med if you need too, you may need it. Do what you have to.

Keep posting ... -RH-

Just found out that WW is telling our friends that I have a girlfriend. Buddy of mine called and asked why I didn't tell him about my girlfriend. I said your kidding right? He said WW told someone that I was seeing someone. I asked him if he believed it, he said him and his wife new there was no truth in it. He feels WW is telling people that so it will be ok to do what she is doing. I do not have a girlfriend and I have no intention of seeing anyone for a long time. I have too many things I want to work on. First and foremost I want to be there for my boys. It is obvious that she doesn't take their feelings into consideration since she is skipping a weekend with them to go see OM.

Oh, and if OM is reading any of this, and I'm sure you are, tell WW that I will not trade weekends with her so she can go see you. Her family will not watch the boys, neither will my family. It is beyond imagination that WW is actually asking me to trade weekends with her so she can go be with OM. Am I the only one that see hows absolutely ridiculous this is? It's beyond belief. But, it shows me where she is coming from. Maybe someday she'll leave the mothership and actually come down to earth. B/c the only people she is hurting are her kids. And OM is a willing accomplice. It just makes me sick she would do this to them. She actually told me that it is her birthday and she wants to do something special for her. HMMMMM, how about taking a special day to be with your kids. I think to her the kids are just a nuiscance. She wants me to have them 1 more day a week, but her only concern about it is that she may lose some child support money. WOW, what a great mother to have. Maybe she should tell the kids that she only wants them with her so she can get more child support money. Unbelieveable. I told her I would love to have them 1 more day. In fact I would love to have them all the time. They are my life and I would give my life just so that they would never have to feel any of this pain.

Sorry I'm going on and on, just had to rant a little. I don't see how she can look into their eyes and want to be away from them. It kills me every day and night they are not with me.

TORO

TORO:

"She said do you actaully think that we could work this out? I said if OM wasn't involved absolutely. She said even if OM wasn't involved I don't think we could work this out. I think that is fog-talk myself, but I didn't say anything. "

I haven't read any of the followon posts yet, but this caught my eye. What 2 do? STOP ALL TALK ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP. PERIOD. Talk about the weather, the kids, the left front tire on your car. No more R talk. She IS in the fog. You can't REASON with her, it will drive you BATTY.

Toro hon,

Step back and take a deep breath. You don't have to resolve all this stuff today.

1. Get with Steve or Jennifer ASAP for support.
2. If you are feeling quite anxious (can't blame you if you do), see you doctor also. Adjuste the meds accordingly.

3. Keep venting here. It's ok. Our skins are quite thick. I don't think you will take any prizes for the craziest WS story. ok???

4. Love your babies. Hug them let them know dad loves them.

5. Get with your lawyer and let them know the WS plans. (I don't care if the OM is reading this......).

6. Let all know that the WS is trying to ruin your reputation by passing phony rumors about an bogus GF.

KNOW this: What the WS says today can change tomorrow. It can change in a minute. So don't make any life altering plans based on her babble.

7. Let the WS take her falls by herself.

8. Don't enable the A.

To the OM: You have a real winner here. Just see what she is doing to her family and know that one day, you may be the recipient of such acts of Ws'ness. Your relationship is based on deception, deceit and lying. Is this the best you can do? You have the chance of not getting involved. You have the opportunity to remove yourself from harms way. This family needs to deal with their ill family member without help from a stranger. They don't need your assistance. Do them and yourself a favor and move out of this situation. As much as the WS will cry for your help, that is NOT what she needs.

Toro, I am sorry your W is acting this way. I hope one day she comes back to her senses. Don't try to do that for her. It is something she must resolve herself. You can show the way but she must take the step.

take care Toro,

L.

TORO.

I'm irrelevant, but you and your family are not.

You've been given good advice in the last couple of posts, and I would suggest you consider taking it.

It is evident that this situation has taken a heavy emotional toll on you and I would like to suggest that you get yourself into a doctors office to get a subscription for anti-depressants. Your emotions are controlling your behavior just as much as they are controlling your WW's behavior, and I worry that you might take a course of action that you may later regret because of this. Remember that your children can not depend on their mother at this moment to look after their best interests, so it's up to you to do everything in your power to be the one emotionally functional adult that they can rely on. The anti-d's WILL definetely help you deal with this crisis.

Don't be ashamed for venting. Better you do it here among friends than with your loved ones at home.

Orchid: Thanks for the advice. I'm sure OM, if he reads this, won't care one bit. They are both only thinking of themselves and no one else. They cannot see the damage they are doing. I actually thought he was a stand up guy, OMG I just said that, but obviously if he doing this with a married woman, he's just a plain slimball IMHO. He actually told me that he hates people who lie. That he can't stand the lying. You're right, his whole relationship with my wife is based on lies and deceipt. Hope he can live with himself. I'm sure he can, just like WW, doesn't bother her at all. They deserve each other. B/c no one will want anything to do with them.

TooMuchCoffeeMan: I am on antidepressants, Effexor, I think they are helping. Thanks for your input, believe me I do value it immensely.
This is just very painful, and your right I am not handling it well. it is just hard when WW just throws this in my face and my kids. And, OM is willing to let her do that, just like it doesn't matter.

TORO

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: TORO ]</small>

TORO I'm glad that you are taking anti-d's and hope that you are taking them as the doctor prescribed them to you and not only when you feel the need to take them. Keep an eye out for any bad side effects and report to your doctor ASAP.

I agree with you about OM being a scumbag, that is why I said not to get too buddy buddy with him. Don't worry about him, in time he'll get whats coming to him and the beauty of that is that you won't have to lift a finger against him.

As far as your WW spreading lies about you having a GF, I would say that it might be time to spread the TRUTH about her and OM to all her friends and relatives, if they are not aware of it yet. The intention is not as a vindictive act against her but to prevent them from becoming ignorant enablers of her A.

I would also advise you to consult with an attorney not so much with the intention of filing for divorce, but to protect yourself in case your WW decides to divorce you and/or take the kids with her to live with OM. Right now in her selfish state of mind, you can not rule out anything or rely on her good intentions not to further twist the knife of betrayal se stabbed you in the back with. So it would be very wise for you to know what your rights are and be able to exercise them if you need to for you and your childrens sakes.

God bless you and your loved ones.

Thanks TooMuchCoffeeMan: I have been thinking about letting the truth out about what has happened between them. That day might just be coming closer. I was always against doing that b/c I didn't want to hurt my wife. But, I think she is telling everyone everything but the truth. Or, just a portion of the truth. I don't want to be vindictive but she is lying to her friends as well. She gives them just enough information so that they will "support" her, but they are supporting a lie. If this guy is so amazing and it is so the right thing to do then she should tell everyone. Funny how she hasn't done that yet. How special can he be if she doesn't want anyone to know about their relatinship. I think some of them know she is lying. They also see everything I have done for her and they have been very supportive.
They keep telling me that one day I will be happy again and she will be the one unhappy. That would be nice. Can't wait till that day.

TORO

Hehehehehe, OM told WW about this message board. WW called me to tell me she wasn't in a fog and that if things don't work out between her and OM, our marriage is still over, blah, blah, blah. I actually told her good, b/c I don't want you back. She didn't answer, I think she was pretty surprised. I think she thought I'd always be there in case things didn't work out with OM. Guess what, I'm not going to be the fall back guy. Sorry everyone, I'm passed the point of wanting this anymore. This isn't emotional rambling, I just really don't think I want her. And, if my hearts not in it with her, why keep pretending. I want to someday find someone who I can have the special relationship with. Someone I can share my whole life with. I have learned so much about what it takes to make a realtionship work. I have learned so much about giving of yourself unconditionally to another. I have learned so much about meeting another's needs. I think that my next relationship will be quite incredible. She will have everything my WW could of had. My WW will be the one who missed out. I can be the one who says WW isn't good enough for me now. I never had that with WW and I guess it just wasn't meant to be.
Thankyou everyone for all your help and input. I will keep posting here once in a while, and will always be lurking. You guys are the greatest.
Oh, and if OM is reading this AGAIN, good luck, your gonna need it.

TORO