Why would a BS want absolutely nothing to do with a FWS who ended the affair when d-day hit, and who only wants to get back together?

Punishment?

Hurt?

Anger?

Lack of love?

Lack of trust?

Desire to date other people?

Having an EA or PA of your own in retalliation?

Trying to save face?

Your mother told you not to talk to her/him?

Pride?

Other reasons?

Are there any BSs out there that cut off communication with a repentent WS? For how long? Why? What did it accomplish? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just trying to understand my H (the BS),

Jen (FWS)

Jen, I feel so bad for you... you've tried so hard to make amends.

Speaking for myself, I knew that if I even wanted a chance with WW, I'd have to behave like Plan A dictates, at least for a while (until I could stand no more and had to B).

Your H may be angry, vengeful, childish, ... ??? You probably know him better than anyone else... He's obviously not thinking about the M, but very much about himself. That kind of selfishness really does sound so similar to that of many, many WS's out there (not you, obviously... you're a "model" FWS from what I've seen). In that respect, maybe you need to treat him that way, and start thinking of things as if he were in an A - for the purposes of dealing with things.

What that means is having a plan, having goals, evaluating them, and moving yourself forward on your path of healing. As with all of us BS, there are no promises, but you can come out personally better and ready to carry on - with or without him.

Unlike many WS who will have to carry an infinitely heavy burden of knowing that their actions destroyed their M's, I hope you realize that yes, you made a mistake, but you're also doing everything you can to make amends. That carries a lot of weight, and should make you feel much, much better if things don't turn out for the M. In that way, I think your approach of "trying" so hard has been very good. Only you know how much more you can take. If you can afford it, you might want to consider talking with a Harley - they might be helpful and if your H would talk to one of them, could be VERY helpful.

Jen I know that this post doesn't answer your question but JR brought up a good point that your H is behaving like a WS that is refusing to give up his EA. And let's not beat around the bush, your H IS/HAS BEEN having an EA with at least two women. If you get a chance, please read the thread by cautious titled 'emotional affair', here's a shortcut:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=020529

<small>[ October 10, 2002, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Jen,

There are several reasons that this could be happening.

First, if he is involved in EA’s then he is definatley not totaling involved in your marriage… has one foot out the door already.

Is it: Punishment?, Hurt?, Anger?, Lack of love?, Lack of trust?, Desire to date other people?, Having an EA or PA of your own in retalliation?, Trying to save face?, Your mother told you not to talk to her/him?, Pride?, Other reasons?

When a person comes here to MB they may get the impression that a BS is supposed to Plan A and beg the WS to rebuild the marriage. That they are supposed to want recovery. The reality of it is that some BS just are done with the marriage when they discover an affair, it does not matter if the affair ends on D-day or later.

When I discovered my H’s affairs I was done. As far as I was concerned there was no marriage. The only reason we are still together is that I was too much in shock to leave (or rather kick him out) or a few weeks. It gave him time to Plan A me. I also wanted to know the truth, so I was diging up all the garbage on his affairs and making him face them one by one as he would not tell me anything and denied every one of them… for a while.. until I confronted him with them. I did eventually come around because he was so persistent about his Plan A. Say 3 months or so.

An affair, by civil and religious law, has broken the covenant of marriage. The BS is not obligated to take the WS back. A WS is lucky if the BS takes them back. I know this sounds harsh but it’s true.

What did it accomplish? It can save a person’s sanity.

His love bank was probably already depleted when he found out.

Not wanting to continue in a marriage after an affair is a BS’s choice. They are not obligated. It does not make the BS vengeful or childish. Maybe angry. Nor is it selfishness. When a person has an affair, they are risking that their BS will not take them back. They have accepted that risk.

You need to Plan A him if there is going to be any chance at all for your marriage to survive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> maybe you need to treat him that way, and start thinking of things as if he were in an A - for the purposes of dealing with things.

What that means is having a plan, having goals, evaluating them, and moving yourself forward on your path of healing. As with all of us BS, there are no promises, but you can come out personally better and ready to carry on - with or without him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this. I will continue on my "path of healing" and trying to become a better person, regardless of the outcome of our marriage.

TMCM: I will go and read the EA post when I get a little more time. Thanks. The only trick here is my H will never admit to being in an EA.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When a person comes here to MB they may get the impression that a BS is supposed to Plan A and beg the WS to rebuild the marriage. That they are supposed to want recovery. The reality of it is that some BS just are done with the marriage when they discover an affair, it does not matter if the affair ends on D-day or later.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really needed to hear that. You are so right. The majority of BSs on MB seem to be in a "Plan A and beg" position. It confuses the heck out of me that my H isn't in such a place. I know he simply has a "right" to leave. However, as a Christian, I am struggling with his refusal to find forgiveness in his heart, and realize the fact that although God makes provisions for divorce in the case of infidelity, God still hates divorce. If the wayward spouse seeks forgiveness and repents, the marriage should not be given up on.

Here's a demented thought: if I had continued the affair and had more of an attachment to OM, maybe my H would've been more like those BSs. It almost seems like the worse the situation, the more likely the BS is to work hard to try to get the WS to come back. Just a thought, not a steadfast belief.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not wanting to continue in a marriage after an affair is a BS’s choice. They are not obligated. It does not make the BS vengeful or childish. Maybe angry. Nor is it selfishness. When a person has an affair, they are risking that their BS will not take them back. They have accepted that risk. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It certainly feels like selfishness and vengefulness to me. I know what I was risking, but it's hard to get beyond seeing my H in that light. I know that he ultimately is very hurt and angry, but his current behaviour (refusal to allow ANY contact) is what makes me think he's being selfish and vengeful.

You mention that I need to Plan A him for there to be any chance of saving our marriage. Any attempts on my part to even contact him have not been responded to. I can't Plan A someone who won't allow me to be around them or speak to them......and if I continue to mail him letters and send him cards (I left him one letter when I moved out, sent him one card a couple weeks later, and then about another week later I sent him an email, all with no reply), I get the impression I am just making myself look like a desperate fool, and that I am annoying him because he wanted to be left alone. HOW CAN I POSSIBLY PLAN A HIM??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Jen

Jen,

Please don’t take what I say here as a harsh attack, I’m only trying to give you the perspective of one BS, mine. And if your H was also having affairs, as I believe someone said that certainly changes things some. What is the deal with that.. Did your H have one or more affairs? If so was it before, during or after yours?

Your d-day was in March and you moved out in August. Whose idea was it for you to move out?

as a Christian, I am struggling with his refusal to find forgiveness in his heart, and realize the fact that although God makes provisions for divorce in the case of infidelity, God still hates divorce. If the wayward spouse seeks forgiveness and repents, the marriage should not be given up on.
I am sure that your husband is struggling with the idea of forgiving you too. But it has to be on his time line. Forgiveness cannot be demanded. It is given by the forgiver. There is a statistic I saw about 15 years ago that is seldom talked about here on MB. I think that’s because with societal changes men are changing. It said that in marriages where the man cheats, 98% recover. In the marriages where the woman cheat, only 2% recover. If you will notice most of the BS’s here trying to recover their marriages are women. I do believe that over the years things have changed, more men today want to recover their marriages after infidelity. But some men still hang on to the old beliefs…. Even younger men.
Yes God hates divorce. But that does not mean that He expects BS’s to categorically take WS’s back. He hates the breaking of the marital covenant. You broke your marital covenant. You husband did not. God hates what you did, not what your husband is doing in not wanting to recover your marriage. You are the one who is causing the divorce, not your husband.
Here's a demented thought: if I had continued the affair and had more of an attachment to OM, maybe my H would've been more like those BSs. It almost seems like the worse the situation; the more likely the BS is to work hard to try to get the WS to come back. Just a thought, not a steadfast belief.
Yep, that’s a demented thought. Lol We all have them from time to time. Do remember that the majority of people here on MB who stay very long are the worse cases. There are thousands of cases that resolve them selves fairly quickly and they either never post here or they move on quickly. I am on of the view success cases that stays here to post. And there was a time earlier this year when I just about stopped posting because it was too painful to read all the stories… too big a trigger. And because I was having bigger problems with our children. What you see here on MB is not a good representation of the couples struggling with infidelity.. it’s a group of some very hard cases.
Sure it feels like he is selfish and vengeful. Selfishness is not always bad, it can be a self protection mechanism. He could very well be vengeful too. That is his cross to carry. I know it’s hard for you to live with the natural consequences of you actions. I feel very deeply for you. Today people tend to down play sins as though they are not really all that bad. We should all just hug and make up. But there is a reason they are sins. They cause such deep pain that many people never get over them.
What is his relationship like with his best friend today? He was hurt by and lost both of the people he cared the most about. That’s hard.
Have you asked your husband for forgiveness? What compensation did you offer him to make up for your infidelity.. (See Harley’s article on this web site on forgiveness)?
If your husband refuses to have any contact with you, all you can do right now is work on yourself until the day he decides to let you have contact again. If you are still around at that time, you will be in a state where you can plan A him.

The one thing I think you can do at this time is to send him a Plan A letter asking for his forgiveness and telling him what you want. Beyond that, time may help.

I wish I had something more cheerful to say here. The only real cheer is for you to love yourself, learn to forgive

Then don't Plan A him...atleast not in the "showering with love" sense. Don't leave cards and letters, don't call and check on him...just give him his space. With you gone he'll have time to work through his anger and rage. He'll either face it or turn to others. As you've said, he's already having EA's...well...he might just find himself feeling and thinking more (possibly even going further than that).

It might be what it takes for him to realize how you got where you were. It happend somewhat like that for H and I. After H and I seperated he got online and started chatting with people. It wasn't long and he was having an EA with someone. I caught him at it and he realized how he'd fallen in to the same trap I did. When you're lonely and in need of people...it's pretty easy for it to get out of hand. I think that realization allowed him to understand my side of things better and he was more able to forgive.

Also, the fact that the A was with his BF makes it hurt all the more. If they were long time friends...he will have a harder time working through the double betrayal. He can...but that's not to say he will.

Anyway, for now I would give him his space. If he does contact you or there is contact...put on your best Plan A. With your absense for a while, he may come to realize what you did bring to his life and miss you. Maybe that will help motivate him to let go of some of the anger and seek solutions.

I'm sure it's a combination of things. I am sorry for your pain. You need to remember it was a double betrayal for him as it was his friend also. That really does more than double the pain. I've been there, it's not pretty. My friendship was never resolved so there is a piece of my heart that is still broken and always will be.

For men I also think pride enters in. For me, the breaking of his wedding vows, compounded by the years of lies, was almost enough to make me give up. But I'm stubborn and I didn't give up.

I hope that things will work out for you. If they don't, he may feel justified because the vows were broken.

Jen,

Again, as the others I am not trying to be harsh with you. But, one thing you seem to be missing. People who have decided that the A is too much for them to deal with don't come to MB or if they do, they read a bit and leave.

Your H may have forgiven you, but forgiveness doesn't mean he wants to be married any longer. I may be trying to punish you, he may be trying a lot of things, but one thing for sure is that he is trying to get over the pain of being cheated on with his BF.

The sad fact is that he will never really be able to look BF in the face again, and he may not be able to do that with you either.

I have no idea what your H was like before the A, why you had the A (although I think I have read every post you have made, old age I think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ), but I will bet he is totally clueless as to why both you and BF would betray him. I realize he was also aware of several encounters between you two, suggesting that he won't or isn't handling this as most might.

Time and patience is really all you can do Jen. And work on understanding why you would have done this to a man you loved. The only thing that you have control of is how much you learn from this experience and whether it becomes something that makes you a better person than you are, or a bitter person. Sadly, that is the truth of it. You only have control of what you do and learn, little else.

Hope something I said helps.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It certainly feels like selfishness and vengefulness to me. I know what I was risking, but it's hard to get beyond seeing my H in that light. I know that he ultimately is very hurt and angry, but his current behaviour (refusal to allow ANY contact) is what makes me think he's being selfish and vengeful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen,

Being a BS/Male, let me throw this at you. I may be off base here, but in trying to think of my own sitch, I have come up with this...

I really think there is a proverbial "point of no return". Now I am not saying this to offend or scare you in any way. Just trying to be honest in my way of thinking.

There are certain instances in which sometimes it is too late. Imagine going to the seashore and diving off cliffs. When you get the courage up to jump, and do, it is too late as you are falling to change your mind. Or...taking off down the runway in a plane. After you are up to speed, it is too late to change your mind.

Now mind you, that isn't to say that one can't return to where they were. I can return back to the top of the cliff. But...it is a longer, harder journey than the trip down. I can return back to the runway I was on. But...the journey I chose is going to run its course before I do.

Now to the statement that I highlighted in bold:

I can relate to the no contact of any kind. I have accepted the fact that my marriage is not to be. My WW has done severe damage since her A. I had truly believed that I could live with the A. But...couple that with what she has done since, and I now know that our marriaqe is over. You see...I have reached the point of no return.

Still, ANY contact sets me back. I cannot erase 14 years of feelings in my mind. Contact of any kind causes mass hysteria in my conscious and subconcious mind. I tend to see the positive points in contact, and that is too hard to handle.

As a matter of fact, I have had to ask everyone that may see or talk to my WW to NOT disclose to me ANY conversation that they may have with her. It is next to impossible to see anything other than my "loving" WW through a third party. That, I do not need.

So you see, even when we have decided to "move on", I truly do not think that our love banks are necessarily down to zero. I don't believe that they ever will reach zero, especially when there are GOOD memories that have been lived. However, our LB$ are low enough to move on, but we know that we have to KEEP them low enough to do it.

We struggle with that daily. I think we reach a point in which to let our emotions rise again, especially with a little fear factored in, that we sense our "struggle" being wasted.

We men have a hard time "losing" what we worked hard to obtain.

I'm not saying that recovery is impossible for you, but am saying that due to certain dynamics, it may be a tough row to hoe.

My 2cents

HCII

For HCII.........

Sorry to jump in on your thread but I wanted to address HCii and say thanks.

Your input into this situation has given me some things to think about in my own quest for healing. Thanks for the honesty.

My question to you would be:

"What type of actions would it take from your WW to reach that part of you that wants to forgive her?"

Okay folks, prepare for the world's longest post.....but I wanted to reply to so many of the very provocative statements and questions you all posted!

Zorweb:

What is the deal with that.. Did your H have one or more affairs? If so was it before, during or after yours? No, he didn’t have any affairs. He has got two female coworkers who are like best friends to him though. MB philosophy would seem to say that these are EAs.

Your d-day was in March and you moved out in August. Whose idea was it for you to move out? To answer this, I need to explain the events leading up to the decision for me to move out….

June – after d-day, we lived in separate bedrooms on separate floors. He avoided me at all costs, and demanded complete privacy. I wasn’t allowed to know what he was doing, where he was going, or who he was with.

About two weeks into this, I found out he had a key to one of his female friend’s apartments. This led to a major blow-up. He ended up moving in with her for two weeks. She lives in a one bedroom apt. I have trouble believing they slept in separate rooms. He says he slept in her bed and she slept on the couch. I am not sure I believe this. Still, what was he doing in her bed??

Then after a couple weeks, he suddenly came home, but we continued living on separate floors. He continued to avoid me and demand his privacy.

In July, we went on separate vacations, for about 3 weeks.

At the beginning of Aug., once we were both home, my H said he wanted to try being together again, and moved back up into our bedroom. He still refused to spend daytime hours doing anything with me, but wanted to sleep in the same bed and have sex with me. This was the best he could do for now he said. I still wasn’t allowed to know where he went, what he did, or with who.

Then my in-laws found out about the fact that my infidelity was more than a ONS I confessed to (my H’s original lie to them), and that it went on for 3 weeks and I lied about it. They told him to leave me. So then, my H wanted me to move out. He said he couldn’t be with me if his parents didn’t approve. This was decided in the first week of Aug. I decided I might as well move out. I wasn’t comfortable with being used for sex and nothing more. It hurt too much to watch him avoid me at all costs. Also, if we end up divorced, he can have the house, I don’t want a home full of broken dreams. So I foolishly moved out thinking it would help my sanity anyway. We agreed to try 3 months apart, and then talk again (with my H’s attitude being that it was very unlikely we’d work things out, but he wouldn’t completely eliminate that possibility – let’s see how we feel in 3 months we said). In the meantime, we wrote up a separation agreement, and I was told to take all of my stuff when I moved out on Aug. 24th.

Sorry for the long answer, but I figure it was necessary for you to make sense of things!

I realize I cannot demand forgiveness, and it has to come with time. I just struggle with his inability to forgive me.

It said that in marriages where the man cheats, 98% recover. In the marriages where the woman cheat, only 2% recover. Interesting. I don’t like that statistic. I guess women are simply more forgiving by nature?

Yes God hates divorce. But that does not mean that He expects BS’s to categorically take WS’s back. He hates the breaking of the marital covenant. You broke your marital covenant. You husband did not. God hates what you did, not what your husband is doing in not wanting to recover your marriage. You are the one who is causing the divorce, not your husband.
Point taken. I am 100% at fault. I guess I was just twisting the scriptures to try to have some hope. I guess I don’t deserve my H’s love anymore.

What is his relationship like with his best friend today? He was hurt by and lost both of the people he cared the most about. That’s hard. To the best of my knowledge, they haven’t spoken since the week before d-day. Then again, I’m not exactly in contact with either one of them, so who knows. My H wants nothing to do with him. They were friends for 4 or 5 years roughly.

Have you asked your husband for forgiveness? What compensation did you offer him to make up for your infidelity.. Yes, I have asked for his forgiveness, verbally and in writing, several times. I offered to do whatever he asks in order to make up for it, and to do whatever it takes to be the wife that he deserves.

I’ll have to look up Harley’s article on forgiveness again. I haven’t read it for quite a while.
The one thing I think you can do at this time is to send him a Plan A letter asking for his forgiveness and telling him what you want. Beyond that, time may help. I am hesitant to do that for fear of looking desperate, making him feel like I am pestering him when we agreed to time apart, and like I want to continue to be his doormat. I keep thinking of what my H always used to say, “You always want what you can’t have.” I wonder if not reaching out to him at all might give me a better shot – “absence makes the heart grow fonder”. But I am very torn over this one. I will have to think about it.

JustLearning:
I have no idea what your H was like before the A, why you had the A (although I think I have read every post you have made, old age I think , but I will bet he is totally clueless as to why both you and BF would betray him. I realize he was also aware of several encounters between you two, suggesting that he won't or isn't handling this as most might.
Here’s a post I made recently that summarizes all the reasons why I think the affair may have happened: why it happened
But, I do realize that what it really boils down to is my inability to be morally strong enough and generally wise enough to have not broken my vows.

For the record, there were TWO, only TWO encounters between me and his BF, not several.

Time and patience is really all you can do Jen. And work on understanding why you would have done this to a man you loved. The only thing that you have control of is how much you learn from this experience and whether it becomes something that makes you a better person than you are, or a bitter person. Sadly, that is the truth of it. You only have control of what you do and learn, little else. I guess you are right. I hate having to accept it, but I know you are right.

hcii:

I can relate to the no contact of any kind. I have accepted the fact that my marriage is not to be. My WW has done severe damage since her A. I had truly believed that I could live with the A. But...couple that with what she has done since, and I now know that our marriaqe is over. You see...I have reached the point of no return. What has she done since? I suppose one thing in my favour is that I haven’t done anything since d-day to make things worse other than have a couple nasty LB filled arguments early on. After that I went to “little miss sweetness and kindness” plan A mode.

Still, ANY contact sets me back. I cannot erase 14 years of feelings in my mind. Contact of any kind causes mass hysteria in my conscious and subconcious mind. I tend to see the positive points in contact, and that is too hard to handle. So perhaps that is why he wants to maintain absolutely no contact with me. He is afraid that if he sees me his heart will override what his head, and his parents, are telling him to do?

So you see, even when we have decided to "move on", I truly do not think that our love banks are necessarily down to zero. I don't believe that they ever will reach zero, especially when there are GOOD memories that have been lived. However, our LB$ are low enough to move on, but we know that we have to KEEP them low enough to do it. This statement gives me hope actually……

All in all, I realize that my H has a right to leave me after what I did to him. He has a right to be angry. I was hoping to learn a little more about why he feels that absolutely no contact is so necessary. I think hcii's post really gave me some insight. I'd still gladly take any more input anyone wants to give.

All I can do right now is work on me and learning about what I need to do differently if we get back together so I can be a better wife, to my H, or to someone else down the road.

Thanks to anyone who read this far. It must've taken you ages!

Jen

Jen:

Interesting 2uestion, perhaps. But I don't think it pertains 2 you. You were "barely" the WS in this sitch. Your H IS a WS NOW, by choice, premeditated, the whole twenty seven feet.

you have grown so much in the past several months on this 4um. My hat is off 2 you. Your H is unlikely 2 have grown at all while you've been apart, because he's having his EA, now justified in his twisted mind because of what he allowed YOU 2 do (yes, I did say allowed, and I mean it, and still suspect he may have even set you up).

I predict you will continue 2 grow. Your H may eventually grow out of his silly behavior, 2. I certainly hope he does. In either case, you will be a better person for your experiences and will reward him or your next H with what you've learned.

all my best,

2long:

Thanks, in the midst of all the posts on this thread and others lately, that make me really focus on my failings, I forgot for a while about how my H could've stopped things, both times. I even feel like his behaviour with the 2 females is almost justified at times. Demented I guess.

This is all such a mess. I still intend to try to save our marriage, but today I feel like I am more likely to end up alone.

Check out the post I made at the end of this depressing thread, it explains why I feel that way: makes me feel like not bothering

Sigh,

Jen

PS: I am happy to see your comments at the bottom of your sign. line - stuff's getting way better? Good for you. You deserve it!

<small>[ October 10, 2002, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said he couldn’t be with me if his parents didn’t approve. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen,

My opinion on this? MAJOR cop-out. If HE was sure, then his parents approval would be of no significance.

I don't think that he can tell you that he can't be with you because HE doesn't want to. So, he says this.

THEN....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What has she done since? I suppose one thing in my favour is that I haven’t done anything since d-day to make things worse other than have a couple nasty LB filled arguments early on. After that I went to “little miss sweetness and kindness” plan A mode. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, my situation is not at all like yours. I can honestly say that if my WW had the attitude that you say that you have, we WOULD be attempting recovery now.

My WW initially walked out with the reason being that she was having second-thoughts about wanting to remain M'ed. She initially told me that there was no one else, and that she felt like she had married too young to really enjoy things that she felt that she had missed. I knew that there HAD to be more to it than that. I found evidence 3 days later, confronted her, she confessed. Here is when it started to get sticky....

She first maintained it was a one-night stand. I had the goods when I FIRST confronted her, and really didn't tell her how much I knew. After a little prodding and showing part of my hand, she then said it had been going on about 3 months.

Then, in this discussion at her parent's house where she was staying, that is when her ENTIRE family dropped the bomb on me that they HAD KNOWN THE ENTIRE TIME! One of them made a comment that then told me that 3 months was a lie. Well...then she upped that to 6 months. To make a long story short, next it was a year, then 2 years, now over 2 years.

So...reason #1 -- I STILL do not think she has told the entire truth.

Reason #2 -- We had no children. She basically ended our relationship then and there. Dropped me like a hot rock. I had a PI on her at the time and she was with OM every day, and she could care less if I took another breath.

Reason #3 -- She came here a couple of months after filing for DV, acting as though she wanted to "maybe" work this out. After those couple of nights, POOF! Never saw her again for over a month.

Reason #4 -- She has NEVER told me that she was sorry for hurting me. She has said everything generically. Such as, it's wrong to have an affair, she shouldn't have had an A with a married man and hurt his wife and child, but she has never, I repeat, never, apologized to me.

Reason #5 -- Just 2 weeks after her and OM broke up because she found out that OM's W was pregnant, she moved in with OM #2! The funny coincidence about OM #2 is that when I had asked her months before what OM #1 looked like, she described exactly OM #2!(I didn't know of an OM #2 at that time). OM # 1 and OM #2 do not look ANYTHING alike...Short vs. Tall, muscular v. heavy, etc.....

Reason #6 -- After she filed for Dv, she tried everything in the book to hurt me. Why I will never know. Tried to have me removed from the marital home by lying and saying that she inherited it. Threatened to take me to court to keep MY grandmother's hand-made quilts. She actually became sort of evil.

I can honestly say that I NEVER became angry with her at all, in her presence. I have experienced what it is like to be so hurt, that anger is an emotion that could not exist.

Reason #7 -- MY BIGGEST REASON -- Fear. Simple as that. For her to conduct an A for over 2 years, and me not having the SLIGHTEST idea, scares the h3ll out of me.

I know that she is that darned good at lying.

Sorry about the length, but...you asked.

Anyway...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So perhaps that is why he wants to maintain absolutely no contact with me. He is afraid that if he sees me his heart will override what his head, and his parents, are telling him to do? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very possible, if not probable. But...personally, I would not worry about the parents that much. He knows, you know, and I know that his parents will accept ANY choice he makes. Including you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This statement gives me hope actually…… </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen, you can't turn off years of feelings like a light switch. There is hope. Like I said, your situation is different than mine. Very different.

HCII

P.S. Kily, I'll post a new topic to you.

Jen,

You made one comment that I strongly feel I must address. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You said we are focusing you on your failings. That was not the intent of my reply and I am pretty certain it wasn't the intent of the posts to this thread. This is hard to explain, but when I read your posts I see a hurt individual trying to make things better. What I feel about you and your character is really separate from your A. I don't see you as someone bad or evil, just someone that made a mistake and is doing her best to fix it.

I know you are sensitive, but please understand most here can a do separate a bad action from a good person. It is what your H will have to do, and it is what you will have to do if you two get the opportunity to reunite.

So please don't be down or defensive, these posts are not attacks on you. THey are honest, and they are obviously touching on sensitve subjects, but please separate your self and understand most every one would love to see you succeed in your quest.

God Bless,

JL

JL posted:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said we are focusing you on your failings. That was not the intent of my reply and I am pretty certain it wasn't the intent of the posts to this thread. This is hard to explain, but when I read your posts I see a hurt individual trying to make things better. What I feel about you and your character is really separate from your A. I don't see you as someone bad or evil, just someone that made a mistake and is doing her best to fix it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen,

Remember this. JL is very much correct.

Think about it....How could you be a bad person, knowing that I wish my WW was posting exactly what you are? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HCII

I was also not intending to focus on you failings. But rather help you put things in perspective. I was thinking about you at work all day (actually I was reading along here but could not post from work. Then got home late… stupid Balloon Fiesta traffic.. took and hour to go 1 mile. Grrr )

While it is important for you to know the reality of where you stand, it’s also important for you to forgive yourself. I too see you as a good person trying to find your way. So do many here. That is why we spend our time with you.

While, as I said earlier, the WS can not expect the BS to take them back I do believe that in many cases it’s wise for the BS to give the WS a chance, and to forgive them. What I finally realized about my FWS is that if I ended my marriage the pain of his affairs would probably have died earlier, but I would have missed him for the rest of my life. If I stayed with him, the pain of recovery would be hard to deal with but in the end I’d still have the man I loved and we’d could go on to have many happy years together. So I decided to give him another chance. I could always leave him later if he did not honor our marriage in the future. So far he’s been a model FWS and a loving husband. I married for better or worst, sickness and health. I feel that his affairs were based on a sickness (sever depression) and it certainly was one of the worst things that could happen to us. I will not go through this again. But it felt I had to give him this one chance to prove that he is indeed the wonderful man I thought I’d married. Looks like he is.

We all do some pretty stupid things some times. If forgiveness were never given where would we be?

As Laura Slessinger says, beat yourself up for 30 seconds, then get on with being a better person.

And that’s exactly what you are doing… getting on with being a better person.

[b]“I don’t want to live the rest of my life with a man who can’t forgive me, who might always throw it in my face, and always having to work to make it up to him.”[b]

That’s a quote from an old post of yours. Your right, you should never have to live like that. The WS has to earn back their trust. You will see plenty of posts around here from BS’s asking how can I trust my WS again? Well, what many BS fail to realize is that it goes both ways. They have to earn the WS’s trust too. A WS is in a very vulnerable place. If the BS is constantly punishing the WS and using the confidences against them, the WS will learn to not trust the BS.

You have every right to ask your H to work on recovering your marriage. You have every right to ask him to forgive you. And you have every right to not be harassed by him. Two wrongs do not make a right. There is a place in the SAA book where Dr. Harley responds to a woman whose husband continually punishes her for her affair. He told her to tell her husband that she knows she did something wrong, she is sorry for it. But if he wants to be married to her he will have to stop punishing her for it.

If you were to write your husband a Plan A letter, what would you say in it?

Sorry for being so hypersensitive. I appreciate all of your comments. I will have to think about what would go into a Plan A letter.

I won't type much as I woke up this morning with flu like symtpoms and have to keep running to the bathroom......BLECCHHH!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Also, just to let you know, I am going away for the long weekend for a family funeral, etc. So I will post again Tuesday probably.

Thanks for your support folks. I appreciate it.

Jen

Have a good weekend, Jen! And get better BEFORE the weekend, so you can enjoy it fully! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />